brads ego
Reasons People Leave Christianity
Posted on: 03/27/2009 21:47
Reasons people leave the faith, according to [some] Christians:
1. You’re looking for an excuse not to believe.
2. You’re being manipulated by Satan.
3. You’re indulging your desire to live hedonistically.
4. You want instant gratification.
5. You’re not thinking about the future/afterlife.
6. You never had a true personal relationship with Jesus.
7. You never experienced/received the Holy Spirit.
8. You were “religious” but not born again. (OR, in better church jargon) You had a “said faith, not a real faith.”
9. Your decision is based on other Christians’ behavior, not on Jesus’ teachings.
10. You were hurt by your pastor/other Christians.
11. You were in the “wrong” denomination or sect.
12. People disappointed you and so you “threw out the baby with the bathwater”.
13. You weren’t following the real (or historical) Jesus.
14. You’re angry and resentful and taking it out on God.
15. You’re mad at God for some misfortune in your life.
16. You were never saved/Christian to start with. (Good ole Calvinism)
17. You’re harboring sin in your heart.
18. You’re too prideful/arrogant to humble yourself before the Lord.
19. You have a rebellious spirit.
20. You didn’t pray/read the Bible enough.
21. You forsook assembling together.
22. You can’t accept authority.
23. You never dealt with sin in your life. (i.e. You were a carnal Christian.)
24. You are having a mid-life, or some other life wide, crisis.
25. You’re, “going through a phase.”
26. You are self-centered/serving yourself.
27. You are shutting your eyes to the obvious truth of God.
28. You love/serve science/job/hobbies more than God.
29. You were unequally yoked (e.g. wife is Catholic, you were Protestant).
30. You looked to your own will/emotions instead of God’s will.
31. You’re mind was poisoned by man’s philosophy.
32. You became “wise in your own eyes.”
33. You were trying too hard to see God, and your own efforts kept you from success. (OR, said a little differently) You never “let go and let God.” (OR, said a little differently) You depended too much on your own strength/intellect.
34. You quit seeking, or stopped “growing in the faith”, or allowed your faith to become stagnant.
35. You didn’t “take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.”
36. You were too legalistic.
37. You want to be your own god.
38. You didn’t really understand the scriptures (Bible).
Reasons people leave the faith, according to ex-Christians:
1. God never shows up. Not in visions, miracles, visitations, angelic appearances, or challenge matches (think of Elijah vs. the Baal priests).
2. Prayers are NOT answered.
3. Christians are NOT different from non-Christians.
4. Church disunity.
5. The Bible is contradictory with itself, reality, and morality.
6. God is NOT loving, merciful, good, just, etc.
7. Everyone makes up their faith and their ideas of God as they go along.
8. The Universe is capable of functioning without divine influence
9. There is no proof of ANYTHING supernatural
10. Christians use dishonest tactics to support their beliefs.
11. Pascal’s Wager is a horrific false dichotomy.
12. The idea that God would hurt someone to test their faith is completely disgusting.
13. “God works in mysterious ways” or “We’ll get all the answers in heaven” are not satisfactory answers to important questions. They’re code for: “Shut up and stop asking.” –OR, as stated by another de-con¬– I took a Systematic Theology class and discovered all my deepest questions were answered with, “It’s a mystery.”
14. Christianity promised life fuller and more abundantly. Instead, it separated me from life. It made me miserable. –OR, as stated by another de-con– Having “Jesus in my heart” didn’t give me joy or peace.
15. If there is an infinite almighty all loving Creator who has one single, simple message to impart to us, why is he so spectacularly ineffective at doing so?
16. There are no outlying data about the Christian Bible not explained by the 5-word sentence: “It is a human text.”
17. Evil.
18. I visited the Natural History Museum in NYC.
19. I analyzed my own religion in the same way I had others.
20. I realized Christianity’s stories are just as ridiculous and fantastical as every other religion’s.
21. Eternal punishment for wrongs committed in a mortal lifetime, or for failing to figure out which religion to follow, is in no way just or moral.
22. I stopped going to church and didn’t become a prostitute or drug addict as I was told I would if I “backslid”.
23. I read other things besides the Bible, including a lot of science books, and the other books made more sense.
24. No matter how much money I give to churches, preachers, or prosperity-gospel ministers, I’m never blessed with abundant health, wealth, or prosperity other than what I work my ass off for.
25. Original sin, The notion that God chose Adam to be the federal head of all humanity, knowing that he would fall, and that all of mankind would be born with a predisposition towards sin; that these creatures, would act in accordance with their fallen nature, and as a result would be tortured and tormented forever and ever, and that the church would call this just.
26. To be a good Christian you must continually defer your own judgment to that of a book as interpreted by your church.
27. I had sex for the first time and then I knew I’d been lied to.
28. I realized my parents lied to me about everything else too.
29. The core of Christianity is a rejection of the Jewish tradition, not the fulfillment that it declares to be, and the history of this Christian religion has only proved to be an overtly anti-semitic one.
From my friends at De-Conversion
Comments
Arminius
Posted on: 03/27/2009 22:29
What to you want to know from us, Brad? Whether we agree with any of the above?
I don't! My spirituality is entirely experiential. I don't believe in any dogmas, doctrines or belief systems. The interpretations of my spiritual experiences are, at all times, metaphorical and/or speculative. I belong to the United Church of Canada, which, so far, has not expelled or even reproached me for my openly unorthodox stance.
brads ego
Posted on: 03/27/2009 22:58
Know? Nothing other than your reactions. Whether you agree with others. I come from a radically different Chrisitanity than that of the UCC and I am simply trying to understand/gauge UCC/progressive Christianity, etc. etc.
Gathering from what I understand, so called "mainstream Christianity" would tend to understand the bottom list more than the atheist caricature provided by so-called "Evangelicals" or Fundamentalists in the top list.
Plus, maybe this was an implicit reaction to stoneeyeball's "Are Atheists Fools" post.
Arminius
Posted on: 03/27/2009 23:37
Know? Nothing other than your reactions. Whether you agree with others. I come from a radically different Chrisitanity than that of the UCC and I am simply trying to understand/gauge UCC/progressive Christianity, etc. etc.
Gathering from what I understand, so called "mainstream Christianity" would tend to understand the bottom list more than the atheist caricature provided by so-called "Evangelicals" or Fundamentalists in the top list.
Plus, maybe this was an implicit reaction to stoneeyeball's "Are Atheists Fools" post.
Yes, Brad, the two go together, don't they. Synchronicity?
As you have realized by now, I am saddened by the fact that the unquestioning belief in a particular doctrine is perceived to be the only form of religion. The inevitable backlash against doctrinal religion is, of course, atheism. Alas, both religion and atheism overlook the experiential spirituality which is at the root of all religion and philosophy, and which has the potential of unifying or complementing religion and science.
sighsnootles
Posted on: 03/28/2009 06:16
for me, all this stuff says that whomever put it together finds being a christian to be a real hardship, a sacrifice. they look at others who do not believe and live as they do to be having a better time then they are, a better life, and so in their jealousy they put together stuff like this to make themselves feel better... kind of a 'well, i'm taking it in the chin now, but just you wait until the afterlife pal, and THEN we'll see who has the last laugh!!'
my experience has been the opposite... i feel that by being a christian, i'm just happy, and i don't need to make excuses or find fault with other ways of life.
LBmuskoka
Posted on: 03/28/2009 07:07
I would say your list could be added to, indeed my personal opinion is that the list would be whatever today's global population has reached.
Each of us reaches our understanding uniquely, influenced by the circumstances and happenstances that life tosses on our paths. I am at the crossroads of life, where it doesn't matter what another believes just as long as they do not try and impose their choices on me.
LB
Now that I'm older I thought it was great that I had more patience. Turns out that I just don't give a ... Maxine (Aging Gracelessly)
boltupright
Posted on: 03/28/2009 09:16
for me, all this stuff says that whomever put it together finds being a christian to be a real hardship, a sacrifice. they look at others who do not believe and live as they do to be having a better time then they are, a better life, and so in their jealousy they put together stuff like this to make themselves feel better... kind of a 'well, i'm taking it in the chin now, but just you wait until the afterlife pal, and THEN we'll see who has the last laugh!!'
my experience has been the opposite... i feel that by being a christian, i'm just happy, and i don't need to make excuses or find fault with other ways of life.
That is awesome!!! the motive of a christian should be to share of the blessings, not find fault in others.
This isn't how Jesus ministered.
He rebuked yes, but who did He rebuke, & He never rebuked by name other than satan, or never singled out a single person for such.
He indeed saw the fault as He sees into the heart, but His message to us was of the Kingdom, not of judgement. Judgement comes to the wicked, & the wicked indeed know who they are in time.
Bolt
Mendalla
Posted on: 03/28/2009 10:21
Well, I'm not a Christian and I don't really see myself in those lists (maybe in a few items in the second list). I think that for many of us who leave, it is far more complex than simplistic lists like that suggest. I'm doing a sermon on Exploration at my UU church tomorrow and I think that theme does really say a lot about why I am no longer a Christian. As learned more about science, philosophy, and other faiths, I found I loved the exploration and that my spiritual awareness was enhanced by the learning process. The host of new influences got me thinking about faith, religion, morality, etc. in new ways. Even liberal UCC churches at that time (we're talking 20-25 years ago) were simply not open-minded enough for my curiousity and need to explore. Eventually, I discovered Unitarian Universalism. I've probably encapsulated a chunk of the second list in here, but it isn't like I could just cite items 2, 10, and 15 or something. I need to tell a story, not put out a list of simplistic reasons.
Mendalla
Panentheism
Posted on: 03/28/2009 10:12
While the lists suggest many reasons there is a theme that runs through them - it really has to do with what is called ones model of God - it gets worked out in doctrine - What fails is the model of God does not do an adequate job of describing our experience and our sense of awe - I have found many conservatives and also mainline people to experience a disconnect with their supernatural classic theism and reality and have no other model to explain their experience and leave - on the other hand I have found when one finds another model - like Arminius's then they rediscover their faith, or some go to Buddhism, or some I have known become Jews, others have found the panentheistic model to be the most satisfying. Others give up theism because all they see is the classic supernatural model, yet still like the experience of the church and its outreach in social justice or sometime it is a nice friendship network.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 03/28/2009 15:47
Brad's Ego,
Hmm, strangely (not really :3), the reasons on those lists are rather...negative. But I understand why.
Two reasons that I don't see listed is something along the lines of::
o they learned what they had come to learn from Christianity;
o they grokked with fullness the purpose of the Bible and Christ's message and everything that came from and comes from that and moved beyond it.
Just a stage,
Inannawhimsey
Mate
Posted on: 03/29/2009 19:28
One of the things I like about the Anglican church is the history of unity in diversity though right at this moment it seems to be in question. Like times past it will survive.
Jesus is reported as having said "you shall know the truth and it will set you free". That has been my experience.
Shalom
Mate
Atheisto
Posted on: 03/29/2009 23:24
Amusing lists...my first good laugh of the evening comparing the two. They seem a little stereotypical though, more like a viral e-mail list.
I'd perhaps add "it seemed like a good idea at the time...but that time was 2000 years ago".
Mooseroni
Posted on: 04/10/2009 18:21
i think alot of people leave because 2000 years has gone by and were still waiting around for Christ's second coming...it seems like the longer we wait the harder it is to believe that its really going to happen. WEre so far removed from the time of Christ, not just in a chronological sense but in technology, sociology, and other things about the time we live in that are so far removed from that time.
For people that are still Christians, the wait goes on, but ....at the same time it feels like we wait knowing that he is not going to come today. That is hard to deal with and be Christian at the same time. lets see, 1/(365*2000)=0.0000014% chance that he is coming today. Thats alot of faith u need to have
Mate
Posted on: 04/10/2009 19:21
You may well be right. I think it is time for Christians to quit waiting and get on with the business that Jesus suggested we deal with: justice and compassion.
Shalom
Mate
Pilgrims Progress
Posted on: 04/11/2009 04:40
Like Arminius, if Christianity was just about doctrine, I couldn't consider myself a Christian.
It's experience that is the basis of my Christianity.
JRT
Posted on: 04/11/2009 08:16
I am reminded of Mohatma Ghandi. When a young man practicing law in South Africa he read the bible right through. Late in life he said "I would have become a Christian but then I had the misfortune of meeting one."
Mate
Posted on: 04/11/2009 16:23
JRT
I've heard that before and it is a comment that makes Chdristianity look pathetic. I do think Ghandi had it right in many cases.
Shalom
Mate
The Liberal
Posted on: 04/11/2009 22:20
Yes, I am with Ghandi on this... especially in the recent months.
I have had one too many conversations with the most sexist and oppressive Christians...
I have become convinced that taking my daughters to church is a sin.
Modern Girl
Posted on: 04/12/2009 23:22
Everything seems to be so polarized. For me, it wasn't. I just thought about it, and it didn't make sense anymore. But that doesn't mean I jumped right onto the atheist propoganda-mobile. I'm just somehwere in the grey, floating around, because just as critical of atheism as I am of christianity, as I am of islam, and buddhism, and judaism, and paganism, and pastafarianism.
I really like #27 on the second list ;)
tinkerbell
Posted on: 04/13/2009 00:09
I think this is a great post- I have been struggling lately and reading that brought light onto exactly what I am falling short of doing and probably why I am feeling the way I am.