Motheroffive - didn't you know Harper is above the law.

   i wish we were an international embarassment. But the reality is that louts like Harper are the internatinal standard.

graeme

becoming?

Ditto Rev Matt

From denial about Indonesian abuses in East Timor for over 2 decades to denying the effects of asbestos on asbestos works, our Canadian governments have been an almost continual source of embarassment to aware and caring Canadians.

Jim

I agree with you 100%, Jim Kenney.

As an update, the government has until Friday to issue the travel documents to be in compliance with the court order to bring Mr. Abdelrazik home, otherwise they may face contempt of court charges. They could also file a court motion to stay the proceedings pending an application to appeal the decision. How horrible this must be for Mr. Abdelrazik, essentially a prisoner in the Canadian Embassy in Sudan!

yeah, this makes me sick. I've been hearing about it on the news. How can we claim to be so tolerant and multicultural and open to immigration when stuff like this happens?

Canadian is not what you wanna be when traveling rough parts of the world apparantly...

No knights in Shining armour to come save us from foreign policies!

As-salaamu alaikum

-Omni

as of June 19 am Toronto Star, apparently the man was tagged by the US a few years ago for terrorist ideas - not sure there was ever any evidence...

Canada was asked then, by email to help them gather evidence for criminal charges. Perhaps that is why they left him there.  But so far, no criminal charge has ever been laid.

I love this brilliant comment by his lawyer:  that he has been a victim of terrorism because of this situation as much as anyone ... 

Hopefully, he'll be home safe & sound asap.  Sickening situation, and I'm not impressed at all with this government. 

"The federal government will comply with a Federal Court order to allow the return of Montrealer Abousfian Abdelrazik, who has been stranded in Sudan for six years after being labelled an al-Qaeda suspect, Justice Minister Rob Nicholson said Thursday." (Click here for the story from cbc.ca.)

Another quote from the article: "Elgazzar [his lawyer] said he contacted Abdelrazik to inform him of the government's decision and his client 'had some difficulty containing his happiness'."

No kidding! I wonder what brought about this change of heart and will believe it when I see it but this is a hopeful sign.

Sorry, duplicate post.

He's home in Canada -- now to have him removed from the terrorist list. As long as his name is on it, he cannot work and no-one is allowed to give him money. So, he's home but he can starve, I guess.

The rest of the article can be found at: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/06/29/montreal-abdelrazik-return.html

So... let me get this straight.  This man immigrates to Canada, gets citizenship, goes home to visit family and gets detained by the government there.  Harper did what?  I'm banking on nothing.  Then he SOMEHOW ends up on an international terrorist list for which our federal agencies, although flawed - are still competitive internationally, have no record of him doing anything to GET on said list.  Now he wants to come home and we deny him travel documents...  Tell me I don't have this correct.

Now that he's back on Canadian soil, we can't get him off the list we didn't know he did anything to get ON to (he most likely DIDN'T do anything at all).  Now he either has to

A) live off the savings we hope that he has

OR

B) work under the table, effectively screwing the government for taxes...

Mind you this is the same government who didn't want to issue a simple document to get him home so I tell ya which of the above I think he should do!

Yes, that's it, pretty much in a nutshell. If one doesn't have an ounce of compassion in one's body, it's still ridiculous from a fiancial perspective. How much money has our government spent in tormenting this poor man, not to mention the legal costs, etc? I hope he sues for lost wages, costs, pain and suffering and wins.

Is there anyway we can support him from here I wonder?

I'm not sure...I wonder how that could be done. Does anyone reading this thread know of any organizations, including those that are faith-based, that are part of his support network?

I know there are some, but not which ones.  Various UCC bodies have been involved, but other Christian and Muslim organisations, too.  Hrm.  If I can dig anything up, I'll post it here, but I know it's out there.

He is eligible for welfare, of course.

i read this a while ago,

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Canada+rejects+human+rights+recommendations/1678153/story.html

UNITED NATIONS — Canada told the United Nations Tuesday more than half of the 68 recommendations other countries say will improve Canadian human rights standards are unacceptable.

there is a good amount of press on this, personally i find it terrifying.

Thanks, Matt. I wonder about his eligibility for welfare, though, given that it seems that it's been deemed to be contributing to a terrorist if someone financially assists Mr. Abdelrazik.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, kyle775. That is very embassassing and appalling.

I believe you're missing one important point in this thread since he arrived home (unless I missed it above).  The first order of business is not to get him cleared according to what I understood his council to say... it is to get an 'exemption' (I believe, or maybe an 'exception') to allow immediate financial relief from the Canadian Government since he cannot legally work with the UN/US 'no-fly' and related stuff hanging over his head.  That is, get government support so he can afford to live and support his step-daughter and then start working to getting him off the lists.

BrettA, you raise a good point but, nevertheless, he is without any means of support right now. He has spent 6 years of banishment and this, aside from affecting his physical well-being, is adding insult to injury and that's putting it mildly.

I think any sort of social assitance would show how inapproprately he has been treated so far.  

It would be interesting to see how often "white" citizens are treated this way.  I am only saying this because most of what i read these days is about non-whites being denied citizenship rights.

you're right. Our government jumped right in there after only six years while in the meantime handing him over for torture.

He's a potential terrorist? Says who? You have information which has so far been denied to the courts and even to the prime minister?

We let Bush into this country, though he killed far more people than any terrorist. Of course, bush is white and Christian.

He's a prisoner from another country? We are all of us from other countries.

Why should we pay attention to criticisms from other countries? Maybe it's because they're true.

I'll get you happily pay attention to criticism from the US - a country that murdered 200,00 in Guatemala. But the important point about criticism is not whether you respect the source. The important thing is whether it's true.

GRAEME DECARIE

nicely put Graeme.

Beshpin

who the hell is russia, or egypt to tell us that we should work on our human rights? Send all of our homosexuals, or women to these countries and they'll be begging to get back

I wouldn't mind living in Russia or Egypt. I think I would fit in better over there anyway. Canada's United Nations policy rejection is appalling. They dont even recognize Indigenous People as equal citizens. Nevermind immigrants.

"Oh Canada, Our Home & Native Land, Blah blah blah."

Oh, Beshpin, I am ignorant and stupid, but not ignorant and stupid as to run around calling everybody else ignorant and stupid.

It's so true that I should not have called Bush a mass murderer. It wasn't him. It was all those people who exercised a moral choice and carried out his orders.

Accordingly, I am starting a group to send retroactive pardons to Hitler and Saddam Hussein. Can I name it after you - the man who inspired this thought.

And, of course, if a man is accused of being a terrorist he must be one. I mean, it follows, don't it?

Is the zoo feeding you well?

G R A E M E  D E C A R I E

Oh, Beshpin, there's a difference between going to war over resources and ethnic cleansing? Reall? Then you are breaking new ground in legal scholarship. But I can see you point. I mean, there's a difference between killing to steal and killing to rape and killling just for the fun of it, and we should take these fine points into account.

If you want pure ethnic cleansing, then we have to go to Bush's daddy. The 200,000 killed in guatemala under CIA leadership were all Maya. That's ethnic cleansing. And the director of the CIA for most of the period was Bush I.

There were, of course, far more killed in Iraq. But that was for resources, so it's not the same atll.

In fact, now I think of it, the killings in Guatemala were largely concerned with a resource, too, with land. So do we really count that as ethnic (and so naughty) or is it because of the re sources angle okay?

graeme

gee, I'm jes a iggerant guy, so I hate to argue with somebody really, really smart like Beshpin who obviously has brains where other people only have earwax. But for thirty years, a good friend, a colleague, a man in the department I was chair of for six years, and a person I am still in touch with wrote what has become the outstanding work on ethnic extermination. Now, I guess he, too, is kind of iggerant by your standards, but he counts the Guatemala affair as a case of ethnic extermination. Most scholars would also put the American wars against native peoples in the same category. But of course, most scholars ain't smart like you.

And, of course, going to war for resources ain't like just killing people for some stupid reason. And I'm sure all those Iraqis civilians died proud knowing they weren't being killed just because they were iraqis.I mean, if somebody shoots you to steal your wallet, this is obviously not the same as him shooting you because of your race.

And going to war is not really murder? Gee. We hanged saddam hussein and a a whole flock of germans and a sustantial number of Japanese for going to war (not just for racial murders).Better write immediiately to all world leaders and tell th em they made a terrible mistake and they should apologize. I mean killing an innocent civilian after you declare war is nothing at all like killing him before you declare war.

Oh, Yeah, Einstein. Do a bit of reading. Contrary to yoursweeping statements, racial killing (genocide) is perfectly natural. It has happened many, many times in history, including within the US. Read the book by Frank Chalk. Tell Frank I sent  you.

GRAEME

it is on the topic  you raised about genocide, war, and murder.

What's all the fuss?

Asbestos is like cyanide gas: it doesn't hurt at all you if you don't inhale... 

...and it's "good" for the economy, especially in the cost-benefit analyses of  poluticians trying to curry favour in the town where it all comes from.

Harper: hang your head in shame!!!!!!

Canada lost the world's respect a long time ago. We're the only ones who think the world likes us.

The first thing is making sure he and his children are ok (food, shelter, etc)and then the next move is getting him off the 1267 list.

The list is so dangerous someone cannot even say they are active in the delisting movement and oppose the "national security agenda" better described as the blacklisting regime. They cannot say what organizations they belong to...

That is what this has come down to....

It goes against the founding principles of the UN and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; including the right to freedom and a fair trial, the prohibition on torture and rights to security of the person, to earn a living, and to free association.

Terrorism is a real threat. The fear of that is being manipulated.

The word and label is being used to marginalize targeted communities. Governments are using it to create fear and silence debate. They use it to delegitimize resistance. It is used to garner public support and to justify further oppression. It serves to legitimize state terrorism as we have a “war on terror”.

The UN rules fly out the window as prisoners have not rights, etc... and we are too busy looking over our shoulder and over there to look at what is happening to our own rights.

As I understand it, Mr. Abdelrazick does not qualify for welfare, cannot work and cannot even have a bank account because of being blacklisted. (If he was not blacklisted he likely still could not collect welfare because he does not meet residency requirements)

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110601/abousfian-abdelrazik-cant-get-child-benefits-while-on-terror-list-110601/

Terrorism:  "The calculated use of violence, or threat of violence to obtain some goal".

War is terrorism.

The U.S. is terrorism.

Canada is terrorism.

As-salaamu alaikum

-Omni

Yes. good thing our churches are taking the  lead in speaking out against it. Without them actually saying so. It's a secret.

What are the functional effects of Canada being a 'world-wide embarassment?'

we go down with the US. we become the creator of our own problems. We hasten all the problems the world faces.

graeme,

perhaps Canada needs the PR firm that helped out Burma so much with their "image problem"?

So we gots Russia, a recently invented country with a 'recently' invented language and culture, with its hypercapitalism and a President who is ubercynical...

We have China with an economy that could rupture space-time itself and for which it is shown that Democracy isn't necessary to have a 'fruitful' country...

We have the USA that is still quite young and, being the young kid on the block, was relentlessly teased and ridiculed by older empires who have killed and murdered many more people over their entire empires -- with whomever owned it at the time --, took the opportunities to become the most powerful kid on the block and now isn't any more, whose rulers all have True Faith in their Demiurges, the Founding Fathers, a country where people wear their feelings on their sleeves and for which Credit Rating is a social thing...

We gots the UK whose economy is tanking and who seems to be going the way of UBER SAFETY (cue Hugo Weaving mincing through...)

We gots the European Union which is still trying to figger out just what it is all aboot...

We gots Greece which is a failing state and is cutting itself to the bone in order to survive and its citizens complain aboot these measures...

We gots Israel which was formed on Spiritual grounds in an environment that was very much like dousing myself in baby's blood and then jumping into a shark tank...

Hmm, what of the other countries?

Well, I got asked by an inteviewer on Friday that what country in all the world I would prefer to live in - and it still comes up Canada. But that's mostly because so much of the rest of the world is so awful.

I'm going to remember you comment about rubbing myself in baby oil and jumping into a tank full of sharks. I'm going to use it in a article, and pretend it's original with me. Before you give me good lines, you better get a copyright.

...that's baby's blood, dear; more biblical ;3

Just let me read your peice of beauty when it's done :3

see? I wasn't really plagiarizing. Not really.

Yuppers, and to keep with the proper IP laws, all of our writing we've ever done on the internet has to self-erase after our rights are over--otherwise, all these websites will be in breach of IP and our families WILL REAP THE WHIRLWIND OF SUING MOOLAH!

The 'net screws totally with IP; swallows it hole, reguritates it to be masticated by unkind deities until the internet no longer exists.

I was replying to Beshpin, who is a troll. Try to follow the play.

Not true, I think very well of Canada. On several fronts (health care,  gay rights, etc.) you're well ahead of us.

okay. one person. Besides, we're "good" americans.