If so, it was a ham-handed decision. It will send the movement in a new direction, but it not likely to dampen. On the contrary, the general failure of governments to deal with the crisis as we go through a round o new budgets, will probably worsen matters.

I take back what it wrote. I'm coming across signs that it was nationally coordinated, probably by Homeland Security.

One source that is biased, but that has proven reliable in the past is

WWW:Washingtonsblog.com/

From another source, it seems that  many American municipalities can not longer afford police forces - and so are resorting to private firms to replace the police.

Hi Alex,

I don't find it suspicious at all.  I think that metropolitan Mayors probably communicate about stuff all the time.  That major urban centres are all facing a specific dilemma together would increase the probability of some kind of coordination.

That all occupy groups were not hit the same way at the same time shows that there isn't a sophisticated and coordinated attack.  I'm sure that if, for example, the police forces of 10 North American  cities wanted to coordinate raids it could be done easily.

In TO for example why send in by-law officers with eviction notices if there is going to be a raid?  One reason might be that the Police aren't disturbed by Occupy Toronto.  The other might be because the police wouldn't initiate the breaking up of a peaceful protest.  Now that there is an injunction agaist the forcible eviction at least until Friday for the Occupy TO  folk (while the legality of the eviction notices are examined) the police will not act unless the protest turns violent.

Grace and peace to you.

John

yes. Riots squads are real gentlemen about things like that.

They do it all at once so protestors don't migrate.

can someone please explain to me what thease protests are about? i havent watched TV at all, i been bussy with work and family. I know there are protests buy why i have no clue 

What might look like collusion is also the inevitable falling of winter in the northern hemisphere and that's being used as an excuse, as was inevitable.

On top of that, the Christmas Consumer people would like us to stop protesting and start shopping.

Blackbelt, the protests, in the most general of terms, share some similarities with those of the Arab Spring. They are the inevitable result of the widening gap between the haves and the have nots, the 1% and the 99%. They are grassroots representatives of all the people who are convinced that there's something wrong with the way things are being run, and the Things (Corporations) who appear to be running them.

I have been in communication with Occupy Kamloops from its early manifestation. I have been greatly encouraged by the young persons with whom I have entered into solidarity. Each brings forward a creative and courageous testimony to the hope for change. Together they solve logistical and ideological problems on a momentary basis. They stand ready to freely engage all who come by the Occupy Site, in Spirit Square. All are welcome and taken for who they are. This includes the mentally ill and the hopeless poor.

Local media repeats the global question: "What do you hope to achieve?" Each occupant gives answer.

One young man speaks of his experience as a mentally challenged youth in a divided family home. He clearly articulates the unequal distribution of power expressed in his relations with the diverse social services of the city.

A middle aged single mother has travelled four hours from home to spend three weeks with Occupy Kamloops. She is a small business owner who worries about implications where corporate dominance is the default position of government.

Occupy Kamloops has had visitors from Occupy Calgary, Toronto and Vancouver. These bring greetings and encouragments, mainly as hand written notes from Occupy participants. They also bring insights and learnings as well as gain insight from their experience with us. We send hand written notes with such when they set off again. They will share these personally in the destination Occupation.

As a theologian this all engages me at a deep level. We have communities gathering, problem solving, texts in circulation by emisaries. The radical critique of status quo. The eschatological anticipation of something new, not yet defined.

For the past ten days or so our General Assembly has been discussing eventuallites. After some days of talk, it began to seem important that whatever happened did so by the determination of the Occupants. Rather than wait for the law or winter to force dispersal the Occupy site would be voluntarily vacated. The task in hand was the location of secure space for storage of all belongings on site, as well as transportation. This all coordinated to make possible a middle of the night exodus. Another task consisted in finding safe spaces where the homelss participants could make night camp. Most of this informed by the thinking and doing of a thirty something young man with a tremendous sense of tactics and diplomacy. I was honoured to work with him as a mentor friend.

It did not all come off just as planned, but in the matter of a few hours the site was cleared and cleaned. This happened just as we first heard of the forcible clearance of Occupy Wall Street. The occupancy was dispered. There will continue to be General Assemblies, first reflecting on the experience to date, next imagining and excuting creative Occupy projects, and then... ?

The best way of understanding the Occupy Movement may well be as an immersion experience.

At the risk of arguing against the majority, I am very conflicted about the decision to end the camps.  On the one hand I am saddened to see the camps go because I like the movement.  But I also am not impressed by some of the people that the camps attracted.  For example I would not want to walk through those parks or have my children walk through those parks with people using a lot of drugs etc.  And unfortunately that was what was happening in a lot of the larger areas.  In Vancouver a young woman just died and the week before that another person had to be rushed to the hospital with an overdose.  One can say that overdoses happen every day.  That is true but not in front of the Art Gallary where children should be able to play.  So the problem is that what should have been a real political movement ended up making it so that family and children were excluded from public areas which frankly is not fair.  

Further, there are other examples where the movement has camped in parks which had been reserved by others thus stopping those organizations from using the park.  Again, for those community groups this seems hardly fair given that they had paid for the right to use the park, advertised that their event was going to be held there and because of this protest was having to move venues at the last minute.  This kind of thing can be very difficult for many small community organizations putting on sporting events, or for Brownie, Guide or Scout events for example .  

Finally, and probably the most important, in Canada the winter is approaching.  In all of Canada we struggle with people freezing in the winter.  Even in Vancouver there are trageties every winter where homeless people die when the temperature goes down.  Think of how much worse it gets in Montreal, Toronto or New York.  The protestors were living in tents with unsafe heaters or worse still fires.  I believe that the primary reason that most of the camps went down at about the same time had a lot to do with the temperatures.  The mayors of the various cities did not want to be blamed when the first death occured through hypothermia or deaths occured as fire ripped through one of these camps.  I am not saying that the government leaders were acting in any alturistic motives but risks assessments are done throughout these kind of events and at this point the risks of allowing the protest to continue outweighed the political risk of closing it down.  Simple as that.

Sadly because of winter coming, I think all in all shutting the camps was the right thing to do.  I sincerely hope that the protest movement finds a way to morph into something else because especially in America, I think that many really good points are being made.

As far as I'm aware, not all of the cities have evicted the protestors.  I think they are still set up here.

Yes, I think you are right.  I believe our city still has our protest too.  

I don't know how long they will last though, the start of a winter storm is estimated to start in about 30 min.

There is something about the Occupy movements world wide that is sounding familiar........

Back in the 60's I was a hippy - right down to my cheesecloth dresses, flowers in my long hair, and sandels.

I drank more wine than was good for me, and smoked dope.....

I was idealistic - and longed for a world that was about love and unity - and against war and conformity.

For a few wonderful years I thought we would succeed - but in the end we didn't.

It wasn't the 1% that defeated us back then - but ourselves.

In time we were sucked into the dream of an affluent lifestyle - if we and "ours" were okay - we quietly forgot what we stood for.

In short, we - whose parents were proud to call themselves working class - sold out and became part of the consumer driven middle-class.

We bought better homes and more gadgets - "stuff" and marketing drove us.

To assuage our conscience we voted liberal rather than conservative - but the pollsters knew what we were about - and thus our so-called "conscience" parties talked a lot about welfare - but made damn sure that our taxes wouldn't increase and the necessary public services would be cut.....

In short, the 1% are a problem in today's world. Their income levels are nothing short of obscene.......

But, IMO, it's time to get real here.

It's not just the 1% - but also us.

We, the "majority" - the middle-class - don't want to part with our "goodies".

We loudly decry carbon when it comes to cigarette smoking - but, hey, we still want to drive our cars......

We still want the latest iphones, tablets, ibloody marvellous.....

And, personally, I've got nothing to be proud about. .....

Every year I get on that big ol' plane and travel overseas - ignoring my carbon footprint......

So, what to do?

A sliding tax scale based on income is a start. But, even to accomplish this, somehow? there would have to be a way of this happening without ways of avoiding tax.........

To be honest, I'm now pessimistic about a favourable outcome.

It is the 1%  - but it's also "us".

In biblical terminology, we've become part of Caesar's Kingdom - and God's Kingdom is sounding sadly more like an idealist's dream......... 

Nobody wanted to be the first.

Pilgrim - as usual, you make a lot of sense.   It's something like the bully.  The 1% are the bully.   But many of the rest of us unable the bully but doing nothing - perhaps hoping some of his 'victories' will benefit us or that we aren't the next to become his victims.

But it happens when we allow bullies to control our lives.   Some of the middle class make it to the elite, but at the other end, more slide down to the working poor - trying to claw their way up.   And the bottom edge of the working poor slide back into the seasonally employed, or underemployed, to the unemployed, and then, it is a slide downhill to the homeless poor who beg for a living.   

But where does the power lie.  Not only with the bullies, but with his cronies and supporters, and those who stand around and do nothing.

I see the Occupy Movement as a step in the right direction - a chance to say "Stop your bullying.  This is wrong."

I agree Seeler - I think that the Occupy movement is far more relevant to the US than in Canada where the "system" is working better- however having said that we as Canadians could learn from our sisters and brothers in Sweden.  The problem in Canada though is that the banks and corporations did not abuse the system like they did in the states and thus, we do not have as much to complain about.  We also have a more solid welfare system.  What we have to guard against is an erosion of our system so that we do not become more like the US with deregulation and privatitation of medical and social services.  We pay higher taxes but that is ok.

Oakland Mayor Jean Quan let slip in an interview with the BBC that she had been on a conference call with the mayors of 18 cities about how to deal with the Occupy Wall Street movement. That is, municipal authorities appear to have been conspiring to deprive Americans of their first amendment rights to freedom of assembly and freedom to petition the government for redress of grievances.

Likewise, A Homeland Security official let it slip in a phone interview that the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security had been strategizing with cities on how to shut down OWS protests. The FBI is said to have advised using zoning ordinances and curfew regulations, and to stage the crackdown with massive police force at a time when the press was not around to cover the crackdown.

What these two reports show is a high-level conspiracy to deprive Americans of their constitutional right to protest peacefully.

I am only dealing with the 'coordianted' part.  Of course there is conversation but too make it into an evil dark anti democracy aspect of big bad people is to miss the point that of course leaders talk to one another and so they may come with the same actions but as pointed out the methods change.  But to make the ideological statement of conspiracy is to suggest motatives that really are a projection.

To raise this point is neither to defend the occupation nor the the closing down of them, for that is a whole other discussion.  But the quick move to conspiracy thinking without empirical evidence says much about our distrust.  There is a problem sociologically and ideologically about conspiracy theories and they never get at really is happening.

I agree wholehearily with your points concerning conspiracies and projecting motives onto the actions of leaders. 

My concerns or suspicions were raised because usually when police  take coordinated actions or share information between cities and countries, when moving against common threats, such as drug barons, they usually talk about it,  without giving away too much detail as to loose the ability to do so again.   

I am concern not by a dark conspiacy, but due to issues surronding the incremental build up of a secuirity system that slowly could be used against peaceful protestors, and than other groups demanding change like First Nations, trade unions, and civil society in general.   If the police just came out and told us why all the camps were shut down around the same time, and what resources they used to coordiante it. If they did.

My fear is not that they have a goal of squashing democracy, but due to what some call instramental rationality. Because they/we  have the tools or instraments to do something, sometimes mean we use them for no other reasons than we can, and without thinking more deeply about the long term progression, these tool creep into uses that they were not meant to, and than slowly the use of these tools become an accepted way of doing things in more and more ways.  Which can be for the greater good, but also there use can change things for the worse in some ways.   A good example is how the freedom to peaceful assembly and free speechhas slowly been diminished over the years. This was brought home to me when I saw an interview with an elderly Occupy Wall Street demonstrator who was very excited about the movement mostly because over the years free assmbly and speech had been curtailed to the point that they had not been able to hold a demo of any type on Wall Street since the early eighties or sevenities due to a series of laws that had slowly over the time made it possible to limit free asembly around Wall St. Even Occupy Wall Street was not demonstarting on Wall Street (where the bankers work that they wanted to hold accountable) but at a Park nearby. Nevr were they allowed on Wall Street.  

Between the muslim terrorist threat, and the drug baron threat  which I believe has been used to build up a very expensive security network, that is not only wasted when other real threats that cause alot more damage, (like violence and abuse directed at women, children and others who are vunerable) go without the needed resources, but is than turned against peaceful protest for which it was not intended raises questions. (If that is what happened)  Now I am not saying that it was either bad or good, I am just saying that these things need to be discussed openly, and we need to know what our resources are being used for. the fact that the police and others have not held press conferences where they explained in genralised terms. Secrets are bad things and they can lead to conspiracy theories that like Pan said misdirect our attention as well.

Now for something of topic, but about a conspiracy theory leading us astray.

My biggest pet peeve against the 9/11 conspiracy theory is how they always point to how the buildings collapsed, (pancake style,) including the building that collapsed after that was not directly hit as proof they must have been demolition charges set by American authorities to cover up something.

If you ask any older stone mason they will tell you why and how, and practical solutions on what to do to prevent these types of pancake collapses. Yet people do not want to listen to Bricklayers or stone masons when there are "passionate Theological Professors with a theory.

Having been a bricklayer, I have been told  by old hands, (so I have no reference readily avaiable; --) that the trade centres , were built using steel. Now normally steel is encased in masonary (concrete blocks) because masonary last almost forever (see Great Wall of China, etc) and it is also the best protection against heat and fire. (They use masons to build the nose of the space shuttle).  Now the Trade Centres were the first project that did not use masonary to protect the steel structure. They decided because it was so tall that they would use a fire and heat resistant foam type material that could be sprayed on. Of course masons were aware of this at the time, due to the threat to masons jobs from a new product. Now over the year bits and pieces of the foam broke off(at a much greater rate than would concrete blocks, due to vibrations cause by other work etc. Now when the planes hit, a lot more of the foam was knocked off the steel, which now had no or little protection against fire and heat. The two buildings that were hit directly of course lost the most foam, but the vibrations also knock lesser ammounts of the smaller buidlings that were not hit. Now the planes fuel cause a massive and very hot explosion which also ignited other materials on the planes and in the buildings. The steel structure, which now had little protections aginst the heat, started to melt.. Now even if steel does not melt completely, and it is only softened (sp) it looses it's strength. Thus it starts to collpase. The building that collpased next to the two targets that causes so much suspicion among conspiracy types, had less foam loss, and was further away from the heat, so it just took longer for the steel structure to melt/ soften before it collpased.

So remeber this the next time someone invents an unproven product to use in buildings. rather than look for secret service agents with bombs.

I like this example because it connects my two loves (process thought and stone masons,) (a famous process prof is a big promoter of the conspiracy theory, proving anyone can be a genius and a fool at the same time)

I think that it's ironic when people are concerned about safety among the tents, parks that aren't accessible for awhile, fear of those with addiction or mental health illnesses - conditions far worse than anything even hinted at by the Occupy movement exist everywhere. Masses of the world's population live at risk of disease, at the mercy of corporate masters, with a chronic shortgage of clean water and fuel for heating. No medicines, malnutrition, threats of war, forced into refugee camps...the list goes on.

These places are in the free trade zones of the Americas, in various sweat shops in Asia, in different African countries and in any city you can name. The degree of poverty may vary to some degree but worrying about one's next meal as a way of life is a shared experience because of corporate acts in a world of plenty. 

It is privilege that has allowed many of us to live our lives with most of the world realities hidden from view. Among many other activities in which they are engaged, those in the Occupy movement are living with and among those who are poor and marginalized. It's an act of bravery and solidarity to move away from the comfort and familiarity of our lives. 

It's also not easy to see or experience, with that, I agree. Something happened to me a few months ago that brought this to the forefront of my attention and I wish I had been more graceful about how I responded. Maybe next time...may compassion grow within me until then.

Where compassion flows as a trickle it wears down apathy and anger. Admitted as divine agency compassion enlarges from trickle to stream, washing away all impediment. Today you (and we) thirst for compassion. Tomorrow, or the day just after, you, with us, will be overflowing. That is my prayer for you and for us each and all.

Thanks for your prayers for all of us, GeoFee.

I don't think it's a coordinated conspiracy...However, I do think the powers that be (the governments at various levels I mean) are nervous.  That said,  I think they are nervous for different reasons. In Vancouver, the mayor and residents are still reeling from a riot that happened this summer. For the mayor, I am sure part of it is that he doesn't want another one right while he is trying to campaign for an election...but also has valid safety concerns for the city. What is happening in Toronto is different from what is happening in Vancouver which is different from what is happening in New York. New York and Vancouver are culturally different. New Yorkers are more bold, it's in their blood I think. The mayor of New York understands this, and shares this quality, it seems, even though he is on the opposite side of the protesters and his tactics have not been peaceful. It is bound to play out more dramatically in New York all around. I think, in Canada, we will be relatively apathetic unless we are personally feeling a lot of heat...which many aren't yet. On the whole, across the country, protests have had a relatively small turn out  following day one. The public isn't as invested in the cause because for one, it hasn't been effectively promoted by the movement organizers, and secondly because Canadians are not risk takers. Most of us are too polite to create the slightest bit of discomfort or disruption to the staus quo--and we don't want to be perceived as "rude" unless we are desperate, and average Canadians don't perceive themselves as desperate. There are also culturally sensitive dynamics and local concerns at play in Vancouver that are not in New York. The thing with Vancouver is, I really do feel compassion for the homeless and drug addcited in this city. However, if the protesters don't raise the issues that are global, things that can be addressed at a national level, it will, sadly, be seen by the city as more griping by the Downtown Eastside community (which is not to invalidate the concerns there, they are very valid, but to illustrate the general attitude of people in this city). This is a global protest that has, in Vancouver, become limited to local concerns and the right for the camp to exist as homeless shelters. That is not an adequate solution to homelessness, nor is it addressing the global concerns that lead to poverty and marginalization. The camps are as much a safety issue as are the downtown eastside conditions...but that still doesn't get to the heart of problem. I also suspect, in Vancourver anyway, that there is a small contingent of more militant activists, not opposed to more violent provocation, who found a weak spot in the lack of code of conduct, disorganization and confusion around the core issues to focus on that exist in Vancouver, and they helped derail the original intent, regardless of the city's feelings about the protests. They really didn't care about the heart of the movement or about the city's concerns, but only about their own. That's how it seems to me. It's really too bad...but I believe that the movement can be revived here even if it takes on a different form from the camp. They need to re-start with a unifying issue to get it going though...one that they can get the public and unions to support in large numbers.

Rattle my daggs! The Aussie shiela's about right, I reckon.

I think, Grim, you pushed the the right in-your-face buttons — and I think the reason too many people don't "get" it is because the challenge is not to politics or policies, but to a value system. It's OUR VALUES that have to shift — we've known this for some time but are too terrified of losing  our over-consumption opportunities to own up to it. There's a bloody craven sense of entitlement in North America and a large part of the Antopodes (your off-shore islands aren't like that of course) ...and the "Occupy" movement is bang-on. Of course it's going to draw in some junkies and streetfolk — they're in the situation they're in because of the dictatorship of crap value systems. Where sould they go? A local bank  boardroom?

Hey Mike, I think Pilgrim's is bang on also. In my above comment, I didn't say that Canadian's apathy and skewed values is okay...I said it exists. And the only way the movement will gain any traction here is if there is a more global and unifying issue that can get Canadians out in the streets protesting. The apathy to local concerns, and the shift of focus onto local concerns, is what is holding Canadians back from getting into the movement. Also, though, no matter how much there are individual Canadians who do care, I don't think the local concerns can be solved without looking at the decisions, rules, laws, policies, ideologies, being imposed from the top down. For me, it's not because I don't care about local concerns, i.e. homelessness, drug addicition, apathy to it...I just recognize that public perception and strategy are important factors to consider in order to get anything done about it. We will get nowhere if we focus on band-aid solutions to homelessness that the public isn't invested in. I don't think there's a way to make more comfortable Canaidans care about homelessness and addicition. What they will care about is their own pocketbooks and decreasing levels of comfort...and when they will take to the streets is when the reasons that their comforts are decreasing are pinpointed and projected...and once that happens it will start the ball rolling to make reforms that will make life better and more sustainable for everyone. That's a sad reality, but a reality nonetheless. The occupy movement didn't happen because of homelessness and addiction. It happened when what used to be a large number of middle class Americans realized that their standard of living was declining and wasn't going to get any better, and would likely continue to decline, unless they spoke out.

The economic situation in Canada is not nearly so different as we might like the think. And, indeed, Harper is clearly determined to emulate the American situation right here.

Was there coordination of the use of riot police? Get real. The US is a country that has over a million people on a no fly list because it suspects people who might know somebody is suspected of knowing somebody who might be a suspect.

There are so many government spies and private contractor spies that even the White House has been unable to give a number.

In corporate bosses, we are seeing some very ruthless people, indeed. In that, we are very like Germany about 1930. And we are reacting largely as the Germans did.

they happily push for mass killing of foreigners to get what they want  (in Vietnam, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Libya... What makes you think they would be nice to us?

I was encouraged this morning when I heard about this response in Toronto hosted by the Design Exchange - going on right now I imagine ... will have to watch for news of outcomes & next steps ...

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/879249/design-exchange-summit-to-bring-together-occupy-protestors-and-leading-thinkers-november-18-at-4-45-p-m

Carolla...I was intrigued to find out more about this when I read your post. Then I went to the Design Exchange's website and discovered that two of their sponsors are TD Bank and Cadillac Fairview Corporation...

aaaand....around and around we go...

who 'should' their sponsors be kimmio??

Credit unions perhaps, co-ops, community fundraising, arts grants...sources not beholden to corporate interests...I don't know the full answer to that, but if we don't separate ourselves from dependence on the banks and corporations that perpetuate the mess we're in...what's the point in even raising the "occupy" discussion? Corporate sponsors have corporate interests...which is to make tons of money and become bigger and more powerful for the benefit of CEO's-- not to care about wealth disparity, low wages, poverty, the environment, etc.

I suppose if we were to look at it as corporations and banks making necessary contributions to the arts, that's a different perspective. However, when non-profits receive funding they usually receive a mandate from their funders...they are not able to make decisions independent of that mandate, and then, out of necessity for funding, they also become part of the machine that is causing the problems in the first place, which is antithetical to solving the problems the world is in. That's just my opinion.

Kimmio I could not disagree with you more.

Speaking as someone who volunteers in a very needy non profit and as one who donates there is great need for individuals and corporations to spread the wealth via sponsorship.

My organization has received funding and there are never, I repeat never strings or obligations.  The only time when there is restrictions is if you ask for money for a particular reason.

For instance when we ask for donations so we can provide bursaries to needy students we need to show through our audit that we did give them.  Not that we chose to use the money for renovations instead.

Corporations, individuals, fundraising groups give money to allow a charity that they believe in to fullfill their mandate.

It is a good thing.

Omigaw'd ...

If we could only get these ideas out there to the corporate process (primarily loched in a conspiricy process of ignorance).

If one reads of the history of corporate Christianity, the same process occurs. Some period of 400 years following around the myth (or story) of the aboriginal Christ ... the officers of the church decided too much information was not good for common folk (nicknamed pagans) so the secrecy acts were inititated. These are much like the human mind that if you really talk a lot about that entity's non-existence you begin to believe it and the soul/mind/psyche departs from you. This was ironically, or satirically referred to as a dead soul in old tongues (La Zarian) of fisherman that would see all the crap that nobility would cast off into the deep blue. Now is deep sixing a thought or just myth?

From an infinite wanderer ... possibly on hajji, or Odysseus that would cause the corporate entity to want my head for asking ridiculous questions and making unclear statements about what was obseved and shouldn't be seen by commoners. It could be bad news to those that they support in piles ... the top of such a pile is usually a good point what I like to call pine'ad logical tree without a clew ... sort of eschato - logical ... like that crap that comes around in the end if you don't look after the whole process. Curiosity is a prerequisite ...

Then one has to consider the indeterminate nature of the untouchable soul ... out of here pondering the backside of the journey. If this is part and parcel of God (as all-inclusive) will there be a backhand effect ... like echo or reflective ego ... a larger awareness that mortals can not embrace for lack of attention to the Golden rule: "doing to others as ..." O, crap not that again?

Is the human processing ability lacking ... like greatly devoid in use of the gift ... the soul thing ... primarily graced with Word? It's a literary device greatly darkened by the church in past millenia. Once set in a'mon's head ... difficult to get out ...

Sort of like the crap of corporate plans. This I know as I have contact with old members of the corporate elite that wondered where I dug up some solutions (sometimes referred to as brilliant as they were buried) to problems that they didn't wish the public (Joe pagan) to know .. it would darkly reflect on the pillars of stele that ALEX spoke of ... if you inspect the tensile words buried there ... be better if they were incased in stone ... so people could learn from mistakes of greed for an eternity. Now in the infinite state of heaven (shamayim) would this create a water grave (pure hell) for those that followed such and earthy path and became aware of it after shedding the surroundings (defined by Webster as intellect in this dimension) but perhaps pure flame of inhibited vision in another dimension .. in version of this one? A bottom's up theosis that folows the first and last premonition ... mnay questions left out to preserve the guilð dead ... tut tut now not too much satyr ... fogs the mir'a ... visual device of what was once oral history ... very, very peculiar to say the least ... about what wasn't revealed!

Some accountability required bottom line ... another string?

The reason the wealth is not spread in the first place is the corporations. How good of them occasially to toss in a free hot dog!

Sorry - soup kitchens, tinkering with parilamentary seats, etc. won't solve the problem.

Either we have democracy or we don't.

Either we have equal opportunity or we don't.

The rest is just arranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

There are usually some, even if  sometimes seemingly minimal restrictions...these corporations get free advertising on websites and in charity's print materials. They get mentioned or are there to present "awards" at functions whereby they receive PR. They get to promote what good corproate citizens they are...drumming up more clients and customers to buy their products, keep governments interested in investing in them or giving them contracts, and keep us locked in a corpratocracy not an elected democracy. Those involved in these procurements, both on the corporate side and on the non-profit side, may not be consciously aware of the big picture, they may not be purposely acting out of any sense of greed..they may be doing it out of an honest desire to do the right thing...but in the big picture it is not good to be completely beholden to corporations running the world...that is the tangled mess we're in.

I don't feel that's a good thing.

Occupy Kingston is getting support — mostly in kind — from small businesses: people who really aren't much advantaged by the "big boys".

Money going to community organizations and charities from corporations always has strings attached - in how one qualifies and in how it benefits the corporations.

These events are not done out of the goodness of the corporate heart, if there were such a thing and there should be since corporations are considered an entity. If there was any caring about society, they would be working with government to acheive communities that are thriving and shaped by the communities themselves.

Instead, corporate money is used to destroy regulations that keep our air, water and land safe. It's used to sue people who take steps to limit corporate power. Corporations pit poor people and community groups working on their behalf against each other.

Running, walking, swimming and other forms of sponsorship for cures for disease - this is what we are forced to do since our universities do not, without corporate involvement, have enough money (because the corporate sector holds sway with those setting government policy that doesn't support the public sector) to do research on behalf of all of us. Most of us are either fighting for a cause that wouldn't need to exist if everyone paid their fair share (education, for example), earning money for research to cure ourselves and our loved ones, working too many hours, busy with entertainment that sedates us into non-action, being fed lies about the world around us and spending the brief glimpse of time that we have on this planet in survival, some of us closer to the edge of that than others.

In my humble opinion, there is nothing benevolent done by corporations - it has self-interest as its primary mandate so one must always ask 'in whose interest is this being done/told?".

As far as whether or not the response has been a coordinated one, here's one article among many that draws that conclusion. I'll leave you to draw your own.

Police State Tactics - Op Ed

"One indication of that coordination may have been a conference call among 18 city mayors which was confirmed by Oakland Mayor Jean Quan in a radio interview on San Francisco station KALW. Dan Siegel, an Oakland attorney who worked as an advisor to Quan, but who resigned in disgust after Oakland police and law enforcement personnel from a number of surrounding jurisdictions brutally drove occupiers there out of their park using tear gas, supposedly non-lethal ammunition (bean bags and rubber bullets) and flash-bang grenades in a night-time raid in the early hours of November 14, says that phone conference call took place, significantly, while Quan was in Washington, DC.

Shortly afterwards, on Oct. 25, Quan authorized the first brutal police assault on Occupy Oakland. It led, among other things, to the critical wounding of Scott Olsen, an Iraq War veteran who was among the protesters, and was hit in the forehead by a police tear gas cannister fired at close range."

Hi Mof5: I agree with you that corporations never have benevolent motives. I do think though, that some of the people working for them think that they do, personally, for they may think they are doing the right thing because they haven't considered that there might be another way, or they haven't considered the broader implications. That is to say that there is often a disconnect between the people conducting business with or on behalf of the corporations and the corporation's ultimate reason for existence.

I agree with that, too, Kimmio. We human beings often find ourselves so immersed in our daily lives that those dots don't get connected or there are other imperatives at play (fear, etc.). That said, it is still the corporate agenda that ends up calling the shots.

Riot squads are necessary when people resist physically.   Do you really believe these Occupy people impressed Canada, Graeme?   I can't believe someone with your intelligence is not more discriminating.  

1) There is not, at the moment, a financial crisis in Canada.  So what are they protesting about?

2) There is a financial crisis in other parts of the world, primarily Europe at the moment, about which the people on this site, although they are gaga for Occupy camps, are totally uninterested in.  I have written about it many times, to zero interest.

Although there is certainly a widening economic gap, these protests have virtually nothing in common with Arab Spring.  The Arabs protesting there were ALL living under long-standing dictatorships.

The movement really started in Spain in the summer, when thousands of unemployed youths (unemployment rate in Spain = 20%, about 40% for the young) started to congregate and protest.  The problem was a severe real estate crash in Spain, fallout from the original 2008 crisis in the US.  

The situation continues to deteriorate in Europe, for those interested.

Whoa!  Talk about stereotyping.  Or perhaps you really believe that not a single person in the upper 1% income bracket earned their money honestly and contributed to society in doing so.  (btw, I am nowhere near the 1% bracket myself).

I am on a rant here.  Haven't been around for a few days.  I would like to say a word about Sweden.  Why is Sweden so prosperous?  Part of the reason is that not only did Sweden sit out WW II as a neutral, it prospered by continuing to export iron ore to Germany throughout the war.

After the war, most of Europe had been sucked dry by the Nazi's (or was in ruins, as Germany was).  Sweden was nicely untouched by Allied bombs or Nazi's, giving them a real head start in the post-war years.  Also, Sweden is small country with a very homogenous population.   Social welfare schemes always work best in homogenous countries, as all people by instinct resent having to finance people "not of their tribe."   It is just human nature and it exists all over the world, and you will never change it, it is deeply embedded in human nature.  

Just something for those constantly harping on Sweden to keep in mind.

My father was a security guard at Mirabel airport on the day it opened. He was looking after a parking section. The crowd was huge, and there had been threats of rioting and bombs.

At the peak of the frenzy,an RCMP officer ran by, shouting, "We've lost control of the crowd."

My father looked over his section of parked cars, shrugged, and said, "my part's okay."

Wheh the rest of the world is falling off the map, Canada is not okay. We will feel the effect in the eonomy - and in war to which we have already had a couple of introductions.

I have known a great many cops. Part of think common among police is that those who demonstrate for aonything are "shit-disturbers" who need to be roughed up. Now, who is going to volunteer to serve on a riot squad? Take that standard type and multiply his worst traits by ten. These are people who like violence. They hate people who "get out of line". They are highly conformist. They distrust anyone who is not.

Ever see riot police used against millionaires? Or against Christian clergy in the US who hold anti-Moslem rallies?

Graeme,

All I know is cops have never bothered me or my family or friends or even anyone I know at second hand.  I admit, I am not one to court controversy in public.

Do they volunteer graeme, or are they just assigned the duty as part of their job? (I am asking because I don't know) The examples of the UC Davis, the  84 yr old woman in Seattle, and some of the  injuries of OWS protesters I find disturbing. On the whole though, North American police are less forceful than they were a few decades ago...they just look scarier in their storm-trooper gear...hoping to intimidate protesters into compliance. At least that's what I think is the case in general. They are using less harmful tactics than, lets say, Kent State--whose police were wearing normal uniforms, but shooting real bullets. That said, I think there are bullying employees and bosses in almost every workforce.

I don't believe the police are bad people on the whole.  I won't believe that they are all cruel and power hungry. They are working people who protect us as necessary. I believe we need them, as long as they don't abuse their power. They have always been helpful to me in an emergency. They are "the 99%" and I believe a lot of them know that. If they are being paid to enforce bad laws, maybe it's up to us to pay attention to ensure the laws passed are fair laws so they are not forced to enforce them in order to make a living...and there will always be a few police who stand up to that too. I saw an interview on TV with a NY cop the other day, who protested in uniform. He refused to clear the area when ordered, and got arrested and taken to jail, showing solidarity for the OWS movement.

And, I might just sound naive...but really, I won't believe that the cops generally wake up in the morning hating the people they are there to protect, and I don't hate them. When there are thousands of people in the streets, and some start shouting and swearing in their faces (not peaceful protesting), it doesn't surprise me that some of them get pepper sprayed and arrested. I wish that people also didn't shout and swear in their face because that's, imo, aggressive behaviour, the kind that could lead to a riot. On the other hand, the UC Davis protesters, who were just sitting on the ground and got sprayed directly in the face at close range...I think that was wrong.

As for clearing the OWS tents. I think everyone knew that was going to happen sooner or later, whether just or not. It was discussed in the MSM since early on. If they paid no attention to the tents, if the tents were just left alone without controversy, maybe the movement itself would not have stagnated and not gained as much attention....just looking for a silver lining here....but it seems to me that the Nov 17th march definately got attention (30.000+ people)  and now things are moving ahead into a new phase.

As I say, I knew a lot of them. (I was pistol instructor of police for a long time.) Police service, naturally enough, attract s people who want status with those who are in authority. In my experience, beatings are quite common. There's a real joy in bossing people around.

The line between a criminal and a policeman has always been thin. I noticed early how police and criminals are both drawn from much the same social backgrounds. I have also know the two to work in close cooperation. There was a time when I could have bought a very cheap set of snow tires, brand news, delivered to my door by police car.

Normally, the choice of riot squad is a voluntary one. You don't volunteer for it if you don't like hitting people.

In the case of Kent State, those weren't riot  squad shooting the students. Those were militia. That's the next step.

Wow, graeme. I am trying to look an the bright side of this...but you really scare me sometimes. I would not have expected the police to say, "Okay. We have thousands of people in the streets. Thousands of people are bound to have a few bad apples, but it's okay. We'll just stand here and do nothing and let them cause a riot."  On the other hand, I think the cops who sprayed the UC Davis protesters should be fired.

If the movement sparked no controversy, it would not have any effect though. It would be just a parade and a camp out. I find it interesting how it took the clearing of the camp to really get things moving forward in NY...the movement has moved onto collge and university campuses, and into foreclosed buildings, and is being organized by innovative and aware students. I really admire New Yorkers for their boldness and resolve. I will never again put down Americans. They really are the land of the brave. It's just that that braveness can go either way! I agree with you there.

During my military experience I learned that a lot is known about crowd control and how to either escalate or diffuse a situation. Yes, these duties attract those who are more into power than collaboration however, they are also under orders from above as to what approach to take. Much of the evidence indicates that they're often not using the methods that calm, rather than incite, those who are protesting.

Excuse my naivete again...but why would they want to escalate it if they want to stop it? it seems that that would just embolden the protest faster if anything. Is it to justify any further force? In past situations, if anything, drastic use of force has swayed public opinion toward the protesters (i.e. civil rights movement). I wish that were not the case, but that's what history shows.

Graeme...I read somewhere that the NYPD are actually the 10th largest army in the world. If that is the case, they haven't been as brutal as one might expect from a large army. Brutal in some cases, nonetheless.