sounds good to me. I would only add my impressionism that fundamentalists are obsessed with themselves. The often follow the Bible rigorously not to live a life with the principles Jesus taught. They do it to get themselves into heaven. I've seen them close to drooling with joy when they talk of those who are going to hell.

...very interesting!

Lots of good stuff there to discuss.....

Mulling it over ..... thank you!

Rita

Hi Rowan,

A resonable statement that I have no quarrel with.

Grace and peace to you.

John

One only need post in Christian sites south of the border to see the truth in that statement.

LOL ... how sadly true not4prophet!!!!!

Regards

Rita

gotta watch out for those Spanish Catholics -- they're passionate ;3

Renouncing sin is good, but God forgives.

Father, forgive us our sins, as we forgive others. Amen?

I wasn't talking Mexico...

It is interesting how a letter circulated a hundred years ago stating fundamental principals got turned into yet another denomination combining nation, finance and God, on a platform resembling multi-level marketing schemes.

Neither was i, though your statement does fit

a G_d`s gotta eat, so its just good sense to increase the food supply...

Hi Rowan, 

 After reading the statement you posted I was interested to learn more about this group and followed the link.  I was impressed by the level of tolerance expressed. 

I am curious to know what is the percentage of Christians who consider themselves to be fundamentalist.   If you inculded in the group those individuals who now consider themselves spiritual, but not religious, how does the number change?

I think you have to be careful with lumping all fundamentalists together. There are some fundamentalists who believe in the tenets of fundamentalist Christianity, but who are wonderful people and would rather cut out their tongue than speak il or badly toward another peron, or treat anyone with disrespect.

On the other hand there are thoe who use fundamentalism as the scaffolding upon which to hang their prejudices and bigotry, as is being a fundamentalist in name somehow gives them the right to be as abusive of the rights and dignity of others as they please. These are the peope I usually call "fundies" so as to be distinct from fundamentalists.

One way to tell the difference between a fundie and a fundamentalist is by the way they choose a bible. A fundamentalist will choose a Bible based on readability, durability, and presence of study aids. A fundie will choose a Bible based on heft, weight, and potential for blunt force trauma.

This group seems to have a fairly succinct definition of what kind of fundamentalists / fundamentalism they are talking about. From my original post: "Fundamentalism, which we define as asserting the absolute truth and completeness of one’s own beliefs and practices, to the deliberate exclusion of possible truth in other beliefs and practices". To me that rather neatly sums up the sort of people you refer to as 'fundies'. 

I do like your point about Bible selection. That last bit about the potential for blunt force trauma certainly produces a fascinating mental image at any rate.

Thanks for the post, Rowan.

Baylacey.  Most of the Quaker groups I am familiar with tend to express a high degree of tolerance toward both other Christian groups and various non-Christian faiths. Freedom Friends seems to run more to the liberal end of the Quaker spectrum but even the most conservative Quaker groups I have run across do not generally express the kind of intolerance you sometimes see even in some of the most liberal of Christian denominations. I think it has something to do with their concepts of discernment and 'the light within' - they seem to take a far more personal degree of responsibility for the potential consequences of intolerance than many others.

Jim Kenny, I am curious as to why you are thanking me for initiating this thread.

Although the light within is in all of us, IMO many who do not see it that way assume the light within themselves must be passed on to others rather than awakening it in others, creating them in one's own image seeking out like minded or safety in numbers, rather than encouraging the light to shine in each in their individual way. Of course then the problem arises how will others use that light in conflict with their own and the struggle for supremacy begins. The very reason God expelled us from the Garden as we began to self discern right and wrong according to our own will. That light was not ours to tamper with.

I'd accept that statement as is. Cheers, Rowan!

It is the intolerance of fundamentalism that it rejects. In a relativistic and egocentric society and era, intolerance of intolerance is sometimes seen as the bigotry of a bigot calling out another bigot.

But I'd maintain that the violence — spiritual, social, personal and ohysical — done by religious intolerance makes it plainly obectionable.  But then I'm not exactly impartial about absolutism in any form, despotism, dictatorship, monarchy, oppression, totalitarianism , tyranny, imperialism, colialism, fascism or classism either. I'm just ridden with intolerance, I guess.

Is fundamentalism something to stumble over a a bloc to thinking?

It is foundational to regurgitational learning ... the repetition of what your heard without process! one should think about that contrary to the way it appears ... like God, spiritual entities are different that appearances of real things ... yet Roman authorities say that such thinkers are devilish things ... hard to put down as they come back to haunt you.

Is that sort of like Mar teirs, or layers of battles giving martyrs a life of their own beyond what's physical?

Could be complex ... like Imaginary Numbers ... hosts of eM!

I thank you, Rowan, because the content you quoted was relevant and well-phrased, speaking to a concern that often comes up on Wondercafe about intolerance.  I appreciated you taking the time to share it with those of us in WC.

"That light was not ours to tamper with."

How does this relate to the way word of god(s) has been redacted over millenia?

It appears to some of us as a negative evolution; perhaps a homeopathic way to reduce the mortal population with their own toxicity? This is called Dilution Theory in psychology ... can some professional psychologists support this comment?

Who really are the healers of the soul; the light of cognizance of where danger lies?

Perhaps we'd rather not know ... and this train of thought goes on ... like soul a real hummer, or just omi/oem in a native way that's natural to evolve without thought into an unmanagable floc! Then thought appears to evolve beyond us ... in myth? An infinite conception ... virgin to mortal conceptions!

Something to come to grips with, but many are stuck on the old ideas of infinite growth in the physical sense ... regardless to the boundrys of this type of evolution. Sets thinking devils into fits of plasma ...

WaterBuoy's quote "that light was not ours to tamper with." is making me very thoughtful. I googled it but was unable to find where it originated. Also, when WaterBouy elaborates on something, I am apt to become more lost than before.

naman ..... try a few glasses of a nice quality wine to relax your mind...

...then slowly read WaterBuoy's posts .........

Worked for me  .... at least partially......

Regards

Rita

Rita, I dunno. It might not lead me to very sober thought and put me more out of step than ever.

naman  ..... out of step is not so bad......

Regards

Rita

Originally Posted on: 01/20/2013 13:23

I am sure WaterBuoy will help with the origins of the quote....

.... regardless .... rather profound isn't it?

That made me consider "the speed of enlightenment"   does it have a finite limit?

And as we approach that speed does time slow down and stop?

Yep ..... one too many glasses of wine

Sincere Regards and a clink of the glass....

Rita

Thanks, Rita (for the glass of wine).

MY problem, a few glasses of wine (large glasses) -- I slowly read him,

-- A few more glasses and I understand him! I take copious notes. after an eleven hour nap, I find that I have no idea what those totally incomprehensible notes might mean.

I've done this time and time again...(sigh) Some people never learn. Wait! That's what he said!

Try "that light was not ours with which to tamper'

-- up comes "Fameous lines by "Water Buoy" 840pp, $43,00 At your local book store now!

Everybody loves a good whine ...

Anonymous sounds that disturb the autonomous ... the emotional just are ... they grow out of it with experience of life ... putting some of us out of it before our time. The autonomous doesn't have to think or care about anything ... an Eire state to be in for those of us that have experienced a bit ... where does such come from? Nothing, nowhere's; neva-neva land doesn't exist in real eyes ... a hindrance of the netherlands, deuce of a thing ... stored in the back of de head as if indi pits ... aboriginal hole of thought as in Plato's projection ...

Of what? Start by getting beyond the intuitive ... questioning your assumptions that you assumed that started the way you are!

That's where that quote came from ... the anonymous ... a process that gets the authoritatively autonomous bouncing ... creatin light as it danses across the waters to be whetted by unknown rhetoric ... one should did into what you assume came from beyond and maybe is was within your inner Circe. Is that posible that the wee dark spot has no bottom tuit? The source is common, an arena we don't know as we forgot more than we know ... you can draw from the unconscious tho' ... as if they are the near dead resurrected as an idiom ... a mire phase in wee folk that are not supposed to know or care? That'sah Roman decree ... the way they liked it ffor their benefit!

Bo'Sun of the mind as wee spark (pix-eLs) the autonomously wealthy looks right over the sublime that's in Celtic spirit are our people ... basis of the market place that was forgotten and stumbled over from time to time bringing down empires ... foundation conceptions as inexperience uses eM?

The H'OBI'd roué's but I am not allowed to say that as an insignificant person in some perspectives that greatly indicate I should be silenced and shunned ... led out of church like that daemon called Jah Zeus ... creature from the depths of the point called centre of gravidy ... an imaginary point in a hollow sphere ... but can entertain a dead ringer ... data's debelle ... as it calls ...

One must invent their own language to speak of things the authority doesn't wish to hear and thus the inoguration of myth in alien tongue ... went on at Babel as a storm. Then is Babel imaginary like Troy? The soul evolves ..

Ever hear of an K'OBI event ... that'sah beyond you sort of thing ... into the abstracts ... where you can draw on ... you don't know what ... an out of the box situation ...

Did you know the Hebrew Rules were carried in a box all coiled up with intent of keeping working nerds secret? Such unheard of things developed into myth ...

Touch on the abstract and touché ... the mind floats ... sometimes this means cutting one'self off from assumptions that have not bin properly worked ... in an imperfect world set up as a place to generate dichotomy ... so you can filter out the extremes and hang them there on the fabric ... tenses up the unfeeling senses ... perhaps a metaphor for something yet little understood as that inqui spot ... an icon ... where the ember fell?

Do you suppose the devil has Ur idealisms as well .. that's a deep hole like a pit on the page ... floated as icon ... Semite? People tend towards anti-semite roots and anti-socailism as self limiting functions of those without thought ... that is confined to emotional collapse ... an opposing mental condition to intellectual don ...

That aught to stir the autonomous po'eL ... like stump on the fringe ... knobbi wort where f(rogues) rest ... slow down and digest that which bug' dem! As similation, or assi mile ante ... being milled out! Soak that up ... in the abstract! Then the inner part can process ... one must a'Muse the inner dimensions ... isolated from the mon-o-type zero sum, hung up in the fabric ... is that phun or just phi phum, metaphorically foe phum nowhere's you'd know ... Exclusion Principle--- a Pauline thing-heh like a þ in the side of nowhere's ... if you had a mind to go there! 

Like John's it is a common wealth ...

Thanks, MIke

"MY problem, a few glasses of wine (large glasses) -- I slowly read him,

-- A few more glasses and I understand him! I take copious notes. after an eleven hour nap, I find that I have no idea what those totally incomprehensible notes might mean.

I've done this time and time again...(sigh) Some people never learn. Wait! That's what he said!"

Like the god enigma ... he can't grasp what isn't ... only what is ... the hidden message in the story of giving away all your monies (monii?) is the contemplation of what's left. To the medium this isn't a problem in a balanced life of settling for just enough and thinking about "other" things instead of worrying about the fortunes ... intangeable as the dark Ness ... the unseen poeL?

Is there anything more exciting to those without, than poking it? Heiseinberg Principle on unobservable things ... things to look into as inner dimensions yet unprobed!

Makes even the devilish type giggle and autocrats won't accept that! Is that almost dichotomous, bifarcal, or even divine as two shades of 'elle ... one about toby consumed? By the alternateof course ... with parallels in other dimensions ... hermuenetic as yet ... un whetted for such stuff!

Dan ... where's de tree ... down under a harry spot for Wiles to dry de socs ... Ayers form? Anybody read into Mutant Message From Down Under? Whets the curiosity about metaphorical existence ... in icon form! Mire inque dots? Rho's-arch-eis Tuff ... as extractions ... phun to fondle ... like plae 'n th'psyche!

Is everything bigger than you are ... and quickly receeding?

That's all-there-is to the competetive edge over psyche and why chi's oude there ...

Part of what ... you haven't completely engaged yet? Its a battle in a misogynous world that has great depth tuit asvasti Ur shoe than you have ever been supported by buoy ... a floater to say least. Such things can raise a deluge of word ... a dark flood?

Hey Rita. Will you please pour me another glass?  WaterBuoy's posts are leaving me stranded. I do not seem to be able to absorb them.

So I would appreciate either another glass of wine from Rita or a translation of what Waterbuoy is saying.

naman;

Just take ID as a floating thought ... something removed from our gifts by the Roman Master ... wee people take no mind to this character and don't think about it ... behave as you have no access to mind ...

And yet it's out there ... shunned by mortal! In the central issue ... mind is filtered out ... overun by emotions as a lesson?

That's life for yah ... whine oops that wasn't grape but the product of beir'n up ... I de pharted!

All because of the strain of holding that all in ...

...it does take a while and it takes patience naman.....

In astronomy we learn to use averted vision to see the fainter celestial objects through the telescope.   I would suggest a similar averted reading of WaterBuoy's posts.   Don't look directly at them ...... sort of consider the faint snippets that you catch from time to time.    Its actually a worthwhile excercise

Regards

Rita

Thanks, Waterbuoy. Thanks, Rita.  I will wait and see how my feeble mind responds. It would have responded faster to another glass of wine but I will give my intellect another college try instead.

3 days.. thousands of words later...  time to clear this up.

That would take some alien light in the present darkness taught by many churches ... ie; you don't wish to know is what they tell us ...

Perhaps thet too don't know!

How much trouble would your dog or cat (let alone a tweenager)  cause you (let alone mankind if it spread) if you woke up one day and they had discovered the knowledge of good and evil?

Po' my soul ... they did find ID ...

And some authorities out there told me I lost IT ...

How about todays scripture off my calendar for a clue ... II Pedre 1:4 ...

The granting of a precious ring about us ... isn't that Precious ... that ugly medium again? Hanging there between the good and bad ... a filtering agent like sans? That which is without emotion ... stuck on d' enigma? Abstract dogma is all we need ... two parts ...thinking and caring about what is placed in your line of intelligence ... even if it is a curve ... balled as you see it going ... eerie to face ...?

Didn't somebody grow a myth out of that ... then it went all filmy!

Move'n fractals of light ...

A truly memorable line.

The rest? I haven't a clue.

That's because rich mortals haven't a clue of what's out there as a support system ... they stand alone in the eventual fall ... never made it into the world of the other sole ...

Bottom line demos; you can't escape eM and they appear the same from both sides, something we have to live with as best we can until we pass thro' devale ... take it as you see it ... as mortal I cannot alter your thoughts just tell you mine ... and mortals tend not to believe anything but their own tradition ... often corrupted by NV! It is an mire godthing ... earthy? Satyr-like Shadows proliferate on the fall of light ...

Dichotomy of words? This is best expressed in the aspect of physics whereas you cannot make something out of nothing without making a pure opposing thing: thus the concept of something and nothing. If those that are something don't believe in the nothings ... the whole thing collapses into an indeterminate hole ... as the quark evaporates ... perhaps condenses to nothing.

Does dark absorb light of those carrying torches? Is there an inverse form ...  areciprocal Ego as mental reflection? It is a thin incidence in an overly emotional world (that's part of the primary belief system, thoughts are out there). Thank god nothing is perfect ... a black spot open to interpretation ... "damn'd spot Toby 'n"!

S Hawking would be thrilled to learn the observations thereof ... like being inside entropy; a state of loss of randomness (negative order)? Sort of like jetsam in Joan-awes fascination with the voyage of the what's Ur Name ... unspeakable! It is a larger bote ... speaking or worming situations below the line of sight ... unless your a pathologist like Da Vinci ... observing the dead and their reasons to be! Something to cause someone to create myth ... something beyond reason ... real people don't take to reason too well ... too close to that b'ichthii character psyche ... permanantly oppressed (sublime, or hypnotic) in this dimension. A sublime thing of the underworld (hypnotic state) that keeps pushing things like a tree of knowledge at us ... and we choose not to be aware!

Think of Ur as Eyore mudda ... then picture Walter Brennan making RIFFs, RILLs in de mire thing ... that's the dirt ... bottom line? That mu-eL, old riva and meis ...

That should put things in another state of order. Ho'dah thunk IT?

Naman....if you can read the post and listen to the words said, rather than the word read, you will be better able to interpret waterbuoy's posts....ie buoy = boy, sole = soul.

Now there's a singular perspective from a portion of God's fractal ... we bits of the whole thing?

If you gather shieves of the aboriginal tree ... something will light ... a spark will arrive under it ... as light appeared in the darkness of Genesis ... or as Juda' had an incident with Tamyir ... a very discontented lady deprived of her birthright ... this tale could go on and on once you get a grip on ID ...

Makes wee daemons chimerii with whine and giggles ... the humour in the denial of infinite? That's just beyond mortal ideals (gods?) rites ... then there rites of passage ... in bent and warped dimensions allows fro crossings ... so you can come about and see the butt end of ID ... an alien thing to say the least! Self ...

ok, i retract my earlier statement....and change it to" sometimes it helps to....."