A Pondering:

would humans have been able to be all that God wanted them to be without eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And does that mean that God actually needed them to eat that fruit?

Hi GordW,

That question presupposes that we know all that God wanted them to be in the first place.

It also presupposes that in order to get to where God wanted us to be we needed to screw up in some way.

From a simple reading of the text I presume that God wanted us to trust God.

I don't believe that in order to trust anyone we must first distrust them.  In fact, I think distrust typically arises when we have trusted and the one we trusted either violates that trust or falls short of it.

If we have given trust then that trust remains in place until the one we trust shatters it or, we begin to doubt that giving that trust to that one was a good idea.

Grace and peace to you.

John

How could we be defined as ethical creatures if we couldn't distinguish between good and evil?

I've always liked the Creation story as many Jewish people see it - a metaphor for humanity's evolutionary rise to self-consciousness. Instead of original sin, the truth that one cannot come to the fullness of one's entire humanity without acknowledging both the good and the evil within oneself.

The  Adam and Eve story is open to many interpretations.

Over the years the story has evolved in my mind - at this present moment I see it as the battleground for us as individuals, and also for mankind as a whole, to become the people worthy of the Kingdom of God - or to be ego driven and be preoccupied by our own gain.

I think Adam and Eve being aware of their nakedness is symbolic of being self-conscious -and aware of their own ego.

Prior to that, when being self-conscious was not experienced, their God nature ruled.

It suggests to me that we are born "whole" - develop an ego and all that entails - and hopefully go on to reclaim our God nature.

Hi GordW ----Your Quote     It is my belief that one of the possible readings and meanings of the story of Jesus in the wilderness is a time of testing to determine who he is called to be.  It is also my belief that this question is addressed in the story from Genesis.

I personally  think that Jesus  knew who he was before he went into the wilderness as He had been baptized by John . I personally think that Jesus was human in nature as we are and The Scripture say He was led by the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted ---so my take on this is that He was directed into His tempting to humble Himself to all things to be made like our nature  ---we humans have a sin nature and can fall into sin easily  and by Jesus going through this combat with the devil it gives us humans comfort to know that we have a High Priest that knows by experience what it is like to be tempted and can have a more of a sympathetic attitude toward our infirmities in an hour of our temptation  .

I believe that in the garden the woman was tempted maybe to see if Adam could be enticed to give into the temptation she presented and he was defeated by his own kind--The second Adam stood His ground and defeated the enemy in His combat.

Your question   What tempts us to go in another direction?  And how do we respond to those temptations?

We are tempted to go in another direction when we want to follow our own will ---God will always direct us on a right path with benefits at the end . We can respond to the temptations in 2 ways we can give in to the temptation and reap the consequences or we can resist the temptation by  knowing and following God's will for our lives and reap a harvest at the end.  All up to our own free will what to do . 

Blessings --this is just my take on it. 

If God is as knowing as many believe, then the story sounds like a setup to get Adam and Eve to grow up, to take some responsibility for themselves.  My children's story retells this story with a twist that will probably be offensive to some on WC.

Who am I you ask. Well I am dreamerman. Who should I be well dremerman. See there is none like me i am unique just like everyone else here so why worry about who you are and just be. To quote my late grandfather it is not nice to be a monster so be who you are and not a monster. Then again there are some nice monsters I know Sesame Street had quite a few.

Well, I guess the week is over. I couldn't think what to say before.

I guess my thoughts on this are that there are many paths and many factors that determine the choices we make and paths we take. Me for example: three people influenced me to upgrade my high school credits at age 36. Three factors supporting this idea, like a three legged table.  If it had been only one, I might have thought, "Hmm..." and wandered on to other thoughts. But as it was, I took the plunge and inquired, then signed myself up. Where this choice leads, I have yet to see.

I think I am not called to be anything, but rather that my environment and experiences shape me.

As for the tree of knowledge, I think we are meant to use our full brains, so yes, it was right that Adam and Eve eat from the tree. What does that then say about god being mad about it?

Who am I? Tyson

Who should I be? Wolverine.

I'm wondering where the actual emotion to disobey God, by eating the fruit, came from if one is made perfect? Does perfection allow disobedience? Can angels fall? Who's really the tempter here? God, the "snake", ourselves or the fruit? Even a rock is changed by it's environment and it will change in many different ways depending if it is set on dry land or near water,salt, forest, etc...

Starting to look like that snake and fruit were built into us upon creation. Does this mean God can be influenced by us then if we are made in his image? I wonder if God wants and needs us to make the right choices in order for God to be God?

Well Gord, once again, your questions have caused me to "go down the rabbit hole" as LB would say.

I think the myth is a reflection on the need to eat the fruit - the need for us to know good and evil and make some choices.   It is not all that could be, but how consciounsness emerged. To endgame but a process.

Maybe it refers to our growing out of childhood and developing our own ability to make informed choices, with maturity. Along with civilization (and being an adult) comes many unpleasantnesses, they come together though, and we must navigate the good and the bad. It is our privilege and our responsibility.

I think the fruit story also means that there is nothing to fear, that it's all good in life.