those pics make me feel sick...

They are just as deadly no matter what the colour.

"Those parents lost little kids. It's bad enough I lost my 20 year old. I had 20 years with my son," he screamed through tears. "That's all I'll ever have. Those people lost their little 6- and 7-year-olds. How do you think they feel? And who's talking to them now? Who's doing anything for them now?"

 - Richard Martinez

I lost my son early, from something that nobody could have stopped, and hearing this just about tore me apart. I can't imagine my rage if someone did this to him and it could have been stopped.

Understood chansen. The pain anger frustration would be unbearable

That's crazier than the "Hello Kitty" vibrator I saw one time (online).

At least the "Hello, Kitty" vibe (anyone else detect a really sly groaner in that or do I just have a dirty mind?) doesn't land people in the morgue.

Normally.

If used according to package directions.

Yeah. That 's enough on that subject.

Mendalla

*giggle*

yeah, careful folks, those images are actually radioactive, they'll give you AIDS just by viewing them and also corrupt your children

i've seen those vibrators in rl

ya can't stop humans fooling around with things

they even have vibrators with wi-fi...lovin to the tunes of steely dan indeed :3

*rim shot*

Sadly, I don't think locking up guns, no matter how pretty they might be, will stop random violence like this in the USA.

.
Mental health issues, young men feeling isolated or whatever the cause, I don't think can be protected against.

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If we lock up people for their potential actions then we are like that movie With Tom Cruuise, I totally forget the name . Something day I think

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And as tragic as this was, three of the victims were killed with knives not guns.
.

And sadly, people killed in these mass shootings are a small fraction of the numbers of people killed annually in the USA

.
When ever I hear on the news about some random violence in another country and 25 dead or what ever the numbers, I am forever grateful that I live in Canada. And the total dead in the USA annually is always a shock to me.
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When toronto had , what we called the summer of the guns, I think there were 90ish dead that year. Not thousands

This thread started with the Middletown massacre 2 years ago. Everything that was said could be said again now after the latest mass shooting in California.  Unfortunately life is happening and I've got to get on.

Good luck America.

...or Canada.  Prayers for Moncton.........

At least we live in Canada, where these things are far more abnormal. Cold comfort for those in Moncton, I know.

The sad thing is that the gun rights folks in the US will now say - "look at Canada. They have gun control and this happened in Moncton so gun control is useless." The difference of course is that this is very much the exception in Canada and it still shocks Canadians to the core of our being when it happens. In the US shootings have become almost routine and I suspect few people are shocked by them anymore.

More correctly, Steven, they get shocked by multiple shootings. Individuals no longer count. One grieving mother? A statistic and a mention on local news. Ten grieving mothers? CNN devotes two weeks to the coverage.

That ten new mothers (or whatever the statistic is) grieve every day of of those two weeks, just in different cities, gets overlooked. People want the sensational. They want their shootings in groups. Individuals don't count. They just add up.

Maybe we need to lock up the gun factories. For good.

i think a big thing is that which is reported by news is 'news', what isn't reported by news 'isn't'

there are horrors, deaths, sicknesses that we either don't know of or get used to or we treat differently because of our wonky risk assessmenting

like the 4,227 car fatalities in Canada in 2010...the grieving families that must have produced...not to mention the injuries & serious injuries...why didn't 'the media' report that on national news?

our neurologies tend to focus on the immediate and outliers and visceral -- we ignore what is ever present (like car fatalities and sports injuries) and worry aboot things like September 11 and cryptosporidia in drinking water.

individuals don't count. they just add up

I've been following Ukraine and thinking it all looked too familiar- just regular folks in regular towns- except that there were guys walking around with big guns and scenes of people cheering them on and posing for photos with them- and that made my stomach turn as much as this does- when violence happens here- and what a sick world it is when we become desensitized to it just because it's happening somewhere else- because a lot of people view news the same way as they do reality TV. We need focus on helping individuals, caring for youth. TV news needs to be more educational and less sensational. People need to stop manufacturing weapons and look at how we can care more so the seeds of violence do not grow. Militaries need to be transformed into humanitarian armies who do things like this, so this is what kids grow up seeing and copying, aspiring to, and militant violence becomes a thing of the past:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/balkans-floods-baby-airli...

Those are my general thoughts. It makes me feel sick to my stomach but we need to talk about it anyway. The media and entertainment people watch does not help. I am not for censorship but for education. More education needs to be presented in the media than sensationalized news for ratings and things like video games to make a buck. People like Michael Moore made a valiant effort at warning and educating people with documentaries like Bowling for Columbine, about youth and gun violence. A young isolated guy sees these things on the news, plays his video games- and somewhere along the line he becomes desensitized. And if he feels uncared for- I really do think the potential for serious mental illness is more likely to manifest. More love, more education, not more police states to fix this cancer. Reammend the second amnendment someday to "people have the responsibilty to bear plowshares." That's how the US could really lead the collective social consciousness. No more weapons of any kind! Don't just lock them up- stop making them!

Guns are used for shooting food, which is a source of food for many.

those guns are also safer, more reliable & easier to learn and use than the older methods (bow & arrow, knife, herding, wrasslin, flint, etc)

Another campus shooting ~ this time in Seattle.  I do not understand how the NRA, with a membership of 4.3 million, can control the US senate/congress, which is supposed to represent 317 million US citizens.  Senate rejected a bill that would have simply put stricter and mandatory background checks, before the purchase of a gun, in place.

I would love to see one of the public faces of the NRA (maybe JamesEarl Jones) step up to the plate and demand stricter laws.  Or the US should tax the crap out of guns, with all tax funds going to mental health services.

yeah!

i wonder, if it was found out beyond a reasonable doubt that it was America's extreme religiosity that was leading to these deaths, if many religious people would be able to speak out against it, or still try to find excuses?

(then again, the US is a police state right now

the ndaa was successfully stopped for a few moments, then it was reinstated by Smiler's shock troops...

we're living in a Verhoeven film...)

Kimmio - I'm not an aboriginal hunter, nor was my father, but the deer he shot most years put meat on our table for much of the winter.  I know that was a couple of generations ago, but I think it still holds true in parts of Canada.  

And, if the record, I'm for much stricter gun laws.  

It holds true in many areas. I know a teenager who had never eaten beef until they had dinner at someone who had recently moved into the area.

Venison, duck, bear, wild turkey -- relatively free meat.

Reducing guns reduces deaths (from Huffpost):
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5447059/

how does one reduce a gun?  melt it?  use a shrink ray?  force it to go on a diet?  not let people who are terrified of guns hear, see, perceive a gun so they don't die from an apopletic fit/from the inherent evil radiation of the gun?  genetically engineer humans so they don't die ever from a gun?  make smart guns that only their designated owners can use?  educate people to not be so terrified of guns?  stop the insanity dancercize?

a web site that i like to use for firearm statistics around the world (besides starting with wikipedia, which is always a good place to start the hypertext connexions searching) is http://www.gunpolicy.org/

there you can search by region and by country

personally, i think Canada should probably invade (can you imagine that? "oh excuse me for the bother, but, if you don't mind, you shouldn't be shooting--BANG! err, that wasn't very polite of you to shoot me --BANG! so sorry for the intrusion DIES") & pacify the NWT & Nunavut, they shouldn't be allowed to murder each other in such vast numbers...it isn't Canadian. pip :3

I think one of the biggest differences, beyond having tighter gun control, is that Canadians just seem to view guns differently from Americans.  

I know a lot of people who own guns and they use them either for hunting or for target shooting.  They unload them and lock them up when they aren't in use with trigger locks and in safes or big lockers and they keep the ammunition separate from the guns.  When they transport their guns, they have them locked in the trunk of their cars, still unloaded.  They follow safety procedures for handling, cleaning and using their guns.  Most importantly, they don't tend to think of the guns in terms of protection from other people.  

In the US, a whole lot of people buy guns for the purpose of self-protection, thus already thinking that shooting another human being is an option.  They keep them loaded in the glove compartment or bed side table or carry them on their bodies when they go out.  It's not only easier to buy a gun, but it's also easier for just about anybody to pick one up, including little kids or angry/depressed teenagers.  

I have no opposition to guns existing or with people using them for hunting or for target shooting, but it's terrifying how cavalier Americans seem to be about storing their guns.  We lock up our medications and have child proof caps on them, we lock up our cleaning products, we have things to keep little kids from opening up drawers with sharp knives in them.  It's a basic responsibility to keep kids safe from the things that can hurt them.  That needs to include guns.

"the mind adapts and converts to its own purposes the obstacle to our acting

the impediment to action advances action

what stands in the way becomes the way"

-- marcus aurelius

...and with one day left in the school year - its happened again ~ Oregon.  I hope the murders of these young people weigh heavily on the conscience and dreams of each member of the US senate and NRA.....

Hi inukshuk,

Meanwhile in Vancouver . . .3 have been shot, none fatally.

The US Senate and the NRA see your smugness and raise you a "how will you sleep tonight?"

Grace and peace to you.

John

There was another random shooting- near Science World in Vancouver this morning. He shot a bike shop owner- edit: the shop owner was at a busy Starbucks. They caught the guy, who fled on bike, but apparently large parts of the area were blocked off. The person shot is stable, in hospital. A police car was shot at. Add: police officer was injured. It's a busy, upscale downtown neighbourhood with lots of businesses and people walking around. I'm feeling a little anxious. But not too far from there is Chinatown which is part of the downtown eastside where you hear of more drug related violence. It just doesn't tend to spill over across the east-west dividing line. Drugs and severe mental illness are a problem in the DTES so I don't know if it's related to that or if there was some other motive. It just happened a couple of hours ago.

It was related to a dispute with an ex-employee:
http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/index.html

Deleted. Duplicate added to below.

Sounds like maybe this wasn't 'random'- but still random for those of us who live here. Not a place or time you'd expect a shooting to happen. It's usually late at night or in Surrey or gang related. This was in a nice leisurely touristy business and residential area. I live and work not very far away. Too close- I feel anxious reading about this. For some reason, less so when I hear of stuff like this being gang or drug related or at nightclubs because I stay away from those places and don't walk alone late at night- but this was at a prime time of day in a familiar area!

Sorry to hog this thread. Opened CBC today and feeling a little anxious to see "Vancouver shooting" right next to news about Moncton. Not that it's all that uncommon here, unfortunately it's too common, just that it's an unusual place and time to happen.


I suppose for people who hunt for food- they need hunting guns. I never grew up around them but my dad did- on the prairies and we have a relative who was a game hunter. I was never around hunting rifles but I have eaten wild game he shot. I don't like it- would rather have beef from the store- even though it's probably less healthy. I just can't understand the mentality of enjoying sport hunting. And even less, do I understand someone wanting a gun for protection. It makes society less safe. More accidents and irrational decisions harm more people. We only need to look South to see that- and the fewer regs we have here the more dangerous. They should be limited to law enforcement and even then should be non-lethal, like stun guns/ tasers used only in dangerous situations like today. Focus law enforcement on gangs and black market sales of guns. Focus mental health- all health- and education resources on helping people be physically and mentally healthy. We need more resources put into the well rounded health of society not just protection of it.

We lock up dangerous goods from kids, we limit or ban unsafe products, we enforce regulations to make sure products we import and export are safe. Guns are unsafe products- their purpose is to injure and kill. I think handguns and non- hunting related guns should not even be produced and I don't understand needing one for protection. I think that makes people less safe. I don't want us to turn into the US. The police need to have means to keep us safe but I don't want to live in an overly armed police state either. It scares me.

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/5481376/?ir=Canada

In this they interview someone from Real Housewives of Vancouver because someone from that show was shot in east Van the other night and it was apparently gang related- the person she was with was gang related? I don't know how it relates to this incident except a neighbour interviewed was also from the show? I don't think there's a direct connection. The other article says it had to do with a dispute between the bike shop owner and ex-employee.

Freaks me out. I didn't even want to bus/ walk to work today. I know the Starbucks. I've been there- sat outside. I don't know if it's because of Moncton I feel more scared today. The cluster of shootings in the news. Serious incidents do happen here sometimes. It's a big urban city but generally you know where's safer to go when.

I'm happy that there happened to be cops there, having a coffee, and they were able to respond quickly- they borrowed a couple of bikes even! They are always nearby. I guess what scares me is, if there is an increase in these events (they may just be happening in a cluster- no worse than them happening more far apart just more anxiety provoking to hear about all at once)- what scares me is that if we don't do something about guns, keep very strict gun control, that we end up with a police state in response. I don't think that's a healthy response to the fear - and I fear that increasingly that's what will happen. You hear it in the rhetoric. And it's what the US has turned into. Education and community caring for people is the best defense, prevention, along with tight controls on access and on organized crime/ black market sales. People using guns, gun owners- lawful or not, sane or not, sober or not- kill people- either by accident or on purpose- they still kill people- far more people than what happens without them. We need to care about people and do away with guns. Today, a cop, a regular neighbour and the shooter were all hurt by a gun. Nobody died, but that's 3 too many human beings hurt by a gun, IMO.

One more question comes to mind- why don't police use tranquilizer guns instead of bullets or tazers- which can kill people? The kind used by rangers to subdue but not kill wild animals encroaching on populated areas? Something with a fast acting substance. That way maybe there'd less danger to human bystanders. It seems more humane to me than guns with bullets. The reason I think we need to be humane is because criminal as they might be- they are still humans, and we don't know their state of mind- but are more or less behaving like wild animals. Is that possible? Is it too idealist?

I can picture the cop now.

He is called to a 911 call, person attacking another....nanosecond to respond.

Pulls tranquilizer gun, estimates size/weight of person, and then....decides nope, going to go for taser....then...realizes won't work

goes for gun

by then, person is dead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tranquillizer_gun

*giggles at picture of Putin w/tranq gun on the wiki page*

So, then maybe it's not possible. Just putting the question out there because, hey, the possibility of innocent bystanders getting caught in the crossfire of random shoot outs on regular mornings in busy areas is a little disconcerting. There were people down on the floor of the nearby community centre told to wait until it's safe to leave. Can't say it didn't cross my mind this morning, as I was supposed to head in that general direction to work today- all the what ifs. What if I had left the house earlier? What if it happened when me or my husband were down that way? What if the shooter rode a couple of blocks in a different direction closer to my work instead? What if a passerby had been hurt? What if?

What about enough to anesthetize a bear or a cougar? Could cops not be trained and the tranquilizer guns be made (I mean could the technology be improved like technology is improved for other things) to quickly adjust for approximate weight of a person? It's an idea to lessen loss of life and grievous injury from guns. And while improving upon technology of non-lethal guns, stop making the lethal ones until they're out of circulation. I mean, the technogy for lethal weapons is improved all the time and it's pretty backwards, IMO. I don't see how it makes the world a more compassionate, humane, safer place.

Kimmio, a young lad was hit over the head with a hammer by a person who was mentally unwell, as he was walking down the street.

Canadas biggest issue in this case is not guns.

Guns in the states are a huge issue, but, not as much in Canada at this time.

I would support heightened gun control in the US.

I would support better protection and acquisition of guns coming in illegally

I also support better care and awareness of mental health issues.

Not all gun crimes are equal or have the same root cause.    

We had a man drive him and his son into a train in a murder/suicide .  We haven't suggested locking up cars/trains, because, it was an intent to die.  The tool was what was available.  

We will always have those who wish to kill themselves or others.  What we can do is work to ensure they can't get their hands on items that increase the kill-rate, and also work to identify them earlier with intervention.

We should not stigmatize people who are mentally ill either. Most are non-violent. We don't yet know if the man yesterday was mentally ill. I'm inclined to think he must've been but is everyone in every shooting case mentally ill? What about in the States? Seems to me mental illness is not always the case. How many gun deaths in the US every year? Were all the shooters mentally ill? Probably not.

Look, guns cause death. It's what they were made for. We do not have the probs they have in the states, thank god. The more gun ownership, the more harm caused by guns. We did do away with the long gun registry. A step in the wrong direction.

@revjohn - my smugness is noted.

I will continue to pray for all lawmakers to be visited with burning bush epiphany visions...