I don't know man. I'm just a person. Facebook is a website.

I think there needs to be a balance, especially for young people. I had thought Facebook was mostly for middle aged people who wanted to get in touch with old high school friends. I don't know why you'd need Facebook if you're going to school and seeing everybody every day! You can also think of the people you meet on line though as a whole bunch of penpals. I'm really glad to have all the penpals I do!  It's an amazing wonder of the modern day I'm extremely thankful for. But if they go to your school, you should really meet them in person. Things must be very different now for kids in school than it was for me before the internet. I can't quite fathom it. I mean email bullying, this sounds awful. The backyard sports video game sounds hideous. And now my husband and I can't even find a new cd walkman to buy in town! Shall have to shop further afield.

Instead of focusing on the negative - perhaps focus on the positive? Many children lack the confidence - especially in high school - to actively engage in social interaction and in decades past, would likely have gone unnoticed. Websites like facebook open up opportunity for those individuals to develop relationships at a pace that is more suitable. Remember - one size fits all is never an appropriate stance - even in something as common as social behaviour.

Drivel. I'm sorry, but if you think the telephone was great - then remember what its purpose was - communication - end of discussion. MSN, facebook, skype - they're just enhanced multimedia versions of the telephone. Ultimately - you will see communication in the years to come reach a full level of multimedia - whereby texting-phone-video are integrated and you will see, if you so choose, the people you're communicating with. That, methinks, is progress and will lead to a reduced communication barrier and access to information.

Starboy - I'm 26 years old, so high school and grade school are still relatively fresh in my mind. I was a very athletic youngster - so opportunities to engage in athletic activities outside were always sought. However, I was certainly not the majority. I would even speculate that the dominance of a few children in athletic prowess leads to a reduction in confidence in those less inclined. Video games at least provide the opportunity for a form of social interaction on some level - and to learn the dynamics of those games. Not all children act or play in the same way. They never have, and they never will. Children that would normally go play outdoors - but for video games - will still play outdoors.

Aw. I loved my N64. Zelda, MarioKart and Goldeneye(007) contributed to some rather treasured memories with me and my 3 siblings - as it was a 4 player system. I sense a certain level of smug arrogance in your post. Remember that one man's utopia is everyone else's distopia.

Technology is reality. Stop fighting it and embrace it. Technology is not replacing real life, it is augmenting it, enhancing it, and yes, occasionally changing it - sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. Frankly - I find posts from people, similar to yours, to be completely hypocritical. You likely take for granted every facet of your western life - your food, your shelter, your education - all made possible, on the scale and quality you receive them on, by technology. Instead of opting for an anti-technology position - which is hypocritical - maybe attempt to contribute to initiatives that seek to engage children at a young age, teaching them how to balance their technological use and not be consumed by it.

i think i wrote the discussion-thing wrong. "I'm as guilty as any one." i'm not anti-technological. i love technology. so you're right, i'm a hypocrite. 

you said "Technology is reality." and that's a good thing, in your opinion. i don't know, it's just... unsettling sometimes, to see the amount of technology in our lives. 

you also said, "engage children at a young age, teaching them how to balance their technological use and not be consumed by it." the key word there, i believe, is balance. for me, walking in those superstores and seeing all these technological toys - for young kids, i don't like it. maybe i am a hypocrite. maybe i'm envious. but... i think back to the days when i played with those tiny little racecars, and i think "those weren't remote-control, or those didn't light up." is that bad, how they've changed? i don't know. i guess not. but it freaks me out, and i'm only fourteen!

i heard on the radio (don't get mad) that technological toys were destroying imagination. for example, way back when, a child would get a stuffed animal, say, an elephant, and they'd make up a name, a voice, a character, a history. they'd make up adventures and love it to death. now, a child gets, i don't know, a stuffed Dora the explorer. now, it has a name, it probably has a pre-recorded voice, it has a character, a history - it has its own tv show with adventures. 

it makes me sad.

and don't judge me, please.

I always thought toys with recordings in them were boring. They only say those few things! My Barbies could say anything I wanted! And I gave them all names too. And I stopped playing Barbies at 14! You sound 16! I'm surprised how young you are! But it's funny how you, in this day and age, feel similar to how I did when I was 20/21 in the mid 90's. I was concerned about technology then. I was a hypocryte too. I loved my techno, my electro-pop, my cd player, by vcr, my walkman and all the fun eases of modern life, but at the same time I felt over teched. I was afraid of it too. I longed for a natural life, and daydreamed about how I could make a real living for myself, where I would supply my food and make my clothing, I would have no commercials, no plastic, no electronics, no traffic, no sirens, no buzzing fridge. But I couldn't give up my Cockteau Twins, my Depeche Mode. I even had the thought, maybe I could have them put on phonograph records! I'm sure you've  not gone this far in your mind. But just wanted to let you know I understand what you mean.

I recently met a couple who did move out into the woods and forsake modern life. They built their own cabin, they hunt and garden, they have no phone, plumbing, or electricity, no neighbours, and they live an hour from the road on native owned land, Scott free. I couldn't do that. But it's nice to know it's possible.

I think anything can be bad when used in excess. Everything in moderation.

The toy thing is so true.  My kids are little and you know it is almost impossible to find toys for toddlers that don't take batteries for something.  Just try to find a plain simple rattle.  They are almost all lit up with noise effects and stuff.  It is aweful.  There are of course some toys that don't have these things, but the majority definately do.

When I first read your opening dailouge I remembered this clip - you should watch.

I agree with you Starboy, on many of your observations, and the concern over whether children are being inundated with excessive "imagination destroying" toys is probably a very valid concern. Every generation has its own challenges.

With new challenges comes new opportunities though. There are many more educational "toys" out there that take advantage of wireless integration and live-update information from the internet. Children today, should their parents elect to take advantage of the opporutnities, can easily be exposed to toys that enrich, teach and expose the children of today to more information than any other children in the history of the planet. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Who knows - it's like a bit of both. The result will be how we choose to embrace it - as an opportunity for growth or a threat to the current establishment.

Godskeptic - that is a great point, thanks.

I am usually quite against the amount of television most kids watch nowadays, but you just made me realize the benefits of it too.  Many people wonder how my kid can be reading at age 3 (he is almost 4 now and knows how to spell probably close to 100 words, maybe more, I stopped counting about a year ago when he could read about 40).  My son knew his alphabet and all his letter sounds before his second birthday.  We didn't strap him down and force him to learn, he loves learning, as do most kids, and has had a bit more of an attention span for it than other kids, but mainly we used a lof the tools available today.  Threre are a number of things that are useful, but a lot of crap too.

Anyhoo - The best thing we found was a Leapfrog video called "The Letter Factory" - we have recommended it to lots of parents and everyone we have known to use it has said their kids love it, and within weeks know more letters and letter sounds.

Charles, (Interesting picture btw), My son learned to read and write by three too. We had an electronic alphabet thingy, which sais the letter you press, and tests you on simple 3 and 4 letter words, then sais "awesome!" and the like, if the child gets it right, and he also got a lot out of watching good old Sesame Street with all it's catchy songs and alphabet things. I bought videos for him, don't know if it's on telly these days. He gobbled up the writting. Wanted to learn. We taught him a lot on paper. And when he'd learned that we moved on to addition, subtraction and kept on with spelling longer and more interesting words, all for fun, not work. Now he really enjoys writting in cursive. School is a bit of a problem, way too basic!

We've been sort of worried about school be boring for him too, exspecially my wife.  She got into trouble a lot in school because she was bored and so talked, then got high marks.  I talked a lot too, and got high marks, but it didn't really bother me.  I used to wonder how much different things would have been if my dad had let me skip grades as some teachers recommended, socially though I am glad he didn't.  I was already always the youngest and the smallest in the class, I can't imagine if I was with kids 3 or 4 years older than me.

The picture is interesting to me too, the meaning of it changes for me a lot as I look at.  My son took it of me on his little digital camera and was one of the only pictures I had on the computer when I signed up here.

Charles, Have you got your head in someone's hands? I can't quite make that out.

If you live in a city, there might be a gifted school you could enroll your son in. We live out in the boonies where there's no such thing unfortunately. Then the children get to be with their own age and doing interesting things accedemically. I suspect, and have read about one math whizz, that the older kids in classes with a young whizz kid, treat the kid with respect. This kid was taking each subject in the class which he was at the level of, including one or two subjects with kids his own age. This made things complicated shedulewise, and the parents had to ferry him around in the car quite a bit, but it worked out well for him. He is now one of the world's leading mathematicians.

For us, our son gets so much socially out of school, that makes it worth going. We've looked into home schooling, but decided public school is better for him developmentaly. I teach him things on paper at home still, to keep life interesting, and support his intelligence when he brings home the dumb things they've done in school, by showing sympathy, and praising whatever he's done nicely, or chastizing him if he getts lazy reminding him how much better he can do and not to be embarrassed about it, and offering ideas for how he can embellish the assignments to make them more interesting. He recently did a report at home just for fun and presented it to his teacher and principal, inspired by a local home schooled child who did that.

I knew a guy in high school who had skipped a grade and he was nigh on a genius. He tried to keep it quiet that he was a year younger. I thought he was a hunk anyway! And he finished 6 months early (much to my dissapoitment). He used to lay back in physics 12 and read Thorough, then when asked, rattle off all the answers the teacher could throw at him no problem. Amazingly cool!

Anyway I've totally high jacked Star Boy's thread, sorry Star Boy! Any more parenting talk, we'll stick it up in parenting.

 meh, elanorgold, chat about whatever you want.

i actually find this mildly interesting because i skipped grade 2, and haven't looked back. now i'm in grade 10, in an advanced stream (powerpack leading into IB) and, well, right now i'm taking grade 12 IB physics. i'm not a super genius - i just like school.

Yah, I'm not sure what I am doing either.  The resolution on a kid's camera isn't too great so blowing it up doesn't help too much either.  I think that is why the meaning of it can change for me as I try to decide what I am actually doing, or what it looks like I am doing.

Just to keep the topic off topic a little longer, unless we move to a larger city our only options that we know of are French Immersion or home schooling.  We figure French Immersion would at least challenge him for a while until he learns the language, plus my wife did French Immersion and his cousins speak French too, but thanks for your ideas, I think I'll tell the wife, she worries about this sort of thing.

Thanks Starboy. I figured you were a bright one! Maybe Charles and my kids can take this powerpack IB thing. I'm thinking of my son skipping grade 3 as it would be another year in the same room with the K-2's not learning anything, and the teacher has trouble enough allready keeping learning levels appropriate for those 4 different ages.

CW, nice rant. I get ya too. My Dad used to complain whenever I was "plugged in" to my walkman. I was addicted to techno music for a year and a half. The work week was a tormentuous waiting period between weekends. I became nocturnal, and allmost crashed the work car once from falling asleep at the wheel. I plugged in to the walkman at all times. No wonder I came to feel over teched! I sort of cold turkeyed techno, suddenly couldn't stand it anymore, stopped clubbing and started playing Loreena McKennit, Robbie Robertson and folk music, and getting into fibre arts again and dreaming about my cabin in the woods. I like my techno again now, only the gentler stuff, and in moderation. "Everything in moderation", wise words from my Dad.

I use music to benefit me now too. Donovan's Sunshine Superman is great for lifting the mood! I agree, down music can keep you down. When you're down, it feels good to wallow in it for a while, but then one needs to get out of that and play some Donovan or some Loreena!

I am very wary of computer games myself. My son wouldn't play any if they hadn't have got him started on them at school! I let him play online for an hour every few days or once a week. We won't be buying any.

TV, we don't receive it, just watch videos from the library, no comercials that way! Nothing wrong with a little vicarious adventure, but if it goes on in the morning and doesn't go off til midnight, that is a problem. I buy my Doctor Who so we can watch episodes when it is convienient. I also have a couple other fave shows on tape or dvd.

I've also decided to phone my Mom more often. She likes it better than emailing. Yes I have felt isolated and cut off when people don't reply to my emails. SO I stopped emailing so much. Better to choose not to write than to be ignored! It's less lonely! There's allways someone here on wondercafe though! Allways someone to hear you. I hear you mate!

I hate the lack of cellphone edicate.  If someone phones me and I am at a cashier I answer (cause I don't have call display or messaging) and immediately tell them to hold, then finish with the cashier.  I would not want to be working retail or service industry at all today.  People treat you as though you don't even exist, their phone is more important.  You can hear their conversation, none-sided anyway, and it rarely seems as though it couldn't have been put on hold for a couple of minutes.  The other day I had the opposite, the cashier was stopping in between every few items scanned to carry on a text conversation.  I would fire someone for that, or a first and only warning any way.

The worst one yet.  I am a stay at home parent, but some times my wife stays home and I go work a job for a bit, gives both of us a break and construction allows for that.  I was working on a pipeline tank farm.  Some what dangerous work if one is not paying attention.  One of our operators used text message while driving the Bobcat around at full speed weaving in and out of ditches, around diesel tanks, workeres, everything.  He got caught, sent home for the day (most sites would fire someone and ban them from there for a minimum of 6 months).  Next day he was at it again.

 i really don't like how a lot of teens can be so sloppy when they write things online. you know, the classic text speak. do they actually not know how to spell, or do they just not care?

Yeah text speak bugs me too.

That guy text messaging while driving the bobcat-Cripes! Incredible!

I know what you mean starboy. Technology isnt bad, because  we wouldnt have many things without it. But in a way  it can be a sort of...prison, if thats the word i'm looking for. Lots of my friends have cell phones now, and they text each other from across the room. Its pretty sad, almost like they are abusing the use of the cell phone. Technology isnt really my thing though, I like things to be real, and natural

If you think text speak is bad, my brother says "lol" all the time in the place of actually laughing. That is sad/very annoying!

I love technology

It keeps some distance between annoying people and yourself

If people understood the value of gaming they would not be so against it

We are living at light speed but is that such a bad thing ?

LOL CW I just hope you are not heading into some weird Unabomber personality, why so upset ? if you need more friends on Farcebook just invite people (kidding)

Multitasking is a way of life now and not just socially but in the workforce as well , you will be expected be something of a techie in your day to day job activities unless you plan on being a beekeeper or something.

Embrace it

I do find it interesting that people who are wary of technology are using the INTERNET to voice their concerns, pen and paper would be much more symbolic ...... right ?