Do you mean "Would anything get done" .... in church? or .... in the world?

In church or out, meditation/prayer/spirituality or what have you is a great activity if it leads to action in the world.

Praying for peace in Darfur, for exmple, is a wonderful thing to do .... as long as the hand you expect God to extend in response is the one at the end of your own arm.

DAvid

I think it's a cop out... if it IS a cop out.

If it's not a cop out, then it's NOT a cop out.

The measure, IMHO, is sincerity.

I know of churches (usually charismatic/evangelical but not always) who identify people they consider to be truly "gifted" in prayer and who let them loose - so to speak - to pray.  That's what they do - most of them very passionately and sincerely. That's the role they believe God has called them to and the community they're in has confirmed that sense of call. I agree that if everyone decided this was what they were called to there would be a problem - in the words of Paul "If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?" But as long as we're actively seeking guidance and discerning what our call is, I have no problem with some people saying that their role in the church is to have an active prayer life.

Most congregations still expect the minister's spouse to be an unpaid second staff person, available to fulfill the congregation's whims. You've made the offer. Now let them choose, and not judge, lest ye be...

How would the congregation feel if the minister slagged everyone who refused to volunteer?

You missed the point,RevJM, I said it was fair if she didn't want to volunteer in the church. i was looking at the broader picture of prayer but no action in the world. for the rest of us.

If she sincerely DOES pray for the church and its people, that's valid.  A friend, years ago, had just married and his wife, who was 30 at the time, was asked if she was joining the ladie's senior's group.  She chuckled and said not for the next 35 years.  She DID say she would pray for them and, from what I know of these people, she did.  When someone says they're praying for me, I take them at face value.  A cantankerous old dude like me I needs all the help I can get. 

Praying, to me, is connecting one's mind with the creative power or force of the universe. This power can't do anything for us if we are passive, but it can and will help us if we, like IT, are dynamically and creatively active.

The inverntionist God, who will intervene or our behalf if we do nothing but pray, is a dangerous illusion.

If the ultimate creator power has indeed created us in ITs image—as most of us believe—then this image would be creatorship. If we, like God, are dynamically active and creative, and, while doing so, align our personal creative power with the ultimate creative power, then God will help us.

Hi crazyheart,

Well that depends on how one defines prayer doesn't it?  I mean if prayer is nothing more than kneeling in a closet somewhere filling our mouths with words of praise to the point that our hands and feet cannot move at Christi's bidding then it doesn't seem like a whole lot of work will get done.

It would appear that an active prayer life is a tree from which the fruits of service are plucked in season.

Again it would depend upon how that prayer of life actually plays itself out.  That is only half of the equation though.  The other half is what service looks like.

In your questioning of your clergy as reported in your initial post it appears (I don't believe it is intentional) that you have offered suggestions for the minister's wife that limit her service to congregational endeavour rather than looked to see if her vocation might lie elsewhere.

My wife has sung in the choir at several congregations that I have served.  Music is not her gift or her calling.  Teaching is.  And so at present she is serving as part-time lecturer in the faculties of Education for Brock University, Nipissing University, Redeemer University College, Tyndale University College and the Elementary Teacher's Federation of Ontario.  She could teach Sunday School.  I think that she serves the Church and society far better by teaching future teachers how to understand and teach students on the Autism Spectrum of Disorders.  Apart from that she is a special educator who has a wide range of experience working with all manner of students with special needs.

Worship is her opportunity to be the student and to learn.  Currently she worships in my home congregation where she is not viewed as the minister's wife but Kimberly.

Grace and peace to you.

John

If everyone in church did nothing but pray I wouldn't consider that a church. I'd consider that a prayer group. A very good thing, but not a church. I believe that, thankfully, God has called different people to church for different reasons. Some seem truly talented in prayer. There are people in my church who I think could pray and pray eloquently for hours. Everyone seems to especially express spiritual connection when these are the individuals who are praying aloud.

Since I've heard of people who can pray on and on and on, and I believe in a God to whom people can pray, a God who desires our prayer, I'd have to say that I don't think it's a cop out. At the same time, I am mindful of this Bible passage, "When you pray, don't be like those show-offs who love to stand up and pray in the meeting places and on the street corners. They do this just to look good. I can assure you that they already have their reward. When you pray, go into a room alone and close the door. Pray to your Father in private. He knows what is done in private, and he will reward you. When you pray, don't talk on and on as people do who don't know God. They think God likes to hear long prayers." - Matthew 6:5-7 (CEV) 

One time I found prayer was at Five Oaks walking the labyrinth looking at the trees.

Jae, I too have been touched by prayer while walking a labyrinth - at Five Oaks and in a small community outside this city.   It was a very peaceful and meaningful experience.  An 'open heart and thin place' where the Holy could be known.

My sister's mother-in-law, a devote Baptist who had always been active in her congregation, reached the age when she could no longer carry on an active role in the church.  She was concerned that she wasn't able to do her part.  The Pastor asked her if she would be wiling and able to pray for those in need.  She agreed and each week she was informed of people to add to her prayer list.   For awhile this worked very well.  She took her job ernestly and each day thought about each person and what she knew of their situation and held them up in prayer.  However as her list was getting longer she was becoming more frail and it took her most of the day just to manage her life - getting dressed in the morning, looking after her meals, taking her meds, tidying up, etc.   She talked it over with her son and on his advice told the Pastor that it was too much for her. 

I find this hard to understand.  I guess I think of prayer as something as natural as breathing.  I pray as I go about my day.  Sometimes it is with joy, praise and thanksgiving, sometimes in worry and concern, sometimes asking forgiveness when I know I've made a mistake, and often its in intercession for others.  I hear of a disaster somewhere in the world and I pray for the survivors.  I think of my recently widowed friend and I pray for her and give her a quick phone call. I remember that my sister is having surgery and I pray.  Things pop into my head as I go about my day, and I pray.  

I think that if I had a prayer list I might keep it on th fridge door, and pray while I peeled potatoes or shelled peas.  Or maybe in the livingroom next to my favourite chair, to think a prayer or two as I sat down to relax, or just after I write in my journal at night. 

But maybe some types of prayer, for some people, take more time and effort, and perhaps they just don't have the time or energy to pray as they feel they are expected to.  Maybe an active prayer life does take more effort than I give.

What revjohn said.

I agree with Witch's take on the cop-out.  I hope that congregations will soon get over the idea that it's any of their business what the minister's wife does or does not do in the church.  Her job is already huge...debriefing must be a full time job. 

George Arthur Buttrick, a renowned preacher, once said, "Pastors think people come to church to hear sermons. They don't: they come to pray and to learn to pray."

Most congregations operate more like a business than like a church. They put more faith in Roberts ( or Bourinot's) rules of order than they do in what the Holy Spirit is saying to them through their times of prayer together. Most church decisions are based upon 'what I want' rather than a sense of 'what is God seeking'.

I'd take ten more active people who pray over ten more committee members any day.

Two books to consider:

A Praying Congregation  The Art of Teaching Spiritual Practice
Jane Vennard  The Alban Institute 06/05  ISBN: 156699313X

Vennard shows how to teach prayer as the heart of what it means to be a church.

Becoming a Blessed Church: Forming a Church of Spiritual Purpose, Presence, and Power  by N. Graham Standish

Alban Institute 2004

Standish shows congregations how to trust in prayer rather than institutional functionalism to lead a congregation.

I haven't seen many books on how to build up a church by getting more people on the committee boards.