crazyheart's picture

crazyheart

image

hey People, I am having trouble here

I am having trouble  getting my head around the symbolization of the Cross. We talk about it, we have a cross on the altar, we wear them around our neck. but what does it really mean to those who do not take the story literally as written.

 

 

What is the significence of the cross and what we are suppose to do with it?

Share this

Comments

Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

image

are you going crazy?  poor dear :)

I think for me, the cross is a reminder of how people say they want a better world, but keep it from happening and it should break our hearts to think we are part of that.   Not a happy symbol at all, but important?  For the record, I don't own one aside from VBS crafts.

Honestly, for my faith & understanding of Christianity, the cross is not the highest symbol.  I'd rather the dove (peace, spirit) or a fish (discipleship in the Way - I love the ones with feet).  A candle, or a star is nice too - especially the ones that look like they are guiding someone or lighting up the dark - a long tail - the light of the world, so to speak.  

Arminius's picture

Arminius

image

Hi crazyheart:

 

I don't much like the cross as a religious symbol because it was the instrument of criminal execution in ancient Rome. Why not have the gallows as a sacred symbol, or the guillotine, or the pyre, all of which were used to execute innocent prophets, martyrs, and heretics.

 

I like the equal-armed cross as a spiritual symbol, and it is the only Christian symbol I have here in my study—above and behind my Native altar, which ranks more prominently in my study and in my mind, in honour of the First Spirituality of our land.

spiritbear's picture

spiritbear

image

A couple of points to make. First of all, for Protestant Christians, it is important that the cross is an empty cross. The cross itself represents the sacrifice of Christ (and the sacrifices, small or large, that are often required of those who follow Christ), but the fact that Christ is not found on the cross is symbolic of the resurrection.  The cross (and death) is not the end, but rather Christ (or Christ's spirit) lives on among us, and even death cannot prevent Christ, and through Christ, God, from entering our lives even today.

Elanorgold's picture

Elanorgold

image

That's nice Arminius. I wear a ringed equal armed cross as my spiritual pendant. I have a couple of differnet ones, and would like to get another! It's the Earth cross, and very ancient.

 

To me the Christian cross is a symbol showing you belong to that group, a symbol of identity. The crucifix, now that has gore written all over it. The cross alone still is an instument of torcher, but I think to most people it is merly a symbol sygnifying that the werer is a christian. To me it reminds me of predudice and intollerance though. When I see it on someone, I raise my guard, because I fear that they may have strickt ideas about what is and isn't acceptable.

Beloved's picture

Beloved

image

Greetings!

 

For the greatest part of my life and walk with God, the cross has been the most important symbol of my faith to me.  I guess because it reminded me of Jesus - his life, birth, death, and resurrection - because of his death on the cross.  This was a symbol that was taught to me as a child (especially having been brought up in the Roman Catholic faith), and continued as an adult.  Because of my upbringing there is more symbolism of the cross to my faith than just the crucifixtion of Jesus . . . it reminds me of churches I have attended, and the people in them.  It reminds me of my ancestors, who come from a long line of Roman Catholics and Salvation Army.  So, for me, there is a lot of symbolism, but also emotion in the cross.

 

As we have entered into Lent one of my goals is to draw closer to God.  I was thinking just the other day of what would be a symbol I could hold in my hand as I was spending time with God to help keep me focused.  I thought about the cross, but as I thought about it, it became clear to me that as I have grown in my faith and understanding of God over the years, the cross would not encompass my faith and feelings.  The God I have come to know is more than what the cross symbolizes (for me).  And I realized that the cross (while still has symbolism and holds emotion for me) does not adequately convey my faith.  I have to admit, the realization of this kind of shocked me.  I guess God has become bigger, has more layers, more facets, deeper than my limited understanding, and I can no longer hold God in a box, or on a cross.

 

Birthstone mentions a dove, and I find that also has meaning for me, and therefore one of my focusing tools in my quiet times is a dove shaped candle holder.

 

Hope, peace, joy, love . . .

 

Beloved's picture

Beloved

image

Greetings!

 

Arminius, what is an equal armed cross?

 

Hope, peace, joy, love . . .

 

Arminius's picture

Arminius

image

Beloved wrote:

Greetings!

 

Arminius, what is an equal armed cross?

 

Hope, peace, joy, love . . .

 

 

Hello Beloved:

 

An equal-armed cross is a cross with all four arms equally shaped and of equal length, like the cross of the Red Cross.

BethanyK's picture

BethanyK

image

I agree with Elanorgold saying

Quote:
To me the Christian cross is a symbol showing you belong to that group, a symbol of identity.

 

I don't feel much attachment to the cross myself other than as a symbol of christianity in general. Like others I have a strong connection to say the fish symbol or a dove.

nighthawk's picture

nighthawk

image

The cross always will have the connotations of death and execution.  There are other meanings we see in it.  The empty cross also represents the resurrection of Christ.  The roughly human shape of it reminds us of the Incarnation; the intersection of the two pieces reminds us of the meeting of the horizontal (the worldly, the mundane), with the vertical (the Holy, the transcendant).

sighsnootles's picture

sighsnootles

image

for me, i wear an empty cross.  the empty cross is a reminder to me that if i follow in the path that jesus walked, then there is nothing that can destroy me.

 

catholic friends i have wear a crucifix, the cross with the dying body of christ on it.  for them, it is a reminder of the suffering that jesus endured to save them.

 

 

crazyheart's picture

crazyheart

image

Thank you for your responses and I hope there  will be more. I thought there was something wrong with me this morning - that I was crazy - because I couldn't see that the cross was a symbol that I would use. rather the fish or the dove or the candle would be the symbols that I would choose.If this question had been put to me before Wondercafe opened, I would not have hesitated in saying - the cross. How far I have come on a personal journey  and on a communal journey.

Beloved's picture

Beloved

image

Greetings!

 

crazyheart wrote:

If this question had been put to me before Wondercafe opened, I would not have hesitated in saying - the cross. How far I have come on a personal journey  and on a communal journey.

 

Crazyheart, I think you have been able to say in fewer words what I was trying to say in my many sentences.

 

Hope, peace, joy, love . . .

 

 

 

musicsooths's picture

musicsooths

image

The cross to me is important as a symbol of the resurrection of Christ and the ongoing legacy given to us. I also relate to the Dove  the Butterfly and the bible. Each symbol is a part of my spiritual journey and as has been said before the empty cross binds protestants together and the crucifix binds catholics together in community. This is also an important part of Christianity.

 

I also have a fish symbol on my van to symbolize the struggles that Christians have had and are still having in the world.

 

Although I also have a Jesus bobble head on my dashboard I am not quite sure the significance of that is other then I can always find my van in parking lots.

Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

image

lol- the bobblehead is important to me , as a symbol, though I didn't think of it before.  It symbolizes the false stories, the red herrings of doctrine, the false piety or at least misplaced piety that has blocked so many many people over the last 2000 years from a Way of peace & possibility.  The Bobblehead says, 'enough fawning over Jesus', lets follow him instead.

sighsnootles's picture

sighsnootles

image

i have a bobblehead jesus, too!!  he sits on top of my cpu... i found him at the salvation army thrift store for a buck. 

Kinst's picture

Kinst

image

Aw I want a bobblehead. It's like a symbol of the UCC now . I love crosses though.

RussP's picture

RussP

image

musicsooths

 

I have a bobble head in my office.

 

It certainly makes it easier for me to find the office.

 

 

IT

 

Russ

paradox3's picture

paradox3

image

We have some Jesus pencil toppers in my house.

seeler's picture

seeler

image

To me the cross is a symbol of Jesus - his life, his teachings, his death.   And the empty cross is a symbol that even death could not conquer the spirit or essense of who Jesus was.  I have several crosses.  The one I wear when I am leading in service was given to me by the Institute of Christian Studies upon my graduation - beside its symbolic meaning related to Jesus, it also symbolizes for me that I am trained and qualified to lead in worship.  A smaller cross was given to me by my husband to be when we became engaged - it symbolizes the fact that our Christian beliefs were important to us (even though we were from two quite different denominations - RC and UCC). 

 

I also sometimes wear a fish symbol or have one on my car.  I guess it symbolizes for me the Christian church, the fact that I belong to a fellowship of believers.

 

I also have a small pin with the United Church crest that I wear proudly to symbolize my commitment to the UCC.  When we are getting some really bad publicity (like in the 80s over ordaining homosexuals - or a few years ago over some comments by our moderator), I make sure I wear it.  Sometimes people ask me about it and I welcome the opportunity to talk about my church and its theology (to the degree they seem interested).

 

 

GRR's picture

GRR

image

I doubt that Christianity will ever *not* see the cross as its central symbol. It's simply been too much a part of the mythology of the faith for too long. That we've tried to clean up the image by moving to an empty cross is something I suppose.

 

But I agree with those who emphasize the Resurrection over the Crucifixion. That our relationship with God cannot be severed is, for me, the core message of Jesus the Christ.

 

That the world still continues to destroy any who clearly and unequivocally name that relationship is the message of the cross and Jesus the man.

elisabeth's picture

elisabeth

image

I like the cross symbol although I sympathize with the folk who feel that wearing a cross is a little like wearing a little gallows or electric chair around our necks. For me the cross though reminds that Jesus took on the establishment and though they thought that they won the political battle, in fact through the resurrection they lost. It is a very political symbol. It is the reminder that God does not support corrupt dominant political and religious structures and that we as Christians are duty bound, if we truly seek to follow Jesus’ path, to sacrifice in order to fulfill the will of God. The fish on the other hand is a far gentler symbol as it is the one that the Christian community used to identify themselves to each other. The dove of course is the wonderful feminism aspect of Christianity – the Holy Spirit. 

 
I personally choose to wear a Celtic cross which has a circle inside it which represents the circle of life. It also connects me to my own ancestral roots. My understanding is that this is an ancient pre-Christian symbol. I like the connection to my ancient ancestors. I also wear a native amulet that a First Nations friend made me. It has the Native Salmon on it and in the corner a carved Christian fish. I think that the west coast story of the salmon and the story of Jesus and his ministry share lovely similarities in their imageries. For years I wore a dove but I am not sure where my dove went. I love the symbol of the dove. 
oui's picture

oui

image

The traditional christian cross has never appealed to me much.   It doesn't carry a lot of significance for me, and any cross jewellery I did have, I didn't enjoy wearing.

 

I have a gold ankh finger ring (ancient Egyptian symbol of life and love, sort of like a cross) that I have worn continuously for over 25 years.  I change my rings all the time, except for that one, its my favourite.

 

 

I also really like the First Nations medicine wheel, which is a circle divided  into 4 sections, each with a different colour, direction, and meaning.  It encourages a full appreciation of all that is the circle of life.  It covers the 4 directions, plus above, below and inside.  Here is a link that goes into more detail:

 

http://www.shannonthunderbird.com/medicine_wheel_teachings.htm

 

 

This, to me, has a much fuller and more balanced symbolism than the cross.

Neo's picture

Neo

image

Interesting comments, I particularly liked the image of wearing a gallows around the neck. This has always been the way I viewed the crucifix. But the bare cross symbolizing the resurrection is a concept I had never associated the cross with. Interesting.

Many had mentioned that they liked to display the fish symbol, which is, as you probably know, the symbol that Christianity adopted due to the fact that Christianity is governed by the sign of Pisces, which is a constellation depicted as two fish, one swimming downward towards toward the earth and the other swimming upwards towards the heavens and both joined together by a band, representing the Soul.

I see the cross much like the Oui sees it, as an old and reused symbol representing the four corners of the Earth. To me the cross represents completeness, a coming about full circle. But there are, as some of you may know, 3 crosses of interest in our heavens. Astrologers call them the Cardinal Cross, the Fixed Cross and the Mutable Cross, each of which represents 4 signs of the Zodiac, of which each sign, in turn, represents one of the 4 elements: earth, fire, water and air. You have, therefore, an interlocking of energies represented, for instance, by a Cardinal Fire sign (Aries), a Cardinal Water sign (Cancer), a Cardinal Air sign (Libra) and a Cardinal Earth sign (Capricorn). And so on with the signs of the Fixed and Mutable crosses until you have 12 the signs of the Zodiac. These 3 crosses were also symbolized on Calvary, with the Christ upon the middle or fixed cross of the crucifixion. Each cross provides a point of crises wherein one steps off the ordinary path (of involution) and treads the path of discipleship (of evolution).

 

The Fixed Cross is represented by the signs Aquarius the Man, Taurus the Bull, Leo the Lion, and Scorpio the Scorpion (of which the higher aspect is interchangeable with an Eagle), and were described by as Ezekiel in the words: "As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side; and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle." In the Book of Revelations we find the same astrological symbology: "And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes, before and behind. And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast was like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle."

There are literally volumes written on the cross and it's hidden meanings and I could go on (as many of those who know me can attest). I particularly like the concept of three crosses working together as a whole, represent the integrating, fusing and synthesizing of the personality into the higher self, i.e. Each of these crosses, the Cross of the Hidden Christ - the Mutable Cross, the Cross of the Crucified Christ - the Fixed Cross, and the Cross of the Risen Christ - the Cardinal Cross, represents major points of crises and subsequent attainment upon the path of discipleship and initiation.

 

jensamember's picture

jensamember

image

Hey CH,

 

For me the cross is a reminder of all Jesus did for us...He did it for everyone not just those willing to acknowledge it.

 

On the cross, Jesus bored our sickness, carried our infirmaties, He was wounded, bruised and left alone all so that we would not have to...but mostly His resurrection (the empty) cross means He defeated death so we could live eternally. The cross just isn't about His death and resurrection but that He carried His own cross...through the streets, it was heavy, it wasn't easy and He didn't deserve to have it happen...He chose it for our sake.

 

The movie 'The Passion of The Christ' has such an amazing representation of the journey of the cross...it was the first time I could nearly imagine His actual sacrifice...it was obviously worse then they could portray.

 

A symbol is just a symbol unless it means something to you.

Diana's picture

Diana

image

I see the cross as a symbol of the power of love that overcomes even death.

I like the Celtic cross - the one with the circle.  To me it is a symbol of the intersection of the vertical (spiritual) plane with the horizontal (physical) plane, and the intersection of the 2 is the stillpoint where we find God.  That stillpoint is the place where we should try to live our lives.  The circle represents the endless flow between life and death, connected by love.

I don't wear a cross; as a public school teacher I don't think it's appropriate at work.  But I do decorate my desk & car with little butterflies, which to me symbolize new life beyond death, and also the beauty, power and inherent value of every life, no matter how short or seemingly insignficant.

paradox3's picture

paradox3

image

Diana wrote:

I see the cross as a symbol of the power of love that overcomes even death.

Yes, I agree with you, Diana.  The symbol is all the more powerful when the brutality of the cross is acknowledged. 

Diana wrote:

I don't wear a cross; as a public school teacher I don't think it's appropriate at work. 

Likewise for me, working in the mental health field.

The Liberal's picture

The Liberal

image

Hey CH,

I've thought about this often and especially because in these parts (Mr. Harper's "hometown") the cross has been essentially permanently associated with fundy Christianity...  and it is very very "uncool" in the educated, left-leaning and alternative-minded circles.  I found this out the hard way - I wear a cross, an open cross (empty), and people jump to conclusions like there's no tomorrow.  So, for me, it's almost an act of subversion!  To wear a cross and NOT be a fundy!  Something unthought of! lol

 

I grew up in a land (Poland, to be precise) where wearing a cross was as normal as wearing clothes.  You got one as soon as you were old enough not to rip it off your neck by accident, and you wore it everyday.  So, for me this is part of its significance - it is part of my identity, even though I am not a Catholic and do not believe that it will "protect"  from evil or "endear" me to God (that would be a simplistic interpretation but still has some validity... It does "protect" me from being subjected to "good hearted" anti-Christian humour, and it does "endear" or remind me of the fact that my relationship with God is central in my life). 

 

Mostly, I wear the cross because I identify as a follower of Christ -  he is my "guru", my guide, and the cross  was/is the starting point of much of Christianity... 

 

One other thing - the cross is also a symbol of the spiritual and the material intersecting/meeting in humanity (and in Jesus and all spiritual masters especially).

 

 

eric19's picture

eric19

image

The cross is symbolic of the sufferings that Jesus Christ endured while on the earth.  In the bible it is written about how Jesus "took up his cross", or in other words, suffered in order not to commit sin. 99.9% of people don't believe that it is possible to follow after Jesus. They make up excuses like, "God came down to earth as a human, and it was impossible for him to sin." It clearly states throughout Paul's letters and the entire new testament that God sent his son "in the likeness of sinful flesh". (Rom. 8:3) And also, "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) Jesus inherited a sinful flesh just like ours, but it took a zeal on his part to overcome, and he didn't fall in sin once. Therefore it is possible for you and I to overcome, just as he overcame.  

We are exorted in Matthew to take up our cross daily. "and he who does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me". (10:38) This doesn't mean taking up a small wooden cross and hanging it around your neck, it means following after jesus, and "walking in his footsteps".

It is of utmost importance to read God's word (the Bible) and believe what is written. It is possible to go forward from now on without sinning. (1 John 2:1) "My little children, these things I write to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the rightous."

I hope that this is understandable. If you can understand to take up your cross and follow him, you will experience peace and joy like you didn't think was possible. (Rom. 8:6) "For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." And in Hebrews 1 verse 9 it is written of Jesus, "You have loved rightousness and hated lawlessness, therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness more than your companions."

                                                                                                  

 

Panentheism's picture

Panentheism

image

crazyheart wrote:

I am having trouble  getting my head around the symbolization of the Cross. We talk about it, we have a cross on the altar, we wear them around our neck. but what does it really mean to those who do not take the story literally as written.

 

 

What is the significence of the cross and what we are suppose to do with it?

The cross was a late symbol and it was empty - the so called dead Jesus on the cross does not come until about 900 -  the dead Jesus has his eyes closed rather than an early icon with Jesus looking at us with his eyes open.

 

Remember the cross was used by the Romans to kill nobodies - slaves, opposing political prisoners - never for a Roman citizen - thus the cross was a very negative symbol - a sign of this person was a nobody and dangerous.    Thus to use the cross as symbol was to take on the image of a nobody and one who was in tension with the empire - it was not a salvic image.

Panentheism's picture

Panentheism

image

crazyheart wrote:

I am having trouble  getting my head around the symbolization of the Cross. We talk about it, we have a cross on the altar, we wear them around our neck. but what does it really mean to those who do not take the story literally as written.

 

 

What is the significence of the cross and what we are suppose to do with it?

The cross was a late symbol and it was empty - the so called dead Jesus on the cross does not come until about 900 -  the dead Jesus has his eyes closed rather than an early icon with Jesus looking at us with his eyes open.

 

Remember the cross was used by the Romans to kill nobodies - slaves, opposing political prisoners - never for a Roman citizen - thus the cross was a very negative symbol - a sign of this person was a nobody and dangerous.    Thus to use the cross as symbol was to take on the image of a nobody and one who was in tension with the empire - it was not a salvic image.

The Liberal's picture

The Liberal

image

Panentheism wrote:

Thus to use the cross as symbol was to take on the image of a nobody and one who was in tension with the empire - it was not a salvic image.

 

I think that is why  for me wearing the cross  has this feel of being subversive... 

lastpointe's picture

lastpointe

image

I think the fact that the cross was a nasty way for Romans to kill is an important part of it symbolism.

the empty cross signifying the resurrection

the cross symbolising that Jesus was a lowly person, one of the masses

 

Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

image

and so a personal symbol.  I have a concern about displaying it without explanation.  We know it is not widely interpreted that way, so we are in effect allowing our voice & heart to be drowned out by a different message. 

Eric19- welcome to the cafe.  Your last part of your post said 'if you take up the cross, you will experience joy' - (basically) - ok, I get that.  Its the other stuff I don't buy into in the same way, and so I would like to distance myself from it.

hmmm- problem still remains that nearly any Christian symbol carries those discomforts.  So I guess that how we use them and share them with honesty & authenticity is the crucial part. 

Panentheism's picture

Panentheism

image

I guess I have no problem with people wearing the cross - for some rap musicians it is a piece of jewelery - yes it is open to all sorts of misinformation and some will get the correct meaning - I have problem in our culture of branding - why the problem with the cross - we have no problem with selling brands with our shoes and clothes.

Arminius's picture

Arminius

image

I have no problem with others wearing or displaying the cross. I just don't like it, personally.

 

I sometimes wear my equal-armed silver cross, with a long-stemmed P down the vertical beam and an x over the lower part of the stem on the downward arm of the cross, and the Greek letters alpha and omega on the two side arms of the cross.

 

I like the St. Andrew's cross on the UCC crest; it could be seen as an X as easily as a cross. (Must have been those Celtic Christian Prebyterian Scots snubbing their noses at Rome :-)

Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

image

I saw a car with the Darwin fish and knew I was coming back to post - I want a fish, with the cross in it, and feet.  That would make a statement, and even if people didn't get it, they might just ask, and then understand.  It would show a useful difference but respect for faith.  I think.  Would it?

Arminius's picture

Arminius

image

I best like () as a religious symbol, the Vesica Piscis, the pointed oval depicted vertically (the shape of the UCC crest) It is not only a Christian symbol for Grace, it is also the Arabic "Baraka," their symbol for Grace.

 

() is also a feminine symbol and a universal Goddess symbol. It is symbolic of the feminine principle in spirituality, which is woefully underrated in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

 

In Catholicism, though, Mary, Mother of God, is frequently depicted inside a pointed oval. And I know one Christian women, the goodliest Christian I have met so far in my life, who had the vertical pointed oval as a lifetime mystical vision, ever since she was a little girl.

Arminius's picture

Arminius

image

Birthstone wrote:

I saw a car with the Darwin fish and knew I was coming back to post - I want a fish, with the cross in it, and feet.  That would make a statement, and even if people didn't get it, they might just ask, and then understand.  It would show a useful difference but respect for faith.  I think.  Would it?

 

Yes, Birthstone, it would make a statement about the union between Christian religion and science, and the statement that the evolutionary process is God's creative process, and also the statement that God is the natural world, or in the natural world.

 

I wonder how many people would get it?

Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

image

more than if I just had a fish or a cross, and more would ask questions. 

I like the symbol you described too, particularly the way the UCC has been showing it, off set & stylized - very pretty.

 

Namaste's picture

Namaste

image

Hey Birthstone - have you ever seen the one where it's a fish with a cross in it kissing the fish with feet that says "Darwin"? Now, that would definitely spark some conversation!

Arminius's picture

Arminius

image

Namaste wrote:

Hey Birthstone - have you ever seen the one where it's a fish with a cross in it kissing the fish with feet that says "Darwin"? Now, that would definitely spark some conversation!

 

Thanks, namaste! I'll have to look for that one and post it in our church hall. 

SG's picture

SG

image

I always wore a Magen David and always in silver, because something personal in me could not see positive symbolism  in wearing a yellow star. When I began attending church, it hung on my neck. It invited many conversations that profoundly changed lives, my own among them.

 

I needed something that suited me and I found a necklace with a cross and a Magen David on it. They have crosses with the star on the cross. The one I wear is a star with a cross inside it.

 

It symbolizes my personal journey.

 

The cross is actually pre-Christian. There are a number of Christian symbolisms in the cross or crucifix that do not do it for me. I certainly don't worship the cross/crucifix and am not into the sacrifice and atonement thing or even into bodily ressurrection.  My wearing of that symbol is the same as wearing a class ring or my year of the horse necklace. It is what I belong to or what belongs to me, who I am... nothing more and nothing lessm, but that is lots.  

tonton's picture

tonton

image

The cross is a symbol in remembrance of the sacrifice for made for mankind. However; many people wear it as though it holds some kind of power. the cross itself holds no power. It is the faith one has concerning what happen on the cross. the price that was paid so that we would have the gift of repentance and not be condemned when we make a mistake or fall into sin. we can boldly go to the throne of grace, grace is undeserved favor as often as we need to, until we find power to get rid of that sin in us. now many people think it was a death with no reason. not at all. it was a death that has been made to give mankind the gift of reconciliation back with god. If you wear a cross in rememberance of that. its ok. if you think the power is in the cross itself, not at all, the power is in our faith, believing that christ died for us. so that we would be on the right side of judgement. He made it easy for us. Before the cross. people were stoned or worst for doing little or nothing. christ came to show the world that you cannot know god if you do not know love, and forgiveness. that is the power of the cross. satanist wear crosses all the time. they would not be able to if there was power in the symbol. but the power is in the holy spirit. Satanist could not stand the holy spirit in the same room with them. because the holy spirit is the truth even to them. you don't even hear them speak of it. that is the spirit that binds demons. not the symbol of the cross....be blessed

Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

image

Namaste wrote:

Hey Birthstone - have you ever seen the one where it's a fish with a cross in it kissing the fish with feet that says "Darwin"? Now, that would definitely spark some conversation!

how very cool

spockis53's picture

spockis53

image

tonton wrote:

The cross is a symbol in remembrance of the sacrifice for made for mankind. However; many people wear it as though it holds some kind of power

..........etc.........

but the power is in the holy spirit. Satanist could not stand the holy spirit in the same room with them. because the holy spirit is the truth even to them. you don't even hear them speak of it. that is the spirit that binds demons. not the symbol of the cross....be blessed

 

TonTon,

 

Lotsa proclamations there, TT.  All of it unsupported personal opinion.

 

Do you preserve any thinking energy for dealing with the here and now?

 

LL&P

Spock

LumbyLad's picture

LumbyLad

image

crazyheart wrote:

I am having trouble  getting my head around the symbolization of the Cross. We talk about it, we have a cross on the altar, we wear them around our neck. but what does it really mean to those who do not take the story literally as written.

It seems quite a simple answer. If we don't take the story of the crucifixion literally, the cross may mean nothing. To the traditional Christian the cross stands for the idea that "Christ died for our sins on the cross". It can be that simple, regardless of whether we "like" the symbol or not. What's to have trouble with?

 

If you want to have trouble with the cross, be someone like me who identifies with the Christian faith, attends the United Church, but does not believe that Jesus was on the right track; indeed he went along with an old Jewish Messiah calling/yearning that caused him to forsake his family to become "the son of God", divine and all that. The cross for me stands for the foolishness of a great Teacher. Whenever I see people who wear the cross, I form the idea that they are traditional Christians and I wonder, "how can a smart person like this, believe something like that?"  I think I am a bit intolerant in this response. Who cares?  Yet I have no trouble with the cross symbols in our Church. I wear the peace dove carved in wood and prefer this symbol. I don't know why someone who does not take the crucifixion/ressurection story literally would feel great about the cross symbol. It was an execution tool. But remember Christ likely DID die on the cross, even if he did not ressurect, so don't sweat the small stuff. Just let the cross be OK for all of us for different reasons.

just curious's picture

just curious

image

Just wondering why you wouldn't wear your cross to work?

blessedtoes's picture

blessedtoes

image

I do not take the Bible literally as written, but believe it is an indispensable moral compass.  I also believe the meaning of the sacrifice Jesus made - which I belive actually happened - is the deepest meaning any of our lives can have.

As someone who acknowledges human frailty and imperfection and sees that as a beautiful part of the soul's journey, I think the cross as symbol is a cop-out.  It allows us to use a "reference point" to remember Jesus' sacrifice and to be good, loving people every day instead of just owning that in our hearts and calling ourselves forward to conduct ourselves in that way.

I also find it funny that so many conservative christians spit at others about graven images and not putting false gods before Him while wearing a cross around their neck or standing in front of one....

swplan76's picture

swplan76

image

If Jesus is an extension of God, or God Himself (mystery) then Jesus dying on the cross reveals that God is willing to do everything/anything for humanity, to show us that He is dedicated and that He loves us.

 

Why death?  Abraham came out of a culture that sacrificed things to on altars to the gods.  People have tried to figure out how to connect with the divine for all of human existence (potentially).  We want answers to questions.  We want to have the favour of the gods in order to help us with the hunt and with growing crops - this kind of thinking exists in most religious movements and is fairly basic to human thinking. 

 

The basic problem with the altar is this: once you give 2, you can't go back to giving 1 - the gods will know and they will not be happy if you give 1, so you have to keep upping the stakes.  There was one religious movement that demanded that each couple kill and sacrifice their first born child, so that they might receive the blessings of their god and so they might prosper from then on.  There was one religious movement that worshipped a goddess and men who were devoted to the goddess, as a sign of their commitment to her, all ritually castrated themselves and burnt their testicles on her altar (I think historians (or who ever they are) said there were 5000 men,.. I guess that means 10,000 testicles (for the most part)).  The problem with the altar is that the stakes just increase until you find yourself killing your first born, or castrating yourself - it doesn't work.

 

In Abraham's time various gods were emerging and sacrifice was expected.  Abraham continued sacrifice in his relationship with God.  Why, because that is what people do with gods.  So, God takes Abraham up on to a mountain and tells him to sacrifice his son.  In the last moment, as Abraham was about to kill Isaac, God stopped Abe and told him to untie his son and go get a Ram that was caught in a nearby thicket.  Why?

 

Its been suggested that God brought Abe to that point so He could tell Abe that God is not like the gods.  God will not ask for ridiculous sacrifice, or more than we can handle.  The place became known as "God Provides" - maybe this is the message - God provides for us.  We do not do what is right.  We sin.  We make mistakes, but He forgives and not only does He forgive, He paid for our forgiveness even before we sinned.  He paid the ultimate price.  Maybe I deserve to die for my sins, but instead of letting me get what I deserve, Jesus died in my place.

 

Jesus' blood changes everything.  It represents hope for humanity.  It represents healing.  It represents God's intense love for us.  It represents God's ability to overcome anything, even death.  God is unstoppable - that is what the cross means.  The cross means that you and I don't have to kill animals and offer that kind of sacrifice any more - the blood bath is done with.

 

Before Jesus came, God had one nation - Israel.  After Jesus came, God's people were emerging everywhere.  The message of the gospel began to spread beyond borders.  "Turn the other cheek" means do not engage in war in "the way the world wages war;" Christians are meant to operate through love and peace and the power of the Holy Spirit.  Conquering other nations doesn't make sense for Christians because all people are being called to come to God and be His people.  The cross means that domination and oppression can be overcome and that people who follow this cross are joining the Creator of the universe in reclaiming and renewing all things.  Death cannot stop us.  His way is life.

just curious's picture

just curious

image

blessedtoes wrote:

I do not take the Bible literally as written, but believe it is an indispensable moral compass.  I also believe the meaning of the sacrifice Jesus made - which I belive actually happened - is the deepest meaning any of our lives can have.

As someone who acknowledges human frailty and imperfection and sees that as a beautiful part of the soul's journey, I think the cross as symbol is a cop-out.  It allows us to use a "reference point" to remember Jesus' sacrifice and to be good, loving people every day instead of just owning that in our hearts and calling ourselves forward to conduct ourselves in that way.

I also find it funny that so many conservative christians spit at others about graven images and not putting false gods before Him while wearing a cross around their neck or standing in front of one....

Well for many the cross is just that, a symbol, not something to bow to or pray to and expect a response from. No different than peace symbols.It's just a reflection of something you believe in and people always want to share a part of themselves with others one way or another.To me the empty cross means Christ has risen and my debt is paid. If anyone asks me about my faith because of the symbol, it can open a door to someone not knowing the sacrifice of a God that loves unconditionally.

Back to Religion and Faith topics
cafe