My brain hurts

I think that very often truth leads to unhappiness.

Ultimate truth leads to ultimate happiness.

"What is truth?" Pilate asked Jesus.

I don't know what Jesus answered, but I know what I would answer to such a question:

All analytical or conceptual truth is necessarily relative to the observers's viewpoint, which is arbitrarily chosen by the observer. Relativenss is an essential aspect of the method of analysis. The ultimate reality or truth which we experienced in the pure uncoceptualized experience of reality is not relative.

Ultimate reality is not relative, only the method of analysis renders it relative to the viewpoint of the analyzer or observer, and this viewpoint is arbitrarily chosen by the observer. Thus, conceptual truth is arbitrarily chosen by the observer and not ultimately true.

Ultimate Truth can only be experienced—and is being experienced—in the pure, unconceptualized experience. Any conceptualization thereof is relative and no longer ultimately True.

As I said above, the experience of ultimate Truth leads to ultimate Happiness.

Jesus said, " I am the Truth " it is intresting to note that Jesus did not say , I speak the truth but that He is the Truth itself, a clame to deity.

What a load .....

Hi BB:

When Jesus said "I am the Truth" he could well have meant that Truth is in the pure experience, in pure being, as I said in my post.

Damn, you're one tough guy to be able to say all that while nailed up on a cross!  I've gotta say, I would not have the endurance.

Chanting nonsense syllables is one way to rise above the pain.

Actually,"I am the Truth" says it all. But, as you see, this simple but profound statement is wide open to (mis)interpretation.

   True happiness -Do we really know what it is.?Human happiness is an emotion and tends to come and go with our current situations . When we become truly spiritual --united with Jesus happiness and joy which is in our hearts is no longer emotional it is stable and sustains us through all current situations and trials we encounter  .

  You can Trouble your Trouble with true spiritual happiness and as I call it Jesus Joy.You always have a way out of every bad situation and trial you encounter.   

  Blessings   

IS "being happy" really what we are supposed to be aiming at?

And what does that mean?

Assuming that Truth brings control?

Truth is - WE HAVE NO CONTROL. We like to think we do, and that's the illusion that gets us through the day. 

Accepting that we have no control often depresses people. So no, i don't think ultimate truth brings ultimate happiness.

Ignorance is bliss. Truly

Footprints, I agree with you.

The more I know, the more melancholy I become. The more I wonder about, the happier I feel.

 "I am the truth", I think we could all say that. We are all the truth, not that that brings happiness.

There is an inner peace you can find, and if that brings you happiness, go with it.

Hi Elanorgold:

When I say "happiness" that's what I mean: "contentment" or "inner peace," which one can have even when sad.

Happiness is a sad song.

-Charlie Brown

I agree.  It's hard to make oneself ignorant though.  It's kind of like unbreaking an egg.  I find as I get older, that illusion of control gets ever weaker.  My sense of humour has improved though, and I amuse myself with that. 

Now watch -- some Pollyanna with a facile lecture about how to make myself ignorant and attain happiness will find me......

A girl just can't wallow in her misery without someone spoiling it.

Then I don’t think there accepting it.

Looking at it and wishing the truth was different depresses people. People depress people, not a lack of control.

So it’s an issue with the person themselves, not truth.

I don’t mean that you agree with the truth about any particular thing, you can still aspire to change and

Enhance things if you will.

But regardless of whether or not you resist it, you do not resist that it is as it is. You do not make it a personal insult that it defies the way you think things should be.

You are right, we have no, or at most, very limited, control over our world. But we do have control over ourselves, and how we react to it and in it.

People who get angry when things don’t go there way are frustrated at there lack of control.

People who get sad believe that a lack of control can lead only to misery. They believe that parting from the way they think things should be will lead only to "bad". Witch is ironic because its only the belief that it can only lead to misery that makes you miserable. They believe that they can never be quite as much as they wanted, And therefore, that they lack something.

I don’t think we should take personally things we cant control. Because there is nothing personal in it, unless you put something there.

The desire to control something is a desire to make yourself feel complete by it.

People think completeness comes from the aim of desire. When you say "I want that" you’re trying to find yourself in it.

Happiness comes when you think you’re complete, not the other way around. The world cannot make you feel complete

And yet you can still find happiness/peace/fulfillment. But since its not the world making you complete, its you, meaning that you are complete without it.

"There’s an illusion that you are lacking something."

With desire, we are seeking something that is supposed to give us a sense of peace, a sense of "its all right". To make us complete and fine.

Maybe the truth about your completeness is the same about the truth of any other thing. That it is not. As in, you do not need to be fulfilled or completed on that such deep level, because that duality doesn’t exist.

Mabye...

Thanks, I like that.

Ninjafaery, Chuckle, chuckle. ; )

Whew, CW. That was a mouthful. To be completely honnest I'm not sure where to go with this discussion. The more i try to formulate a thought about all this the more confused about the topic i realize i am. Are we debating control, truth, inner-peace? If Truth is relative, then there is no real truth and so it has no bearing on happiness. If Happiness depends on control, then there cannot be any happiness because we have no control. Even ourselves, we think we can control, but who consciously chooses their mood before choosing how to act upon it?

I'm not sure where i stand on this discussion anymore. lol. really. For me, Truth is reality, and reality sucks. We need to find happiness and innerpeace despite what the world has to offer - like a belief, unwavering and biased in the face of core evidence to the contrary. Just accept what you've got, ignore the truth about the rest, and you'll find bliss in your ignorance.

"...If Truth is relative, then there is no real truth and so it has no bearing on happiness..."
 

I think you said it there Footprints.

I guess the "truth" we are talking about is the truth about truth, that it is relative and therefore doesn't really exist. The truth is that truth doesn't exist. No thing is set, and only is some thing when we decide it its.
 

The second part is control of the world... that we do not have it.

And third that even when nothing has any meaning happy or sad, we can still feel happy or sad. And even though we have no control over our world, we can still feel happy.

It would seem that happiness doesn't come from control over things because happiness doesn't come from things, because everything is empty. And yet feeling is still felt, witch lead me to guess that the reason your happy is because you decided that you could be because of certain circumstances that you believe are required to allow it.
 

Simply, you are incomplete and forever looking to for fulfilment because you decided that you are incomplete.

BUT i think people are fulfilled. there are people who's lives are filled with love and peace, security and Friends, or anything ells. and i think they can look at there lives and say "I am complete". And they would be, but only because they decided they are. When a tragedy strikes, and a loved one dies, they'll decide that they can not be at peace or complete because this happened. Its still them deciding. it still them believing they need a reason to be complete. that they need something to be to be complete.

I guess its. you don't need anything to be complete unless you first decide/believe that completion exists and you don't have it.

It can paint an odd picture when you think of a person true to this might create. Someone who just sits and withers away smiling. But it also paints a picture of a person who is free, unafraid and selfless. a person who still has things they'ed like, but instead of them being needs, they are just preferences, with nothing personal at stake in anything, giving them pure, focused action and intention.

... and yeah.

Thanks for commenting by the way, all of you.

I think truth leads to happiness more often than lies do.

THat would depend on your definition of happiness jon.  There is an entire industry (or even an entire economic system) devoted to leading us to happines through a complex set of half-truths and un-truths.  Oh and the same could be said about our political systems where telling the hard truths is often seen as foolish or self-defeating.

GordW,

but the industries do not endorse happiness, they endorse the illusion of happiness through their mass control. The economic and political systems actually prey on our fears to make it look like they are our salvation. There is nothing of joy or happiness in the industries that control our society. Nobody says "I'm happy with the way our systems work", only "well, it's better than some other place in the world..." which is really saying it sucks, but it's all we've got.

actually Truth leads to God

"Does living morally make you happy?"
Good question. No, it dosent. Some people can live moraly, and it brings great happiness, but its not because its moral. Because then anuther lives imoraly and finds happiness. Its not the morality or imorality that does anything. Because the idea of morality is relitive, and so nothing. It can be just a dangerus title that divieds people, and therfore, in the most intelectual use of the word i am able of, it can be a tool of evil.

BUT to take the question around that word, if to be moral to you is being kind to others, as it is for many, then id say yes. Peopl seam to wahnt to live by eachothers happiness rather than there greif, though i have not thought of why ... Mabye somthing to do with the duelisum and silmularity of of good, love, harmony and evil, hate, isolation.

A good point was brought up there, about the difference or simularity of God and happyness. I do think truth leads to happiness/joy more than lies do. And i do think truth leads to happiness/god/peace/fullfullment/freed ultimately aswell.

"our system" seams to work of of desire. it promusses you, "if you have THIS, everything will be alright". Witch is a lie, and of corse leads us to keep looking and keep getting things. Trying to fill a cup with smoke, it dont last long. but i think we all know this, even if we indulge anyway.