This just barely scratches the surface of grief.  In fact I believe that it is a mockery.

We all know that "bad things happen to good people" we all know that "rain falls on the just and the unjust"

Nobody asked God to be a genie in a bottle or a fairygodmother.  I certainly did not.  God even contradicts his own Bible.

It is always in the power of God's hand to good yet he witholds it constantly.

As my mom always said .... "Consider the source" - Crabb is a "Christian/Biblical Counsellor" so you'll get that slant on things.  If you don't like his posts, or find them aggravating why not unsubscribe?

Personally, I don't hold your belief that God gives or withholds.   I believe God's love is there for us, whether we see/feel it or not.  Sometimes we're more easily able to receive, other times not so much.

To me, God is the totality of being, in an all-unitive state of synthesis. When we humans experience God, then this experience is powerfully unitive, uniting us with everyone and everything—and, of course, with God. For us humans, the overwhelming emotion accompanying such an experience is unitive love. Unitive love, in theory and practice, is the epitome of goodness.

But the totality, having created all dualities, is ITself beyond dualities.

Actually I REALLY liked that. I thought it was very good and very insightful and on point. I will try and remember it.

God is awareness of all things .. created and destroyed by forgetfullness!

In the beginning was the mystery and then a spark of recognition and the isolated ones didn't wish to know so creation set them aside in a place where they could forget they were Gods and should look after all of creation. Is this why man cannot travel in space without bean nuked into brae'n tumult ... Ka 'n Sere'n the g'dhed?

Can one approach this state of knowing here? One has to knock on the whole logic tree, cosmological awareness. Man hates the shadow under such a place, so much knowledge is blocked in reality ... but all the lesser gods. Look that term up in your dictionary under daemon, or demon ... a very illuminating expression ... Luciferous to those that lean to their loves alone without a thought for thae ther. Isn't that a devilish pondering of the depths of the pool ... upends your entire understanding on this side of reality!

The lower end of the Daed Sea Rift is where they found Lucy's remains ... strange coincidence at the head waters of the Nile ... ephemeral presence ... one dark laid Ê? It is a three-tiered existance with two connections ... soul and spirit? Such is the Greek litter "chi" ... in a more ancient expression of fire ... light out of a tree ... thanks to the great carpenter? (carrier of fish in myth ... Pisces ... infinite gurgling, baba-lon) 

Then there is that old command about giving reverence to your God ... while allowing for the other's sense of God ... it could be a different perspective of inner space ... cone a ' volute shin ... another leg to stand upon! Pi Lars of the earth they say ... the understudies of wisdom buried by m'n in non-recognizance of the word created by the whole thing ... that's the tongues of all men ... one should learn more! 

If creation in some abstract form jambed all this dirt together would there be a blast from the discenters who wished to stay on the fringe ... hori Zoan lost ... without the whole thing in mind? It is perhaps just a temporal mental block to rest the sole of Gods intergration ... growth?

Serena, what you posted reads like it's some kind of devotional email. If that is the case, what would you expect them to do but to do things like quoting from popular Christian authors and from the Bible itself? What would you have had them say as an alternate?

Perhaps call it like it is.  "Shit happens".  We cannot and do not understand.  There is nothing to understand.  It happens.

God is there to see us through not give us the world on a silver platter.

Shalom

Mate

Serena, if you don't lilke the tone of the emails, unsubscribe rather than be annoyed by it.

I am sure that they help some people.

You are struggling with your grief.  I found solace in a grief group, my minister, many poems i read.

You need to find what will work for you.  Have you tried a grief group?

The thing that worked for me was that i was able to let out my grief and talk about it with the group.  No one expected me to be over it.

You have had alot with both your parents dying in the past couple of years.  Get some help to get through it.  Arrange a counselling session with yoru minster and tell him how you feel.  That you doubt God, that you are angry.  Let it out

That pretty much sums up my philosophy of life on Earth:  Shit Happens.   I don't mean it in a derogatory sense towards God, rather to our fallen world that we must live in.

*** 

In a different tone, when we lost our first baby,  the verse:

Blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Finally made sense to me.  I couldn't figure that one out because lets' face it, mourning is a person's least favorite part of life I am sure.   So the blessing isn't in the mourning, it is in God's amazing gift of comfort.  Our family has personally felt wrapped up in the warmth of God's love and presence as we mourned the loss of our little ones

May you be able to feel God's peace wrapped around you, Serena.

I don't know.  I think they feel like lets pretend fairyland.

There is no grief support group in my town.  I have talked to my minister.

I think that this was the last straw with one of my friends.  SHE asked how the legal situation was between my siblings and I.  I started to tell her and then she interrupted me and said "well your brother is just being silly" and proceeded to tell me about her housework.   I can't stand people who talk about HOW they do their housework as if it is anything at all important.

I have already done this.  It did not help. 

I don't know the answer but a stupid Bible verse is not the answer.

What about a smart Bible verse.

Perhaps the best would just be the experience of God's presence and love.  We can find this in those around us who understand but don't try to make it "better".  What can one say at a funeral home but I'm here for you and with you.

Shalom

Mate

I lost a baby sister.  That was hard enough but what must it do to a parent?  Then the most wonderful pastor told my parents at her funeral that she must have died because the had some unconfessed sin.  Wonderful Christian that? eh?  She was born with spina bifida.  My mother took that pain to her grave. 

Shalom

Mate

Serena, why don't you talk to the minister about starting a grief group. 

Our minister does one for about 6 weeks or so, meeting each week and it ends with an evenign service of remembrance.

There will be others out there struggling with grief.

Or call your mental health clinic.

I think friends dont' understand until they lose a parent.  I know I didn't .  I more or less thought  "well usre it's your mom but she was old so it ok".  Of course once i lost my dad and now my mom, i realised how totally wrong that was.

If there are no groups at all, in the community at the various churches, then you have books.  There are many that can help you.  Ask the minister.  In general this is an area that ministers excell at.  They do so many funerals and help with so much grief that they are pretty skilled listeners.  Ask for weekly counselling with the minister if all else fails.

That sounds like par for the course.  Rather than asking God WHY HE allows such pain lets dump on the victim/griever in the name of God.   If God had a problem with the pastor doing this than why did He not make that known?

My Church does not do anything.   I doubt there will be a grief group.  All the energy goes into this stupid entertainment ministry.

None of my friends have lost a parent.  I think they think I am over it and are hassling me to go to Bible study with them.

I have read the grieving books.  They pretty much tell me to do w hat the counsellor said.   "join an exercise program, get a hobby, fix yourself up (new hairstyle/cut/ manicures, pedictures) be good to yourself...eat healthy and get massages.  One exception is that one of the grieving books suggested that I have a baby and name the baby after my dead parent.  I have not done that.

Serena, there is help out there.  Perhaps your town doesn't have groups or clinics but there is the minister.  Call and go in to meet with him/her.  Ask for an hour to tell him what is troubling you.

They deal with death all the time.  He can help.

Or call the hospital.  Ask to speak to someone in mental health about grief.

I know that counsellors sugget activity.  It is because they want to help you re-enter into "life" rather than sit alone with "death".

Instead of all the pricey things they want you to do, what do you want to do?  To really do.

Do you like where you live?

Would it be better to sell adn move?

do you need to be close to your sister?

would you be better off renting the house, taking a year and teaching english in Korea or something ?

Do you like the career changes you have made?

.........

What about a simple goal for a week.

ie

this week i will go for a walk in the park/neighbourhood for an hour each day.  I will listen to an album I like on my Ipod ( or walk in silence) and just relax into the sound of my feet accompanying the music.

Healing is baby steps.

Serena

I know I'll probably make you angry. I shouldn't post.

I believe you should try to believe in God again. I don't mean the God of the bible in a literal sense. God is bigger than the bible. The bible and all of the old holy books are one aspect of God or the way people imagined God years ago. There is some  truth in them but I wish you could see God as being bigger or more than......if you could see God as being the energy in the whole world flowing through people in a good way or use adjectives to describe God as everything that is good.  God or good is in people even tho' it may not seem like it right now. I'd love it if you could over the idea that God is some monster pushing a button that causes people pain. This is a false idea of God IMHO. You seem to have decided in black and white that this defines God. You know what I mean but you aren't open to hearing different ideas or perceptions of God. I'm sorry about that. I do hope that in time you'll get there.

I don't believe it helps you to go around saying you are an atheist  or arguing about the God in the bible. I'd love to see you let it go and move on up higher. If you can't pray to God just pray to the universe like Gretta Vosper does. Prayer is positive in that you are putting out hope that things will get better....even if it feels like you're only talking to yourself. I believe in God with or without church, ministers etc. I believe God is the very living source of life so when you cut yourself off you lose .

You have to consider that a true  atheist  ( if such really exists)  you may meet or attract to yourself  re your present beliefs feels obligated to please only himself or herself.  There are atheists with good morals and atheists with low or no  morals. In life you attract not those you wish to attract but those who are like yourself re relationships.

End of rant you won't appreciate. Sorry. As you know I lost my husband of 46 years last year. I'm working hard to see my life now as a new beginning.....starting over...its all new to me. I haven't been single since I was about 22 when I met my husband.  I see myself not as a widow but as a person with a life to live. You are fortunate to have had parents to care for you all these many years. I don't know what that means. I didn't have a dad and I saw very little of my mother when I was growing up. We're different  I know.

I was on my own at age 17 in Toronto  and I learned to be strong with God's help of course. You too....give yourself time.....you'll learn to be strong and depend on your own resources. God is very close to you right now when you are broken hearted. I read a book that said it is mostly the broken hearted who seek God. They have no place else to turn. God sees your tears and they are precious. God is energy, constantly moving and moving forward. You are in God like the droplets are a part of the ocean  so you too can move forward and you will.

Prayers for you Serena and may God send angels to protect you always and keep you safe from harm.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Serena )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Back on My Feet Again

Serena

 by Katherine estelle eveningstar

Here is a poem I like from the Star:

In Memory of Your Mother:

You can close your eyes

And pray that she will come back

Or you can open your eyes

And see all that she has left.

Your heart can be empty

Because you can't see her

Or you can be full of the love

That you shared.

You can turn your back on tomorrow

And live yesterday

Or you can be happy for tomorrow

Because of yesterday.

You can remember her

And only that she is gone

Or you can cherish her memory

And let it live on.

You can cry and close your mind

Be empty and turn your back

Or you can do what she would want

Smile, open your eyes, love and go on.

Serena,

How old are you?

I'm just asking because there's a program called Comfort Zone, created for children and young adults who have lost someone close to them. When my father died my sister was 14, and she's attended this weekend camp program every summer since. She feels it's well done, allows children and young people to grieve together in an environment where everyone can relate and understand each other's pain. It's full of activites to talk about the deceased, talk about ways to remember them over the years, and just have fun at the same time. A lot of vulnerability turns into strength in knowing you're not alone.

Anyways. I thought I'd suggest it, if not for you, for someone in your family who might benefit from it. It's a camp run by counselors who've been there - my sister wants to become on of the camp counselors once she's too old to attend as a participant - and it's gaining popularity.

I hope you find your way through this mess. The fact that you face your pain shows how strong and courageous you are. Keep it up, you will find your way - the grieving process is an incredibly long one, and although time heals all wounds, the scars stay with us for life. xo Good luck.

Serena: your quote:

I think that this was the last straw with one of my friends.  SHE asked how the legal situation was between my siblings and I.  I started to tell her and then she interrupted me and said "well your brother is just being silly" and proceeded to tell me about her housework.   I can't stand people who talk about HOW they do their housework as if it is anything at all important.

Being overly sensitive and jumpy is part of the grief process. We definitely aren't at our best during this time. Still.....if we expect others to listen to us we have to listen to them too. Would you agree?  Possibly your friend didn't feel able to deal with your situation as you explained it so she changed the subject. We all do this at times. I'm sure you've done it too. You probably  don't like hearing about housework at the best of times. You'd change the subject if you could.

Not all of us are strong enough to deal with certain situations. We need to make allowances for other people too, take the bad with the good. Otherwise we'll be alone for sure. I know people who go on for hours about their illness, family illness, and operations etc. I don't like it but the person obviously has a need to talk about it so I listen and try to have  patience. Other talks with the person are often brighter and better. Its the same person.

Hi Serena ... sounds like you're in that grumpy angry stage at the moment ... nothing much going right and ain't nobody gonna make it better no way.   Just pisses you off more when people try.  Been there, done that.  This too will pass.  Try not to alienate everyone in the meantime, so there are still a few folks in your life when you're ready to be social again.   Thinking of you.

Great posts folks.  AMEN.

Shalom

Mate

serena

Why didn't God deal with that so called pastor?  I for one do not  believe that God works that way.

I left that church long before I knew about the funeral incident.  My mind and my heart told me that this church was not of God, that evil resided there.  A few months before my father passed away he told me of the funeral.  The point I make is, for me, that I did not believe what I was being taught there was the message I read in the Bible.  I decided that something as old as Christianity had to have more going for it then that.

I chose to go on a search and went to university where I studied OT and NT translation and interpretation as well as Biblical history.  That is history as presented in the Bible or what little is there.  The message was right but the way I was taught was wrong and I knew it.  The more I studied the more and stronger my faith got.

Since then I've studied and continue to study at the Vancouver School of Theology along with the history of the Bible as a book with all of its redactions and additions and deletions.  It is not the inerrant and absolute word of God but like all good literature it speaks to us in other ways.  In this case I believe that God speaks to us through the very human words of the Bible and I would add the great writings of the great spiritual leaders from all of the great faiths including those not yet published.  I do not engage in biblolatry. 

May the Holy one bless you on this and every part of your journey.   Glad to have bumped into you along the way.

Shalom

Mate

Hey carolla;

Some things just can't be fixed.  Yes, I am grumpy and miserable right now.

I realize that this advice is well meaning but it is very bad.   I approached a minister in November when I suspected my mother was going to die.  I wanted to talk.  He told me that he was too busy and that I should grow up.   Ministers are good at inventing some sin so that you have asked for your grief and don't mind telling you that you totally deserve everything that you are getting.   I am not setting myself up for that again.  That kind of "help" I can do without.   So to everyone THIS is very bad advice.  If you have a problem STAY AWAY from ministers.   It will be better for you.  They are too busy, don't care, and deal in guilt.

I am very comfortable with death.

Nothing.  I am not interested in anything.

I don't know.

I can't sell the house until the will is settled and that could take awhile.  That part of my life is in limbo.  I must keep the house exactly as my mother left it.

No.  I don't want to be close to my sister.

I do not want to be committed to anything for a year.

I think so.

Thanks.  I don't feel strong or courageous.

I am too old for the Comfort Zone.   I feel like I am about 100 right now.

Hi Serena:

When I was sad, someone consoled me: "There is light at the end of the tunnel."

"No, not when it's dark out there," I replied.

The train, however, is capable of generating its own light, not only to see its way through the perpetual darkness of the tunnel but also through the temporary darkness outside.

Your train of thought is capable of generating its own light. Let it!