Naman, with tongue in cheek,-  Because we know what we say is true and anything different is myth.

http://www.wondercafe.ca/discussion/religion-and-faith/thoughts-artctic-shamanism

I didn't reread it, but I think this is the one you're referring to crazyheart.  Now off I go!

Thank you chemgal. That was the thread and somegal from canada posed the question.

To continue the question of the original thread - because there's too much confusion about the words "myth" and "truth".  Myths contain truth. Whether they actually happened is beside the point. It's the meaning that matters.

Here's a challenge for you. Let's look at some modern myths - events that are more than just stories about something that happened. What is the truth (meaning) in the following myths:

Man landing on the moon

sinking of the Titanic

assassination of Pres. Kennedy

the Holocaust

atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima/Nagasaki

Trudeau's "walk in the snow"

9/11

(feel free to add you own modern myth to this list)

Thank you spiritbear. Now I get it

For the benefit of those who haven't read that other thread, I am reposting what I wrote:

Thanks, somegal, for posting.

Yes thanks, I wasn't sure if it was the truth or just a myth.

LOL @waterfall!

It's has been my observation that many (not all but many) Christians do in fact believe that their stories are more legitimate than the stories of other religions because they truly believe that they are right, that their stories are the only legitimate ones, and everyone else is wrong, misguided. etc.

as you can see from the thread, its about truth not legitimately

example :

in Christianity the bible teaches we have one life then poof were in front of the Judgement seat ,, (2 Corinth 5:8)

eastern religions teach reincarnation, we come back till we get it right .

now for most people one or the other view makes sense to them, but the question remains, which view is True ?  

Or, bb, the question might be, "What is the truth in each of these understandings?"

Christ's peace - r

i would like to hear it, mind you that is just one example of many, 

another are the exclusivity Jesus clamed 

is that true or are other religions true

both cant be true, mind you , both can be false   

My answer, as an agnostic, is that any answer to this specific question (the nature of the afterlife and whether there even is one) is a matter of faith. We cannot "know" in the empirical or rational sense until we've actually experienced it, we can only believe based on a particular set of faith-based assumptions.

Now, to take this to the broader question of the thread, I would also suggest that all religious knowledge (nature of The Divine, status of Jesus, etc.) are also matters of faith and that myth (non-literal stories) are a part of every religion. They are all "right" to some extent, IOW. But I've discussed this at length in other threads (with blackbelt, even) so I'm going to leave it here.

Mendalla

Personally I believe that stories, myths, sagas, legends can contain truth. 

My personal example:

A few years ago when working with my sister to compile a family genealogy we did research, including talking with elderly relatives.   We were aware of the family history that our great-great grandfather had drowned, leaving a young wife and baby. 

When we questioned an elderly cousin from our mother's generation,  she told us that he had been a sailor, and that the ship he was on 'went down with all hands on board'.   "Yes, yes - there were no survivors.  All hands on board."  She told it like an eye witness, although it would have happened fifty years before she was born and if it sank in the open sea there would be no witnesses. 

Other family history showed his recently remarried widow and infant son came to the area we called home from the Miramichi river area.  Research (a census) showed him living at a logging camp with two other men (one of whom married his widow).   Many people in the family believe that he drowned while on a log drive.

Two very different stories.  The truth - our ancestor probably drowned leaving a wife and baby. 

I believe that every people have a creation story or creation myth., of all being created by the Divine or by something, a force,  figure,  larger than themselves.... So, for me, ours is no more or less than anyone else's.

But to some peoples the other's are alien and you know what we think of the unknown ...

Recall the Samaritan's Tory ... just something all bent out of shape from what the Roman authority would like to hear ... stomp on the wee creature ... finish eM off ... we need strength not thought ... in a human thought is a weak force ... look how easily  the emotions  burst forth from quantum space ... a frothy unknown ...

Thus the Able creature was buried so real people could wander and search for what's not there ... aesthetics?

"Truth" is the Spirit or Spirituality (meaning) and how do we domesticated primates communicate Spirituality to others?  Through myths and stories and legends and such.

Thus, all of the words in the Christian Bible are myths and stories and legends...communicating, to you, over the vast oceans of time, Spirituality.

And the word said we would not know until we understood the tongues of all people ... but certain institutions tell us not to go there ...

It is a grand indeterminate for a mortal ... an enigma to question as all things ... that's all there is to IT ... even says that in our bo'que we call bi*bleu ... like babbling waters ... they can speak to some people of God ... a mover like Ur ... Aquarius? That's fluid not an institution ... sort of like amorphous like base*alt under great heat and pressure ... a rheid to consider ... processing change?

Did you know that a rheid is sort of a GEO logical shift ... like the earth moving through empty space?

Discernment

Is judgement …

Discrimination …

And shrewdness …

Isn’ that the devil of slippery …

Decision maqon (space, dimension), free as Willis!

A Wahl that acts like covenant …

A blank pledge, or promise that might come back at you …

As Canon, echo or even Ego ‘ve germane nature …

If you know the mire of word, and can face IĐ …

That ties this all together as idée, or idealism!

That’s the fixation of man …

The impossible in Cos Moes that’s moving …

Driven by something we didn’t wish to know …

Primal energy, or driving force, 4’sis …

Like one armed paper-hanger with depth …

That’s t^θom in displaced, or dead words …

Like a closed bo’que epi sewed, that’s ID!

‘Saac with sea*muse; stuffed with unknown word …

The containment of the soul of emotion …

A Beautiful Thinker carved in Base-alt …

Like Onyx, that’s black as Þan …

Or Tae, word, on the page like phoenix, smouldering …

That’s the opposition storing information …

Before the rising Pyres that could be mistaken …

Fore ß’ idée’s, integral sum of flamboyancy, Pan ache …

That mystical feeling that comes over one before doing something …

Powerfully emotional without prior thinking …

A’dam that plugged Eve with delight …

We now call Don …

An expression for hole in anything …

Even nothing, like abstracts, or imaginary mental acts …

Being there is no such thing as mined …

Dwelling in the brae’n!

Perhaps it is just a collective of fey, flighty, or bedevilling words …

From whoa man …

Asha dhow personality as mire vessel …

Or wormhole in space that can work into your life through …

Emotional activity; the wake in of chi …

Like RIP*eL, or ðΛ …

Light on the fly, differentially, aD …

A sum above, or overhead!

In Complex World of word one does require the ability to disseminate …

Even eliminate some thoughts as system of give and take, net working!

Some like the learning end and don’t do anything with it …

As processing, or loosed thought, a frayed appearance of gheist …

Like free Methodism in the emotions that’ll come back at chi …

The hot thing in th’ Saac we call the travelling soul …

Going round and round as Pêré ſ weal …

Iphe yah don’t know to stay clear of the chaos …

On both sides of that point, that’s a line …

When drawn without, pas, or san, anon Y mouse …

Beyond, or like the understanding of myth …

Mined that is just far too big for a mortal to encompass as infinite Circe …

Solis in God’s impossible dream as his other side works like the devil in dark Ness, Shadow’s poe’L, indeterminate!

Hi crazyheart,

I think that the qualifier "Christianity" introduces a red-herring.

I also think that relegating such discourse to the field of "religion" introduces another red-herring.

The difference is difference.  "We" whomever we are are different than "they" whoever they are.  Wherever the element of we/they appears this particular aspect of dialogue is never far away.  Essentiall "we" are smart, honest, good and all attributes decidedly positive while "they" are dumb, dishonest, evil and all attibutes decidedly negative.  The more entrenched the "we/they" aspect is the more extreme opinions of the other are.

Truth is a good thing that is why "we" has it and "they" doesn't.

And then we compound techincal meanings of the word "myth" with common useage and in so doing misunderstand and misrepresent what is being said with what is imagined to be said.  We will compound that problem by defensive and reactionary responses or appeals to elements the "we" embrace and the "they" will not because it once again reaffirms how good "we" is and how bad "they" is.

It isn't limited to the religious.  Check out how Republicans and Democrats talk about each other.

Grace and peace to you.

John

This is a very interesting and respectful debate so far - thank you! I try to look at other religions with open eyes and open ears. I have a co-worker who belongs to the Baha'i faith community and he has told me that he believes there are many paths to the same God - that all religions have something worthy to offer. I agree with this statement wholeheartedly.

In the Christian book we are told to take some interest in alien tongues ... other's stories ... but we are told not to go there by hot Ayres authority ... it's a bust ... no one really reads the bible and what's hidden between the far rows ... by definition ... myth ... that's beyond a mortal ... like d'athe in Hebrew ... pure wisdom!

Sorry I've been off-line for a few days ... my computer was wandering about my anony meuse non sense ...

Ours is more legitimate. Ours is the truth. Of course, it should be noted that according to at least one source that I read while researching my school project, most of the Inuit these days have accepted our truth. Most are now Christians themselves.

Welcome back, Jae.

Are Inuit now Christian because their true natural spirit is destroyed by the greed of Western Theology ... the urge to survive is great inthe anima ... thus animus withers!

In psychology it is called dilution of authority; in support systems that grow too extensive ... we believe the significant other will do all for us without our lifting a finger ... except in authority. Isn't that a humbling thought? Then some authorities would tell you not to go there ... in the realm of thought you cannot succeed in physical wealth ... is there another kind of treasure?

The traditional Inuit religion, as I came to learn, was one based on fear. They were afraid of the spirits (which they thought were everywhere and in everyone and everything) and thus sought to appease them through rituals and taboos. The Christian religion, on the other hand, is one based on love. I think it's wonderful that the Inuit have largely embraced the latter.

That would entirely depend how one portrays Christianity.  I have heard many an altar call that was based on nothing more than fearmongering.  And were the sources whihc described the traditional religion written by Christian observers or by people well-versed in and practitioners of the traditional religion.  Christian writers have a very bad record when it comes to describing other religions in anything other than negative terms.

Of the reference works I used, several had  Canadian, British and/or American authors with English-sounding names. I don't recall that any of them stated their own religious affiliation.

Other works were written by authors such as Tulimaaq Aupilaarjuk, Lucassie Nutaraaluk, Rose Iqallijuq, Johanasi Ujarak, Isidore Ijituuq, Michel Kupaaq, Mariano Aupilaarjuk, Peter Suvuksiuq, Felix Pisuk, Pujuat Tapaqti, Levi Iluittuq, Luke Nuliajuk, Ollie Itinnuaq, Jose Angutinngurniq, Victor Tungilik, and Rachel Uyarasuk.

I reject the suggestion that I did not consult reference works written by representatives of the Inuit community. 

Why is it a Roman once said that a thinking man is dangerous?

Then someone came up with the corollary that salvation was in the light ... or is that delight of Gnu 'n something ... anything at all?

Can you imagine authority teaching pagans in an alien tongue ... la Tin Ego? It can be kicked about and dinted ... pock marks of learning and wisdom. Did you ever look an old witch in the face, or a whirl-wolf ... a logical loupe in some past myth ... it has dimples and recesses! Like a fine old fat Laid-E as chi ... the internalized pyre. Could break out as emotion at any time due to abuse and pore rendering of the gift ... gamaliel! It is a spacey thing-heh ...

That'sol' as I see IT; but don't tell anyone ... they'd never believe such an expanse within ... convoluted space? Recesses meant for eKos ... that's ego in germane tongue ... one has to know 65 varieties to understand English Spins .. James Joyce ... or Joy's "c' in a splash of words ... dark pool ... Ness?

Did you know that Joe or Joie is an emissive Love that is shut out in a Wahl building man ... isolationist in Hebrew dialexis ... once known as mahaineim or island treasure toby studied for learning about how not to do things like they did in biblical times. Then Hood ah known that when the story is kept buried or slipped into a cover ... lam skin ... relative or alchemy of the Shadow ... Ham in Judah 'n tongue ... that few remember after King James' put down of alien tongues as enemy to the British Crown ... a thorn in the Erin as is ... that's existentialism ... that Piscine in the pool ... bare beiting to show ominous creatures the unreal feeling opposing pain of learning ... forgetting all for an instant of heaven ... where Love children come from ... daemon's of Gods? The underworld churns at the stoop Idée-ite of ID eL ... overhead onyx ... dark oblivion of thought as a symbol of need to being aware of what might come back at sha ...

Ominous creatures? That's stoop ID -ite at it's prime in the soup ... primal chaos? You never know what comes up in a quick stir ...

MC,

I wasn't intending to object to the quality of your research.  In fact until fairly recently it was difficult to find sources on native religious practices written by practitioners of the same.

While I agree Morning Calm that Judeo-Christian religion is based on love rather than fear, there are many references in our Bible and an active thread on the Cafe right now that discusses the Fear of the Lord.   And many Christians here agree that the fear of the Lord is a good thing.  Certainly much of the book of Revelation shows a violent and vengeful God. 

I won't argue with you concerning Inuit religion - I know nothing or next to nothing about it.  But not all of Christianity is sweetness and light, and I'm afraid that many of the early missionaries, and the residential schools emphasized fear and punishment.

Fair enough my friend.

Most of the works I found written by the Inuit authors were published 1999-2002 by Nunavut Arctic College.

Not all are practitioners of the traditional Inuit religion. Some are now Christians, others do not state their religious affiliation.

I can't say I'm an expert on it. There is so much more I could learn. I have had a glimpse in the store window, so to speak, but I have yet to actually enter the shoppe. I agree that Christians have not always acted in good ways, and I believe that far too often missionaries went to far -- trying to change the entire culture they had been sent to. I can't speak on the issue of residential schools.

To me, "fear of the Lord" involves reverent respect for God. I see this as being a different thing than the way the Inuit used to relate to the spirits in their religion -- I believe they were actually afraid of them. I must admit I say that as an outsider, however my readings written by both outsiders and the Inuit themselves would suggest this is true.

If anyone would like to read more about Inuit religion and it's relationship with Christianity I recommend the following...

."Interviewing Inuit Elders: Cosmology & Shamanism, ISBN 1-896-204-384"

"Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit: Shamanism and Reintegrating Wrongdoers into the Community. ISBN: 1-896204-56-2"

"Inuit Perspectives on the 20th Century: The Transition to Christianity. ISBN: 8-896-620-4422"

Why is it that you think that our religion is more legitimate? I would think that if you would talk to someone who practices a traditional Inuit religion that they would say their religion is the most legitimate - same thing if you spoke with a Muslim, Buddhist or Sikh person.

In your research did you discover any of the reasons that most Inuits are now christians? What percentage of them practice Christianity on a regular basis versus what percentage practice their traditional religion regularly?

It brings to mind this question . can one practice both Christianity and  Inuit religion at the same time. I know a United Church minister who practices both Christianity  and First Nations teachings. She is First Nation.

Apparently many of the First Nations leaders in this area have no trouble practicing native spirituality and Christianity.   We have had them do the sweet grass ceremony in our church. 

At one time the challenge of understanding Aboriginal Spirituality in countries such as Canada and Austrailia and was that much of it had been lost/forced away.  A few years back, when First Nations Spiritual practices were becoming "cool" I remember folks from that community asking Euro-Canadians to back off and let the First Nations community re-discover the traditions for themselves. 

I am not sure how that stands now in terms of understanding the traditional beliefs and practices without European overlay.  I hope that the teachings of the Elders have been allowed to come back into a deeper understanding.