That's horrible-- sounds slanderous. Have you notified the school board?

Why oh why do some Christians choose to focus all their energy on bashing gay people and generating hatred? I can't understand it. They don't seem to spend a fraction as much time condemning or even discussing senseless war, or the countless scandals and abuses on humanity that exist...but gay people, according to some of them, are the most evil sinners around. Grr, it upsets me.

It reminds me of the Last Supper and the inclusion of women into the meal with men ...

Sort of sounds queer in a social order that sets their women aside ... or perhaps it was just a gael selection of all aspects of the integral spirit ... explicitely all implicite? That's all encompassing ... small matter in a world hell bent on hating the neighbour and yet claiming to follow the cardinal binary code ... love thyself and the neighbour?

How big is the neighbourhood? That can be expounded upon by hard soles ... Roman-type boots ... and God wanted the whole thing destroyed ... leaving it to man as a self-destruct mechanism ... now there's a Gizmoe to observe from outside the system ... exclusion ... shunned... how would we label that function? Be de athe 've Meis ...

Exe, what a pleasure to read your words again, particularly since one of your old threads reappeared to remind me how much I have missed you.

Now, excuse me while I go and type one of my infamous rants

;-)

From the CTS message board:

Jesus Farking Christ - what a nutbar.  Here's your fellow Christian, folks.  Can't you just feel the love?

Whoever "Rob" is on that message board, he's swimming against the current.  I may have to post there myself if I get a chance later today.  That should go well.

I'll visit the site and add my support to the TDSP

The radical evangelicals  have stopped being harmless/ ridiculous and are seriously wading into psycho/scary. Thanks to the government we voted in for the next eon, they have alot of leeway and support.

Only if the stream gets one kind of fish ;-)

I have posted my 2 cents worth in support of "Rob" but I add that having met my share of internet nutbars in the literal flesh, I did so by protecting both my on and off line persona. 

I advise others to do so as well.

WC does not need another Furrball episode.

LB

-----------------------------

Warning: the Internet may contain traces of nuts. 

      Author Unknown

My response to "Daniel"

I am all for diversity, but who will be the delegator of what constitutes a " Healthy Relationship" ? the system? , will it be considered bias against the education sys to believe its moral values are wrong? what will be born out of the system in the name of bias? Ternary 

I place my child on the alter of goverment

i think not 

LOL Rob is me LOL.  Just saw some of your posts.   I LOVE Y'ALL!!!!!!!

What I found deeply disturbing is that no one there can spell.  They are clearly not concerned about the quality of education their kids are receiving. I heard them say that schools should stick to the 3 R's, but man, if the parents are any example, that generation is doomed.

Some people want to find Satan under every rock and others -- God. Some just find  the Inconvenient Truth.

Had to correct my own spelling, but hey, it's not me criticizing the TDSB curriculum.

Kimmio, I don't think contacting the school board would do much.  As long as there isn't a direct threat, they probably don't have the time to deal with a bunch of nuts.

I'm not sure where 100 Huntley Street is based from, and I haven't seen the show to know for sure, but there's the possibility that some of the comments on the show could be considered hate speech.

Thank you for this thread!

And thank you chansen for your excellent contributions here and on that other site.

I have posted a comment there as well.

This has me motivated to act.

Hugs

Rita

Here is a hopeful sign...

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2011/10/28/3350576.htm

Hugs

Rita

"Ternary???"  

"Ternary?!?!?" 

FFS, blackbelt.  Here's a dollar.  Go buy yourself a clue and stop trying to regurgitate the "tyranny inherent in the system" crap you're getting from your church, FOX News, and whatever right-wing email lists you've signed up for.

A "healthy relationship" is one in which the caring goes both ways.  It's a relationship built on love and understanding and trust, where neither side is taken advantage of.  And you can have a "healthy relationship" with a member of the opposite sex or a member of the same sex, if you so choose.  If your religion says a "healthy relationship" isn't possible between members of the same sex, then your religion is a bloody disgrace and you can go whine about it in a corner while you learn to spell "tyranny."

sounds like your in shit deep with the system you cant see anyomore 

dont forget the "white picket fence" along with the " and the lived happily ever after" in your farytale dream 

Wow, the "ternary"!! Who's in deep with which system? I'm sorry, I couldn't resist, and do not want to start a war. We are all clouded by the systems and groups we are part of. I find it ironic that people are talking about indoctrination by the school system from the indoctrinating pews.

I posted as Jane on that thread. I couldn't top what Rob and other WC posters wrote, so just added my two cents. Sadly, some of the posters are so paranoid that nothing short of medical intervention will allow them to see any different view.

Healthy relationships don't make headlines. Nor do they boost ratings for the most scurrilous, sick, dumbed-down, dead-meat medium of them all... television. 

Give up the box... you'll be happier for it and less deeply misinformed and manipulated.

CTS? Never been there... clearly among the lower-life denizens of shrunkien-head land.

so which system do you prefer? self or ?

You missed my point. Or came to the wrong conclusion. You are as much in deep with a system which indoctrinates as those who you accuse of being in deep.

All you're doing is repeating the same crap you've heard on right-wing radio programming.  You don't know what "tyranny" is, and your spelling was so far off that we know you've never read the word before.

My "fairytale dream" is one in which the kids who are wired differently don't get bullied to the point of suicide any more.  My "fairytale dream" is one in which the biblically-based hatred spewed by yourself and and others like you is repudiated wherever it is found.

And it's not nearly the "fairytale dream" it once was.  It's slowly coming true.

Thank goodness most people are becoming more tolerant of differences. At least that is what I hope is happening. Keep on dreaming chansen. I am dreaming the same dream.

What we need (and it seems we have) are some dreammakers!

Thank you all for speaking out and being counted.....

Lets see if we can inspire some more dreamcatchers!

Hugs

Rita

Hi chansen- Why are you so upsett? I for one think your post at the end at least, was right on.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Chansen Wrote--------Your question, then, is no different than asking if a girl and boy made a pact for oral sex, how would we feel as parents?  Depending on the ages of those involved, uneasy.  There is an age at which my son and my daughter will start experimenting with sexual acts with a partner.  I can't stop that, not even with a shotgun.  But I can help give each of my kids a sense of self-worth so they don't go looking for approval and affection from others-------------------------------I think your right hear Chansen it is up to the parents .To teach an guide are children . But the day will come , when we are not there an ,and are children must make a choice, by what they know and understand.The Bible says we are to teach are children when they are young. So when they grow up, they will walk in that way.I don't believe you would want( me) to be a teacher at school ,teaching your children what I believe. Nor do I want (you) to teach my children.But I would like your children, and mine, to except each other ,and there right, to believe what they wish. As a canadian I am very proud.We in this country don't make others change who they are. We just say welcome Canadian.----airclean33.

The problem is, it takes an atheist to actually go out and refute the crap that blackbelt is reciting (badly) from memory, because Christians are too farking timid to go out and take on one of their own.  Especially when the idiot Christian is simply singing from the bible.

So don't come to me and congratulate me for speaking out against this crap - it's the same stuff that your own stupid bible is telling you.  I suppose I should be congratulating you for managing to ignore at least one of the more hateful messages in the bible.

lol what an arrogrant bastard you truly are 

You are an ignorant person with an ignorant faith, and other people pay the price for that ignorant faith.  It's not "arrogant" to oppose the sort of stupidity that you promote.  It's not even ternary.

no no no I called it first, copy cat , 

you are a total arrogrant bastard, not only for this thread but msot of your posts, apart from you faith , you chasen are a very ugly person 

Normally, I'd be content at this point to give you the last word, and have everyone else decide for themselves which of us is out of line, and/or which of us is worse.  But even though this plays into your hand, I just have to ask, are you aware that "arrogant" and "ignorant" don't have the same meaning?

you are correct, i read it wrongly 

you arrogrant bastard you 

At least this inability to read my comments is a refreshing change from your inability to spell yours.

Has anyone invited the posters to come to Wondercafe? That would be interesting.

You keep proving to me that your an arrogant prick, seriously dude, you have one ugly character  

You keep proving to me that your an arrogant prick, seriously dude, you have one ugly character  

Whatever you say blackbelt.  You still have an ignorant faith that contributes to an environment of intimidation and abuse toward young people who are ill-equipped to handle it.  If making that call is "arrogant", then I'm arrogant.  I've been called worse by better people.  But let's not go around pretending that Christianity has done anything other than contribute to the homophobic rhetoric that helps "legitimize" the non-acceptance of homosexuals whose only crime was to be born with an attraction to the "wrong" gender.

Hi Waterfall,

I haven't and I won't.  When WonderCafe.ca opened up we had many posters join and proceed to launch into attack after attack against gays and lesbians, their agendas and the United Church for enabling and facilitating the attack on Christian marriage.

To be completely honest, those were not the good old days.  To be perfectly candid I don't miss any of those posters.  WonderCafe.ca gets hot enough as it is without those particular posters back and stirring things up.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I think the word you're looking for is "Christians."

And this goes to what I wrote earlier, that moderate, accepting Christians would rather bury their heads in the sand than rebuke the anti-gay stance of other Christians.  I've got lots of moderate UCCan members here who will debate the merits of Christianity vs. atheism with me all day long, but when it comes to debating against the more hateful and ridiculous forces of Christianity, that is usually done by an atheist, and as we saw here, we get a few token moderates piping up that, "We agree with the atheist here."   Same thing happened months ago when DKS wrote some stupid stuff about "this life being fluff" or similar nonsense.

Yeah, we already have enough bickering in here already. Too bad this thread had to resort to name calling and insults.

You sure it was CTS?

From their website:

CTS…“Television You Can Believe In!”

Our Mission
Through electronic media, CTS produces and presents spiritually uplifting, informative, and entertaining faith content, that appeals to a range of age groups and is chiefly animated by Christian principles.  CTS is a responsible organization that adheres closely to its license standards while serving as a model for other broadcasters and content producers.

Our Vision
To be identified by all viewers, customers, suppliers, associates, and employees as the dynamic, top-quality, highly-respected access point for faith media, producing spiritually uplifting wholesome programs for all family members, and continually reaching new viewing markets.

Are you telling me they are as evil, sick sad, vacuous and screwed up as the rest of teleland? Live and learn...

So - here's my post to their forum. It's been a while, and I haven't seen it get out of their moderation queue yet:

I understand what you're saying, but then how do we expect to change the world for the better if we aren't willing to be uncomfortable?

Wow, Rita.  You really tried over there, though the results were predictable in a forum full of Christians.  Obviously, I didn't write any of the nasty stuff, but after reading it, even I feel like apologizing.  I'm impressed how you put yourself out there and tried.  I replied to a couple of the idiots who slagged you.

Thank you chansen .... thank you very much..... your posts there are wonderful and I appreciate your attempts there as well.

Whether or not they are christians..... maybe there is a label like that for them.

I do hope you can consider me as a christian ..... though not of that type....  I surely hope I am a better different.

As for standing up to that kind of christian ..... that I am prepared to do ..... even where I live...

chansen ....... I appreciate your dream.......

Hugs

Rita

Oh, I'm aware that the term "Christian" is broad, but the Christians in that forum are the ones who are defining Christianity in the public square these days.  Well, them and Catholic priests.

Hi chansen,

I've been very deliberate about how I use the term "Christian."  I'm narrowly literal concerning it.  A Christian is one who "resembles Christ" so I would use it freely if I felt a person reminded me of Jesus and I wouldn't use it if they don't.

I respect you and others will have competing definitions of the term.  I accept and understand those definitions and in a conversation I'll use them though I don't feel obligated to.

That is an interpretation that fits.  There is also the reality that I don't spend a lot of time engaging extreme positions of other "Christians" because they are not listening to anything that others say and they hear only what they imagine others to say.

What I do is present an alternative.  I appreciate that you would rather attack me for what I am not rather than examine who I am.  In that you are no different than many of those posters who came in attacked and then left, except for the angle of attack.

How does one debate against the hateful or the ridiculous chansen?  What points do they make and how can you rebut them?  Which hateful and ridiculous member have you convinced to be less hateful or less ridiculous?  Point me to the thread.  You are good at baiting and ridicule, is that what debate means?

Does their agreement sting more or less than the fact they decided to draw a line and place you outside of it?  What if, instead of saying, "I agree with the atheist" they had said, "I agree with chansen."

It should come as no surprise that Christian and human are not mutually exclusive categories.  Christians screw-up.  They screw up badly. 

It should come as no surprise that Christians write some stupid stuff either.  Some of it will be tremendously and preposterously stupid, some of it only slightly so.  Stupid is subjective.  Rev Steven Davis is a Leafs fan and he posts as much.  I find that stupid.  Does that mean everything that Rev. Steven Davis does is going to be just as stupid?  If I thought so that would be a classic example of just how easy it is to be stupid.

Grace and peace to you.

John

You can try to start a trend, but that is a very uncommon definition for a word that few people are confused about.  Most will tell you it means someone who believes in or adheres to Christianity.

By your definition, Ghandi is suddenly a Christian.  You wouldn't be the first to think of him in that way, but I don't think that's how he would have self-identified.

I really don't think I'm "attacking" here. I think it's regrettable that moderate Christians would actively rather avoid confrontation with their more literal counterparts.

Christianity doesn't even attempt to make sense. Mockery and ridicule are the best tools at my disposal to point out how silly it all is.  I can certainly debate, and I've done that here with well-researched posts before.

Am I changing minds?  I'm not under the impression that I'm going to personally convince any dyed-in-the-wool Christian to renounce their faith.  I can be part of a more public opposition to faith, and maybe get some people thinking, but not likely the ones I'm responding to directly here.  If I were more tactful, I doubt my "conversion rate" would go up from zero.

I do get a lot of "I agree with chansen", and it doesn't sting at all.  I'm honestly honoured when people reply like that.  I do try, between wisecracks, to make good points and I try to be a good person, and it is encouraging when Christians actually come forward and side with me, even when I'm not phrasing things as delicately as possible.

Steven has some curious affiliations, but the example I cited had more to do with the devaluation of life, which I consider a fundamentally dangerous position to take.  "Stupid" was too soft and flippant at the same time, and I shouldn't have used it.

What I'm getting at, is there are Christians here who hold beliefs that are not compatible with the beliefs of more "conservative" Christians, but what I'm seeing is that they rarely voice them.  You're letting other Christians define Christianity, or rather, you're failing to get people to think of yourselves when the think of a "Christian.

Hi waterfall,

How exactly does my discomfort make the world better?

Granted, If I am the problem discomfort on my part might cause me to move out of the way.  I take as given that other might be moved by my discomfort to take some action on my behalf.  And then there are those who use discomfort as a reason to dig in and make others uncomfortable.

It amounts to a toss of a coin and what one is willing to risk when they wager.  It also is a question of who pays when the piper plays.  Things are great when i make a bet and I have to pay out because I lost.  Things are not great when I make a bet, lose and make others pay for it.

I'm not so casual with other people's discomfort.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hey Folks

I just walked in and had a chance to read some of your posts.  THANK YOU for taking the time.  It would seem now that I have been banned from the other site.  I would hope that my language respectfully reflected what was truly perculating in my heart but it would seem that I have stirred a pot there.

REGARDLESS thank you for taking the time to write your thoughts and opinions.  You have truly blessed me in the smallest of ways by your actions!

EXE

Chansen, I especially loved your response to Daniel re: asking if you could find a list of Satan's agenda somewhere...and whether or not it included rising gas prices and shrinking donut sizes at Tim's. Priceless, lol! I think even Daniel was amused.

Hi chansen,

The majority are as apt to be wrong as a minority.

Not automatically.  The connection would have to be made in the mind of the one applying the term.  Ghandi's gentleness and his devotion to his people remind me of Christ's devotions to his.  I agree that Ghandi would not have self-identified as Christian.  I don't know that he would have been offended by me seeing Christ in him.

I suppose if we live in a black and white world avoiding confrontation is the same thing as not seeking it out.  Of corse if we all live in a black and white world we are all extremists and the only thing we can do is yell back and forth at one another.

Sure it does.  Maybe you don't buy those attempts.  Two different things attempt and success right?

Truly?  Mockery and ridicule have a place certainly, but the best place?  

From my personal perspective I'd say that was when you were at your best.  Simply because honest argument fosters respect even if it doesn't lead to agreement.

Which is a valued service that you have provided here.  Your opposition forces us to think.  We may not arrive at the same conclusions on all matters.  The mockery and ridicule tend, hereabouts, to lead everyone to essentially the same spot and it isn't a decidedly thoughtful one.

Agreed.  If we want others to be thinking about what we post we should recognize that wounded hearts are not routinely open.  There is a quick and easy way to score a zero and there is a harder way which might bring in slightly more than zero.  We all wrestle with which path is the right one to take.

I'm glad that WonderCafe.ca has been able to afford you that experience.  I may have read more into your initial comment than was warranted.  

I cannot remember the quote off-hand and I won't deny that such devaluation does happen from time to time.  I'm not convinced that some of our scripture is read as it was meant.  For example, several scriptures compare life to grass which blooms in the morning and by evening is tinder for the fire.  I believe this points to the brevity of our time not to suggest that our relatively few years aren't of any worth so much as it is a warning not to waste them.

While I do believe in the notion of the afterlife I also believe that I'll have time to sort that out later.  Life is still lived in this moment and my duty is to make what I can of this moment rather than sit around and watch the clock.  If there is nothing later I've lost nothing doing what I can for now.  If there is more to come then having used this time well means I might use that time at least as well.

Fair enough.  No need to dwell on it then.

And yet those other posters condemned for doing nothing but oppose them.  in fact our opposition to certain posters was seen as the reason why some of those posters were given the heave ho.  Yet another damned if you do, damned if you don't situation I guess.

It certainly is a possibility that it is my failure to convince others.  If others do not listen or will not consider the failure may not be mine alone.

Grace and peace to you.

John