ps, I looked though a few pages in this area and didn't see a thread on this yet.

I haven't got it but asked for it for Christmas and if all else fails my roommate is pretty sure she's getting it so I'll borrow it from her.

I found a copy on the internet earlier this winter, so I've already read them all...or most of them!

That said, I'd still like a copy of the Beedle's Tales. I have Quidditch Throughout The Ages and Fantastical Beasts and Where to Find Them that JKR did for Comic Relief. I haven't asked for it for Christmas, but as everyone in my family knows I'm an avid Harry Potter fan, I might still get it as a surprise!

lol me too xD

As-Salaamu Alaiykum! Eid Mubarak!!

Happy Eid ul-Adha everyone!

-Omni

I've got all the core novels but none of the suppliments. That's good enough for me. It's still nice that JKR wants to flesh out her universe with these nonessential texts, even though I find her universe to be extremely flawed and demonstrating a poor understanding of Norse mythology.

Then again, we don't read Harry Potter for its believable universe anyway.

Oh, for heavens sake! Are you serious? "A poor understanding of Norse mythology!"

I can't even believe that bothers you! Most of the things that bothered me about the HP universe were logistics of how the muggle universe coexisted with the magical one.

What I like about these extra texts is that all the revenues for them have gone to charitable causes. I think JKR has shown great strength of character and integrity in the wake of the fame and fortune this series has brought her. Not that she's been a paragon of virtue, but I definitely don't think she's been a sell-out.

P.S. I'm teasing, killer_rabbit79, about the Norse mythology, just in case that didn't come across.

But seriously, I've never heard anyone mention Norse mythology in reference to HP.

lol, don't worry Kappa. I'm a pretty big nerd so I notice this stuff pretty easily. I do agree that the wizard world's relationship with the muggle world is even more annoying though.

The reason I mentioned Norse mythlogy was because a lot of the magical beings remind me of Lord of the Rings, however they are her own perverted versions of them. House elves are nothing like actual elves for example. And even though goblins exist, there aren't very many of them and they never try to sack muggle establishments or anything. And she didn't follow through with dwarves, halflings and orcs, which are very important in Tolkien's universe and in Norse mythology. The least she could've done is read the Middle Earth Encyclopedia thing and applied its ideas to her book. (lol, I'm jk about that)

<fantasy fiction fan>

Well, she didn't actually confine her mythical beasts to any particular folklore tradition. She basically took fantastic creatures from everything she could think up, and made a few of her own.

I don't see why she needs orcs in her story. She wasn't recreating Tolkein's universe, she was creating her own that always seemed very different to me than Middle Earth. For one thing, it is firmly set in the present, whereas Tolkein's is supposed to have taken a long time ago vis a vis modern times. Tolkein didn't bother with nearly as many magical creatures as Rowling. In fact, all of Tolkein's creatures are "people," whereas many of Rowlings are "beasts," except for the centaurs, merpeople, giants, house elves, vampires...actually, her variety makes me think more of C.S. Lewis than J.R.R. Tolkein.

</fantasy fiction fan>

That's true. I still would've liked her to be more consistant with how the creatures were in their original myths. She was pretty careless about how she designed her universe imo. She made realistic human interactions and she tied all of the story's knots together really well (which I consider a feat since she wrote seven books over almost a decade) but it's the least believable universe ever. And I know that LotR is medieval fantasy and HP is modern but the wizards all dress and act like their from around the dark ages anyway so it wouldn't be much of a problem for me if she tried to be faithful to Tolkien's world.

Also...just speaking purely of the magical world...it appears as if there is a "one world government" within the magical world...yet there are delegates from amny different countries and I was wondering, is there a M.O.M (I can't believe I used that acronym...) for every country in the world??

lol...

As-Salaamu Alaiykum, Eid Mubarak!

-Omni

Mmm, yes omni, I think that was my understanding after Book 4 and the world cup.

I can't believe you used M.O.M. either. Doesn't that mean you meet the official qualification for HP dork? 

k_rabbit, I always considered that the wizard's dress and lifestyle were one of the major problems with the series. Why are they still doing things this way when "muggles" have invented all sorts of hot shit like the internet and cell phones? Of course, I don't think the internet existed in a very big way when JKR came up with the idea and started publishing the series, so she probably didn't anticipate having to contend with it.

I thnk JKR would probably admit that she was careless with her magical creatures. She's certainly admitted she was careless with the "Latin" that went into her spells...unlike the esoteric Tolkein who created entire languages for his characters, especially the elves. Language and linguistics were his academic field, iirc, and he worked on the Oxford English dictionary. Also, he had a LOT longer to develop his world than JKR did. Basically, it was his "hobby" his entire life -- the hobbit and LOTR were an offshoot. He apparently "discovered" while writing the hobbit that it was taking place in his personal mythological world, centuries after the events that he was "familiar" with. 

If you haven't read the Silmarillion, it is basically the collection of his work that he managed to put together on his personal mythological world, based in Norse and Old Anglo Saxon myth, as you say. I read it, but no one would ever have bothered and it would never have even made it to publication without the interest in LOTR.

Omni, from what I've gathered, the MoM is like a part of the PM's cabinet, except that he is only known to the PM himself and the PM is usually kept in the dark about everything.

Kappa, it's Ron's dad's job to do research on muggles so they have a source of information on muggle culture so they should be keeping themselves up to date. I don't see why they have to dress like that either.

I haven't read the Silmarillion or The Hobbit or LotR but they're on my list. I've seen the movies but I know that a lot of the essence of Tolkien's universe is lost in adaptation so I'll have to read them over the summer or something.

Wow...you go on about Norse mythology, and haven't even read the books?! 

LOTR is a long slog unless you are used to long and complex stories. It's not necessarily an easy read. Of course, if you've already read some Norse mythology, you should have no problem. I'd start with the Hobbit (that's how I did it, that's how the books were written, and it's technically the prequel).

The Silmarillion is not for the faint of heart. Requires great fortitude and strength of will for most people to read through, and/or a passionate interest in Tolkein's universe.

I do love and enjoy Lord of the Rings and Tolkein, but I'm not such an uber-geek that I learned how to speak Elvish (they exist!), although I did look up the pronunciations of the Elvish names and places.

One of the really amazing things about LOTR is that Tolkein himself didn't know how the story would end until he wrote it. He had several periods of writer's block during the process.

Contrast that with Rowling, who figured out the main details of her entire story plot before writing the seven books.

My knowledge about Norse mythology comes from Wikipedia and Dungeons and Dragons. I've never been able to play DnD because I've never been able to convince my friends but I've read the core rulebooks. They're based on Tolkien's universe so it's a start.

I think I can take on the Silmarillion. I was nerdy enough to read the DnD 3rd and 4th edition core rulebooks with almost no chance of ever being able to play with anyone so I think I'm nerdy enough to be able to get through anything. If there was any practical use, I might want to learn Elven but I can't think of any purpose it would serve for me.

That's an interesting contrast between Tolkien and Rowling. Tolkien wrote as he went along but Rowling made a draft and gradually fleshed it out. Polar opposites! I think I write more like tolkien but I always edit my work once I'm done.

I've never read any LOTR. I've tried but couldn't do it. (and I'm a big time reader and geek, total TNG Trekker) LOTR is a grown up book and HP started out as a kids book so  there is a whole different target there when it comes to the mythology.

I think if Rowling had had her universe too close to Tolkien there would have been people who went on about her copying. She did sit down and outline her story first (the story of having the last chapter written from the start) but her style did change over time. Look at how tacked on the "where are they now" chapter felt at the end of Deathly Hallows.

Yeah, pretty much everyone I talked to had a beef with the last chapter of Deathly Hallows. I think she wanted to write it though, and she has put in all the work over the years, so she deserved it. It did kind of feel like a let-down, reading it.

Dumbledore's backstory totally rocked though.

<uber-geek> killer_rabbit, the correct term is "Elvish" not "Elven". </uber-geek>

If you've devoted all that energy to DnD, you probably can take on Tolkein. I'm not familiar with DnD, but I have a vague idea of the dedication needed to be involved in DnD or WoW. I guess reading LOTR isn't as interactive as playing a game, but many people have read Tolkein's books and have gotten FAR too involved, so you will be in good company. I just wanted to warn you it wouldn't be as easy as watching Peter Jackson's rendition since you hadn't read the books.

I have to say, the thing that annoyed me most about the LOTR movies was the depiction of Frodo's character. He is SO different in the books from the movie, imo. But I digress. We were talking about HP, and I don't want to hijack!

Are you talking about that "nineteen years later" stuff? I thought it was a good idea. She had to do it to close the relationship knots at least. It felt like an epilogue for the entire series, not just The Deathly Hollows.

Kappa, pardon my spelling, in DnD they say "Elven".

Ah, there you go. I am completely unfamiliar with DnD. Only to refer to Tolkein's elves as "Elven" sounds wrong to me because he would always use Elvish. Certainly, that is the name of their language.

You do have a point about the last chapter of HP tying up all of the relationships at the end, and settling the arc of the story. Probably if she had not included it everyone would have felt the end was too abrupt.

If enough people read your books, it's impossible to please them all!

Ohhh man... I am going to try not to come across as the uberHPnerd that I am, so bear with me.

killer rabbit, I wonder if the Norse elements to the story are not filtered through the Scottish myths first.  Elves are not specifically Norse - the 'wee' people would be considered Elven, and as far from Tolkein's universe as possible. 

As for the dressing... I think that just might be a 'styling' thing.  It's almost Steampunk.  I would be interested to learn more about the Victorian era (pre-industrial and industrial) in the Wizarding perspective.  There are a lot of pre-electrical gadgets that seem to be the seed of Jo's ideas when she writes.  I always got the impression that Wizarding fashion was more Victorian/Roman/Arthurian Romantic than any one era.  Maybe it's just because I'm a big fashion nut.

Hey Faerenach! Don't be TOO embarassed about the HP nerdiness...I am so there with you. We can always wondermail each other back & forth if no one else wants to come along.

Interesting analogy to Steampunk. I wasn't even aware of the phenomenon till I saw an article in the paper about it about a year ago. I never thought too much about the dressing, but there are some connundrums there, for sure. Rowling probably didn't think that through a lot. Given the wizard's attempts to isolate themselves from the modern world, perhaps it IS like Steampunk...we are being deliberately different and taking pride in our wizardry (but paradoxically, don't want to stand out as wizards?...hmm).

That's a scary thought.  I'm a longtime member over at the Leaky Cauldron (if you know what that is), and I'm dangerous when you ask me to analyze the books.  I won't shut up.  >:)

I only learned about Steampunk about a year ago as well, and I must say - it's fascinating.  Then again, I've always been a bit of a Victoriana nut, so there's that.  When I pulled the reference, I really meant from a stylings/costume point of view, but I like what you said about 'deliberately being different'.  That whole 'don't want to stand out at wizards'... I don't buy that for a second.  I think that's more a necessity than a true desire - look at the World Cup!  Arthur says that everyone's so proud and crazy to show who they are when they get a chance... it's like Woodstock, Steampunk and the metal scene all rolled up in one.

Dude, we should start a Harry Potter group.  That would be detrimental to my IRL health, I'm sure.

heh. I DO know what the Leaky Cauldron is. Were you totally stoked when Melissa actually got to meet JKR irl?

Have to say though, I used to spend more time on Emerson Spatz's site...the name of which escapes me right now. It seems that most die-hard HP fans are aligned with one or the other of these. And I don't even consider myself die-hard!

On the wizards part, the dressing does seem to be almost a cultural statement on their part...we're better than the Muggles, we have our own fashions. If looked at in this light, it makes sense that they don't ascribe to any particular period in history.

I wonder if pure blood wizards would try to avoid things like zippers and velcro on clothing, a la Amish?

Mugglenet, I believe.  I was drawn to Leaky from the very beginning, and never got attached to other sites the same way.  Addiction, man.  You should have seen the stuff we talked about pre- and post- Half Blood Prince.  That thing got PICKED.  APART.

Yes, I was sooo excited to hear about everything Melissa gets interested in!  I read Harry, A History over Christmas, and I felt like I was in the book!  It was a brilliant perspective about a group of fans that encompasses the world.

I don't know about the 'We're better than Muggles!' perspective, but if you think about it - they're still using tailors.  The creative juices that go into clothing are probably flowing a lot more than our Made In Taiwan consumer society.  In -my- opinion, it makes them better than us... but I don't think they all think that way.