I wouldn't say that churches offer grace. God offers grace. Churches provide a means to learn about that grace or to celebrate it, and possibly act as a channel for it (depending on your theology), but they don't offer it. IMHO, of course and depending on your definition of grace.
Mendalla
waterfall
Posted on: 05/16/2011 11:10
I believe Mendella is right in that it is not the church that offers Grace, it is a divine "gift". I wouldn't even want to attempt to dissect it's meaning too much because "mans" definition would seem to reduce the experience.
It's hard to explain, but I'm thinking that any church that doesn't claim perfection yet is willing to be a refuge and safe place for anyone and encourages us to "come as we are" to glorify God. A place where sin equalizes us all and acknowledges that no one is any better than anyone else.
I am SURE that the ministers on this forum will give you a better response.
blackbelt
Posted on: 05/16/2011 14:00
The Church= body of believers, having received grace we now offer it, EG God works through his True Church
Rev. Steven Davis
Posted on: 05/16/2011 14:11
The church proclaims and makes known the grace of God. Since that grace comes from God, though, I agree that it's God who offers it.
Mendalla
Posted on: 05/16/2011 14:12
blackbelt wrote:
The Church= body of believers, having received grace we now offer it, EG God works through his True Church
Okay, I can see that interpretation working. I, personally, would still see that as God giving the grace with the church as the channel but I can see how you're reading it, too.
Mendalla
blackbelt
Posted on: 05/16/2011 14:16
Mendalla wrote:
blackbelt wrote:
The Church= body of believers, having received grace we now offer it, EG God works through his True Church
Okay, I can see that interpretation working. I, personally, would still see that as God giving the grace with the church as the channel but I can see how you're reading it, too.
Mendalla
agreed, God gives it
revjohn
Posted on: 05/16/2011 15:20
Hi crazyheart,
crazyheart wrote:
On another thread someone has posted that churches offer grace. Wil someone explain how churches do this?
Any church that is gracious does this?
Is participation in the life and work of a Church merit based? If not then it is an act of grace?
Does the church reach out to the community around it freely or is it understood that if you want a specific Church's help it is going to cost? If there are strings attached whatever is being offered isn't grace. If there are no strings then it is grace.
Some questions that might arise may be:
1) Do churches offer salvific, providential or cheap grace?
2) Can salvific, providential or cheap grace be found outside of the church?
Grace and peace to you.
John
Arminius
Posted on: 05/16/2011 19:55
God offers Grace when we believe in a separate God.
If, however, we believe in creator-created unity, then Grace is the awareness of that unity.
This kind of innate Grace is not cheap—the highest prize demands the highest price. In order to attain that type of Grace, we have to forego egocentricity. This, for many, is too high price to pay. But for those who are willing to pay the price, Grace is waiting, with open arms.
Comments
Mendalla
Posted on: 05/16/2011 10:34
I wouldn't say that churches offer grace. God offers grace. Churches provide a means to learn about that grace or to celebrate it, and possibly act as a channel for it (depending on your theology), but they don't offer it. IMHO, of course and depending on your definition of grace.
Mendalla
waterfall
Posted on: 05/16/2011 11:10
I believe Mendella is right in that it is not the church that offers Grace, it is a divine "gift". I wouldn't even want to attempt to dissect it's meaning too much because "mans" definition would seem to reduce the experience.
It's hard to explain, but I'm thinking that any church that doesn't claim perfection yet is willing to be a refuge and safe place for anyone and encourages us to "come as we are" to glorify God. A place where sin equalizes us all and acknowledges that no one is any better than anyone else.
I am SURE that the ministers on this forum will give you a better response.
blackbelt
Posted on: 05/16/2011 14:00
The Church= body of believers, having received grace we now offer it, EG God works through his True Church
Rev. Steven Davis
Posted on: 05/16/2011 14:11
The church proclaims and makes known the grace of God. Since that grace comes from God, though, I agree that it's God who offers it.
Mendalla
Posted on: 05/16/2011 14:12
The Church= body of believers, having received grace we now offer it, EG God works through his True Church
Okay, I can see that interpretation working. I, personally, would still see that as God giving the grace with the church as the channel but I can see how you're reading it, too.
Mendalla
blackbelt
Posted on: 05/16/2011 14:16
The Church= body of believers, having received grace we now offer it, EG God works through his True Church
Okay, I can see that interpretation working. I, personally, would still see that as God giving the grace with the church as the channel but I can see how you're reading it, too.
Mendalla
agreed, God gives it
revjohn
Posted on: 05/16/2011 15:20
Hi crazyheart,
On another thread someone has posted that churches offer grace. Wil someone explain how churches do this?
Any church that is gracious does this?
Is participation in the life and work of a Church merit based? If not then it is an act of grace?
Does the church reach out to the community around it freely or is it understood that if you want a specific Church's help it is going to cost? If there are strings attached whatever is being offered isn't grace. If there are no strings then it is grace.
Some questions that might arise may be:
1) Do churches offer salvific, providential or cheap grace?
2) Can salvific, providential or cheap grace be found outside of the church?
Grace and peace to you.
John
Arminius
Posted on: 05/16/2011 19:55
God offers Grace when we believe in a separate God.
If, however, we believe in creator-created unity, then Grace is the awareness of that unity.
This kind of innate Grace is not cheap—the highest prize demands the highest price. In order to attain that type of Grace, we have to forego egocentricity. This, for many, is too high price to pay. But for those who are willing to pay the price, Grace is waiting, with open arms.
Amazing Grace, eh?