I don't see why this is news, or that people are reporting it to be a new law.

If someone doesn't want their breasts rubbed, and you do so, you're harassing them.  If someone doesn't want their legs rubbed, and you do so, you're harassing them.

Why do some think a belly has different rules?

People want to touch pregnant women's bellies and think it is somehow ok to touch. I co-parented a shy redhead. People just thought it was ok to touch her red curls like they were entitled to do it. She recoiled when people mentioned her hair thinking they were coming for her.

I've seen that with redheads too SG.  I've also heard it for people with afros.

I can't imagine doing that to a stranger, let alone without their permission!  I have had pregnant friends where I didn't feel like it would have been appropriate to ask, not that I had a strong feeling to do so anyway.  I would ask a really close friend, and have had friends invite me to do so.

I haven't rubbed the pregnant belly of anyone - and I don't fiddle with people's hair or clothing unless they are family members/good friends  who would appreciate it.  When I was a child I often had adults pinching my cheeks (the face ones) I hated it.  It felt like harrassment.

I guess I haven't rubbed a pregnant belly either, more like gently laid my hand on their stomach when someone told me the baby was kicking and they invited me to feel it.

Snappy thread title, Chemgal!
I think obviously the degree of intimacy determines the appropriate use of touch.
A partner, close friend or relative could perhaps share a certain unspoken invitation to touch based on trust.
I completely agree with you Chemgal - by invitation only.

Hi chemgal,

I suspect it has less to do with the belly or even the other person with the belly.  This is a case where the only interests being considered are those of the person who wants to do the rubbing.

It happens, in various ways, more often than we are comfortable admitting.

I remember years ago having a very long conversation years ago with a new colleague in ministry who felt entitled to hug me.  The crux of his argument was that I was at fault for not letting him do what he wanted.  And no amount of explanation of personal boundaries and an actual lack of invitation to that kind of contact budged him from his position that the real problem is that I am a cold fish of a person.

I hope something penetrated his personal fog or he is going to have a rude awakening someday.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Oh brother...

I've touched lots of bellies. Uninvited, I guess, I don't remember asking and I don't think it was ever offensive.

By the time a belly is big enough for me to think to touch it - probably the last month - she has been poked and prodded and jellied up for ultra sounds by a miriad of uninvited guests. And anyone who is in their second or later pregnancy has nothing left to hide regarding privacy having babies.

Regarding hugs. I never hugged or told my dad I loved him till the last year of his life. Then I decided it was time to get in his space. What's he gonna do? Beat me up?

What did the owners of the bellies think?

It doesn't matter if she has been poked and prodded.  It wasn't completely uninvited, if someone doesn't want an ultrasound, they don't make an appointment for one.

It doesn't matter how many bables someone has had, they can still request privacy.

These comments concern me, they sound like the excuses rapists use to justify rape.  "Well, she had sex with the last guy on a first date."  It doesn't matter if someone had sex with 100 people on the first date.  If they don't want to have sex with person # 101, that decision should be respected.

Consent doesn't always need to be stated out loud, there are times it's implied.  When someone says hands off though (as some of the articles made it sound like occurred here) it means hands off - not go ahead and touch my belly again.

Touching a belly is no more sexual than squeezing a guys bicep who is acting tough.

It doesn't need to be sexual for someone to feel violated.

I've touched exactly one pregnant belly - the one containing my child. Possibly two, actually. When I was a kid, Mom might have let me feel my youngest brother kicking (he's 8 years younger than me so I kind of remember it).

I suppose if some pregnant woman that I knew asked if I wanted a feel (ie. she initiated it), I might accept the invite but I certainly wouldn't do it unasked.

Mendalla

Because I'm a private person with very well-defined boundaries, I found the touching that happens to pregnant bellies both distressing and alarming. It happened several times in my pregnancies. If I'd been one of the women you'd touched, Saul now Paul, you most certainly would have thought twice before you did so again. I'm sure the people who did so were thereafter prone to second thoughts...I get quite an alarming look in my eyes when my personal space is broached.

I should have had a t-shirt that stated pointedly "keep your hands to yourself". Yuck.

You never know...

I have a way with pregnant women and animals.

One time I was at Costco and there was a pregnant woman struggling to pull a cart out of a wet snow drift. I could tell she was having a terrible day and she was trying to pull out a cart that was farther back than an easier one, so I knew the easier one must be really jammed into the next cart.

So coming up behind her, I yanked the carts apart and she kind of whirled around and looked at me in anger. I pulled the cart out of the snow and loaded her toddler and bags into the cart and said there you go and went in to shop.

About 15 minutes later, she tracked me down, got square in front of me, and with tears in her eyes, kissed me right on the mouth. I felt a bit awkward. A lot awkward. I'm  pretty good with it now.

Some people, either by nature or nurture, are touch/feely, while others are protective of their personal space.  This in no way says that the touchy/feely person has a right to encroach on another.

I physically recoiled when a minister I barely knew threw their arms around me in a hug.  It isn't that I am a person who doesn't hug, it was because I only hug people I know and feel comfortable with. 

I was about to type that I always ask before I touch someone - more than just a pat on a back, but that's not quite true. Last night, for example, I was sitting in a counselling session with a group from my church. My friend, who was sitting beside me, broke down in tears as he shared a story with the group. I know my friend well enough to know that he's usually okay with being touched, so immediately I placed my hand on his back and left it there while he continued to talk. It was my way of silently letting him know that he was not alone in his pain. I later spoke to him about it as I wanted to confirm that he was actually okay with it and he said it was just fine. I would never, however, consider touching someone's belly without asking. I don't even give people hugs without asking first (sometimes the asking is non-verbal - simply an outstretching of my arms that is reciprocated by an outstretching of their's).

Never touched a pregnant belly, and honestly I think I'd be too shy to do so even if invited.

I really appreciated this post Jae.  It is so open and shares facts that are intensely personal;

May I ask some gentle questions that would help me understand better?  Of course, I will say no more if you don't respond.

Unless one has had a pregnant mother or wife it is easy to see why you wouldn't have been in a position to touch a pregnant belly.  When I think back to those times in my life I don't recall asking sundry friends and neighbors to touch mine!

Do you know what would cause you to be too shy to do it if invited?  Is that because you would feel embarrassed by the baby? or by how the pregnancy got started? or because womens' bodies are sort of taboo to males outside their marital relationship?

No offence meant.

None taken kay.

My mother had three children after me, so I guess it's possible that when I was a little kid I touched her pregnant belly. My wife had had her two sons by the time I married her, so I didn't get to touch her pregnant belly.

I'm not a very touchy-feely kind of person anyway. In my family, physical demonstrations of closeness were largely frowned upon. They certainly were not a daily occurance once we kids got past young childhood. I guess if invited to touch a woman's pregnant belly I would just imagine it at the time to be too intimate a thing. If my wife ever got pregnant I imagine I could touch her belly, but that is not likely to occur due to her age.

As a red-head I can tell you it is seriously invasive and creepy and even leaves you feeling faintly unclean when strangers come up and fiddle with your hair as if it's some how public property. It happened to me a lot as a kid, and I've even had it happen more than once as an adult.  It's bloody annoying when friends and family randomly do so as well, come to that.  I'd think having ones tummy touched like that would increase the 'ick' aka the 'get the hell away from me' factor to the nth degree.

I've never had the urge to walk up to a random pregnant woman and touch her belly.  I've never even done so with any of my pregnant friends. Even declined an invite to feel my niece kicking.  And I can totally see where that would constitute harassment, especially if the person had already been told to stop once already.

I've never been pregnant but I am pretty sure if I ever was the first person to touch me uninvited would be pulling back a bloody stump.

I like the response of some pregnant women, they just rub the other person's belly in return.

I don't appreciate uninvited hands on me. I am not an overly huggy person- although hugs are a good thing when mutual- I do count myself as someone who needs a hug from a friend from time to time and I like a nice strong hug- my husbands my favourite- and have been asked for a good hug by friends or family who need one. I don't like wishy washy or gingerly back pat-ey hugs (better no hug than whimpy hugs) and I don't offer them to everyone I meet. I don't run up and hug people uninvited. It's got to be the real thing. I have only touched a pregnant belly when invited or with permission from a friend and from my step-mom who was pregnant when I was a 12. If I were pregnant it would bother me to have someone just put their hand on my belly out of the blue. Heck, it bothers me when people take it upon themselves to take my arm to cross the street- it's different when they notice I might need a hand and ask, but I've had strangers literally grab my arm at crosswalks, saying "let me help you" after they've already taken my arm. They were well intended, but...?

I feel the exact same only my bane is ringlets. I don't enjoy when people stretch out my curls and it ruins them anyway