Well, Starboy, I have never lived on a farm and know nothing about sheep. But what if you looked at a  more positive description of sheep. They provide when we need it most - wool, meat - maybe so does the church. But for the meat the sheep would have to die first. maybe so does the church that we know.

Starboy,

I know a little bit about sheep.  You will laugh at me when I suggest that your sheep are stressed out, a bit.  Sheep can be weird but, if given a lot of coaxing they can learn, too.  What are their living conditions?  I would say that the sheep that I come into contact with on Van Island the itty Islands around have some pretty relaxed sheep - but the climate here is quite temperate - no extremes really.  (Maybe it's just the green "weed" the sheep are finding in the pasture, who knows?)

As for people.  We aren't related to sheep.  At least not recently.  Still, that doesn't stop us f rom looking like a variety of animal kingdoms and species.  Sometimes we imitate sheep. We can when we are acting in community without wisdom or are utterly confused. Perhaps, this condition was guiding community a lot more around the time of Jesus.  Lately, we have come under the uberspell of individualism, though and we all tend to act more like sociopaths than sheep, I think.  Kids might still have some instinctual group behaviours, dunno.

Anyway, we also imitate, ants, bees, lions, wolves, horses, rats, and the lofty hippopotomii.  If you are sick of sheep look to another animal species or just read more philosophy. It'll work out.  also, go look at a field and just rest a bit.  You sound stressed.

Hi Starboy

I love your profile. You're 14! Gosh, you must be the youngest member here.

Its so sad what happened to the lambs. I'm so sorry and I do hope things will go better next year. Sheep are the least intelligent of the  farm animals I believe (?) and you are comparing them to the church?  Uh...oh...I hope your dad doesn't see this ......  I'm  teasing you....you're thinking of sheep and the flock as in the New T. That's O.K.

I suppose if you don't belong to the church flock you'll belong to another flock of sorts, perhaps unchurched. I'm not sure there's any guarantee they won't scratch and bite on occasion too. If they're free flying like the Canada geese they'll sure make lots of commotion ...!

I'd say you're probably just tired of human nature and you may be expecting the church people to be a notch above some others....er.....ah....I mean more loving, understanding, forgiving ,and all kinds of such nice qualities. I'm sure many or most of them try to do their very best but life plays hardball with us all. Everyone has  their own  character flaws, their own personal problems, family problems etc. Nobody walks free. Hang in there and everything is going to be just fine.

Here's a poem you may enjoy. Its rather funny! Its not meant to insult you in any way.

I was shocked, confused, bewildered
As I entered Heaven's door,
Not by the beauty of it all,
Nor the lights or its decor.

But it was the folks in Heaven
Who made me sputter and gasp—
The thieves, the liars, the sinners,
The alcoholics and the trash.

There stood the kid from seventh grade
Who swiped my lunch money twice.
Next to him was my old neighbor
Who never said anything nice.
Herb, who I always thought
Was rotting away in hell,
Was sitting pretty on cloud nine,
Looking incredibly well.

I nudged Jesus,
"What's the deal?
I would love to hear Your take.
How'd all these sinners get up here?
God must've made a mistake.

"And why's everyone so quiet,
So somber--give me a clue.""
Hush, child," He said, "They're all in shock.
At the thought of seeing you."

(from Mikey's Funnies)
 

I don't know much about sheep.  I take it that they are rather stupid - that they follow the herd - and that they have been domesticated for so many centuries that they more or less depend upon humans for their survival  (ie  lambs born in the cold weather need protection right away). 

I'm not surprised that sometimes ewes reject their young, or that a herd will turn on one that is different.  It would be nice to think that everything is peaceful and well in the animal kingdom.  Not so.  I remember reading Jane Goodall books about Chimpinzees a few years back.  Chimps are very intelligent, and in many ways, very much like humans.  And at first Jane saw a very rosy picture.  Then she began noticing such things as child neglect or lack of parenting skills (particularly among first time mothers and those on the lower end of the social scale).  And bullying and rejection.  One of her saddest reports concerns a Chimp who survived polio, but was crippled.  With great effort he would slowly drag himself over to a group of others, to join them for a social time of sharing and grooming - something very important to their society.  And they would move away - rejecting him - making him an outcast.  As I remember he didn't survive long, not because of the illness but because of his rejection from the group.  So don't be surprised when animals act like - well, like animals.

But there are also stories of compassion and cooperation.  Jane Goodall also reports evidence of this among the apes.  A big sister adopts her little brother when the mother dies.  There is food sharing.  There is care and training of the young.   In fact, as I understand it, many scientists studying animal and human behaviour think that the species that cooperate best are apt to be most successful - that there is survival value in sharing, caring, cooperating, loving and showing compassion. 

Perhaps this might be a new understanding of the kingdom that Jesus taught.  We can learn to live in the kingdom when we learn these things.

Hi Starboy. 

Do you think this might be a philosophical "Dark Night"?

It may be you're very sensitive to suffering (as was the Buddha).   

Talk to someone you respect and trust about this, OK?

Hi Starboy...maybe you're growing into your own skin and realizing that you don't have to think, feel, be like anyone else to approve of yourself...if that's true...hooray for you!!

starboy, it is part of human nature to do the things you describe, but it was the intention of Jesus to draw out other aspects of human nature.  He knew his flock would squabble and bitch but He did give us ways of rising above this.  He taught us to love our neigbour, to be compassionate and, most importantly I think, to forgive.  No flock will ever be perfect but we can live a life of joyand bring this joy to others by following His path.

Starboy,

If you are drawing similarities between the sheep experience and church and wondering "what's the point?", how is church working for you? I don't think it is working like the farm, because as bad as it sounds, I think the church may be making the farm look worse.

See, for me,  I see that in the sheep being born early and dying, no one is responsible or to blame or can be faulted. It happened. The ewe may have wanted the lamb, been the best mother to it...  It was not to be. It simply happened. In the ewe not feeding the lamb, this is also common when there is something wrong with the lamb. It does not always mean something wrong with the ewe. We had a dog who fed a few litters and then was refusing to feed a litter and we took over feeding them with an eyedropper. We lost a few because we could not feed them enough and she rolled on one and killed it. The one that survived for any length of time was eventually put down by the vet. The litter was not able to survive and she knew that.

Trampling also happens as does head butting...

That it is hard on you may mean you are not meant to raise sheep or farm... Then again, maybe you are and are just sensitive about dying and death.  I know many a "gentleman farmer". My brother-in-law is. 

That you see that dynamic played out in church, shows that you are having a hard go with church and maybe it is not for you. Then again,  maybe it is and are a flock tender.

You might just be seeing church as a place flawed and broken humans gather rather than a place the godly and just meet. Think of it like a city person realizing that instead of Mary had a little lamb and sheep with pure, white fleece there are sheep more grey in colour and covered in crap....We all have to face that reality and it is not easy sometimes.

Hi Starboy,

Oh yes, it fits.  Jesus' audience wouldn't have been ignorant of the realities that you point to.  The problem has been with the gentrified city folk and the hallmarkification of what lambs are like.

A lot of Jesus art has him carrying a fluffy clean white lamb happily on his shoulders.

Sheep are not comfortable lying across the shoulders of the shepherd.  The only reason you would carry one that way in the first place would be because it was the easiest way to handle the weight.  If you cannot tuck it under your arms and go then odds are that lamb is not little, clean or recently shorn.

Way too close to the nose to want to be carrying a lamb.

Well the discrimination might be something you can leave behind.  The fighting and the killing?  A flock of stuffed and mounted sheep is probably the only place that would be free of that.

Sheep are sheep.

People are people.

There is some ugliness in both unless there is a strong shepherd present who can stop the ugliness and keep it in check.

Safety in numbers.  Being part of a flock and having to put up with all that guff is ultimately better than being a lone sheep.  One lamb by itself goes by a lot of names.  Most of them are recipes.

So you can try to find a way to survive the push and shove of the community or you can be the easiest prey any wolf pack ever found.

Jlin points out that the animals are exhibiting behaviour that stems from stress rather than is normative.  Just because it is a flock it doesn't mean that everything is normal right.  The environment is not natural.  Sure there is shelter and protection and food is provided.  Each are given according to what is most convenient for those raising the sheep not what is most convenient or natural for the sheep.

Consider the difference between the open pasture and the feed trough.  Elbow room is seriously diminished at the trough.  Food is available but the actual dining space is at a premium so there is pushing and shoving that simply will not be an issue when you have dinner spread out over an acre or so.

Trampling is likely a space issue as well although there is probably something more to it than that.  A greater skittishness among the animals in this particular herd perhaps.

Common mistake right.  If you've seen one flock you've seen them all.  We sometimes forget that like people, each lamb is different and depending upon its experiences while developing it can be a different animal than its parents or grandparents.

So the shape or nature of any one flock changes with the addition or subtraction of one or more sheep.  There are not an unlimited amount of sheep personalities so leaving one flock because you don't like how Woolia chews her cud or how she blocks traffic in and out of the barn means that the next flock over probably has a Woolia of its own.

The best solution is not to leave the flock.  It might become a solution if the shepherd is not an able one.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Yeah, the biological reason for most of the weaknesses is that the hay we had was not top-notch - there was a bad crop that summer.

Gee, you're really nice. xP I may be the youngest, I dunno. 

Encouraging, thanks. 

: ) Already have. They suggested I post this on Wondercafe.
 

*puffs out chest and looks proud* xD Thanks.

True. Very true.

XD  Well put – I laughed out loud to that.

Thanks for your reply! 

Starboy - you may be the youngest active poster right now, but we have had posters younger than you in the past.  Some have seemed more mature and intelligent than their elders.  They are always welcome.