reasonable. Any man whose had to deal with a dozen wives deserves a break.

Bahahahahah!!

Love it. Monty Python would have had a heyday with this too.

I'm still alive and I'm not a Mormon, but I thought it would be fun to convert myself to homosexuality anyway.  To be honest, I don't feel much different as a lesbian.  Either it doesn't work or I was already a lesbian and didn't know it.

Too funny!

Me ex became Mormon! Now I can make him gay!

I wasn't really finding this funny until Tabitha's comment.  Thanks Tabitha!

Sure, go ahead and laugh. It's all fun and games until someone's great great grandfather becomes a heavenly drag queen and changes his name to Velveeta Fondue.

Hi Chansen,

Last week Stephen Colbert had all dead Mormons posthumously circumcised and converted to Judaism.

I'm guessing that included all the dead Jews that Mormonism had posthumously baptized into the Mormon Church.

I wonder if that amounts to a re-circumcision?  

Now if the Mormons decide to posthumously rebaptize all those posthumously circumcised in some kind of posthumous tennis match I would think the Mormons would eventually win because I doubt you can posthumously re-circumcise forever.

Admittedly my knowledge of posthumous conversion is limited to the the belief that it is both crass and reprehensible.

Grace and peace to you.

John

For those who don't know the backstory, Anne Frank was recently baptized posthumously as a Mormon.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Anne+Frank+baptized+posthumously+Mormons+report/6209157/story.html

I don't think re-circumcision would be necessary.  Pre-circumsized converts to Judaism don't have to be re-circumsized in order to become Jewish (there is a symbolic act in place of a full circumcision in which I believe a drop of blood is drawn), and I doubt that the Mormons are re-attaching foreskins to the converted Jewish men. 

I find the pratice disconserting to think about--because it makes me think of them actually baptising corpses or something...but, i don't think that's what they do... they are not baptising dead people (are they?), they are "baptising" the names of dead people, using themselves by proxy, is my understanding.. I tend to think if the deceased person was not interested in being a Mormon in their lifetime..and if the people opposed to it don't believe in that practise anyway-- then what difference does it make, really, other than being distasteful? I can understand the baptism of Holocaust victims severely offending people on principle, that's really offensive by negating the faith, culture and horrible struggle and persecution they went through...but Mormons undergoing proxy baptisms for their own relatives is neither here nor there to me because I don't believe in that anyway.

Can you imagine someone doing a proxy baptism for their dear departed uncle Bob....and poor Bob being officially transfered from one section of heaven, where he was resting in peace, to another section with all the family there to greet him--and Bob saying "Oh great, now I have to be with them in heaven? I thought I got away with it. I guess I'll get no rest aterall."  Bad joke. ;)

BWAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!

just spit coffee all over my keyboard....

On a serious note, I know someone who was saving $25,000 to pay for her mother ot be converted and baptised after death.  she thought it was a valid thing to do and as a practicing mormon was happy to save her money and give it to the church for the baptism after death.

very sad

I am very bothered by all this ...

A friend told me without reservation that there is no unconscious mind ...

Now I have this looming case over my head that I no longer know what faith I believe in ...

Sort of a life of chaos to lead on this side of really what little is known of ... knot knowing with the tree maker!

Elite humours eh!

WB,

What did what your friend say make you doubt the faith you were believing in?

I think there are unconscious portions of the brain. I have no idea what happens to thoughts spiritually when bodies and brains die physically. I mean, I don't know how that will be experienced, what that will look like feel like, I have some thoughts about it . I believe there's something out there after death here, afterlife, in dimensions that we can't even fathom with our limited brains here now. I believe that.

I am not convinced, though, I really doubt it makes a whole heap of difference to the one deceased if someone from a different faith, or a faith they never accpeted when they were alive-- tries to post humously baptise them by proxy.  Can't imagine the deceased would be concerned about it any longer. They're already on to the next life.

Kimmio,

If some one can change your faith without our knowing ... is this evidence of an unknowing portion of mind? Consider this completely tongue in cheek ... or perhaps right off-the-wahl .. that monster containment of mortal (limited) thought process ... a phenomenon ... not thing. It could be numinous tho' although that might be numb-in-us if we didn't understand all the metaphorical words availabel to the greatest story teller of all time ... par A-Bel-ist?

It is a vast Black Hole out-there to draw th' inking from ... druid (drew-ID) Shadows? Mire devil to the Roman brute who hates a thinking commoner interfering with the desires of Caesar (aberrition of KaiSar, or spirit of the head in old tongues of ire'n). Suppose the head (s'r) is central issue to desires and just is topping for the heart! Omi gaw'd would that cause the heuristically num bin us to ponder the depths of Ðøems (an old word for dark depths in a word; that no superficial person could accept in a story). 

Can a mortal draw anything from a deep dark pithy thing like the mind that some say smells pheshy (old Hebrew word for de brae'in)? Tis a physical apparition given big ode as a symbol of sole .... if we could only put it all together ... integrally an antisocial enigma! Especially in places where theres is no concern whatsoever for little people ... like King James liked to bum off Wii buoys ... and you wonder where the church learned pediphillia? That's not proper filias in the Latin sense of loving to see your donkey Goan .... giving to old axiom about giving it a BUSS ... Good-bye? An existentential term as's ... like being in another ten's ... that's ankh ... stretching into what we don't know is huge travail (Job of boils and plagues of pure bucolic po'Et'Tree ... outstanding in a field as prickley spruce-dupe ... to cast a Shadow ... on following your heart without intellect ...

Does the head hate to be separated from de butte of the barrel of monkies ... humans ... if you step outside the box and watch their antisocial behaviour! Hot Ayres ... that pedre in ole Gael tongue ... spoken of inancient myths about legacy ... something about austere living?

Have a giggle ...

I think the powers above do what they put us thro' in the Circe of life ... needing analysis ... sort of annular ... like cyclic powers ... in de Dan's'v frothy dimension ... grin an biere IT ... as hated th'T by the powerfull emotive ... I take Joey in the subliminal! ... WB

He comes back as jumped up according to my late grandfather ... Jack, or Jaqob ...

Even if I could do such a thing, why would I want to...?

MC,

Not your choice according to this someone converted you after you're dead ... prode stination?

Yeah WB, but why change someone in this way after they're dead? What advantage would it be for anyone?

Probably a private advantage ... the devil is indi tails ... th'salt fer Noe ...  

For myself, I know the pain affiliated with folks baptizing their dead Jew relatives.  I hear the pain of those who upset about baptizing Holocaust Jews who died kiddush hashem. I know the pain of those who think they should "save" people and the pain affiliated with people who struggle with their own or another's homosexuality.

Not valuing the beliefs the dead had in life, mocking their beliefs, ignoring the pain for a family......  all hideous to me.

Amen to that SG!

I think it's deeply disrespectful to the families who didn't consent, to post humously baptise halocaust victims, SG, and if I were a family member of a holocaust victim I would feel offended.

I guess I just don't personally believe the ritual will do anything to change the integrity of the person's faith while they were alive, no matter what the mormons think....but they do it out of what they feel is sincere love and concern for their dear departed. So, if they did it to me, if it would help--either help me in my afterlife, (which I have serious doubts it will), or help the people performing the ritual feel better-- great, but God will be the judge anyway, so not to worry. Does that make sense? It's kind of like organ donation to me...some people feel it to be offensive too. I think, well, if it will help someone, fine...because by that time, it's no longer my concern.

Also, a proxy post humous baptism...that is, a live stand-in being baptised on the deceased's behalf...really when I think about it is not much different from a Hindhu person praying for a deceased Christian, or a First Nations person performing a ritual dance for a departed person of another faith, is it? It's just the concept that people find offensive because it's called a "baptism"...but it's not really a baptism, imo, it's a way for the family and friends to deal with their grief and their fears and ask for God to protect the soul of their loved one. When it is performed for someone they never knew just for their records, to add to their "stats"...that's going too far.

I don't know, I might change my mind about this upon further thought. I mean, I find the whole concept creepy...but I also find organ donation creepy, even though it saves lives. I just don't think I will find it creepy once I'm no longer here to find it creepy. I'll be on to the next phase.

The Mormom-Church of Jesus Christ of Lattr day Saints-offered to microfiche the United Church of Canada's historical records for free. The church turned them down as they didn't want free and easy access for  "re-baptizing" many decreased members.

I'm sure my ex had baptized by proxy many of my children's realatives., contrary to their belifs while living. While it is insulting to their memory I am sure it didn't change their heavenly status.

WB: Could be evidence of an unknowing portion of the mind...but then, if it's unknowing, it probably also doesn't worry about it!

Tongue n' cheek idea in response to yours...I guess it depends, though, what does the mormon concept of heaven look like? If it's a peaceful place, with kind souls, then I guess there's no problem being sent there...but if it's full of nosey parkers who want control over me even after I'm dead...hmm,  no thanks! ;)   (I don't believe that though...just a hypothetical...I believe it's in God's hands and all shall be well....I don't know what it will "look like" but all shall be well).

Hi MorningCalm,

Some people still believe that "truth" walks hand in hand with "prosperity."

Some believe that if their church is bigger than any other church that is all the proof that is required that God is blessing them.  We hear that kind of thinking all over this forum at WonderCafe.ca when somebody says that conservative churches are growing at a faster rate than liberal churches.

So, if the Mormon Church is adding to their historic totals by baptizing whole congregations of dead Baptists, Presbyterians, Catholics, Hindi, Jews and Muslims they have everyone else beat in the numbers department and can ignore the inconvenient fact that among the living their numbers are pretty modest.

If memory serves The United Church of Canada long ago prohibitted Mormons from gaining access to our Burial records for their "geneological research" when it became evident that they were also baptizing everyone in their geneological databases.  This is not a new issue.

According to Mormonism non-mormons cannot enter heaven so they believe they are doing us all a favour. 

Grace and peace to you.

John

I want to get to New York to see the Musical   The Book of Mormon.  The songs i have heard are great and very tongue in cheek.  google  "I believe"   It is terribly funny

Just imagine a God of pure love ... would that persona be unknowing? Did you know when you fell or only after as discipleship of prodigal retention? Gd does act in odd ways ... for he didn't know any other ... quite green you know when coming to Gnoen stuff!

Rev. John,

Some people still believe that "truth" walks hand in hand with "prosperity."

Just think of the humble repercussions of subliminal learning ... after the po' soul wer put down for so long ... as daemons ... guilty as charged by the index finger here ...

Recall those in high places are a bit foggy when it comes to clear tho'T ...

O'Yah we weren't supposed to do that were we ... thinking  people are evil. Can some b'damed phoul tell me why we were given an empty brae'in? Were we supposed to pude soemthing there as learned from nothing ...?

Last point,

Did you ever read the Book of Mormon ... the introduction by Joseph Smith is very elite ... but you have to read into it to get his message about the unknowing sole ...

God Bless and hope you learn something ... contrary to Roman Rules on digitalization ... mortals aren't supposed to feel ... no fingers allowed and the index was closed! Many spots an dashes for cover ... Marconi & Moors Qode ... my alchemy giggles ... in the pool 'n! Like Huckle berry on his r'ft ...

Ain ID a hoo'd ... maybe just a covering fabric for an embarassed God ... provided bi hoo else ... an alternate in tho'T?

How was it discovered that the Mormons were engaging in this act?

Yes, John, I suppose. I still don't know, though, why I would want to convert a Mormon into a homosexual Mormon.

How many real people would like to go to Mormon heaven ... I have enough difficulty dealing with one Ephraim ... that western dark Ness ...

lol :)

So, do they go through the obituaries too? What a strange concept it is.  I never knew anything about this before Mitt Romney rose to fame recently.

Converting souls is like setting tome stones ... mire business of dirty tricks?

Imagine Scott Peck going there to observe The Road Less Travelled ... or even Children of the Lie! He probably couldn't believe it either ... thus the books ... you'd half to write a story ... but not one many could understand or you'd be accused of knowing something ... a sin ... right---IW?

Wee bee not supposed to be goan there ... will be just a disposed emotion ... now athe ought ... zero sum? A soul devoid? Isn't that rapturous ... just extracts from everything you've ever learned here about dealing with things you do not like ... compete with eM or co-operate and get out! Monolythic pathe ... write you're oen'''n ... with yod gaps ... as apos-trophies ... so they can't understand a thing without great curiosity about the dark smears you've made ...

For some people, "saving" others is a big thing.

One of the vital sacraments to some of those people in order to get to heaven is baptism. What of our teaching, in recent past, or still... that the unbaptized cannot get into heaven? How long ago was that? Is it still there? The LDS is still there.

What of people who believe that those who have not heard the gospel or accepted Jesus are in danger of burning in hell or not reaching heaven?

LDS go around baptising dead relatives and others, in order to "save them". It is based in their interpretation of scripture, John 3:5 and 1Corinthians 15;29.

One does not have to agree with LDS interpretation. One may have a different interpretation.

The LDS also believe that this is a second chance, the "baptized" have a choice to accept it or not.

It is easy to point fingers and say "how absurd". But what of our own scary, disgusting.... "stuff" around "saving" people?

What about not allowing some to be saved? What of burning them alive so there was no body to be resurrected in the afterlife? What of the idea that if they burned in this life they would not burn in hell?

I do not agree with LDS baptism of the dead, but I can seek to understand how they arrived there (often by looking not AT them, but looking at or to ourselves)

I understand why they do it.  I would likely feel offended and creeped out that my family's privacy  was violated if they did that to one of my relatives, because I would feel like it's none of their business to look up my relative's name and personal info and determine what their faith was and  "convert" them, esp. if the relative was someone who never had any interest in being a Mormon in this life...but I understand the motivation is actually one of love and concern for the deceased's salvation..

That said, after I die, I am not so sure I will be too concerned about it.

Consider the comments of the early Roman Theology: "They don't have to know!"

Then if the people do not know can you condemn them for their innocence?

Who can you condemn for the absence of knowledge of Love ... bi gaw'd that's an alien concept ... Gnoe!

Absence of knowledge of passion, and the dangers thereof ... weird eh in this dimension of hate ...

Some churches still teach that, but I believe they're well in the minority.

You may not believe that people need saving, but why do you find it disgusting and scary?

MorningCalm,

Though I may disagree, it is not the "saving" concept that I find scary and disgusting. It is the "who" and the "how".

"Saving" homosexuals is one example, especially when it inflicts verbal, emotional, physical, spiritual abuse... that is both scary and disgusting.

Teaching people that unbaptized children who die are in hell, is disgusting to me.

"Saving" people of other faiths by using food or medicine as a lure or holding it for ransom is another. Both scary and disgusting.

What is scary and disgusting to one person can be the theolology of another... "scary and disgusting" is IMO

There are times when things like burning people alive happened to have them "saved" and to avoid hell... that is disgusting likely to most of us...

WB, maybe when i get to the other side, I will care about it...care enough to send down some good vibes and love to the people I left behind. I just can't fathom it. I also hope I would still be forgiving too....maybe not consciously, but forgiving energy?

Kimmio,

It's just an other worldly incidence ... like thos evoices in the dark ... thoughts of the Shadow? They do say the Shadow knows ... is that ominous casting for the word plae? Such things bounce around in my mind ... and I'm told by people that don't know sole ... that it doesn't exist ... hear and know ... I feel ID ... the primal power according to Webster ... even when thought is missing there's pure emotion ... a duality of the parse of absolute and abstract in the hollow of the scullin place Gael Goth'a ... a kind of intangeable storm ... without d' Light as IC IT!

Do you know of the myth of Paris and œnon? The latter is a kind of whine in the night ... a latent awareness of a gutte cut ... the string being plucked! The song of life Ghos Ton ... dependant on a myriad of wiggle Urs ...

Edict of Vorms should be  released with ultimate Karrie ... thats wholly ground or milled properly ...

Can a word of love be found anywhere? Only if you know a big bunch of tongues in a hateful surround ... the environment for a wash ... emmersion on the other side of reality? Mind bloe'n incident in space as a mire symbol of the other kind ... Qor'bel ... once know as fallen phoqah in Hebrew tongues ... them characters wandering across the page as myth ... that can arise into a new aware Ness ... ominous-heh? Walk softly ... bare foot is acceptable ... that's sole mon ... silent as chi ghost!

Hi Kimmio:

I think from the other side there is nothing to forgive.

If Energy is a unitive whole, a singularity in a state of synthesis (which even science agrees with) then experiencing universal unity, as the highly evolved emotional organisms that we are, results in an upwelling and outpouring of unitive love. In other words, eternal Energy has attained unitive love in and through us humans. Or, in yet other words, God evolved ITself into a loving being in and through us, and there now is unitive love in the universe because of that. Before IT evolved us, Energy did not yet know unitive love. Perhaps this is why we are the "crown of creation," God's highest achievement—so far.

I meant, if it's possible, send some good loving vibes to earth so that people forgive each other ;)

Its a created duality, so long standing emotions of the cosmos ... could begin to think? A speck of aboriginal intellect Dorothy .. mire spot on the huge Wahl ... like as spark in the distance. There's satrs then the recent sense of Black Holes A's Tar's-eMs black ... they gather light ... imaginary hyperboloids? Dark humours!

They cast ominous Qol over the burning passions ... the story goes on and on amuses the hired powers that support the ole thing ... the overhead mind that is ethereal and foggy? The haze we love if we don't wish to know ... and we don't know the halve of ID ...

No mixed fibres? Look what happened to the HoHonzollerns ... down in de vaults of des crypt ... well-woven so mankind won't have to know ... das the mine 've des Taurus ... Vulcan ich Bo'eL? The other part of de sphere as hyperberbolic ... in verse ...

It may be better to send those vibes in the here-and-now.

Of course! But if I can continue after I'm no longer here, why not?

Yes, by all means.