What is wrong with sex outside a committed relationship? Nothing, as long as it is honest and safe, sane, consentual.  Unless, there is something wrong with the sex....

I agree with StevieG. There's nothing wrong with that if that's what someone chooses to do. For me, personally, I will only have sex within a committed relationship. But that's not because I believe that anything else is wrong. It's not for moral reasons. It's just a comfort thing for me.

You want to know what's wrong with sex outside a relationship?

HERPES!!!

lol

SO TRUE!!!!!

;)

I think there is the reality and there is the ideal.  Ideally, everything including shopping, tennis, going for a walk, childrearing, etc. is better with someone you love.

One example I have personally is that I have a few friends.  If we are unable to coordinate our schedules (not all of us just two of us) to go on a vacation we do not go at all.  The reason is we do not like going alone or we do not want to go on a tour with a bunch of strangers.  Would it still be fun?  Probably.  We know the experience of the vacation would be more fullfilling and safer if we were together.  We are all single and working extra shifts for various reasons so it is hard to coordinate our schedules.

We could have this thread about a different topic.  Women going to the bars alone.  I personally think that is a safety issue and one should go with a date or a woman friend.  That is not to say that every woman who goes into every bar in the world alone will be abducted,  date raped, or murdered.  It is just saying that the odds are higher.

So going back to sex.  The odds are higher that one would get an STD if they had more frequent partners.  The odds are higher that one person in the relationship might be serious and the other might not be.  The odds are higher that a level of false intimacy reached too soon might be detrimental to a longterm relationship.  The odds are higher that one person is in the relationship for love and the other to use the other person because of that love.

On the other side a marriage or otherwise committed relationship may also have all of these issues.  One spouse may find out after years of committing and being faithful that he or she has an STD because the other spouse in the supposedly monogomous relationship was not committed.  The odds of hurt in this type of committed relationship are exponentially higher.

There is the reality and there is the ideal with everything.  Most people are somewhere in the middle.  Many people cannot achieve the ideal so they settle for what is and some know they are settling.  Some convince themselves that they have the fairy tale life and look down their noses at others who have not acheived what they have.  Some lucky ones actually have the fairy tale and want others to have the same.  There are some very bad choices that some people have made with respect to their boyfriend/girlfriends.  The 300% increase in the women's shelter services proves this.

Even as some people will not ever have access to the good life with respect to a career that they enjoy due to options in their life some people may never have the opportunity to find the fairy tale.  So they are left with the choice of being a nun or monk (my apologies to madmonk) or having uncommitted relationships to fill up their time.  Through these uncommitted relationships they may find a good relationship or they may learn better relationship skills. 

Ultimately, I am not sure that God cares about people's sex lives.  Sex is a grey area and people mistakenly either take it too seriously or too lightly and the answer is somewhere in the middle.

It's wrong if it hurts someone. For me, even when I thought I was broken up with my second boyfriend and hadn't seen or spoken to him in weeks, I still wouldn't see another guy until I was sure it was officially over. I guess my Mom taught me that.

Serena, fantastic post.

When I think about sex, or any other issue, I try to reflect on it through the lens of the kingdom of God -- God's dream for the world.  If the world was the way God would want it to be (where all people are fed, safe, respected, living life to the fullest, creation is honoured, justice reigns, etc), what might the "ideal" be for this issue?  And yes, of course I am revealing a huge bias, so I'm not going to pretend that I have corned the market on wisdom or God.  But when I contemplate how much God loves us and wants the best for us.... then I believe that sex lives up to its fullest potential within a committed relationship.  Not because sex outside of such a relationship is wrong, bad, evil, but that within such a relationship it can be so much more.  Now of course I would also want the committed relationship to be ideal, as well -- between two healthy, whole, joyful people who are equally committed to care of self, the other, and so on.  Then sex can truely be a divine expression of self-giving and self-care, and an offering of thankfulness at the same time.  shalom!

I will have to second clergychickita, I just couldn't put the words together yet (not that I have a life and work beyon WC of course)

I know that this is going to make some people mad  but I am going to post anyway. As I look around me, I find that some  men and women do not put enough work into relationships - committed or not .  Sex before and ( if I may say so - during) relationships between two people, I think causes the couples not to strive for a  relationship that works.

It is too easy to walk away from troubles in the relationship , too easy not to work a bit harder; too easy to jump from one sexual liason to another. It seems that in marriage ( and committments), we have given up on on  how to try and make it work.

So, I guess, my opinion is, that sex any time with any body is too easy. I think that this is why there are so many marriage breakdowns and divorces. Of course, this is my personal opinion.

Thanks for your posts all.

Serena, cool post.  Funny, I'm the type of person that if there is a band at a club that I want to see, I'll go by myself if no one wants to go with me.  I'm also happy to go to the movies by myself and go out to dinner by myself.  I've never had the opportunity to go on a vacation by myself, but I think that I would enjoy it.  Not that I don't really enjoy going out with friends and family, but it is either/or for me.

Clergchikita, I didn't catch the 'why' in your answer.  Why do you feel that way?  Why do you think that God feels that way?

Crazyheart, I don't think I understand where you are coming from.  If people do not want a relationship and they are very clear on that I don't get how your points apply.  Not everyone is in a place where they want a relationship, why should they have to be in one in order to have some intimacy?

Somegirl said:

"Not everyone is in a place where they want a relationship, why should they have to be in one in order to have some intimacy?"

What are ya, some kind of heretic?

Crazyheart, I don't think I understand where you are coming from.  If people do not want a relationship and they are very clear on that I don't get how your points apply.  Not everyone is in a place where they want a relationship, why should they have to be in one in order to have some intimacy? - somegirl

So, what you are saying , I think  ( not trying to put words in your mouth), is sex is just an act - with no strings attached. I guess this is where we differ, I think that sex is more than just an act.

I think that sex is better and probably safer in a committed relationship since the trust levels, knowledge of the other person, etc. are higher but I don't think sex need be confined to committed relationships. With proper precautions and due respect to the other person, casual sex has it's place. Extra-relationship sex, unless there is consent from the other partner, does not (adultery is not a sexual sin, it is a sin of dishonesty). Of course, there are relationships where that consent exists within a committed relationship. On the other board where I hang out, we have a number of polyamorous couples (both open relationships and people who literally have multiple committed relationships on the go) and they see sex in a rather different light than we mono-amorous sorts. It's quite eye-opening. I think it is rather limiting to say only one type of sexual relationship is valid. There are many variations and not all of us are suited to all of them. I may be perfectly happy in a monogamous, committed relationship and uncomfortable in a poly situation but if someone else is better suited to a committed but poly relationship, then they should be free to pursue that provided their partner is of a similar intent. Our only concern as a society needs to be ensuring that (a) the relationship is consensual and (b) there is some support for children who come out of the relationship(s).

 Our only concern needs to be ensuring that (a) the relationship is consensual and (b) there is some support for children who come out of the relationship(s). - Mandalla

I totally agree with you whole post but with this in particular.

Hi, somegirl -- I assume you are asking about the "God's dream" part and not specifically about sex.  I had some brief exposure to church as a kid (7,8 yrs old) and then none until I sought it out for myself as a 16 year old.  But what I did get from my United Church experience was this concept of God as the epitome of selfless, giving love for all people, no qualifications necessary.  As I continued to read, struggle with Christian tradition, and finally embrace it with all of its failings and glory, this continued to be the centre of my belief.  It makes sense in my head, it fits with my personal experience of God's presence, and it is a legitimate perspective coming from various strands of Christian history and practice.

As for sex in particular, my personal experiences have reinforced for me that sexual intimacy is more fulfilling within a committed, loving relationship.  I have lived experience of both paths.  shalom!

No one's really answering the question (other than serena). Obviously sex is better with someone you love. But this isn't a reality for all people at all times. Does this mean that people who are not in committed relationships should not have sex? No, that would be stupid. In that case, sex gets built up on this grand pedestal, built up more and more. There's a serious risk for disapointment here. It's just sex. When approached with appropriate concentuality, and safety, sex outside of marriage is fine (more likely adviseable).

I could see 'waiting until marriage for sex' leading to plenty of divorces. Sex should not be the reason for marriage; once you cut through all that magical and mysterious BS surrounding it, it's just like anything else.

gandal -- I wouldn't say it's "adviseable" -- if you are just needing a physical release, do it for yourself!  Luckily our bodies are designed in such a way that we can self-pleasure, and don't need to use someone else to achieve that goal.  It is safer, you can be completely selfish, and it eliminates the possibility that someone is going to be hurt emotionally.

Oh i realize that's a possibility (one using the other). That's why i stated the importance of consentuality. Both individuals need to come with the same level of comittment or the same kind of goals or whatever you would call it. I'm not saying this is how it does work, just how it should.

i say it is adviseable not because it provides release, it seems necessary in one's emotional development to experience sex with another person. If this is left until the person is married--what is the average age of marriage? 25? 30? Older?--one part of that person's psyche is left stunted. He or she might begin to put far too much stock in 'what sex will be like' once they get married.

What is wrong with sex outside a committed relationship? Answer - it depends!

By that I mean it depends on relationship factors. If neither party is in a committed relationship then casual sex is okay.

If one or both parties is in a committed relationship, it usually involves a betrayal of trust, and in my opinion that's not okay.  (I'm not convinced in the idea of "open relationships "- it's usually the idea of the dominant and more secure partner.)

I wasn't in a committed relationship until I was in my thirties, and like a lot of women in that position, I met a lot of men whom I subsequently discovered were married. I ended these relationships because I wouldn't have wanted to be in the wife's position. Also, sex can lead to caring for the person at a deep level, and what single woman wants to be involved for years with a man who has no intention of divorcing? A little foresight can save a life of victimhood.

For me, there are ideals and then there are realities, sometimes sad and painful realities.

For some people, sex is just sex. For some people, sex is intimate. For some people, it is going through the motions of intimacy. For some people it is not something they enjoy at all... Where we are, is where we are. Where we want to be, is where we want to be.

I know people who have release with a partner sex. They do not want a commitment. They could lie and say they do to get that sex or they can be honest and open and find that sex. Personally,  I would rather say "no" to the question "do you want to have sex" than be led on, lied to, told they love you, will call, etc....

I know people who are serially monogamous. In some cases, they would like a commitment, but one has not come along.

I also know people who have anonymous sex. They are where they are.

I also know people who would die a virgin waiting for a committment to have sex.

I can say I have had various experiences. There were times when sex was just sex.

I can lie and say sex in a committed relationship is always better sex. It would be a lie. I have had great sex with someone I did not know well and bad sex with someone I was with for years.

If we think about safety and ability to be vulnerable, there are those times, places and people for who it is safer feeling or they can be vulnerable with people they do not know that well.

IMO If sex outside a committed relationship diminishes nobody, yourself or the other participant, then it can be fulfilling.

yo somegirl--

ive grown up in a christian family and this statement has been drilled into my head for years. especially from my daddio, who was hitler when it came to sex.

rather recently ive been questioning wether or not sex is all that bad. its like im blieving that statement to be true because thats all i know. but i figure if its all ive been told up until now theres gotta be a reason for it. so i looked into it.

hmm, i think that sex is definitely more than just sex. to me, its like an act of cementing something. i guess theres a bunch of emotinal stuff. its that i would be putting aside all risks- childbirth, disease whatever- to be so intimate with someone. i'm trusting someone not to hurt me and to be in complete control over what they do to me (to an extent).

pretty much i'd lay everything down just for one person to have.that'll be the only thing that person can have from me that no one else has had. how flippin sweet is that?? well, i tihnk it is.

theres a book called Sex God. its by the same guy who wrote Velvet Elvis: Renewing the Christian Faith, or something. you should check it out.

ps- im not sure why people would say its wrong in general even if they believe it to be. everyones got different opinions, as cliche as that sounds.

A committed relationship implies a high level of emotional and physical bonding between the two people in a committed relationship.  Stepping outside that committed relationship strains that bond and can lead to jealousy, a sense of betrayal, broken trust, and the uniqueness of the relationship.  When I worked in family and addiction therapy, I had some couples who had stepped outside the committed relationship.  One couple went so far as to join the 'swinging'; i.e., spouse swapping, scene.  Several of the marriages in their group broke up resulting in a devastating embarrassment to their families, especially their children.  The emotional bond should precede the physical bond for a stable foundation.  Without that bond of trust, committment, and caring the foundation weakens threatening the structure of the relationship.  Would you like to walk in on your spouse giving a "Bill Clinton" to your best friend, and comparing you unfavourably to that person?  I've witnessed more destruction than blessing from this particular behaviour.  Would you risk living in a house in which the foundation had been weakened and your security and safety compromised?

retiredrev, I wasn't talking about sex outside a committed relationship when any of the participants were in committed relationships with others, but just that the participants are not in a committed relationship with each other. Sorry that I didn't make that clearer.

std's are friggin' rampant... having sex with someone outside a committed relationship is pretty much just playing russian roulette with your vagina.  or penis, if you are a guy.

LOL Sighs. But very true!

STD's are friggin rampant... Clinics will tell you how high the incidence is among some who think they ARE committed or think they ARE in monogamous relationships.  Having sex with anyone who may not be as committed or as monogamous as you are without practicing safe sex is russian roulette with your genitals.

I stand corrected, although it's still like playing Russian roulette with a loaded gun and only one blank chamber.  STD doesn't stand for Doctor of Sacred Theology in this case.  I'm reminded of a guy in my undergraduate days who had sex with anyone and he was bragging about the three women he had been with one weekend.  A few days later, he wasn't so boastful when he had to go to the University Medical Clinic for treatment.  He went through the next five years of one crisis after another and the fear that he could get AIDS.  Through many complications, he ended up sterile.  Women avoided him like the plague, and he eventually took his own life at age 35.  In anything, you must assess the risk.  If there was no risk, then be a jackrabbit.  The truth is that there is a risk that has become pandemic in parts of the world.  It's just not worth the risk.

Hrm.  They make these things called condoms.  True, not 100% safe.  But neither is crossing the street.

Now, if you are too dumb to use one, then that would be a cause for concern.

condoms??  speaking from experience, even using a condom is russian roulette with your vagina... they aren't completely reliable by any stretch of the imagination. 

I stand by safe, sane and consentual.... with or without commitment....

How about this...why not just do what ever works for you.  At the end of the day, if you're happy wih your life, then so be it. 

Hmm, I am not quiet getting it. What do you guys mean with "committed"? Some seem to think: "within marriage", some think "emotionally involved". For the marriage- thinker I wonder- how often have you had sex in your marriage without being emotionally involved at that moment? How often do married couples use sex to make up for a fight and avoid  talking about the reason for the fight that way?-is that okay/not okay? I guess, this is just life. Or maybe this only happens in marriages which get divorced later on? (I actually doubt that).

However, for me, having sex with someone you don't really love is a very unhealthy thing and should not be a ongoing status, whether inside or outside of a legal marriage.