Is it a coincidence that it's primarily males?

Good question. Thoughts?

George

I know you're asking everyone, but I've been wondering why it seems to be the males that have the short fuse. I'm sure there must be some females filled with rage.fear and anger. Could it be that females will tend to internalize feelings and the the males externalize them? Are males being taught different coping strategies than females? Nature vs nurture?

As a society, what undue pressures and expectations do we place on males that are different than females? Are we collectively becoming too tolerant of abhorent behaviours because we now believe this pattern is no longer a phenomen, but  a consequence of the age in which we now live?

Not to mention, the more this stuff happens, we become numb and react less. It's as if we don't know what to do about it, so we do nothing and just wait for the next "big thing".

Another correlation I've wondered about: the widespread use of pharmaceuticals to manipulate mood/behaviour.

I've wondered that too.

Sounds like Science, George! :3

some things i wonder aboot

i wonder at the role of one's beliefs and things like compassion & violence and the interaction between the individual & the society-at-large -- what should be allowed, how should it be adjudicated?

how much should a citizen's ignorance be allowed?

should there be real consequences for continued adult ignorance?

if a population's tightly-held belief is shown to be false, how to deal with that?

is a governance style like democracy actually conducive to a long-term civilization?

how much influence should an individual be able to have on a state?  should there be some kind of testing?  time-delay?

is there such a thing as a toxic or dangerous idea?

how much am i really in control of my actions?

the human experience seems to me to be a spectrum between human burgeoning and slavery or control.  each state seems to have varying levels of trust of its citizenry and dealing with the slings and arrows of reality (poverty, starvation, disease...) -- between mob rule & total control

i wonder why Canadian women are 1/3 times less likely to be murdered, why men are 1/10 times less likely to be sexually assaulted?

i also wonder at some of the stranger implications of QM -- that of us actually instead of indirectly influencing reality.  that makes ideas like Right Speech, etc into a different light

i think that everyone can look at statistics

and then, depending on the questions one asks and the lens through which one tests these questions, that different answers can come to the fore...

oh, and some of ewe might enjoy an article going around the 'net right now; some curious sentient has 'discovered' that clothes can affect how the wearer acts & thinks...they're calling it 'enclothed cognition'..."Does this make me look too fat?" becomes something even more :3

Can one really cloak the sole in a malaligned social order such as ours ... where most pho*que don't wish to know bad Nues ... and thus don't know how to adequately spell treë*jedi (varient of jedus)? Not that far from jedis - judes ... some strange gram*mere mai apply ... for those of order outside the the norms of chaos theory ... 

Lardi, lordy I don't think thy are ready for the true light yet ... after so much time living the lie ... it's become a queer truth ...

Hi folks. Thanks for the thoughts. Busy with both Wedding and Funeral prep. Sorry to ask and then dash. Will stay tuned and chime in when things settle into their ordinary groove.

Cheers!

Hi GeoFee,

I expect that this was meant to be a nuanced statement.  What happened in Moncton is, on the face of it, easily comprehended.  We know the who, what, when, and where of the event even though why may never be satisfactorily or properly answered.

In a pastoral sense knowing the answer to why will never undo the who or the what.  At best the answer to why may help us never to repeat the what.  That is still going to be some time in the digging about and it is not altogether clear that the only who that could possibly give an answer to why might not be able to give an answer that actually helps.

It is only senseless to those of us on the outside and perhaps those who have fallen victim to.  I expect that one of the issues we will struggle with is that from the perspective of one in custody this violence may have been somewhat sensible.

And if such a case is made, whether it be convincing or not, what do we do with this particular who then?  Is he sick and in need of healing?  Twisted in need of redeeming?  Or, is he tares fit only for the furnace?

There will be a temptation to treat the issue as a communal problem after all the impact is felt by the community so it must be a community problem right?

Perhaps now it is a communal problem but it began as an individual problem that was never addressed.  Like a cancer it is one cell that refuses to accept the normative boundaries, refuses to turn off and forces all around it to be twisted and bent to accommodate its wants and wishes which corrupt and destroy.

Responses to recent events in Moncton will breed a cancer all their own if we as a community are not vigilant.

Is what happened later in Nevada related?  Is it related to Moncton by causation or correlation?

At first glance the two only appear similar, something else appears to be at play.

Though what that something is exactly is hard to say.

Grace and peace to you.

John

"Responses to recent events in Moncton will breed a cancer all their own if we as a community are not vigilant."

Is vigilance close to sentient state of psyche ... when the psyche does not exist in many states of awareness? Consider how many modern Christians would rather deny such things ... and thus save the soul ... out-there ... in the great beyond. Mythical dimension, or just something else we don't know. One thing I've learned from WC is how much the general human condition doesn't know ... all they believe they do as BS (not belief system). Makes me feel deficient and increases my curiosity of the manifestation of this alien thing (mythical) called soul!

With such complex vigilance is it easier to be naïve and not know such things ... and thus the village idiot may be the happiest ... in not knowing good from what's right in the larger image. This is contrary to mortal images and may cause mental conflicts and RIP eLs in the Big Po'eL ... Big Sur? Tis not how it appears simply ... there is more to the unseen ... that's a biblical hint! (just search "unseen" in a biblical thesaurus ... sometimes called con' cordance ... containing classic meanings that fog the simple issues!

Such things cloud the manifest destiny ... so you can deny it's coming ... a gift from God while the devil searces for the truth of such emotionally shaken issues! It is a Roman BS ... thinking men are the devil ... and yet there may be something to eM ... and thus the intangible nature of de Levite forms as they dance about ... as what we call "c" or visible energy surrounding to a lot of energy that is subtle ... can crank unknown engines ... what HG Wells called Time Machines ... powering visions and dreams of other dimensions ... if you can get out of presence as stuck?

When puddling there be careful of the deep holes ... they are like, Nus antes ... you could become innundated in thought ... sort of a demiurge that comes upon you as an end blessing that doesn't leave you feeling as if you were all at fault, Jared and cracked ... the shards of this "item" go on ... we just don't know what to label the part yet ... but no doubt id'll calm once cognizent!

Greetings,

Home, after ten days in the Lower Mainland. A few days with daughter. She and mum shopped for wedding dress. A few days celebrating the marriage of a cousin's son. And, a few days with wife's family as her mum slipped from among the living.

All the while pondering the opening question and the several responses. Much appreciated the first two, which wondered about male dynamics and pharmaceutical complications. Delighted by series of comments and questions posed whimsically. Intrigued by pastoral ruminations. And, as ever, quite perplexed by non-sensical (from where I sit) commentary from left field.

Let me begin again with this:

If vigilance is considered simply as dedicated attention, what is it that we, "as a community", ought to be looking for as we seek remedy for the increase of violence against persons by persons? What are the signs by which we may take our bearing to discover and follow the way of hope?

George

Hi Geofee

There is a thread posted in R and F that you may have missed.."Guns and Roses" by Beloved. I posted about the shooter's family. These events are so tragic and sad. Words don't come easily.

http://www.wondercafe.ca/discussion/religion-and-faith/guns-and-roses

Edit

Sorry, I just noticed you are aware of the Guns and Roses thread.

George,

Is the psyche nonsensical? If one didn't have an intellect would you go directly to the emotions for feedback? What if there is no thought on the matter ... are emotions dangerous when bared ... that's like rye in its own field! This leads one to the literary value of the hidden message in Catcher in the Rye ... the soul being a slippery item in an dimension that believes there is no such nonsense! Is that a snaky idea in a dimension where people are taught the essence (spirit) of Genesis 2 on the trees of life and knowledge without Q'Luçe of what they mean ... the understanding thereof being very subtle? The Latin Connections in the Roman realm called this aÐ'm-ism ... but most Roman Brutes like Augustine, Caesar, etc were illiterate and couldn't go with the scheme without crypt'rs ... some times these are called secretaries (deep tombs). A Nicholson wrote a great tome on this called God's Secretaries ... a great exposure on another isle-iterate authority ... King James who wished all the people (yes eM in an average sort of way/pathe or root mean square) to be just like him. To gather profound knowledge from this one must read between the lines ... as the words are generally abstract (that's black right)? Thus the explicit terminology about the Shadow knows ... but always in the background of the emotional critter! One has to ignore fear and anger to get by this one to the core issue of the Myers-Briggs statutes! They are complex and flaky to most emotional people.

In the line of the goal of purity and naïveté ... or perhaps not knowing as a state of ignorance ... how many people do you know that are familiar with the state of their soul if they don't believe it exists? One would have to wonder considerably to catch up on that one ... right? There are indications as WEBSTER states ... that the intellect is out there ... all about us, encompassing us like an aura (eLaura) and yet the faithfully blind to not seeing such errors miss the lesson in how not to do things. There are those that are self-centred that belive all these things are within our area of command. What if it is an illusion ... are there signs, icons, Semites, or are we just anti-Semetic? I find many people just hate word and all things related to it by mental alchemy. Shouldn't one care too for the unseen ... as stated biblically in a very controversial way since so few mortals understand IT?

I find I can usually really boggle many philosophers of theosophy! To the point they haven't a clue of what I speak. What doues this say about me ... or about them ... are these separate topics thata re abba'd to each other? Causes mediums to giggle in non-existent space ... that out of Eire dimension of myth and metaphor! One uses it in a world that makes no sense ... cause they really believe this! When with nonsense ... be like the Romans demand appear you know nothing! Conversely this could be diversely true ...

Could this be because of positively emotional types absolutely shun negative impressions like dimples in space? The Greeks used to call these Nus-esses close to the captive state of the chaos of Laredo when that young cowbody changed ways for the glory of being close to an aura with a harry crown ... some southern churches say this is a womans glory and others demand it be covered up as absence makes the heart more emotional ... and thus the myth with metaphors as iteration goes on and on and still ... we know so little about all of it!

I was taught in church as a young man that there was no such thing as the mind/psyche/soul and the conscience as well was non existent.

Now just stop and ponder children being taught such crap ... especially if they didn't follow the hidden directive of 1 Thessalonians 5:18-21 (and thereabouts) and question things ... everything ... and then as god is that everything? Is there an underlying power in all of this? Would this be a devious character ... like Caduces (Ja*nace in the 'ole) or that two faced thing in the Roman Play? Thus life re-iterates ... because mortals don't learn without minds ... and thus the abstract connections ... with things believed not Toby ... absence dark in-formed?

Tell me life isn't weirder than mortals think ... especially if they don't belive in thought projection or perception as it comes and goes with emotional wanderings ... that some call mental-emotional disorder that is symbolized by bi-polar states ... or binary codes if you see more than one thing in a myth ...

Is that too complex for thsoe following the KISS Prin ... De ath as poorly understood? Tis truly ode don'tcha believe ... odd/ode things hold many secrets of sacred nature ... why authorities would like the paradigm to shut up ... silence those powerful non-thinkers can't collect their thoughts!

Hi GeoFee,

Ignorant attribution to cause would be the first thing that needs to be watched for.

In the Moncton incident we have the shooter and there will be opportunity to examine and possibly to have him declare why he did what he did and what message he hoped to convey.

Until such time as a Why is offered and can be assessed we live in a vaccuum.

There is, I think, a tendency for many to rush to fill the vaccuum with reasons any number of which might feel sensible and yet, they may all be red herrings.  Those red herrings may target people, particularly people already suffering in some way or people with proclivities that we will use to justify their being made to suffer such as musical preference or favourite hobby.

Whatever does not promote fear.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Rev John: Kimmio did not write that. GeoFee did. Reading through I agree it is that which does not promote fear. The whole gun culture in the US promotes fear and that carries over into Canada eventually. We get all their media. Even with tighter controls on guns. That's one thing- work to promote plowshares not guns, changes minds and priorities. As for the Moncton shooter- if he had other hobbies and people supporting them, a mentor, role model, of some kind? Something more hopeful and less fearful as a hobby than guns. We don't know him.

Hi Kimmio,

Thanks for catching that it has been duly editted.

We don't know and so far the shooter is keeping his thoughts to himself.  Which means that the only one who can answer our question of "why?" isn't talking to us.

Any solution we come up with to any imagined problem will only work in an imaginary land.

So, we best be patient and wait for answers lest we put all of our time and energy into solutions which aren't.

Grace and peace to you.

John

What I fear...and I do fear it because of what happened here last week...is more of the gun culture coming here underground. I hope that there is not more shooting than ever...it just seems that way? That's the fear part. Last week on the day it happened I didn't want to go out because I had to go down to Yaletown area. Like a cat hiding under the furniture. That's not healthy either. So I think we just have to carry on believing and working for what we believe in. Helping how we can as we are able, to make plowshares. Without putting particulars on it that we don't know. The worst thing is to build more fear based fortresses. That's what seems to happen.

There are two things that cause us to lose our "sense" of rationale (reason) and these are fear and anger ... two senses at 90 degrees calm these powers! Some people only believe in desire, passion and irrational things! Reason does not exist! Sometimes that image is quite clear in our present state but only Eire Burd can see it ... basket cases as in the fêtè of booths? Some would take this odd word as a fest of unnatural power (thought, manna; Polynesian) or just food for the brain in observation of the hunger of the mind or the foot of such an odd binary creation in a fearful surrounding ... the real environment! Would such thoughtful powers dimminish weird passions? Get out-of-'ere ... when breathless it is said the imp aphe alters (that behind the scene) like in the desire to escape a painful situation for the overly sensitive!

Now why is it the bible deals generally in such fear? Could it be those that invade the churches with a mad desire to control everything? This is defined in WEBSTER as avarice ... a derivative of icy mental process, or even ISIS! Then who would put faith in such fixed powers that can't learn and change ... thus taking one to a place where you begin to see that the psyche is large and diverse ... infinitely so and that scares people who are instituted in statutes that they have carved out for their personal striving for excellence ... and to 'eLLe with the neighbour or any other! Very little stretch and give tome!

Of course that's only my private opinion weeping out at the insanity of mankind ... when ... with Romans, act as if you're a brute ... and cloak your tendancy to care for all other ... there's more to that statement than meets the physical eye ... perhaps even the imaginary "i" if you account for the imaginative psyche ... that knows what's beyond physical reality ... a myth is being woven as a huge carpet leading us out of our present crazy tendancy to keep people in the dark about unseen things ... kinda abstract like a Shadow Thought!

If you can't understand what I say; does that cause you fear, or anger? Is the point taken about fear ... is it all about fear alone and the power it wields to split characters into binary characters ... and suffer polar disturbances of what isn't ... the psyche appropriatly is thus labelled as something that isn't ... in hopes that we'll forget our fears and everything else we learned ... sometimes called whitewashing of the mind ... po-eM-I sole this can easily be done by contriving to keep a person's essence of brain functioning! Sometimes the "essence of brain" is referred to as the spirit of the plastic mind ... and as a geist or gust it'll play with those things lost in a passionate wild fire ... sort of like windmills in the solar phlare ... they come in a spectre of varients ... sort of like metaphorical myths to people that don't believe a thing because they don't have what it takes to test out theosophy ... 1 Thessalonians 5:21 or an interpretation thereof!

Lack of such fabric tends to leave on out in the cold as a blanket case ... and one doesn't have a clue except destructive leanings ... and then I'll be out of the question or ... final solution as some odd group called IT! They too hated the elite intelligencia ... with reason if that elite had no feeling whatsoever! Binary types are still de-duct-shins or bits that left!

Can you imagine some people believe the evaluation of this is as simple as a KISS Prin. in which you just wave intelligence goodbye so you don't have to ponder painful things? Do these return when you don't have a physical body to hide the truth of what is known deep inside (OBI that is really inward in reversal of passions) or by internal spaces that are disputed by physical scientists (thin line theory of tightly strung nature?) and essence-you'll scientists that lye in denial about the brutality of our lack of socialistic civilized manna?

Again ... that's fude for mind ... impossible ... right! Real people can't see their way about IÐ; if there is no soul ... how'd you know "I am" ... so contrary to Descartes ... I must not be ... thus I can play with yer hed (that's Ur, Big Souer) and you won't know it ... cause you got nun ... maybe ... maybe not as I am declared to not know anything, by secret church decree! ---- once called heiros gammos ... but few men of fabric understand the Imp Lick Asians ... sunshine characters for the the "c" of Nip one ... brutes don't smile much, very stoic, they can't accept life as a deviation of the infinite, a type of devilish array; trickstir, or that which causes rotation of the earth, and all inclusive of the surroundings to great edgings ... far horizons?  ... 

Hi all...

I suspect the contrary but wonder if waiting implies passivity?

My start point, as I seek insight and remedy, is that there is no problem unrelated to cause. In the case of persons choosing violence against others, generally as a precursor to violence against themselves, I suspect systemic determinants discoverable by rational inquirey. Have we the will to undertake, patiently and persistently, such inquiry?

But.... we are moving to the closure of this place and so I will move the question to the opening place.

George

Hi GeoFee,

On occasion it might.

And the cause of the shooting was what?

And the catalyst for this shooter was what?

Do you know better than the shooter?

Is the shooter irrelevant to your seeking?

And you will check those rationally discovered determinants against what?

I don't know.  Are you advocating waiting for the other to reveal themselves to us or are you ignoring the other to find an answer which seems right to us?

Which takes more will.  The ability to wait for discovery or the ability to force one?

As you wish.

Grace and peace to you.

John

"Have we the will to undertake, patiently and persistently, such inquiry?" --- GEO!

What if authority tells us to question nothing ... does that deny us questioning anything ... especially infinite topics like soul that appears to be out there being saved until later?

This would allow for hermeneutic ... or a following power ... perhaps latent intelligence?

Can a person know anything when contained in a chaos of emotion? Leads to Heiseinberg's conclusion that one must look at it from outside the system of interest ... the overly emotional one? Leaves room for outside be stilled processes ... underlying sublimation ... extremes can create a frosty environment, or one that incinerates ... like the Romans did with Classic Myths! One has to believe in things presently unavailable to us until they advocate you knowing things beyond the norm ... once known as heiros gammos ... last night in a book club that autonomous situation was denied again in leu of physical reality!