Well, as a Unitarian I probably shouldn't even be relating to the Trinity but, oddly enough, I do. I'll just add the proviso that I ultimately believe that God is one and that the Trinity presents images for how we relate to God and how God works in the world, not the true nature of God.
I think that if you are going to use the Trinitarian image for God (Creator, Christ, and Spirit is the language that I'll use here, since God really refers to all of them), then it is all or nothing. Otherwise, it's not a Trinity anymore. There are non-Trinitarian images of God but then you change the relationship and are into another whole set of imagery.
It's hard to say, though, if one is more important to me personally.
I think that there is a tendency to feel closer to Christ and the Spirit since they represent God's immanent presence in the world. One has a very clear human face that we can relate to, the other represents the power of inspiration coming from within.
However, the Creator is also omnipresent in the world and without God acting as the Creator, the other two are effectively meaningless.
So, I'd say that I relate more directly and more personally to Christ and the Spirit but feel the presence of the Creator through and behind them.
(And I just can't believe that I wrote that the way that I did. I sound like a true believer, not the agnostic I've been claiming to be. My re-engagement with my Christian roots is further along than I realized or something. I'm letting it stand. Need to contemplate on it a bit, though.)
Mendalla
revjohn
Posted on: 05/24/2011 13:15
Hi Crazyheart,
crazyheart wrote:
I was wondering are God, Jesus, and The Spirit always combined.
As God, yes. As persons they are always connected or related but not actually combined. God is the Father, God is the Son, God is the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son nor is the Father the Holy Spirit.
crazyheart wrote:
If not which entity do you relate most to in your life -God....Jesus.....Spirit?
For me it is situational, maybe. I've never sat down to analyze if I only pray to one of or all three. In liturgical prayers I try to keep a Trinitarian framework present.
crazyheart wrote:
Can you have one without the other?
I guess I can't. I don't always have to address all three persons though.
crazyheart wrote:
Is one more important to you than another?
Not really.
Grace and peace to you.
John
GordW
Posted on: 05/24/2011 13:56
In the end my theology has always leaned towards being Pneumocentric (SPirit-centered) as opposed to Christ- or Theo- centric. But in the end I am not sure how profitable it is to try and form hard lines between the three.
Arminius
Posted on: 05/25/2011 09:00
To me, the Holy Trinity consists of the universal or ultimate opposites (any and every pair of opposites, known in Eastern philosophy as Yin and Yang) together with the transcendental power that unites and separates the two.
In the synthesis, the three are one. In the analysis, the three separate into three. But, even in separation, neither of the three can be without the other. Although they can be contemplated separately, the three constitute one inseparable whole.
I am centered on the three-as-one.
chansen
Posted on: 05/25/2011 09:53
Arminius wrote:
I am centered on the three-as-one.
The (three sided) triangle is the strongest shape, so the strength of the Trinity can never be broken. Further, to be centred on the Trinity, one only has to bisect two side of the triangle and draw a line at right angles from those points. The intersection of those scribed lines is the centre of the shape, so that's where you should stand if you want to be centred.
Beloved
Posted on: 05/25/2011 09:58
As a Christian . . . through birth circumstance, upbringing, and later in life, choice, I relate to God through - God, Jesus, and Spirit. My understanding of each is always changing and growing. I think when I think about my relationship with God, I think about God, when I learn from God I generally learn through the Jesus who is my face of God and reveals God to me through the scriptures, and when I feel God I feel through the Spirit.
Mendalla
Posted on: 05/25/2011 10:27
chansen wrote:
Arminius wrote:
I am centered on the three-as-one.
The (three sided) triangle is the strongest shape, so the strength of the Trinity can never be broken. Further, to be centred on the Trinity, one only has to bisect two side of the triangle and draw a line at right angles from those points. The intersection of those scribed lines is the centre of the shape, so that's where you should stand if you want to be centred.
I like this image of the Trinity. You could also look at the totality of the triangle as the unity of God and the three faces as the Trinity. Take one face away (or focus only on one face) and you lose both the Trinity and the Unity (since it's no longer a triangle without all the faces).
Mendalla
waterfall
Posted on: 05/25/2011 10:31
Nice.
chansen
Posted on: 05/25/2011 11:36
*facepalm*
I rhyme off random properties of (equilateral) triangles and say they apply to a particular bit of Christian theology that makes even less sense than atonement (with no explanation or justification at all), and the post is immediately accepted.
I have some properties of circles and rectangles, if you're interested.
Mendalla
Posted on: 05/25/2011 11:47
chansen wrote:
*facepalm*
I rhyme off random properties of (equilateral) triangles and say they apply to a particular bit of Christian theology that makes even less sense than atonement (with no explanation or justification at all), and the post is immediately accepted.
I have some properties of circles and rectangles, if you're interested.
Actually, amigo, the problem is that the equilateral triangle as a symbol for the Trinity has been done (don't have a cite handy, I'm just sure I've seen it before). Knowing you, I figured you weren't being serious but it works so well that I couldn't pass it up.
Mendalla
kaythecurler
Posted on: 05/30/2011 21:31
One way I have sensed the reality of the Trinity is as............
there is You and
there is Me and
there is the Love that holds us and everything else together.
Olivet_Sarah
Posted on: 06/03/2011 22:41
I believe in the Trinity -
God - 'The Force' if you will, that which is beyond us, the ineffable, the 'Divine', the 'Holy'. The best parts of the world - often refered to as nature, love, beauty ...
Jesus - God's revelation, the embodiment of just what God is and what God means.
The Spirit - That which keeps us in touch with God, that reminds us of Jesus' message even though he is no longer physically here - our relationship to God, and the Divine within us.
Which do I relate to the most? I suppose all of them, as I think they are all incredibly important to the human relationship with the Holy.
seeler
Posted on: 06/04/2011 06:05
The Trinitarian God -
I think of God as One, whole and complete.
I think of Creator, Christ, and Spirit as three separate ways of knowing the One, who I call God, or more recently The Holy.
I look at the world with all its splendor, power, variety, changes and I relate to the creator of all - the one who formed it and declared it 'Good'. I am awed by the power, amazed by the scope, delighted in the beauty, enriched by the variety, and I feel that I am a part of, and related to, the whole. Since I am a creature of the created - I am one with all other creatures, and all other people. They are all my brothers and sisters.
I learned how to relate to the Holy through the life and example of Jesus who lived on earth as a fully human being but who was so closely related to the Whole that those who knew him best saw the Whole dwelling in him, and the Spirit reaching out from him to them, and they said that Jesus, the Son, was one with God. I follow the way that Jesus showed me. I relate to Jesus, who was called the Christ.
I feel the Spirit within me, and around, sustaining me, breathing life into me, reminding me of the relationship with the whole, and with the Holy. At this time and this stage in my life I relate most closely with the Spirit.
But the Creator, Christ and Spirit are one - God - Holy.
By the way, Chansen, the circle has been used to describe God. I enjoyed your analysis of the triangle. Please share your knowledge of the circle.
Comments
Mendalla
Posted on: 05/24/2011 13:00
Well, as a Unitarian I probably shouldn't even be relating to the Trinity but, oddly enough, I do. I'll just add the proviso that I ultimately believe that God is one and that the Trinity presents images for how we relate to God and how God works in the world, not the true nature of God.
I think that if you are going to use the Trinitarian image for God (Creator, Christ, and Spirit is the language that I'll use here, since God really refers to all of them), then it is all or nothing. Otherwise, it's not a Trinity anymore. There are non-Trinitarian images of God but then you change the relationship and are into another whole set of imagery.
It's hard to say, though, if one is more important to me personally.
I think that there is a tendency to feel closer to Christ and the Spirit since they represent God's immanent presence in the world. One has a very clear human face that we can relate to, the other represents the power of inspiration coming from within.
However, the Creator is also omnipresent in the world and without God acting as the Creator, the other two are effectively meaningless.
So, I'd say that I relate more directly and more personally to Christ and the Spirit but feel the presence of the Creator through and behind them.
(And I just can't believe that I wrote that the way that I did. I sound like a true believer, not the agnostic I've been claiming to be. My re-engagement with my Christian roots is further along than I realized or something. I'm letting it stand. Need to contemplate on it a bit, though.)
Mendalla
revjohn
Posted on: 05/24/2011 13:15
Hi Crazyheart,
I was wondering are God, Jesus, and The Spirit always combined.
As God, yes. As persons they are always connected or related but not actually combined. God is the Father, God is the Son, God is the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son nor is the Father the Holy Spirit.
If not which entity do you relate most to in your life -God....Jesus.....Spirit?
For me it is situational, maybe. I've never sat down to analyze if I only pray to one of or all three. In liturgical prayers I try to keep a Trinitarian framework present.
Can you have one without the other?
I guess I can't. I don't always have to address all three persons though.
Is one more important to you than another?
Not really.
Grace and peace to you.
John
GordW
Posted on: 05/24/2011 13:56
In the end my theology has always leaned towards being Pneumocentric (SPirit-centered) as opposed to Christ- or Theo- centric. But in the end I am not sure how profitable it is to try and form hard lines between the three.
Arminius
Posted on: 05/25/2011 09:00
To me, the Holy Trinity consists of the universal or ultimate opposites (any and every pair of opposites, known in Eastern philosophy as Yin and Yang) together with the transcendental power that unites and separates the two.
In the synthesis, the three are one. In the analysis, the three separate into three. But, even in separation, neither of the three can be without the other. Although they can be contemplated separately, the three constitute one inseparable whole.
I am centered on the three-as-one.
chansen
Posted on: 05/25/2011 09:53
I am centered on the three-as-one.
The (three sided) triangle is the strongest shape, so the strength of the Trinity can never be broken. Further, to be centred on the Trinity, one only has to bisect two side of the triangle and draw a line at right angles from those points. The intersection of those scribed lines is the centre of the shape, so that's where you should stand if you want to be centred.
Beloved
Posted on: 05/25/2011 09:58
As a Christian . . . through birth circumstance, upbringing, and later in life, choice, I relate to God through - God, Jesus, and Spirit. My understanding of each is always changing and growing. I think when I think about my relationship with God, I think about God, when I learn from God I generally learn through the Jesus who is my face of God and reveals God to me through the scriptures, and when I feel God I feel through the Spirit.
Mendalla
Posted on: 05/25/2011 10:27
I am centered on the three-as-one.
The (three sided) triangle is the strongest shape, so the strength of the Trinity can never be broken. Further, to be centred on the Trinity, one only has to bisect two side of the triangle and draw a line at right angles from those points. The intersection of those scribed lines is the centre of the shape, so that's where you should stand if you want to be centred.
I like this image of the Trinity. You could also look at the totality of the triangle as the unity of God and the three faces as the Trinity. Take one face away (or focus only on one face) and you lose both the Trinity and the Unity (since it's no longer a triangle without all the faces).
Mendalla
waterfall
Posted on: 05/25/2011 10:31
Nice.
chansen
Posted on: 05/25/2011 11:36
*facepalm*
I rhyme off random properties of (equilateral) triangles and say they apply to a particular bit of Christian theology that makes even less sense than atonement (with no explanation or justification at all), and the post is immediately accepted.
I have some properties of circles and rectangles, if you're interested.
Mendalla
Posted on: 05/25/2011 11:47
*facepalm*
I rhyme off random properties of (equilateral) triangles and say they apply to a particular bit of Christian theology that makes even less sense than atonement (with no explanation or justification at all), and the post is immediately accepted.
I have some properties of circles and rectangles, if you're interested.
Actually, amigo, the problem is that the equilateral triangle as a symbol for the Trinity has been done (don't have a cite handy, I'm just sure I've seen it before). Knowing you, I figured you weren't being serious but it works so well that I couldn't pass it up.
Mendalla
kaythecurler
Posted on: 05/30/2011 21:31
One way I have sensed the reality of the Trinity is as............
there is You and
there is Me and
there is the Love that holds us and everything else together.
Olivet_Sarah
Posted on: 06/03/2011 22:41
I believe in the Trinity -
God - 'The Force' if you will, that which is beyond us, the ineffable, the 'Divine', the 'Holy'. The best parts of the world - often refered to as nature, love, beauty ...
Jesus - God's revelation, the embodiment of just what God is and what God means.
The Spirit - That which keeps us in touch with God, that reminds us of Jesus' message even though he is no longer physically here - our relationship to God, and the Divine within us.
Which do I relate to the most? I suppose all of them, as I think they are all incredibly important to the human relationship with the Holy.
seeler
Posted on: 06/04/2011 06:05
The Trinitarian God -
I think of God as One, whole and complete.
I think of Creator, Christ, and Spirit as three separate ways of knowing the One, who I call God, or more recently The Holy.
I look at the world with all its splendor, power, variety, changes and I relate to the creator of all - the one who formed it and declared it 'Good'. I am awed by the power, amazed by the scope, delighted in the beauty, enriched by the variety, and I feel that I am a part of, and related to, the whole. Since I am a creature of the created - I am one with all other creatures, and all other people. They are all my brothers and sisters.
I learned how to relate to the Holy through the life and example of Jesus who lived on earth as a fully human being but who was so closely related to the Whole that those who knew him best saw the Whole dwelling in him, and the Spirit reaching out from him to them, and they said that Jesus, the Son, was one with God. I follow the way that Jesus showed me. I relate to Jesus, who was called the Christ.
I feel the Spirit within me, and around, sustaining me, breathing life into me, reminding me of the relationship with the whole, and with the Holy. At this time and this stage in my life I relate most closely with the Spirit.
But the Creator, Christ and Spirit are one - God - Holy.
By the way, Chansen, the circle has been used to describe God. I enjoyed your analysis of the triangle. Please share your knowledge of the circle.