CH

He was great. There will never be another Archie .....and Edith too.

 

This is a bit before my time.  I've seen clips I'm sure, but never an entire episode.

chemgal. I think Archie Bunker changed television. Watch. !!

oh, fer cryin out loud MEETED!!!

They would have been bewildered by the world today.  Edith would be flustered "Oh dear!"  and "Isn't that interesting".  Archie would have felt threatened by things he didn't understand and changes coming too fast.  There were episodes where he had to face up to his pre-conceived ideas about race, religion (as in the funeral), homosexuality, cross-dressers, draft dodgers.  He blustered.  But deep down he was a compassionate person, lost in a world he didn't understand.  

Yes, it usually took Archie time and struggle to adapt, and Edith was sweet yet flustered.

Nowadays, Mike would be right into the internet, and using it or not would sometimes be the subject of debate between he and Archie. Gloria would be into email, Facebook, twitter and the like.

"Oh, geez, Edith" . . . still rings in my ear.

 

This show brought to light a lot of issues in its day . . . racism, sexism, homophobia, societal issues, and much more.  Archie's blatant bigotry made us laugh, but it also made us think about our own prejudices and bigotries.

 

My guess is that when a computer entered Gloria and Mike's home (most specifically with the grandson) that Archie would have had a few names for it and a few comments, as well as cell phones.

 

If Gloria dressed the way women do today I'm sure he would have said "cover yourself up little girl".

 

If Archie were on Wondercafe I'm sure there would be one or two or more of us that would be called "meathead".  I"m sure he would respond to a few posts with "blow it out your ear".

 

 

It was a great show. I watched later eoisodes when I was a kid, and re-runs of it later. I was too young to pick up on the themes but when I watched later I was impressed. It was challenging. A character like him would be even more controversial on TV now I think- because he was so not politically correct. He changed TV but then somewhere down the line it turned into goofy ironic humour. Or shows about nothing.

It was a fantastic show that really pushed the boundaries on tv. Today it would be one of those netflix shows that everyone talks about.

Archie would be exactly the same with all he changes in society as he was then. He worried about blacks, Catholics, unions, hippies...... It would be exactly the same today. He would be as confused as he was then.

I think for people who didn't grow up with it, they will have trouble seeing why it was so revolutionary.

People watching it now for the first time might not catch the significance.  All In The Family was radical, different, on the cutting edge - nothing at all like the sit-coms before it (Happy Days, Father Knows Best, Leave it to Beaver, Lavern and Shirley).  

 

It was the first to discuss real problems -- a coloured family moving in next door, a cross-dresser, Mike's friend the draft-dodger meeting Archie's friend whose son was killed in Vietnam.  Edith's friend a job as a fork-lift operator where Archie worked.  Archie on strike.  Archie caught in a dilema of having to lay-off one of the three men he worked with.  Gloria's clothing.  Rape.  Poverty.  Gun control.  The clash of two generations sharing the same house.   Serious subjects - yet so funny.

 

One Christmas our son gave us a boxed set of the first three years.  We sat and watched two or three episodes an evening - commercial free.  And laughed.

 

 

 

Just a point seeler. Happy Days and Laverne and Shirley came AFTER All In The Family. All in the Family debuted in 1971, Happy Days in 1974 and Laverne & Shirley was a spin off of Happy Days that debuted in 1976.

Sorry - I associated them with the inoculous TV of 'before Archie' when a big problem might be what dress to wear to the dance.  

 

 

In that case, think The Andy Griffith Show, Green Acres, the Beverly Hillbillies, Gilligan's Island, Car 54 Where are You?, Petticoat Junction...

Nowadays it's a whole show.  Say Yes to the Dress and the other spinoffs :)

Mash was another one. A little edgier than your average sitcom today.

The 70's was a good decade. I feel like I was born 20 years too late because I was a little kid in the 70's. All the awareness and social changes people worked for in the 60's came to fruition then. And then what happened? We got 'reality TV' instead. Which came out of 'the Trueman Show' movie. Instead of that movie being like a warning about what not to do- the damage of it...TV producers actually did it! I remember being shocked when the first reality shows came out.

i can imagine the scene where archie gets up early in the morning and sneaks down to try to use this computer...

 

which he calls meedhed

 

he figures out how to turn it on, not silently at all

 

he brews himself a cup of coffee

 

and puts it in the computer's 'coffee holder' ;3

 

and at the same time the coffee dumps, archie yells & all three of the other family members who have been watching are laughing

 

My understanding was that the cast of MASH didn't like it being thought of as a sitcom. They wanted it to be taken much more seriously. And it evolved over the years, taking on a much edgier tone as it went along.

Inannawhimsey: you could write for the show.

My uncle was a clone of Archie Bunker.   (the only thing is, Archie had a warmer soul).   I used to watch it, laugh, then deal with my uncle when he came over and went on about the commies, hippie freaks, and blacks.

 

sigh...it was a mirror on ourselves

One of the many excellent things about the show was how the characters grew and matured over the years.  Archie learned to accept many things that upset him in the first season.  Mike finished school, Gloria grew up, they moved out on their own.  Edith became more liberated, and capable of speaking for herself.  She actually told Archie to 'stiffle it'.  

 

Mash was also an excellent show - very much anti-war.  I'm still watching reruns.  Yes, it did get better as time went by (and they got rid of the Frank character).

 

 

 

It had a laugh track, didn't it? I can't remember. It's been awhile since I watched an episode. It was more sit-commish than the movie.

Yeah, interesting. There was a laugh track for MASH. I just read that the producers fought with the network over the laugh-track- so they met in the middle and were allowed to omit it for the operating room scenes. And the second year of MASH became really popular when it aired after...All in the Family!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M*A*S*H_(TV_series)

And then there was Roseanne - I loved her parenting skills. lol

Here's Roseanne...!..its a very long time since I've seen her.

 

She lives in Hawaaii and grows Macadamia nuts.

 

My wife loves classic tv. but M.A.S.H. is one we both enjoy. I heard that Alan Alda insisted there be an operating room scene in every episode to remind people of the seriousness of what happened. I can't think of one episode that doesn't have one. The writers/producers solicited stories and such from people who were there and used some of that material. One example is Father Mulcahey telling someone doing a documentary about seeing the surgeons on a freezing cold day warming their hands from the heat of the bodies of the people they were operating on. Apparently that happened for real. Can you imagine those conditions.

CH

Roseanne has somebody on her website that we've heard about in the UC, an ex UC person. I don't wish to give the name.

 

Funny one thing I don't remember is a mash laugh track. I think some of its popularity was a result of the Vietnam war and the anti war sentiment. And I think they did a good job of reminding the public about the Korean War, which is often overlooked

The show where Hawk eye falls apart and tells about the woman shutting a chicken up while they were hiding, but it was really a child. Heart breaking

 

There were a number of episodes filmed without a laugh track, but the laugh track stayed for the whole series run, although apparently they went to a more subdued one partway through the series. Also, apparently in England the BBC (who broadcast MASH) omitted the laugh track altogether.

It would have more depth without the laugh track- like watching an intense scene of a stage play. I guess that's why, when I think back on watching the show when I was young, there were scenes or moments that moved me but I didn't yet really understand them. But it was the laugh track, the tool used to bolster humour and laughter from the audience was the thing that could attract even kids to the show (I think that was before they had parental ratings on TV shows). The same with Archie Bunker- kids would see a grumpy old man, his rattled wife, and their kids (who were a bit like our parents at the time) and wouldn't necessarily "get" the social themes, but it would plant a seed for later. I don't think people who make television now usually put that much thought into it. Maybe a few but they don't come to mind. Whatever sells.

Or maybe it was just what was going on at the time (even though MASH was set during the Korean War it alluded to current lessons about Vietnam in a more relatable way than Apocalypse Now for example) and they didn't know they were planting seeds.

I used to watch both, but I preferred Mash.

Wonder what the vets thought when they came home? Peeved off that the war they were fighting was entertaining a nation or grateful that it "brought the war home"? Could a good sitcom be made about Nigeria right now? Or the Ukraine? Laugh tract optional.

 

That one episode always haunts me, lastpointe.  Every once-in-awhile I will watch reruns of Mash . . . and it seems as though the last two times (in a couple of months) it was this episode.  Whenever I think of MASH I think of that one.

 

Nowdays, reality TV has blurred the lines between entertainment and news. During the early part of the Iraq War CNN took their imbedded reporters into the war zone and that "brought the war home" like a reality show- it was at first lauded but then I think some people started thinking that it may not have been such a good idea to do it like that. The Ukraine is relatable to many modern western countries already when you see the images and read the stories. The news arrives fast, almost instantly, and with YouTube videos- not like it did 40 years ago. I am not sure if having a sitcom about it now would have any effect except to distort what's going on even more. Likely much the same as with Nigeria. I'm not sure that "bring the war home" is the right expression in this small world today- we don't want any war - more like educate people, help people be aware of what's going on. I think people block it out and just pretend it isn't happening. We need to also ensure that reporters and networks maintain journalistic integrity more than we need a sitcom.

MASH was set in the Korean War, fought 20 years earlier.

 

 

Whoops, you're right. The Vietnam war was still raging at the time of Mash being on the air and even though it was about the Korean War, it was considered "timely".

The show was not meant to be entirely historically accurate I don't think. It was set during the Korean War but was being aired during a significant portion of of the Vietnam War- and directly afterwards. A lot of it was 'really' about the Vietnam War. It could've been set anywhere in South East Asia and it would still be alluding to the Vietnam War. That was intentional.

The laugh track on MASH quieted down as the TV seasons progressed. As prewiously noted, it was not used at all during scenes in the OR. Also, there were a few whole episodes where the laugh track was left off - including the documentary episode.

Crazyheart - I love your Queen of Hearts.

 

Now will you share your tarts.

 

Here is a trayof butter tarts . Bite in and sweet sauce over raisins comes dripping out. yum.

I've always heard that M.A.S.H. was "really" about Vietnam but setting it in Korea gave the network a bit of cover.

 

I'm inclined to think that was "Goodbye, Farewell and Amen" which was the series finale. It may been been just an episode or two before that but I do know that happened very near the end if not the finale itself.

No. It wasn't the finale but it was in that last season

I don't think that any tv show can claim to be historically accurate and mash certainly did not.

But I also think they were very clear to make it about the Korean War. They talked about cities and going on leave to places, battles....... The public may have liked the anti war feelings that related to vietnam but they definite put it in Korea.

And I am not sure it was so much an anti war show as it was a show that highlighted the gritty side of war that the public hadn't seen.

WW11 movies were all about heroic battles, people seldom ever seemed to get dirty. Mash was gritty, and cold, and tired, and mad, and young men died in sad ways. The triage scenes where they would pass someone by who wasn't going to make it were hard for the public to see.

 

Actually it was in the finale - "Goodbye, Farewell, Amen." The finale had Hawkeye institutionalized after suffering a nervous breakdown and Sidney Freedman trying to coax out the memory that had caused the trauma. Hawkeye remembers it slowly, at first thinking that a woman had killed a chicken that was clucking because Chinese troops were in the area, but finally he remembered that the woman had smothered her own baby because it was crying. Very powerful - and most definitely in the series finale

Steven is right, it was in the finale.

And the show, while set in Korea, was really dealing with issues from Viet Nam (in the same way that Star Trek, while set in space, was really dealing with issues from America).

Remember the episode where Frank was absolutely paranoid about bombs and booby-traps - thought his toothpaste might be set to explode when he squeezed it - and saw a local family burying something at the edge of a field by the MASH hospital.  He had men in full bomb protection suits dig up the 'land mine'.  It turned out to be a crock of kimchi.   Kimchi is a Korean dish of formented cabbage and apparently it is best after aging buried in the ground.

 MASH was definitely set in Korea, depicting the Korean war - and defifnitely anti-war.

 

 

Funny. I totally thought there was more after that.

Thanks for the info

Lastepointe- I think Jon is right. It really was about the Vietnam War- at least about exploring public sentiment about it. My mom told me that back in the later days of MASH as well-we watched the finale. I read about but don't remember the episode, but there was one storyline that was about something going on in the news about Vietnam- even though the TV story was set in Korea- and the food characters ate might have been Korean- but the goings on alluded to Vietnam.