Well, that just about does it for the United Church. This guy has an open-and-shut case against the UCCan. This video will surely go viral, just as the video author's last video did, when he pretended to be a Jedi knight battling with his broomstick light sabre.
revjohn
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:04
Hi waterfall,
waterfall wrote:
Is that SB?
I don't believe so. I think StephenBooth claimed to be middle-aged.
He did have a profile that claimed he was much younger but he was very insistent that he was not that young.
Grace and peace to you.
John
revjohn
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:10
Hi RevMatt,
RevMatt wrote:
He says such great things about us, this ad makes me very proud to be UCC.
I'm somewhat torn on this.
First, just to be clear, I am not dismayed about any allegation that the video lays against us. I think the young man is either deliberately misrepresenting the beliefs of the Church or he is woefully ignorant about how The United Church of Canada states its beliefs.
It could be both of course.
In the end, I guess I feel sadder for this earnest believer and the junk he clings to than I am prouder of what he rejects.
As far as this being good advertising for us, well, that remains to be seen.
Grace and peace to you.
John
BetteTheRed
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:11
Don't the sheep ever get a bit offended at being so designated?
It is funny; the arrogance is a little annoying. OTOH, I just finished watching Client 9, and hubris is a harsh teacher.
GordW
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:12
revjohn wrote:
Hi waterfall,
waterfall wrote:
Is that SB?
I don't believe so. I think StephenBooth claimed to be middle-aged.
He did have a profile that claimed he was much younger but he was very insistent that he was not that young.
Grace and peace to you.
John
Also this video has actual content and personal opinion shared. Even if it is an interesting interpretation of what is being read. I mean objecting to "who works in us and others by the Spirit"????
revjohn
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:17
Hi Gang,
The creator of the video under review is one Jeremy Gardiner. Not likely to be our Stephen Booth.
They seem like they would get along though.
Grace and peace to you.
John
chansen
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:20
Blind date?
somegalfromcan
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:23
Thanks for sharing that Matt - it was definitely good for a chuckle! I am wondering, however, why this guy has such an axe to grind against the United Church. I am also noticing that he does not allow for messages to be posted.
revjohn
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:26
Crap!
He appears to be a Calvinist.
Why do all the nutbars play on my line?
Grace and peace to you.
John
Berserk
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:30
blackbelt wrote:
I think the main point of the video is,,,,
Is Jesus the only way, or are other faiths just as valid
I agree with you (against Witch) that this is the main point of the video. The video fails to do justice to the biblical doctrine of general revelation as opposed to special revelation (e. g. through Christ). The video gives voice to those in our region who would create a similar caricature of my church and denomination (United Methodist). i also agree with Jim Kenney that the video might energize a good discussion about UCC distinctives and, in that respect, it might be transformed into good promotional material for the UCC. But as it stands, it is harmful to the UCC in one respect: it portrays the UCC as doctrinally wishy washy and needs a response in terms of the UCC's position on the mandate and urgency of Jesus' Great Commission in Matthew 28:16-20.
chansen
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:57
Matthew 28:16-20 wrote:
16Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Well that has always worked out swimmingly. How could anyone not follow those directions?
BetteTheRed
Posted on: 03/10/2011 16:06
The other thing I don't understand is why he feels compelled to paint the entire UCC with one brush? It's as unfair to those in the pews who have legitimate, orthodox Christian views as it is to those of us whose views do indeed tend to the more universalist.
blackbelt
Posted on: 03/10/2011 16:19
BetteTheRed wrote:
The other thing I don't understand is why he feels compelled to paint the entire UCC with one brush? It's as unfair to those in the pews who have legitimate, orthodox Christian views as it is to those of us whose views do indeed tend to the more universalist.
you are correct , but i think he that dude in the video is speaking more of the institution rather than the body itself , hense the call to leave
Witch
Posted on: 03/10/2011 16:24
revjohn wrote:
Crap!
He appears to be a Calvinist.
Why do all the nutbars play on my line?
Try being a serious and scholarly Witch sometime
Berserk
Posted on: 03/10/2011 16:28
Bette, precisely. But that is the nature of polemics in the conservative vs. liberal divide. Some evangelical churches in Kelowna are so aggressive in their social activism, but seem to have a negative stereotype about the local UCC church and hence no dialogue or cooperation with them. We need to recognize that, on the one hand, there are apathic members and bigots and, on the other hand, saints and tireless social activists in various denominations across the liberal-conservative divide. We need to set our differences aside and join commen cause on justice projects and ministries to the poor that are hard to achieve by individual churches, but gloriously manageable if we would recognize that, in the corporate body of Christ, the whole can be far more effective than the individual parts operating separately. We need to take each member of a different denomination the same way we take members of other races--once at a time in all their uniqueness.
BetteTheRed
Posted on: 03/10/2011 16:58
I believe that, in fact, we are called to diversity.
That is where we pollinate each other; where ideas and actions swirl and engage and create abundance. We learn very little from those who are like us. Our Board Chair (from our very liberal denomination) attends a monthly luncheon with other Christian women, most from much more conservative congregations, with the aim of examining faith in action, particularly in the workplace. It never ceases to awe her that such different theologies move us to such similar loving actions.
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 03/10/2011 17:13
myst wrote:
Wow, that does make me even more proud to be a lifetime active member of the United Church of Canada.
Please describe for me the kind of critical thinking that goes on within the United Church of Canada. Thanks.
Well it could be the kind of critical thinking that says no belief is too sacred that it cannot bear examination.
SG
Posted on: 03/10/2011 17:56
I can tell you what kind of critical thinking. The kind that is a purposeful, reflective judgment concerning what to believe or what to do. Want examples? It is what General Council did in deciding on gay ordination. It is what every congregation does on a marriage policy. Governing from congregation up it means that everyone decides. Are all people making decisions based on purposeful, reflective jusgement? No, not when voting for PM or at a church board meeting. Does everyone agree the decisions made are the right ones? No, not after Gc, after board meetings or after elections are called.
It relies on observation, interpretation, analysis, inference, evaluation, explanation.... Can people use critical thinking and come up on different sides of a coin? Yes. Just use the ballot box as an example. Both sides will point at the person who voted the other way and say, "You are an idiot and need to critically think like I do, there is only one right answer".
MikePaterson
Posted on: 03/10/2011 18:36
What a sad, sweet, silly little jerk. He almost makes bigotry and stupidity look pathetic. And to make a video of himself!!! he needs help, and a the trolley he fell off. It's beautiful.
And it makes me proud to be a UCC member... now if we could only better live up to his glowing decsription!
redbaron338
Posted on: 03/10/2011 22:27
I found the lumping-together of the UCCan with the Jehovah's Witnesses somewhat odd;. I can't think of two relgious groups further apart. But it did highlight for me a number of things that make me proud to be a part of the United Church.
Witch
Posted on: 03/10/2011 22:38
redbaron338 wrote:
I found the lumping-together of the UCCan with the Jehovah's Witnesses somewhat odd;. I can't think of two relgious groups further apart.
They're both wrong, isn't that enough?
Mendalla
Posted on: 03/10/2011 22:39
He has totally sold me on this United Church thing. Where do I sign up?
Mendalla
Pinga
Posted on: 03/10/2011 22:44
Michelle is a poster on this site and someone who I name as friend. The church he quotes as led by wolves is one that i have been on the board of...and committees for.....so....I guess that makes me a wolf...
I showed it to my son, who couldn't figure out if it was a joke or the guy was serious. Inthe end, he decided serious..and that he takes things way too seriously.
anyhow, Revjohn, you made me laugh out loud with your comment...probably coz, they just don't get Calvin. and witch, nice addendum
I was mad at first, because, I don't like someone being attacked in that way, but, it will drive awareness and support, and michelle is a strong woman. ..and our congregation is thee with her, and all those who too are aware of the various aspects of gender due to the injustices they encounter.
Berserk
Posted on: 03/10/2011 23:32
The "Letter of Intent" Youtube video promoted under this video accuses the UCC about failure to notify familes about the locations of the bodies of dead school children. Can anyone explain to me what that's'all about? Has it been resolved?
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 03/10/2011 23:39
MorningCalm wrote:
myst wrote:
Wow, that does make me even more proud to be a lifetime active member of the United Church of Canada.
Please describe for me the kind of critical thinking that goes on within the United Church of Canada. Thanks.
I don't know where you've been for the past few years since WC was founded...I guess all these billions of words have just been meaningless babble (and the changes that you and others have gone through here have been pointless?) :3
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 03/10/2011 23:49
RevMatt wrote:
I'll link to it rather than imbedding it. He says such great things about us, this ad makes me very proud to be UCC.
That's the great thing aboot the 'net: anyone's voice can be heard :3
Just a question though...is that a mixed-fibre shirt mrjgardiner is wearing? And I think he can stand to use more "I" statements...any movie reviewer worth their salt already knows that :3
Alex
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:02
jeez the United Church is almost as bad as this church, which is even bigger.
Watch this expose and you will want to trash your TV.
the Church of Oprah
qwerty
Posted on: 03/11/2011 01:05
Yes, Pinga I wondered the same thing as your son. I couldn't decide if he was serious or trying to do a "soft sell" of the church. You know ... talk against the UCC but at the same time give concrete examples of all strong points of its doctrines all the while playing such a repulsive dweeb that one is both driven away from the pitiless fundamentalism apparently favoured by the speaker, even as we are simultaneously attracted by the inclusiveness of UCC doctrines and culture.
Frankly, I still can't decide where he was coming from. Certainly, he is either an advertising genius or his own worst enemy. In any case, you just can't buy advertising like that.
GeoFee
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:16
Thinking about the peer network the young man seeks to influence, Who is he talking to? Why?
Do young people take such things in earnest?
Very encouraging.
The lad speaks well, makes good use of visuals. I can see him slick in a suit selling salvation dreams to a gathered crowd; pumping them to irrigate some grand building project; in the service of GDP and popular acclaim.
A question arises. Are our young men and women adequate to the conversation this fellow proposes? Have we equipped them so that they may clearly answer concerning the hope that is active in them by faith?
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:13
Alex wrote:
jeez the United Church is almost as bad as this church, which is even bigger.
Watch this expose and you will want to trash your TV.
the Church of Oprah
Alex,
I remember that one; some people just don't like using their brains -- it's too scary :3 (the visual image I have here is David Warner's Evil from Time Bandits telling Benson that he is mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence and Benson thanks him profusely).
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:17
InannaWhimsey wrote:
MorningCalm wrote:
myst wrote:
Wow, that does make me even more proud to be a lifetime active member of the United Church of Canada.
Please describe for me the kind of critical thinking that goes on within the United Church of Canada. Thanks.
I don't know where you've been for the past few years since WC was founded...I guess all these billions of words have just been meaningless babble (and the changes that you and others have gone through here have been pointless?) :3
Hey hey, please go easy. I'm hurt (remember, I don't take criticism well). It was just an innocent question. I was quite taken by my last university course in historical-critical hermeneutics. I was wondering if that was the kind of thing the UCC was into. Peace.
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:22
This ad is an outrage! It suggests that Baptists are protestants!
RevMatt
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:26
Indeed it is, MC. Like most everything United Church, though, you will find different approaches in different places. Most of our Theological Schools offer a wide range of courses promoting a wide range of approaches to critically thinking about scripture and tradition.
There isn't really one answer to your question, except maybe to say that we are open to at least giving a fair hearing to any form of critical thinking out there. Some will find wider acceptance that others, but all are welcome.
Pinga
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:38
GeoFee -- re your question.
There is another youtube of this guy being arrested outside of a school...he & a buddy...they were ranting on & on about the bible and the 10 commandments... There was no one near them. My son would walk away from such a person. Some of our youth would go to egg him on...ie, see how far he could go off line, but most would avoid.
My son was waiting for the joke. There was no question that my youngestson understood what this guy was ranting about was what we thought was good. He thought the guy was putting us on, and then realized later he was serious, and shook his head. My son also grew up in a place that is affirming and inclusive and with strong leadership both at church and t school and at programs such as Five Oaks. I am not sure if all youth would approach the same way.
I
GordW
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:42
Berserk wrote:
The "Letter of Intent" Youtube video promoted under this video accuses the UCC about failure to notify familes about the locations of the bodies of dead school children. Can anyone explain to me what that's'all about? Has it been resolved?
It is an assertion that comes out of the history of our involvement in First Nations Residential Schools. It is also one with quesiotnable basis in fact....
The assertion is that the schools intentionally hid the names of children who died (and/or, in the more obsesive versions, were killled through error, lack of care or intent) while at the schools. This was done, so the story goes, to hide the true number of deaths. It also asserts that the bodies were buried in unmarked graves and lost forever.
Berserk
Posted on: 03/11/2011 01:09
[quote=GeoFee]
[Geo Fee:] "Thinking about the peer network the young man seeks to influence, Who is he talking to? Why?"
A hint of his audience is his confidence that the statements quoted form the UCC website "are sure to shock you." Obviously, his intended readers are honest seekers who feel the need for a Bible-based church.
[Geo Fee:] "Do young people take such things in earnest?"
Absolutely! So posters here should at least demonstrate that they are housebroken and politely craft a considered rebuttal to his critique. Courtesy goes a long way to disarm naive young fundamentalists like him.
[Geo Fee:] "A question arises. Are our young men and women adequate to the conversation this fellow proposes? Have we equipped them so that they may clearly answer concerning the hope that is active in them by faith?"
Well, noti if you judge by the fact taht no one on this thread has taken his charges seriously on a point by point basis. A thoughtful and reflective answer is needed to the fundamentalist belief system that drives his passion, especially to his charge that the UCC treats the Bible as just another valuable spiritual book and his charge that the UCC rejects Jesus' exclusivism. Such courtesy might win a fresh hearing for fundamentalist Christians who think the UCC lacks the fruit of the Spirit and is too doctrinally wishy-washy. Remember, Christians of every conceivable background visit this site!
Alex
Posted on: 03/11/2011 01:07
InannaWhimsey wrote:
Alex,
I remember that one; some people just don't like using their brains -- it's too scary :3 (the visual image I have here is David Warner's Evil from Time Bandits telling Benson that he is mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence and Benson thanks him profusely).
[/quote]
This one is even better. Oprah Winfrey Host to the anti-Christ
What they all seem to have in common is a belief or understanding that comes from Greek (Pagan) philosophy. That there is only one way to beleive and to live. All other ways must be destroyed. It is certainly not one supported by the new testament. Jesus embraced jew and gentile alike.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 03/11/2011 01:07
MorningCalm wrote:
InannaWhimsey wrote:
MorningCalm wrote:
myst wrote:
Wow, that does make me even more proud to be a lifetime active member of the United Church of Canada.
Please describe for me the kind of critical thinking that goes on within the United Church of Canada. Thanks.
I don't know where you've been for the past few years since WC was founded...I guess all these billions of words have just been meaningless babble (and the changes that you and others have gone through here have been pointless?) :3
Hey hey, please go easy. I'm hurt (remember, I don't take criticism well). It was just an innocent question. I was quite taken by my last university course in historical-critical hermeneutics. I was wondering if that was the kind of thing the UCC was into. Peace.
Sorry brother and fellow traveller of the shared human experience. Forgive my head being in my butt :3
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 03/11/2011 01:12
Berserk wrote:
Well, noti if you judge by the fact taht no one on this thread has taken his charges seriously on a point by point basis. A thoughtful and reflective answer is needed to the fundamentalist belief system that drives his passion, especially to his charge that the UCC treats the Bible as just another valuable spiritual book and his charge that the UCC rejects Jesus' exclusivism. Such courtesy might win a fresh hearing for fundamentalist Christians who think the UCC lacks the fruit of the Spirit and is too doctrinally wishy-washy. Remember, Christians of every conceivable background visit this site!
That's one of the things I really like aboot you, Berserk -- your Political Correctness is giving all of us here so many fun quotables :3
Audience aside: hey, we've got some WC musicians here -- perhaps someone could compose a little Funk for the UCC Ghetto? :3 I could design the logo for the band...:3
qwerty
Posted on: 03/11/2011 01:22
Berserk recommends a rebuttal. A considered rebuttal.
There is really nothing this zealot said that I wished to rebut. He seemed to have captured us pretty well. It was a pretty good demonstation of how beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I just kept saying to myself, "Thank God we're guilty as charged". The "sheep" and "wolves" thing was a bit much but that is just the way I thought fundies talked. Not much you can do about that!
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 03/11/2011 02:56
Alex wrote:
This one is even better. Oprah Winfrey Host to the anti-Christ
What they all seem to have in common is a belief or understanding that comes from Greek (Pagan) philosophy. That there is only one way to beleive and to live. All other ways must be destroyed. It is certainly not one supported by the new testament. Jesus embraced jew and gentile alike.
Yup, G_d is an Iron :3
(like those many Christian churches and holy places -- like Lourdes -- which are built on much older, Pagan sites...where visitations from the Pagan White Lady become, when Christianized, Mary...the human being and reality is SO INTERESTING and complex)
Comments
Witch
Posted on: 03/10/2011 11:35
It seems for some Christians there is nothing they hate more than another Christian, who believes only slightly differently.
waterfall
Posted on: 03/10/2011 12:02
Is that SB?
GordW
Posted on: 03/10/2011 12:03
ask him...I am sure he is still reading the board.
Jim Kenney
Posted on: 03/10/2011 12:48
A great video -- it would be a good discussion starter to use in a faith study session or confirmation class.
blackbelt
Posted on: 03/10/2011 12:55
I think the main point of the video is,,,,
Is Jesus the only way, or are other faiths just as valid
Witch
Posted on: 03/10/2011 12:58
No I think the main point of the video is "demonizing other Christians who don't believe exactly tha same way I do."
After all, God conforms to MY beliefs, don'cha know.
myst
Posted on: 03/10/2011 13:16
Wow, that does make me even more proud to be a lifetime active member of the United Church of Canada.
Open, open-minded, respectful, inclusive, discerning, faith-filled, hopeful, loving, compassionate, justice-seeking, critical thinkers ....
Let's celebrate who we are!!
chansen
Posted on: 03/10/2011 13:18
Well, that just about does it for the United Church. This guy has an open-and-shut case against the UCCan. This video will surely go viral, just as the video author's last video did, when he pretended to be a Jedi knight battling with his broomstick light sabre.
revjohn
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:04
Hi waterfall,
Is that SB?
I don't believe so. I think StephenBooth claimed to be middle-aged.
He did have a profile that claimed he was much younger but he was very insistent that he was not that young.
Grace and peace to you.
John
revjohn
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:10
Hi RevMatt,
He says such great things about us, this ad makes me very proud to be UCC.
I'm somewhat torn on this.
First, just to be clear, I am not dismayed about any allegation that the video lays against us. I think the young man is either deliberately misrepresenting the beliefs of the Church or he is woefully ignorant about how The United Church of Canada states its beliefs.
It could be both of course.
In the end, I guess I feel sadder for this earnest believer and the junk he clings to than I am prouder of what he rejects.
As far as this being good advertising for us, well, that remains to be seen.
Grace and peace to you.
John
BetteTheRed
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:11
Don't the sheep ever get a bit offended at being so designated?
It is funny; the arrogance is a little annoying. OTOH, I just finished watching Client 9, and hubris is a harsh teacher.
GordW
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:12
Hi waterfall,
Is that SB?
I don't believe so. I think StephenBooth claimed to be middle-aged.
He did have a profile that claimed he was much younger but he was very insistent that he was not that young.
Grace and peace to you.
John
Also this video has actual content and personal opinion shared. Even if it is an interesting interpretation of what is being read. I mean objecting to "who works in us and others by the Spirit"????
revjohn
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:17
Hi Gang,
The creator of the video under review is one Jeremy Gardiner. Not likely to be our Stephen Booth.
They seem like they would get along though.
Grace and peace to you.
John
chansen
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:20
Blind date?
somegalfromcan
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:23
Thanks for sharing that Matt - it was definitely good for a chuckle! I am wondering, however, why this guy has such an axe to grind against the United Church. I am also noticing that he does not allow for messages to be posted.
revjohn
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:26
Crap!
He appears to be a Calvinist.
Why do all the nutbars play on my line?
Grace and peace to you.
John
Berserk
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:30
I think the main point of the video is,,,,
Is Jesus the only way, or are other faiths just as valid
I agree with you (against Witch) that this is the main point of the video. The video fails to do justice to the biblical doctrine of general revelation as opposed to special revelation (e. g. through Christ). The video gives voice to those in our region who would create a similar caricature of my church and denomination (United Methodist). i also agree with Jim Kenney that the video might energize a good discussion about UCC distinctives and, in that respect, it might be transformed into good promotional material for the UCC. But as it stands, it is harmful to the UCC in one respect: it portrays the UCC as doctrinally wishy washy and needs a response in terms of the UCC's position on the mandate and urgency of Jesus' Great Commission in Matthew 28:16-20.
chansen
Posted on: 03/10/2011 15:57
16Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Well that has always worked out swimmingly. How could anyone not follow those directions?
BetteTheRed
Posted on: 03/10/2011 16:06
The other thing I don't understand is why he feels compelled to paint the entire UCC with one brush? It's as unfair to those in the pews who have legitimate, orthodox Christian views as it is to those of us whose views do indeed tend to the more universalist.
blackbelt
Posted on: 03/10/2011 16:19
The other thing I don't understand is why he feels compelled to paint the entire UCC with one brush? It's as unfair to those in the pews who have legitimate, orthodox Christian views as it is to those of us whose views do indeed tend to the more universalist.
you are correct , but i think he that dude in the video is speaking more of the institution rather than the body itself , hense the call to leave
Witch
Posted on: 03/10/2011 16:24
Crap!
He appears to be a Calvinist.
Why do all the nutbars play on my line?
Try being a serious and scholarly Witch sometime
Berserk
Posted on: 03/10/2011 16:28
Bette, precisely. But that is the nature of polemics in the conservative vs. liberal divide. Some evangelical churches in Kelowna are so aggressive in their social activism, but seem to have a negative stereotype about the local UCC church and hence no dialogue or cooperation with them. We need to recognize that, on the one hand, there are apathic members and bigots and, on the other hand, saints and tireless social activists in various denominations across the liberal-conservative divide. We need to set our differences aside and join commen cause on justice projects and ministries to the poor that are hard to achieve by individual churches, but gloriously manageable if we would recognize that, in the corporate body of Christ, the whole can be far more effective than the individual parts operating separately. We need to take each member of a different denomination the same way we take members of other races--once at a time in all their uniqueness.
BetteTheRed
Posted on: 03/10/2011 16:58
I believe that, in fact, we are called to diversity.
That is where we pollinate each other; where ideas and actions swirl and engage and create abundance. We learn very little from those who are like us. Our Board Chair (from our very liberal denomination) attends a monthly luncheon with other Christian women, most from much more conservative congregations, with the aim of examining faith in action, particularly in the workplace. It never ceases to awe her that such different theologies move us to such similar loving actions.
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 03/10/2011 17:13
Wow, that does make me even more proud to be a lifetime active member of the United Church of Canada.
Open, open-minded, respectful, inclusive, discerning, faith-filled, hopeful, loving, compassionate, justice-seeking, critical thinkers ....
Let's celebrate who we are!!
Please describe for me the kind of critical thinking that goes on within the United Church of Canada. Thanks.
chansen
Posted on: 03/10/2011 17:35
Wow, that does make me even more proud to be a lifetime active member of the United Church of Canada.
Open, open-minded, respectful, inclusive, discerning, faith-filled, hopeful, loving, compassionate, justice-seeking, critical thinkers ....
Let's celebrate who we are!!
Please describe for me the kind of critical thinking that goes on within the United Church of Canada. Thanks.
It seems to be a different sort of "critical thinking" than Baptists often employ, when they think about other beliefs and are critical of them.
Witch
Posted on: 03/10/2011 17:47
Wow, that does make me even more proud to be a lifetime active member of the United Church of Canada.
Open, open-minded, respectful, inclusive, discerning, faith-filled, hopeful, loving, compassionate, justice-seeking, critical thinkers ....
Let's celebrate who we are!!
Please describe for me the kind of critical thinking that goes on within the United Church of Canada. Thanks.
Well it could be the kind of critical thinking that says no belief is too sacred that it cannot bear examination.
SG
Posted on: 03/10/2011 17:56
I can tell you what kind of critical thinking. The kind that is a purposeful, reflective judgment concerning what to believe or what to do. Want examples? It is what General Council did in deciding on gay ordination. It is what every congregation does on a marriage policy. Governing from congregation up it means that everyone decides. Are all people making decisions based on purposeful, reflective jusgement? No, not when voting for PM or at a church board meeting. Does everyone agree the decisions made are the right ones? No, not after Gc, after board meetings or after elections are called.
It relies on observation, interpretation, analysis, inference, evaluation, explanation.... Can people use critical thinking and come up on different sides of a coin? Yes. Just use the ballot box as an example. Both sides will point at the person who voted the other way and say, "You are an idiot and need to critically think like I do, there is only one right answer".
MikePaterson
Posted on: 03/10/2011 18:36
What a sad, sweet, silly little jerk. He almost makes bigotry and stupidity look pathetic. And to make a video of himself!!! he needs help, and a the trolley he fell off. It's beautiful.
And it makes me proud to be a UCC member... now if we could only better live up to his glowing decsription!
redbaron338
Posted on: 03/10/2011 22:27
I found the lumping-together of the UCCan with the Jehovah's Witnesses somewhat odd;. I can't think of two relgious groups further apart. But it did highlight for me a number of things that make me proud to be a part of the United Church.
Witch
Posted on: 03/10/2011 22:38
I found the lumping-together of the UCCan with the Jehovah's Witnesses somewhat odd;. I can't think of two relgious groups further apart.
They're both wrong, isn't that enough?
Mendalla
Posted on: 03/10/2011 22:39
He has totally sold me on this United Church thing. Where do I sign up?
Mendalla
Pinga
Posted on: 03/10/2011 22:44
Michelle is a poster on this site and someone who I name as friend. The church he quotes as led by wolves is one that i have been on the board of...and committees for.....so....I guess that makes me a wolf...
I showed it to my son, who couldn't figure out if it was a joke or the guy was serious. Inthe end, he decided serious..and that he takes things way too seriously.
anyhow, Revjohn, you made me laugh out loud with your comment...probably coz, they just don't get Calvin. and witch, nice addendum
I was mad at first, because, I don't like someone being attacked in that way, but, it will drive awareness and support, and michelle is a strong woman. ..and our congregation is thee with her, and all those who too are aware of the various aspects of gender due to the injustices they encounter.
Berserk
Posted on: 03/10/2011 23:32
The "Letter of Intent" Youtube video promoted under this video accuses the UCC about failure to notify familes about the locations of the bodies of dead school children. Can anyone explain to me what that's'all about? Has it been resolved?
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 03/10/2011 23:39
Wow, that does make me even more proud to be a lifetime active member of the United Church of Canada.
Open, open-minded, respectful, inclusive, discerning, faith-filled, hopeful, loving, compassionate, justice-seeking, critical thinkers ....
Let's celebrate who we are!!
Please describe for me the kind of critical thinking that goes on within the United Church of Canada. Thanks.
I don't know where you've been for the past few years since WC was founded...I guess all these billions of words have just been meaningless babble (and the changes that you and others have gone through here have been pointless?) :3
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 03/10/2011 23:49
I'll link to it rather than imbedding it. He says such great things about us, this ad makes me very proud to be UCC.
www.youtube.com/watch
That's the great thing aboot the 'net: anyone's voice can be heard :3
Just a question though...is that a mixed-fibre shirt mrjgardiner is wearing? And I think he can stand to use more "I" statements...any movie reviewer worth their salt already knows that :3
Alex
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:02
jeez the United Church is almost as bad as this church, which is even bigger.
Watch this expose and you will want to trash your TV.
the Church of Oprah
qwerty
Posted on: 03/11/2011 01:05
Yes, Pinga I wondered the same thing as your son. I couldn't decide if he was serious or trying to do a "soft sell" of the church. You know ... talk against the UCC but at the same time give concrete examples of all strong points of its doctrines all the while playing such a repulsive dweeb that one is both driven away from the pitiless fundamentalism apparently favoured by the speaker, even as we are simultaneously attracted by the inclusiveness of UCC doctrines and culture.
Frankly, I still can't decide where he was coming from. Certainly, he is either an advertising genius or his own worst enemy. In any case, you just can't buy advertising like that.
GeoFee
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:16
Thinking about the peer network the young man seeks to influence, Who is he talking to? Why?
Do young people take such things in earnest?
Very encouraging.
The lad speaks well, makes good use of visuals. I can see him slick in a suit selling salvation dreams to a gathered crowd; pumping them to irrigate some grand building project; in the service of GDP and popular acclaim.
A question arises. Are our young men and women adequate to the conversation this fellow proposes? Have we equipped them so that they may clearly answer concerning the hope that is active in them by faith?
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:13
jeez the United Church is almost as bad as this church, which is even bigger.
Watch this expose and you will want to trash your TV.
the Church of Oprah
Alex,
I remember that one; some people just don't like using their brains -- it's too scary :3 (the visual image I have here is David Warner's Evil from Time Bandits telling Benson that he is mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence and Benson thanks him profusely).
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:17
Wow, that does make me even more proud to be a lifetime active member of the United Church of Canada.
Open, open-minded, respectful, inclusive, discerning, faith-filled, hopeful, loving, compassionate, justice-seeking, critical thinkers ....
Let's celebrate who we are!!
Please describe for me the kind of critical thinking that goes on within the United Church of Canada. Thanks.
I don't know where you've been for the past few years since WC was founded...I guess all these billions of words have just been meaningless babble (and the changes that you and others have gone through here have been pointless?) :3
Hey hey, please go easy. I'm hurt (remember, I don't take criticism well). It was just an innocent question. I was quite taken by my last university course in historical-critical hermeneutics. I was wondering if that was the kind of thing the UCC was into. Peace.
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:22
This ad is an outrage! It suggests that Baptists are protestants!
RevMatt
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:26
Indeed it is, MC. Like most everything United Church, though, you will find different approaches in different places. Most of our Theological Schools offer a wide range of courses promoting a wide range of approaches to critically thinking about scripture and tradition.
There isn't really one answer to your question, except maybe to say that we are open to at least giving a fair hearing to any form of critical thinking out there. Some will find wider acceptance that others, but all are welcome.
Pinga
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:38
GeoFee -- re your question.
There is another youtube of this guy being arrested outside of a school...he & a buddy...they were ranting on & on about the bible and the 10 commandments... There was no one near them. My son would walk away from such a person. Some of our youth would go to egg him on...ie, see how far he could go off line, but most would avoid.
My son was waiting for the joke. There was no question that my youngestson understood what this guy was ranting about was what we thought was good. He thought the guy was putting us on, and then realized later he was serious, and shook his head. My son also grew up in a place that is affirming and inclusive and with strong leadership both at church and t school and at programs such as Five Oaks. I am not sure if all youth would approach the same way.
I
GordW
Posted on: 03/11/2011 00:42
The "Letter of Intent" Youtube video promoted under this video accuses the UCC about failure to notify familes about the locations of the bodies of dead school children. Can anyone explain to me what that's'all about? Has it been resolved?
It is an assertion that comes out of the history of our involvement in First Nations Residential Schools. It is also one with quesiotnable basis in fact....
The assertion is that the schools intentionally hid the names of children who died (and/or, in the more obsesive versions, were killled through error, lack of care or intent) while at the schools. This was done, so the story goes, to hide the true number of deaths. It also asserts that the bodies were buried in unmarked graves and lost forever.
Berserk
Posted on: 03/11/2011 01:09
[quote=GeoFee]
[Geo Fee:] "Thinking about the peer network the young man seeks to influence, Who is he talking to? Why?"
A hint of his audience is his confidence that the statements quoted form the UCC website "are sure to shock you." Obviously, his intended readers are honest seekers who feel the need for a Bible-based church.
[Geo Fee:] "Do young people take such things in earnest?"
Absolutely! So posters here should at least demonstrate that they are housebroken and politely craft a considered rebuttal to his critique. Courtesy goes a long way to disarm naive young fundamentalists like him.
[Geo Fee:] "A question arises. Are our young men and women adequate to the conversation this fellow proposes? Have we equipped them so that they may clearly answer concerning the hope that is active in them by faith?"
Well, noti if you judge by the fact taht no one on this thread has taken his charges seriously on a point by point basis. A thoughtful and reflective answer is needed to the fundamentalist belief system that drives his passion, especially to his charge that the UCC treats the Bible as just another valuable spiritual book and his charge that the UCC rejects Jesus' exclusivism. Such courtesy might win a fresh hearing for fundamentalist Christians who think the UCC lacks the fruit of the Spirit and is too doctrinally wishy-washy. Remember, Christians of every conceivable background visit this site!
Alex
Posted on: 03/11/2011 01:07
Alex,
I remember that one; some people just don't like using their brains -- it's too scary :3 (the visual image I have here is David Warner's Evil from Time Bandits telling Benson that he is mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence and Benson thanks him profusely).
[/quote]
This one is even better. Oprah Winfrey Host to the anti-Christ
What they all seem to have in common is a belief or understanding that comes from Greek (Pagan) philosophy. That there is only one way to beleive and to live. All other ways must be destroyed. It is certainly not one supported by the new testament. Jesus embraced jew and gentile alike.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 03/11/2011 01:07
Wow, that does make me even more proud to be a lifetime active member of the United Church of Canada.
Open, open-minded, respectful, inclusive, discerning, faith-filled, hopeful, loving, compassionate, justice-seeking, critical thinkers ....
Let's celebrate who we are!!
Please describe for me the kind of critical thinking that goes on within the United Church of Canada. Thanks.
I don't know where you've been for the past few years since WC was founded...I guess all these billions of words have just been meaningless babble (and the changes that you and others have gone through here have been pointless?) :3
Hey hey, please go easy. I'm hurt (remember, I don't take criticism well). It was just an innocent question. I was quite taken by my last university course in historical-critical hermeneutics. I was wondering if that was the kind of thing the UCC was into. Peace.
Sorry brother and fellow traveller of the shared human experience. Forgive my head being in my butt :3
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 03/11/2011 01:12
Well, noti if you judge by the fact taht no one on this thread has taken his charges seriously on a point by point basis. A thoughtful and reflective answer is needed to the fundamentalist belief system that drives his passion, especially to his charge that the UCC treats the Bible as just another valuable spiritual book and his charge that the UCC rejects Jesus' exclusivism. Such courtesy might win a fresh hearing for fundamentalist Christians who think the UCC lacks the fruit of the Spirit and is too doctrinally wishy-washy. Remember, Christians of every conceivable background visit this site!
That's one of the things I really like aboot you, Berserk -- your Political Correctness is giving all of us here so many fun quotables :3
Audience aside: hey, we've got some WC musicians here -- perhaps someone could compose a little Funk for the UCC Ghetto? :3 I could design the logo for the band...:3
qwerty
Posted on: 03/11/2011 01:22
Berserk recommends a rebuttal. A considered rebuttal.
There is really nothing this zealot said that I wished to rebut. He seemed to have captured us pretty well. It was a pretty good demonstation of how beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I just kept saying to myself, "Thank God we're guilty as charged". The "sheep" and "wolves" thing was a bit much but that is just the way I thought fundies talked. Not much you can do about that!
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 03/11/2011 02:56
This one is even better. Oprah Winfrey Host to the anti-Christ
What they all seem to have in common is a belief or understanding that comes from Greek (Pagan) philosophy. That there is only one way to beleive and to live. All other ways must be destroyed. It is certainly not one supported by the new testament. Jesus embraced jew and gentile alike.
Yup, G_d is an Iron :3
(like those many Christian churches and holy places -- like Lourdes -- which are built on much older, Pagan sites...where visitations from the Pagan White Lady become, when Christianized, Mary...the human being and reality is SO INTERESTING and complex)