That is...

What if the Word... not what is the Word... sorry (not able to do an edit)

"The word became flesh" has zero meaning or significance. You might as well have written that the Word became tuna fish, because that makes as much sense. It also reminds me of the idea that the Flying Spaghetti Monster loves me and is forever touching me with his noodly appendages. Sometimes, when I least expect it. I don't appreciate it when I'm in the shower, for example.

 

 

Very fundamental and literal....as usual.

I do agree that the Word becoming Flesh; that God's will being manifested in Jesus; is one of Christianity's most powerful ideas.

 

Of course if there is no God and no Word, then it is all moot.

 

It is only a theological answer for Christians. The rest of us will come to other answers.

 

Mendalla

 

The most important theological answer is, "My Lord, Savior, and God."

The most impotant answer is believe in the imagination (abstraction/incomplete/needing fulfilling) or as the greater part of the mythical mind ... you won't get to know anything ... thus things were unthunk due to denial that we could go there ... as abba'd sects ... it is a complicated and ambiguous term considering the simplicity of the general mortal as limited in their doings ... about delight in a Shadowy spot!

 

Enough to give the functioning mind a rest ... but this too pas esse ... as something that doesn't  be cognizant of alien scions ... Eris in from scro' ups ... in haven (when few were thinking or aware)! This cognizant thing is denied by God in Genesis 2 as well as elswhere and to partake 'n makes you an isolated daemon ... an outlander! Fringe people of the horizon event like gnomons ... A'Mons ... soles that are out of 'ere? By God Pilgrims ...

 

The words did become flesh and  God breathed this DNA into that flesh so the Flesh is able to do what God's did create things with words -----Words are very powereful and cvreate what we speak --the Bible is clear on this ---

 

 

If flesh was not created then there would be no need for words ---so be careful what you speak for what you speak will be what you get ----

 

Peace

TMI chansen. What you do in the shower is your own business. We don't need to know the kinky stuff.

It is my firm belief that His Noodliness gets a little handsy with all of us. You can't prove that He doesn't.

 

I expect what you dsay can be ssid said about all words used by people.... not sure what the point is... as your approach also applies to everything you wrote... in the end not sure what you intended to.... say.... but thats ok

No I certainly cannot prove that he has no noodle. I think he was in the movie The Entity.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Sfro7WO8YJg

But, lets assume, for this discussion, there is no God... the notion of Logos (reason, meaning, etc) still holds. Can existence itself be expressed in human terms that hold ultimate meaningful significance for pone's self? If existence can be so expressed or manifested, is it? In other words, (God aside) is there a reality in which people can exist and be by means of which they can grasp and embody ultimate existential significance (meaning nad purpose).

Being even bolder, setting aside the historical Christ of 2,000 years ago, what is being articulated is that reality, which I suggest can be experienced, experimented in and knowledge of be acquired. This is 'Christ' present today. For Christian believers, this reality came into temporal existence 2,000 years ago. But, its the reality of refer to that works on/in us today.

The Word becoming flesh, as first outlined in the post, would be an important answer for all people...

Logos as used in John's Gospel can also point to this.

(Having said that, God as the substance that creates has a place in my thinking.)

I would agree with you, if we did not have minds, spirits and hearts that have the essence of the eternal and infinite within our make up. Without that, all would be a creation of our minds and imaginations reflecting our diverse experiences, but reflecting them in the lonely solipsistic framework of the orphaned soul. My experience, and from what I gather the experience of others, is that besides our transient, temporal existence, we engage in existence that is not 'of the flesh', though it is housed in the temporal existence of the flesh. This other mode of being stands apart from subjective emotions and thoughts, and can in its turn shape the subjective experiences,

As it is laid out in John's Gospel, the Word formed the flesh, but also formed the spirit that is housed in the flesh, and that this forming is in existence itself, and also in our personal existence.

If we have only subjective emotional and cognitive constructs, we have only the kind of myths that are also housed in artificial intelligence (of future computers). But, existence itself rails against such conclusion in the very act of existing.

The most important theological answer is "to be" to exist and to exist as God would exist if God were a person. This is the profile referred in "the Word became flesh", I think.

I think it is true that the Bible says that words are very important, it does so in places and in different ways. But, all wise people have said the same, all over the world and in all times.

What the Gospels tell us, through the ministry of Christ, is that we must go beyond words into actions. The difference between 'word' and 'logos' is that words from the mouth of God (the Word [logos] of God) create things and meaning at once. The meaning is the action, and the action is the meaning. I think this is true of being Christian: the meaning of being Christian is in the actions of being; and the the actions of being Christian is the meaning or significance of being Christian.

Logos is about being or living... it is not about words in the abstract. The Word became flesh, it did not become a 'word' or a text of words... The Word becomes flesh in people who manifest or express it in their daily being or existing.

Well, that is how I see more or less....

 

What, the most important theological answer? We haven't figured out the most important theological question yet!

 

Or is it possible to have an answer first, and then fashion the question to match the answer?

 

The questioner is his or her own answerer. But is the answerer also his or her own questioner? Well, if question and answer are regarded as diametric opposites, then one necessitates and complements the other, and the two constitute a harmonious Whole.

 

Then finding the question, or finding the answer, is easy: One is the diametric opposite of the other. As soon as we have one, we can conclude to the other.

 

Clear as mud, eh? Is that what they call circular reasoning?

 

My head is spinning. I need to go to bed!

 

 

 

Is that the case... good questions tend to contain their answer, and answers have quesrions from which they are framed... perhaps what we are discussing is neither a true question or a true answer.... language can be 'myth' making I suppose

Hi Mendalla,

 

 

Agreed.

 

It is similar to asserting that the most important answer is 2 and then expecting 2 to define the subject of every sentence.

 

I would think that it necessary for the answer to be related to the question in some way and so the only way that any answer qualifies as the most important answer is if it actually answers the question being asked.

 

"The Word became flesh" is not in and of itself an answer to a question.  John does not pose it as one.  It is a declaritive statement establishing truth prior to any question being asked.

 

As a Christian I find the statement to be very important.  The most important?  Depends upon the context.  Other answers may be more immediate concerns.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

 

Hi Aldo   your quote  

Logos is about being or living... it is not about words in the abstract. The Word became flesh, it did not become a 'word' or a text of words... The Word becomes flesh in people who manifest or express it in their daily being or existing.

Well, that is how I see more or less....

 

You are entitled to your view ---

 

Logos and ----Rhema word of God

 

Logos

 

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

 

 

Strong's Number:   3056    Original Word Word Origin lovgoß from (3004) Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Logos 4:69,505 Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech log'-os      Noun Masculine  Definition of speech a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea what someone has said a word the sayings of God decree, mandate or order of the moral precepts given by God Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim discourse the act of speaking, speech the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking a kind or style of speaking a continuous speaking discourse - instruction doctrine, teaching anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed its use as respect to the MIND alone reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating account, i.e. regard, consideration account, i.e. reckoning, score account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation reason would reason, cause, ground In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds. A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates achanging universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose inJohn 1.    King James Word Usage - Total: 330 word 218, saying 50, account 8, speech 8, Word (Christ) 7, thing 5, not translated 2, miscellaneous 32

 

Rhema

 

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

 

 

Strong's Number:   4487    Original Word Word Origin rJh'ma from (4483) Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Rhema 4:69,505 Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech hray'-mah      Noun Neuter  Definition that which is or has been uttered by the living voice, thing spoken, word any sound produced by the voice and having definite meaning speech, discourse what one has said a series of words joined together into a sentence (a declaration of one's mind made in words) an utterance a saying of any sort as a message, a narrative 1c concerning some occurrence subject matter of speech, thing spoken of so far forth as it is a matter of narration so far as it is a matter of command a matter of dispute, case at law

 

The Parable of the sower ----Words are seeds ----seeds produce -----

 

 

You reap Aldo what you plant -----your words are seeds ---

 

Peace

 

What you have quoted, makes my point....

The Word of God is Law ... rigid things that one needs to go and think about ... outside the system thus the function of the rogue or f(rogue) in a Gael rendering of a good ribbing or hilarious Rueben!

 

While in the Isle of Logos, or reasonable logic, one might come up with something that would a deviating Jack to those stuck on pious things! Such things are expressed between the lines of  de roués of things poorly understood by mortals as subtle or backdrops in the way it appears from behind the scene or unseen things.

 

ALDO stated: "I would agree with you, if we did not have minds, spirits and hearts that have the essence of the eternal and infinite within our make up."

 

What if what we think that "is within" is actualy out there (beyond, myth) connected in the crossing field of things mysterious as ... Dark Energy (minimal thoughts as the lesser of 2 evils compared to desired emotional content)? So small as to be low against the threshold (dagon) of mortal sensitivity ... since they didn't wish to know anyway and thus all the imaginary fallout from haven about in strange Zeas (shamayim)? This leads to more whetting of the ithchii and phi-chi smelly thing called sol' ... and the pool or po'R thing deepens as impressed ... as infundibliblum, or something like that which may or may notbe as it appears to you. This is due to the Pauling Conjecture of not understanding things while in the system ... how it is with emotional beings ... one must get out'a'ere ...

 

Why the rage about disassembling all previous things or spiritual dis emmanation ... which could be the gathering of light clues as dispersed ... by solar winds non-the-less!

 

 

The knowing Shadow sneaks by creeping ... thus remaining a humble chap ... the chapping coming from midst de rash ... or midrash in rendering it down ... mortals wish things simple stew'þ ID! Thus that BUSS Prin when you believe you've got the impulse ... but it came from outside you (as a stray neuron) or shattered qunatum bit .... these can go far immediately before recollecting themselves out there!

 

This is what I've been told ... I can't know ... not allowed by literal rules ... mortals are to be numbe down ... only 1/2 A'Moor! It is a Celtic thing about mystical events!

If the word becomes "flesh" wouldn't it also mean that we are living the message contained within and sowing the seeds of loving one another and glorifying God? The message changes from just being words and becomes an action?

 

 

Then we are on the same page ----great stuff ---

 

Peace

Riffing off John's response a bit, I call to mind Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (probably because I finally saw the theatrical movie version last week).

 

A critical part of HHGG is that a civilization called the Magratheans builds a massive computer called Deep Thought to tell them the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything.

 

The answer (and Deep Thought emphasizes that they are not going to like it) turns out to be "42".

 

The Magratheans are, needless to say, outraged until Deep Thought politely points out that the reason that answer makes no sense is because they don't actually know what the question is. He/She (depending on which version of HHGG you are reading/watching) then designs a new, even more powerful computer, to find the question.

 

Aldo has given us an answer, the Word made Flesh, but what question is it the answer to? Is it a question that is relevant to all of us, or only those who see the world in a certain way?

 

Mendalla

 

The best answers continue the questions. Thanks Mendella!

To me, "the Word became flesh" means that God poured out its substance, or part of its substance, into creation.

 

If, as I believe, God is transcendental energy, then this energy became biological life and eventually the self-aware species calling itself Homo sapiens sapiens, who became aware that the Word did indeed become flesh: creator became created!

 

 

 

deleted - my post didn't add anything to the discussion.

 

What happens when we eat a bible made of cheese?

 

I think Quakers (in the breadth and depth of their experience and reflection, over the last 400 years, or so) agree with what you say. What you point to is at the heart of the methodism of both Wesley and Fletcher. .... all of which is to say: yes --- now that becoming is miraculous

 

Depends on what kind of cheese. A well-aged cheddar, a brie, a mild Mozzarella?

 

And too much cheese can be bad for your health (too much fat, etc.). Is this also true of Bibles?

 

Mendalla

 

Hi Mendalla,

 

 

Well, I suspect that they are pretty high in fibre so I wouldn't suggest eating the big old thick ones.  

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

I'm supposed to get more fibre. Helps regulate blood glucose. Doctor never suggested eating Bibles but... 

 

Mendalla

 

I'm just back from my afternoon walk, and, while walking, I contemplated the most important theological question/answer, when it suddenly occurred to me that God itself is the question, and we are the answer.

 

God, or self-creative energy, cast itself out into godzillions of god particles, into a chaos of an unimaginably huge, astronomical scale. The stardust settled, the divine chaos attained a semblance of order, and from that relative order emerged a self-aware biological species self-named Homo sapiens, a species whose individuals were autonomous creators, every one of them a mini creator, a unique creator in the image of the ultimate creator.

 

So what is the divine question, then, and what is the divine answer?

 

The divine questioner is the ultimate creator, its divine action is creativeness, and its divine question to us mini creators is: What do you create?

 

We answer with what we create: our lifestyles, our cultures and cultural institutions, our everyday activities, our objects of high or low art, etc.

 

The important thing is to create individually unique works of personal art, and collectively unique works of group art, but not in the spirit of of egocentricity, tribalism, ethnocentricity or antropocentricity. We are to here create and to answer God in its spirit, the spirit of unity and oneness.

 

Here are two post on The Word..--

 

 

Deu 8:3	And he humbled you and let you hunger and fed you with manna, which you did not know, nor did your fathers know; that he might make you know that man does not live by bread alone, but that man lives by everything that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD.
Mat 4:4	But he answered, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"

We really have little understanding of The power of GODS Word.

yes... I would generally agree. God can be the question and we the answer --- the answer is in the question, the question drives the answer from within... but in the end we answer in what we do and what we are in the brief time we have...

Can any answer do? Or does the ultimate answer get its 'specfics' from and of the question?

We create constructively, but we create destructively ... and as history tells, some folks have been very good with the latter. I think it matters what we create and how, especially in regards to one another?

What then shall do and how....

regards

in this human life, God manifests himself and his Word through us, who are his arms and legs, and presence in this life... As demonstrated by Christ... God works through people... this is a profound resposibility....I think

so its not so much about cheese...

On the contrary, it's all about cheese. Praise cheeses.

 

perhaps the Oka cheese made by the monks....

Well, blessed are the cheesemakers...

Hi Aldo:

 

No, any answer will not do! The egocentric, ethnocentric or antropocentric answers tend to be destructively creative, while the cosmocentric answers are constructively creative.

 

If the ultimate creative spirit is the spirit of the Whole and All, then our creations that are undertaken in the wholistic spirit will be constructive rather than destructive. Then we create in the spirit of God.

 

 

Well, chansen, the making of cheese was invented or refined in monasteries. And so was the making of wine and beer, and medicinal liqouers.

 

And number 3 in the list of most causes of death:

• Cancer
• Heart dis Ease (eerie stress?)
• Medical treatment

Thus the medicinal liquor has got us licked ... so you might as well be a bit chi-Zea ... when coming to cosmological functions as these are open to anthropocentric question ... and what's anymore agorophobic than mortals when considering gross unknowns? Some won't even get beyond a single book contrived of many many lies about the knowledge of what's truth! Even considering when that book says there's still more to come ... as the stories of light are just out of this world (Gospel of John 21:25) as something that would make you really inquisitive about things out-there ...

 

Such thoughts that come from indeterminate questions leave me fission (Pisces) or busting with humour at how little we really know and yet say we do!

 

Since relatively compared to the immortal we know nothing to begin with ... the first impulse is to consider mortal purely emotional ... something to get over ... like Jonah with his baggage ...

Why a lot of common folk shed tears in their drink ... they know the lass is in that pool somewhere ... and if you forget thoughts ... chi'll get a loch on yah ... as a po-eLLe 've buried conceptions ... and the myth of 6, sects, and seth goes on ... as things that bug yah like what's a "khe"? Close to IX when separated it is nein or nothing but the urge to self À Moöse meant if you know your dialexic marks and don't get dyslexic about it as a mire word ...

 

Then to many authorities any word is dirty if they don't think of it before Eyore run at it! The donkey driven race of mules? Those who know nothing but work contrary to Psalm 46:10: "Be still and know that I am god" something to look up to as really infinite and out of your mortal hands ... staring at it can cause dreams ... as only nothing can do! When you're devoid of physical things ...

 

Very nicely put, Arm. If you lived anywhere near London, I'd be lining you up to preach a service at my fellowship with this as the text. Must meditate on it some more, but I think that it is a brilliant response to both Aldo's thread and mine.

 

Mendalla

 

Hi Mendalla:

 

If I ever make it to London ONT, I'll take you up on it.

 

The lay services I conducted at my previous congregation were all in that vein: my personal contemplations. Although they were unconventional, and our rural congregation was largely conservative, my services and sermons were well received, despite me preaching in overalls, or maybe because? But perhaps I flatter myself and they gave me A for effort? Our small congregation was desperate for lay preachers.

 

 

 

It is good when people are tuned to the  presumed wee people that are biggern  life ... thus god is so much into the details ... isn't that a devious thing to say to the rich and powerful authoritarian type?

 

Alas their common state of mind is fun to play in as meddling in that dark pool of words at their disposal that they are un-recognizant about .. makes them uncomfortable as if they caught an ithchii ... mid-rash effect?

-Hi Aldo it is fine if you want to believe GOD only works through people.I myself find GOD to be a little more diverse. You may have forgot other ways that GOD worked. Noah and the dove---Samson with the jaw bone of an ass--- Daniel in the Lions den. --Jonah an The great fish---Elijah fed by ravens. The donky who spoke to it's master --the snake  of Moses. There are many ways GOD can work,  Aldo. These are a few.Even the animals of the earth or the fish in the sea know an lison to GOD. In some cases possible even better than Mankind.  God Bless.---airclean33

 

Aldo   your quote      in this human life, God manifests himself and his Word through us, who are his arms and legs, and presence in this life... As demonstrated by Christ... God works through people...

 

God works in us not through us ------You have to have the Holy Spirit for God to be present in your life ----your human Spirit  does not belong to God --you are in fact away from God ------

 

 

Peace

you might find benefit in further study of John's Gospel....