I'm going to take some time to think about these questions and will get back to you Aaron.

Aha, the update question. I've been wondering if it was going to be asked again soon...

Let's seeeee.... It's been 4 years.

Of cource it's always a bit of a thing you can't really tell til years afterwards, but I think I've gained something of a discussion bent. I'm seeking them out more than I used to. ANd I'm probably more patient with other people's views.

I think about what I've learned/gained on WC from time to time, wondering how it's changed me. I think there have been a number of changes in a variety of directions.

I'm more open to/accepting of, the United Church now. I even feel a sort of connection, though I would still not go to a service.

One big learning is how liberal the United Church is. I learned that pretty quickly.

I think I've learned a lot about a variety of things here, mythological/spiritual things, as well as things about psychology, sociology, emotions and maturation, and a whole plethora of personal things.

I've learned that God isn't the same concept to everyone, that it varies as much as people do.

I can't think of any ways to make it more useful educationally. I have found posters' Youtube links to educated presentations very educational in recent times.

WonderCafe has had a very significant affect on my ability to understand the views of others. It has also enabled me to practice expressing my views. I am very thankfull for this website. 

When I first ventured here about 5 years ago, I felt very lost on the internet. Fortunately, LB and LoveJoy came to my rescue and gave me quite a bit of personal coaching. Thanks, LB, DaisyJane for the personal help and to the many others here who I have been interacting with me in group discussions. 

That's the kind of assessment question which is asked as people prepare to close off a project. One wonders if the Wondercafe project is preparing for shutdown. The liquidation of brand merchandise is another sign.

Hi DKS,

I'm not sure of the motivation behind the question.  I'm not convinced it is nefarious.

WonderCafe.ca is part of The United Church of Canada's web presence which means that somewhere it is costing The United Church of Canada some dollars and cents to maintain.  Given that GC-41 is in August and Commissioners will no doubt hear the familiar refrain of, "M&S monies are not enough to cover all costs" there will be a chopping block and something will be designated as fat to be cut.

Initially WonderCafe.ca was funded, as was the entire Emerging Spirit campaign by a portion of the Morrison bequest and since that portion was exhausted shortly after the beginning of the current triennium all moneys for WonderCafe.ca have come out of our already stretched operating budgets.  A legitimate question around budgetting is, "is this investment worth it?"

I enjoy WonderCafe.ca and would not hesitate to answer yes, WonderCafe.ca is worth the expense (whatever it is).  Support for the project is minimal across the Church and so, its future funding, whatever it is, cannot be considered secure.  I suspect that if anything "free" access to WonderCafe.ca would be the first bit of "fat" to be cut.

As far as the merch goes.  That was paid for with monies allocated by the Emerging Spirit campaign.  Nothing new is being printed, they are just hoping to get rid of inventory.  I suspect that UCRD wishes it was collecting dust somewhere other than on their shelves.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I asked this within another thread awhile ago and the respondent replied 'nothing at all'.  I've been on here almost from the first.  I've learned a lot.

First and perhaps most important is that there are a lot of wonderful people across this country and around the world (and with the internet the person on the other side of the world is as close as the person across the river). 

If learned that these virtual friends can support you when you when your down, laugh at your jokes, exchange ideas with you, correct you when you're wrong, expose you to different points of view, different religious beliefs, different ways of thinking and expressing your thoughts.   And most important they can rally 'round and support you with their prayers, positive vibes, encouragement and sympathy when you are going through a rough patch. 

I've learned about other religions that I knew little or nothing about - like wiccan.  I've learned more about the wide differences in beliefs among people who self-identify as Christians.  I've also learned much more about atheists.

I've learned more about my own religious beliefs and my relationship with the Holy.  Although reading, workshops and seminars were starting to influence my thinking about theism, my view of 'God' shifted away from a theist God.   But I am not nearly as 'progressive' as many of the people I have met here.

I have learned to value the Bible more and to read sections I was not as familiar with - and recently felt inspired to start reading the non-lectionary portions, which seems to involve practically reading the entire Bible from cover to cover.

And I have learned that I have something to say and that people will listen to me, and occasionally affirm what I have to offer.  It's a great morale booster. Sometimes I use thoughts and ideas developed here, or gained from others here, in conversations, study groups, or even in sermons when I'm invited as lay worship leader. 

I think that the WonderCafe has a lot to offer, and I hope that it is around for a long time to come. 

I am reminded of the axiom, "Never assign to malice that which can be explained by other means".

I am reminded of another axiom which, in my experience, the United Church often follows: "Good. Fast. Cheap. Choose any two."

And, of course, Facebook is even cheaper. I have found that the national office updates the Facebook page a lot more frequently, often several times a day, than other web presences.

This has been a historic problem in the United Church. It was thus when UCPH was at 50 Wynford Drive in Toronto.

WonderCafe, like everything else the church does, should always be looked at for its value and effectiveness in today's ministry context. But that was not the motivation for asking these questions. It was simply the desire to know more about the educational use and potential for the medium, as well as for social media in general.

I've been on a bit of journey over the time I've been here. I came on as a UU looking to possibly move back to my family roots in the United Church. I ended up still UU and not even that active there, with my attention focussed more on classical philosophy than traditional religion.

WC doesn't take the blame or credit for that end to this journey. Where WC does fit in is that it provided a chance to bounce my ideas off others, others who often had quite different views and backgrounds than I. It also gave the opportunity to re-engage with and learn from ideas that I'd either rejected or ignored in the past (for instance, John gave me a new appreciation for Calvinism and Grace and got me thinking seriously about the latter and the fact that the "Universalist" part of UU is rooted in ideas about Grace) or that had engaged me in the past and kind of fallen by the wayside (Panentheism got me thinking about process theology and panentheism again, ideas that had engaged in university but that I hadn't given serious thought to in recent years). Even the evangelical crowd helped me gain new appreciation for and understanding of their theologies, even if I still don't share their beliefs nor am I ever likely to do so. And, of course, the breadth of beliefs, theologies, and ideas provides plenty of fodder for contemplation.

THere's also the social aspect of getting to know new people, esp. ones in areas remote to where I am that I might never have met IRL.

In the end, I think it's the chance to engage with and explore a diversity of ideas rather than any specific knowledge or teaching that has been the real value of WC for me.

The thing with WC is that, like any social or group ministry, it's primary educational role is to provide an opportunity to learn from each other and to teach each other. I'm not sure, offhand, how that could be done better but if I think of an answer to that question, I'll be glad to post it.

Mendalla

Hi Aaron, 

I am fairly new here, and my contributions have been limited, (in part due to a lack of confidence related to being new, and in part due to a lack of prior religious experience/knowledge) but I am here to learn, and I feel that I have learned quite a bit so far.  

This is a diverse group of individuals to be sure, representing a what seems to be a broad spectrum of (mostly Christian) religious beliefs from a variety of denominations.  There are atheists and agnostics, and a few other different types of spiritual beliefs represented as well to keep things interesting.  I continue to learn.  It becomes obvious that there are also different levels of intellect and education represented as well.  There are some fabulous debaters here, and when they are together in a thread, I find I learn a great deal.  I am also entertained.  I have learned more about tolerance and about dealing more effectively, and more graciously with intolerance. (in particular, thank you, revjohn)

It is also nice that there are different places to go....  different threads.  Not all are serious.  Some are quite light.  Some individuals post only in the more social threads and some only post in the more serious ones.  For the most part people are friendly, and respectful, and I have felt welcomed.  It is obvious that some people have become friends.  It is a social club of sorts.  Definitely a community. 

In order to make it more useful for education purposes, I think posting scripture by the pages should be disallowed.  (Not mentioning any names. This has been discussed before. Also does not mean I hate the gospels.) Posting some scripture is fine and often necessary to promote an argument, but perhaps some sort of limit?  I love that people post links to educational videos.  If a picture is worth a thousand words, what is a video worth?

I really do hope that financial restraints do not result in the closing of Wondercafe.

Thank you for the clarification, Aaron.

Great answers folks. Yes, it's primary function is in the learning from each other. And the wealth of contemplation fodder, yes. There's always something intreguing to think about, and that often propells my day. And the friends I have made. I dread to think how lonely I would be without the forum, and how unexpressed. I have a great need to express myself, perhaps more than before WC. I take great joy in sharing, even when it's sad stuff I'm sharing. I too have learned that I have important things to say and contribute to society.

I think Wondercafe has taken on a life the United Church could not have predicted, and if it's original intent has not been met, that's no reason to close up shop. It is what we the users want it to be, and have made it.

I have learned a lot on WC. Mostly I have learned that everyone has an opinion and everyone has the right to agree or disagreee with that. I am very pleased with the fact that, for the most part, we have learned to be respectful in our disagreements

I have learned that the UCC has a tremendous amount to be proud of, not least its embrace of diversities and the commitment of so many of its members and leaders. Its open-ness and questions-welcoming approach to faith are beacons of welcome. 

WC is a great witness to this, as those of its critics demonstrate when they come here to chastise the UCC.

(The United Church would be nuts to consider closing it down when there are few such forums for faith in an almost overwhelmingly secularist and isolating society. Rather, it should reach out more widely and keep the energy levels up. The foundations are in place and they're weathering well enough, considering that it's been a while since the site was actively promoted.)

here here Mike

As the church has visioning events at Emmanuel, let me say this..."Wondercafe has the potential to change lives."

It is a visioning place. There are prophetic voices heard here.

It raises awareness of issues facing the world and our church.

It provides opportunities for people to engage with the church.

It provides a learning often absent and people learn about what LLWL and DLM and all that means.

It is a community within a larger community. It has and enhances the "give and receive" community with the wider church. It is diverse in age and education and culture....

It is a place to connect with our faith and the Spirit.

It is open to various spiritual needs and practices.

It is a space for exploring and questioning our faith to develop a stonger relationship with each other and with God.

It challenges us to learn and expand our knowledge of God, of religion, the church, the faith... ourselves.

I have learned so much.... and would loudly say "Wondercafe changed my life" and in doing so the lives of others.

But Facebook is free. And in the church, free is good.

Facebook has it's place and purpose but I find it next to useless for dialogue-style discussions like we have here. That's why I prefer forums like WC and the others that I hang out on or visit to FB. I am on FB, I check my FB fairly regularly, I just don't like trying to have discussions on it.

That said, I have a ghost of a suspicion that you're being facetious or sarcastic here and just not putting up a smiley. It doesn't sound like you.

Mendalla

WonderCafe started at the time that I personally needed a place to talk about my faith with others who were also searchers.

The United Church,imo, took a brave step, to begin this website and I think that money could still be used and would be worthwhile to do a small amount of advertising.

Since the onset, I have seen WonderCafe become a gathering place for people of all faiths, and people of no faith. I have seen people come to have questions answered and if not answered. they had the opportunity to discuss and of their own free will, make life decisions that  were good for them.

It took awhile but I saw Wondercafe, with its first babysteps ,teach us how to discuss with courtesy and if we forget , there are many friends here to call us to attention and to be reminded that we all try to walk as Jesus walked , seeking justice, loving kindness and walking humbly. with our God. even though our God may be of many names.

There are not many places one can go on the Internet these days that we are able to say that  we are proud of the association, of the posters, of the administration, and of the church that started it. I am proud to be United and I am proud to be a  part Of wonderCafe.May WonderCafe continue to do the good work that we see among us.

I've learned a fair bit about the UCCan.  I think the most interesting thing I've learned is about the wide theological spectrum it occupies, primarily because it doesn't seem to dictate theology like other denominations.  You guys seem to run the gamut, from wishy-washy through to downright scary.  That makes it difficult to argue against any UCCan theological position, as there really isn't one, on anything.  I think I once compared it to boxing a shadow.

I think this freedom given to individial churches is both a strength and a weakness.  It is said that you can walk into any McDonald's in the world and, with few variations, get the same food in every one.  I suppose marketers have learned that most people don't like surprises.  I get the impresion that the UCCan is the least McDonald's-like denomination around.  From me, that's a compliment, though other people probably would want more uniformity and agreement in their denomination.  I know from reading that many UCCan members are embarrassed or upset at the positions or actions taken by other UCCan churches and members.

I've seen United Churches in close proximity to one-another.  Now I know why - they quite likely offer very different experiences.

I've also read more of the bible these last few years than ever before.  I get a kick out of some of it.  I like seeler's "Non-lectionary bible study" threads because when I have the time, I get to see who God killed this time.  It's great fun.

One interesting thing, is how the fundies hate you guys almost as much as they hate us.  Maybe more.  I wasn't expecting the level of Christian-vs-Christian debate you get here, and it has certainly only gone up in recent months.  You have some very level-headed minsters who take part and do the UCC proud against both the pompous and the irrational Christians who find their way to this forum-of-the-damned.

What I would like to express, is how I appreciate being able to come here and say the things I can say.  I don't agree that the posting of friendly images of Muhammad is a crime on par with, say, murder, but most of my observations about Christianity don't seem to disappear.  Usually.  Even the ones that probably generate multiple "flags" from the easily-offended.  BTW, you guys can probably write a script to ignore flags sent from a short list of people, if you haven't already.

As SG says, "Wondercafe has the potential to save lives".

I know, because it has changed mine.

The irony is that I certainly wasn't in the target group -  a 60+ widow living on the other side of the world.

But then, faith has it's own language, it's own calling.

It was my deep sense of loss on losing my soulmate that had me grasping for something to hold onto -like the woman in the Bible who reached out to Jesus.

Wondercafe, like Jesus, answered my need.

I now know I'm not alone here - in three years I've seen many come here who are grappling with "dark nights of the soul" and found a haven in Wondercafe.

But, for me, it didn't stop there.

Sorrow turned to gratitude which led to two trips to Canada, and the opportunity to  meet and thank many of the contributors here.

If getting more young folks interested, through Wondercafe,  to attend UCC churches was the aim, it may well have had only limited success.

But it's success could  be that it's a forerunner of how faith will be lived in the future.

Not folks on pews -but folks online.

Faith not addressed in a sermon, but on online forums.

A sense of community involvement not shared in coffee after church - but in the social, relationship, health and ageing forums online.

Social justice issues discussed not in meetings in draughty halls - but in politics and global affairs forums.........

And to be truly effective, once the contacts are made online this should lead to moving the ideas out into the 'real" world.........

Aaron, as to your query about what Wondercafe can do to educate I have a few suggestions.....

In the Religion and Faith forum I would like to see a debate take place between a leading UCC theologian and, say, an athiest.

Another for a UCC theologian and a Moslem.........

Another from a UCC theologian and a Buddhist.........

An inter- UCC debate between a traditional believer and a follower of the emergent church....

etc, etc.....

We love giving our personal opinions here - but, just for once, I would like a debate  that is for our information only - from two leading exponents elaborating on their views.

There are times when we learn more by listening (reading) when we can lay aside for the moment our own opinions.......

Maybe one such debate every two months?

As well as debates, there could be articles on faith.........

(I would prefer to see these in the discussion forum - as folks have limited Wondercafe time, and often don't get to the Blogs section.)

One thing I was surprised by on my trips to Canada was just how few (even UCC folks) knew about Wondercafe.

Does the UCC, through it's representatives, mention about Wondercafe to High School students and at universities? An online faith  site is more "real" to many of our youth than bricks and mortar.....

That's my suggestions re education - and I'm sure there are many more that others can come up with........

See, Aaron, There is a great example for you. Pilgrims Progress and Chansen, It has been a delight to meet these folk here virtually. Who knows maybe we will meet up in real life too.

Sure.  I'm free Sunday mornings.

I don't believe you, Chansen! 

Sheesh, (that's me talking Canadian) when I came to Canada you instructed everyone to turn their porch lights out...............

WonderCafe has made me more tolerant of people who think differently than I.

I stumbled into the cafe in August of 2007, with an attitude and a chip on my shoulder. Well, the chip has worn off (most of it, anyway :-) and I even joined the United Church as a result of joining WonderCafe.

I found out that ground coffee is ground coffee, and tastes pretty good in all of its forms, but some mills grind finer than others, and I prefer my coffee finely ground and meticulously filtered. But even coarsely ground and campfire cooked cowboy coffee tastes pretty good. It has its fans, and they and their coffee are fine by me.

LOL - I did?  That wasn't nice.

At least I didn't suggest attack dogs trained to go after people with a slight scent of vegemite on them.

I've learned a great deal about different perspectives within Christianity especially. I also didn't know there were so many.  I learned about panentheism and process theology. I learned about the emerging church (by that label anyway), and because I was here, I was informed about the Epiphany Conference in time to plan to attend (thanks somegal). Attending that conference and hearing people like Marcus Borg speak was eye opening and hopeful...to recognize that there were so many people like me out there who feel strongly drawn to Christianity but can't quite buy into all the doctrines and dogma...who want to learn where they came from and some fresh ideas about where do we take it from here.  I learned that there is value in all of the different faith traditions...and somewhere along the way in my journey on WC, I've learned to discern which ones are right or wrong for me. I've learned that I am not the only one for whom Christianity is a process and a journey, not an immovable object. I have learned I do not have to buy into one perspective and cling to it. It's okay to ask questions and to learn! And from that, I've explored religious history which has also been eye opening.

I would like to hear more from people from other faiths and explore common ground. Some interfaith education through learning of other's experiences, in order to take an honest look at some of our assumptions. What we read about other faiths in books is not necessarily the same as the lived experiences of people of other faiths. We have heard some of the Buddhist perspective from Rishi which is really interesting to me, and different perspectivs from a few others. I understand it might be difficult to draw others from different faiths into discussions here...and I would hope their points of view would be respected.

There is much more that I have learned that I can't put into words right now...so I'll just say thank you!

Mmmm!

 Licked to death - I can't think of a more pleasant way to go.

True, that's probably what a Canadian "attack dog" would do.  We'd need to import them from the States if we want them to break skin.

Then of course, the American dogs wouldn't be very good with geography, and would attack Austrians instead.

PilgrimsProgress,

My wife says you hands down win the "oh goodness" award today. She might be having a hot flash reading that, she is fanning herslef.

I am being absolutely serious. I have been a part of too many discussions in the United Church where we were told by staff "We can't afford that and we have to find a free alternative." I believe there are those in the United Cuurch management who would seriously suggest that being on Facebook is enough. And the rationale would be economic.

We don't need attack dogs. We have nuclear-level blackflies and mosquitoes. They love Vegimite. And strudel.

Hi AaronMcGallegos,

Kind of hard to quantify.  I didn't come here with learning goals that would focus my effort and could be checked and evaluated for progress.

Did I learn some things I didn't know before?  Yes.  Most of that was about the people though.  It is a treat to read one of SG's posts and get an insider's perspective on Judaism.  When a Christian sits down and realizes that the bulk of the Christian Bible is not unique, or even original to Christianity you start to wonder why Jews and Christians don't agree more.  Christians always read the Hebrew scriptures through a Christian lense and I doubt we see them the way Christ saw them.  Having SG share a Jewish perspective opens the lense a little wider.

I cant recall any actual discussions with Wiccans before I met Witch here.  It has been a privilege to get to meet a man rather than a stereotype.

We've had a number of Atheists stroll through and it has been a pleasure to sit and converse with each of them.  Firstly, because they are critiques of my belief and my belief cannot be tested by people who will not critique honestly.  Finally, because when we strip away all of the stuff that informs our thinking there is a commonality and like Witch, most appear to be real humans and not stereotypes.

I suspect I've always known that.  I'm not myopically dense.  I just haven't had much opportunity to see it up close.

I guess I'm somewhat stunned by how little we really know about each other, particularly when belief systems come into play.  I remember a point a few years back when I challenged an individual who was putting forward a dispensationalist perspective and they had no idea what dispensationalism was.

Which isn't surprising on one level because I study Church history and the history of theological development and other people don't.  I mean how can the average Joe compete with a nerd in their field?

What was surprising, at least for me, is how somebody could hold an ideal so closely and not even know where that idea comes from.  Its like not being able to recognize your own face in a mirror.  Or maybe it isn't.

And when we know so little about who we are ourselves how can we hope to ever understand others we might meet?

One of the early features was a guest speaker addressing a theme of somekind.  That was a cool idea.  It only had one logistical problem and that was that the speakers rarely spent any time engaging in the forum.  Meaning that even if they had an idea that could spark discussion one of us would have to import that idea to a forum and quaterback the discussion in the speaker's absence.

One of the best things going for WonderCafe.ca is that it is member driven.  Those of us who feel like participating in a conversation can start one about anything we want.  We know that we have a ton of lurkers so, I'm guessing, that one level the reason they can happily remain lurkers is that conversations are happening which they are interested in but don't feel up to wading into.

We do have a WonderCafe.ca group on facebook, it tends to get busy around scheduled maintenance interruptions and other times it is very quiet.  Having a conversation there is possible.  I think the WonderCafe.ca format works better for conversation.

I'm grateful for your work here Aaron and for the other Admin types who tend to be faceless.  I have really appreciated the opportunities that WonderCafe.ca has offered in terms of conversation and face to face time it has enabled.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Naughty aside to SG (everyone else look away)

What's a slef"?

Have I got one to fan -or is it something that only Canadians have???

Aaron,

No more levity on your thread from me, I promise.

I forgot to mention previously that, with thanks to Panentheism, I have found in process theology, a framework for my faith.

This would not have occurred without  Wondercafe.

Trying not to repeat what others have written....

- Wondercafe is a microcosm for society at large.

- there are extremes in Christian faith, and people can be defensive and passionate about their beliefs. 

- intolerance and the desire to judge others is everywhere.  But so is acceptance and it is very much in evidence here.

- there are extremely compassionate and thoughful people in the world, and Wondercafe has those folks in full measure.  I enjoyed meeting some of those folks at a picnic 2 years ago.

- the sense of community found here is a definate plus.  As someone stated previously, this may be the way we do "church" in the not so distant future.

The best thing that happened to me personally:

- I became interested in Process Theology and Panentheism many years ago and did some reading on the subject.  Explored writings on the website Centre for Process Studies, but I never encountered anyone else with a similar interest.  Wondercafe has several of those people and learning more from them has been a gift.

As for improving the site - the freedom to explore and express is the best thing about WC.  I wouldn't change anything.  You do a great job of controlling trolls and discussion that gets too out of hand.  That's a life lesson.  At the same time members are allowed great freedom with respect to topics in discussion threads.  That seems to fulfil a need.

For people who are grieving or housebound or isolated, WC's value is beyond measure.

I am one of those who come and go depending on how busy the rest of my life is.  There have been a variety of interesting learnings for me including learning about panentheism and more about process theology.

It is helpful to have people like Revjohn and chansen offer useful critiques to positions I occasionally advance.

I appreciate the contributions of Aaron and Martha to this site.

If finances become an issue, would it be possible to invite members to make donations according to their own inclinations?

Arminius, Nice coffee metaphor.

Chansen, Glad to hear you'd be up for get togethers now. I'd dig a meet up with you. LOL! Austrians!!

RevJohn, I hope I am included in those atheists who you've enjoyed conversing with. I certainly have enjoyed many of your posts.

I too am glad for the pagans that have been here.

I've never been against one.  I even tried to meet a WC member once, last year, and got stood up.

when wcafe first began, i was a sahm who didn't feel very connected in my community.i was thrilled to be part of it and, as time went by, eventually meet several cafe-mates. i consider many here to be friends and hope to meet and/or get to know better more of you. i'm working full-time now and don't visit very often and when i do, often i'm too tired to put my thoughts together coherently.

Wcafe has helped develop my thinking and has challenged me to live out my faith right here as i work through what it means to follow the golden rule. 

Hi Elanorgold,

I am often loathe to lift indiviuduals up simply for the reason that others will feel in my not lifting them up that I may not feel that they are worthy of being lifted up.

I could have easily lifted you up as well.

While I'm being honest I don't know if I would have lifted you up as an Atheist though.  Most of your art and poetry leans away from atheism towards paganism.  You do appear to share a suspicion of the institutional Church and I'm not so dense or such a Christian patriot to say there is absolutely no reason to be suspicious of institutions of any kind.

I have enjoyed our conversations.

Truth be told it would have been much easier for me to name the names of those I have least enjoyed conversing with here at WonderCafe.ca.  That list is very short and very telling.

If I thought such shaming could be productive I'd engage in it.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Awwh! Bummer Chansen! But I do recall, like Pilgrim, when the Ontario gathering was being planned a couple years ago, you said to count you out that you wouldn't go even if you had time. Sorry! I remember it so, 'cause I've though of it from time to time, but maybe you were just having a bum moment. Glad you don't even remember! lol!

Mo5, Gotta say, I like that avatar! It was really nice meeting you on the phone. Too bad you have't got more time to type.

Ah ha, Thanks John. I agree on the naming names bit. I almost named some pagans I have enjoyed then thought twice about it. Glad you've enjoyed our convo's. Interesting to get your assessment of my religion. I had started a thread once asking "What am I?" I was hoping someone would say, "What? You're an atheist! Isn't that obvious!?" but no one said that. So this is interesting. Thanks. It's almost like being given a name, someone else has to tell you what you are. My art, so you've watched one or more of my videos.... That pagan drawings one was like an ode to my paganism gone by. I gathered up all my pagan art and put it together for that one. I don't do those types of drawings any more, but I still have a fondness for them, and their place in my past, and the inspirations that sparked them. Though some of it turns me off now, mainly the animalistic stuff and the sexual symbolism. Pagans are often too into free love and nudity for my sensibilities! But interesting, yes, thanks.

Elanorgold - for some reason I've always thought of you as a member of a coven, like Witch.  I too enjoy discussing religion with you.

Hello everyone. I haven't been posting much at all for a few months now. I was finding at the time I left that things were getting somewhat repetitious and more than a few threads were getting rather personal, and I noticed that in some instances I was falling into that pattern as well. That wasn't something I wanted to be a part of or a participant in so I thought it wise to leave for a while. But this is an important question to me.

I'm not sure that my participation at WC has been for the specific purpose of "learning," although learning has certainly taken place. We learn whenever we engage with other people; we learn the most when we engage with those we have fundamental disagreements with; we learn best when we can have those disagreements respectfully. For the most part that's what I valued about my WC experiences - the (usually) interesting and respectful engagements I enjoyed with other people with whom I had profound differences, but with whom I shared the desire to engage. So I'm not sure if "learning" is quite the right word for what I've experienced here. "Growth" might sum it up more. I think I have a fuller understanding of a variety of viewpoints. I mean, how many places are there where one can engage openly and enjoyably with fundamentalist Christians, liberal Christians, atheists, pagans and various and assorted others. And, while the disagreements remain, one truly valuable thing that has happened is the opportunity to find that even among those with very different views there's usually some common ground that can bridge the differences.

There are a variety of other online groups that I belong to. While I value those as well, they tend to be groups of relatively like-minded people. The result of those groups may be calmer interaction with less disagreement, which presents its own opportunities for learning, but the diversity of viewpoints is something that I've missed being away from WC.

If there is thought to closing it down I would hope that wouldn't happen. Because of what I described above, I find this to be a rather unique online community which has a definite purpose to play.

Ummm....no.  Here's what I wrote on the subject of the Five Oaks gathering:

Not exactly "[I] wouldn't go even if [I] had time."

We really were up to our armpits in work, readying a house for sale so we could move to a new house under construction.

This sort of thing happens to me here from time to time, where people "remember" me writing some pretty awful stuff...that I never wrote.  I wouldn't think that people would mix up my posts with Jae's, but sometimes I wonder.

Huh? What?

chansen, my wife and I were at the Five Oaks event.

What I believe I wrote beforehand was that I didn't know if I should go since I'm not from the UCCanada.

Rich blessings.

As far as I know there have been at least two Five Oaks gatherings, maybe more.   Pinga and I organized one the year I was vacationing in the area.  I issued a public invitation on the WonderCafe as well as Wondermailing many others who I believed lived in the area, including Jae.  But I don't remember contacting Chansen - either that was before his time, or he was new and I didn't know him or realize he lived nearby.  I am aware of at least one Wondergathering before that, but it may have been an afternoon in a park. 

The following year was the big bash when Pilgrim came from down under - I was unable to travel far that summer.

I don't know if there has been any at Five Oaks since then.  The big ones seem to have moved out west. 

I guess I've learned that there can be misunderstandings on both sides on the Cafe - and people disremember or get mixed up.  I think I sometimes repeat myself, and sometimes my attempts at humor don't go over well. 

I'm not concerned about it - I more think it's funny how people here remember me saying things.  I mean, Elanorgold and I are on very friendly terms, I think, and even she thinks I wrote something remarkably anti-social, that I did not write.  The rest of you probably think I've advocated eating babies.

Actually, I think that one is true.

chansen,I knew you didnt write it. In fact, if we were moving and CrazyDad decided to go on a picnic - Big Trouble in CrazyDom.

Back to opening question.

I've been thinking about the Wondercafe and what it means to me. In some ways, it reminds me of a church congregation gathering after church for coffee. I look around the room and see a group of caring people. Standing around a table, serving coffee, tea and juice, I see some smiling faces. This is the Social and Relationships room, and I know that if I go there I will be warmly greeted and genuinely cared for. In one corner of the room I see a group of people debating theology. This is the Religion and Faith/Church Life area and if I go there I know I will be challenged spiritually. Over against the wall, I see a display about fair trade coffee and some people discussing the latest legal issues - this is the area for Politics and Global Issues. In the centre of the room, I see children darting about and tugging on the sleeves of their parents and grandparents - the Parenting and Health & Aging area. Off to the side, people are thumbing through videos and books in the Pop Culture Library. We are all free and welcome to wander into any of these areas and share a little of our story with those who are gathered there.

I came to the Wonder Cafe seeking an unique online community, and I feel that I have found it. I have been pleasantly surprised at how many non-United Church folk I have met here,  particularly those from entirely different faith backgrounds. I have learned a lot from these people - and find joy in the commonalities.

Seeler mentioned that many of the recent Wondergatherings have happened in the west and I have been a beneficiary of that. I have been able to meet and connect with several wonderful folks from this site and doing so has been a real pleasure! 

One way you could make this place more educational would be to have more authors come on and discuss their writings. I would also love to see others discussing the work they have done in their lives - for example former moderators, musicians and people who have done a lot of social justice work. I think doing this could attract new visitors to the site too.

I started lurking on Wondercafe in the spring of 2007 . . . I registered in July of 2007, but it was probably a bit after that before I posted and eventually posted topic starters.

When I first started lurking I wasn't sure if Wondercafe was for me . . . there were posters with names such as "Witch" . . . who practised the faith of Wican . . . and this was way out of my comfort zone.  But I took the time to read what other posted and think about what they posted and what they believed . . . and Witch soon became, and still is, one of my favorite posters :)

I've learned a lot about different religions, beliefs, and worship practices.

I've learned a lot about people . . . how different we all, yet how we can still have some bit of common ground.  I've learned that not all believe as I do . . . about anything . . . and that what I believe . . . about anything . . . is not necessarily right or the only way to believe.  I've learned a lot about myself.

I came to Wondercafe with questions about my faith and my understanding of God and God's relationship with me/us.  I had some preconceived understandings . . . a lot of which were changed once I "met" and started listening to others.  For this, and for those who taught me, I am extremely grateful.

I feel I am in a good place in my understanding of God and generally what I believe today . . . and this is largely to the many things I have learned here at Wondercafe.  I am in a good place, but . . . I am not done . . . God isn't finished with me yet - Thanks be to God!