Hi, Belle - welcome back!

I guess for me to answer that question, I'd need to have some idea of what "community" means.

Christ's peace - r

I'm not sure it's neither It's mostly a place for complaints and lost hopes not a whole lot of positive anything.

"Complaints", I can see, Jesouhaite... why "lost hopes"?

Christ's peace - r

It is neither. It is a virtual community. It doesn't really exist. We know each other, for the most part, only through our online interaction. Sadly, virtual communities tend to be taking the place of many real communities. As someone else noted in a much earlier thread, there is not as much "visiting" going on these days as there used to be. Many people seem more interested in interacting with others outside work mainly through an online context.

I would suspect it depends on one's definition of community, but I would say yes, WC has developed into a community albeit one unique to its abilities and limitations.

It is a community made up of a diversity of individuals; teachers, healers, peacemakers, rebels, introverts, extroverts.  A community that is constantly evolving, attempting to define itself and like all communities provides different things for different people.
 

We share experiences of joy, loss, sadness and humour.  I have witnessed people taking the action of reaching out to individuals lending support and guidance, not just virtually but physically. 

Yes, I would say we are a community.

LB

We don't accomplish anything in this world alone ... and whatever happens is the result of the whole tapestry of one's life and all the weavings of individual threads from one to another that creates something.          Sandra Day O'Connor

Well, for me it is a community ( virtual or not). I have seen posters come with questions and problems and I have seen the community give support, wise advice, to help the poster through whatever is bothering them.

I have seen RL friendships made as people have connected up with each other across the country.

I have seen a place where posters with illnesses and posters who are housebound and lonely come to be in community.

I have seen questions answered that have to do with faith and spirituality that people as a whole can find no place in RL to have the discussion.

As in RL communities, I have seen jerks.( but is that not the way it is in any community?)

I can only speak for WonderCafe but I think for a lot of people it has become the church community that they don't have in RL. IMO

Welcome back, Belle.

 Thanks for the insights so far. 

Richard Bott - I could provide a textbook definition of community (or you could google it) but I'd rather see what people have to say in respects to their own definition. 

Yes, but I don't know if that's for the better. In older times, people would seek out real life communities, including churches, to belong to. We are social beings, and need the others-companionship. Is it not better to be involved with others on a real life level than in virtual communities such as this one? In real life, there are so many ways people communicate that are simply not possible here. A look. A body-movement. We can laugh more easily with each other when times are good, and support each other through more than words alone when times are not.

I understand what you are saying, Aqua but is this church community not better than no church community at all?

I can certainly see it as a temporary church community. An island in the storm-midst. Sometimes people need such a refuge.

My hope, though, is that people would in time move out to real life church communities, maintaining their presence here as a supplement to that.

Today, due to various reasons, people tend to find it easier to join on-line communities to belong to.  How awesome it is that a church has created a forum such as this for people to belong to.

Aquaman said "We are social beings, and need the others-companionship. Is it not better to be involved with others on a real life level than in virtual communities such as this one?"

Yes, we are social beings.  I can't dispute that.  However, perhaps some people here appreciate the opportunity to socialize in a community such as this.  I know I appreciate having this place to come to when I have a spare moment.  In the busyness of my job, I am surrounded by people, which I enjoy very much.  In the busyness of my family, I am surrounded by my kids, their friends, my husband and our extended family.  In the busyness of our community I am given companionship through volunteer work, social engagements, church activities, sports events etc. 

Being social is not something that is missing in my life and yet I am drawn here.  Why?  Because at wondercafe I can come and go as life permits and it doesn't appear rude if I disappear in the midst of a conversation.  At wondercafe, when in discussion I can scroll through, read & re-read carefully and contribute to discussion if I choose to.  If I choose not to add a comment I don't feel awkward or silly, because no one even knows I'm there.  I can be the fly on the wall, that quite honestly would be fun to be in real life.

Aquaman said "In real life, there are so many ways people communicate that are simply not possible here. A look. A body-movement. We can laugh more easily with each other when times are good, and support each other through more than words alone when times are not.

And yes, but that has it's advantages too.  Body language can certainly be beneficial but it can be harmful too.  Rolled eyes, heavy sighs, head shakes.....they can deter a person from entering a room, let alone entering a conversation.  Let's say a person feels inadequate, unaccepted and unapproachable in real life.  Too many times they have experienced unkind stares or body language that screams "Ugh.  Stay away."  Yet, in this community they muster up the courage to contribute to discussion because they are the same as everyone else....just an avatar connected to a heart.  No eye rolls, no folded arms, no heavy sighs.  They are not judged by appearance, but rather by what comes from their heart.  We're on a level playing field at wondercafe.  It doesn't matter where we live, what we do for a living, whether we attend church, what kind of car we drive, what our family looks like or what colour our hair is.....we are welcome to be here as long as we abide by the code of conduct that is the same for everyone.

I agree with your thoughts on this, busymom. I think of the WC as a community, too. I have also make real-life friends through here in my visits to various places in the country. I really appreciate this "place".

Damn.... there goes another irony meter

I think it's a great community.

I mean in what other community, of mixed faith and sensibilities, could I get away with walking around, talking to friend an foe alike, never wearing a stitch of clothing?

witch, you get a point for that. LOL

To follow on Witch's lead, my house doesn't need cleaning every time I want to socialize, discuss issues or find out more about spirituality and faith...heck, it doesn't even have to be a "good hair" day. Naked wouldn't work for me...bare skin on my comp chair - no way!

that's why God created terry cloth

I know a lot of you are still desperatly trying to get the picture out of your heads.

I urge you to stop thinking about it.

I especially urge you to never mentally associate reading a Wonderreply with the mental picture of me talking to you naked.

I further urge you never to wake up, trembling and sweaty cold with panic,  from a nightmare of finding yourself in church, stark naked, with everyone staring at you.

My revenge is complete

I know a lot of you are still  trying to get the picture out of your heads.

And get some of our appetites back ...

This is why I have never supported web cams on forums...

some things are just best left unseen.

LB - desperately searching for my Sisters of Sanitation Mind and Body Wash ^tm

Yes it is definitely a community. With a mix of all sorts of people some of which I must admit I choose not to interact with just like in any other community.

Dang I wish there was a spell checker I hope I spelled definetly right at some point.

oops double post sorry

Hey, after a day of fasting, even that can't spoil your appetite.

As for me?  I think WC is a wondercommunity! :3  Truly unique and supportive.

As-salaamu alaikum

-Omni

Yes I think of it as a community. And I don't think of it as a church community. It serves the purposes of a community for me, without a lot of the pressures of real life. Actually I think of wondercafe as a bit like high school!

Do you think place matters to a community and can a cyber-space substitute as community place? And do any of you feel a commitment to Wondercafe?

Do you think place matters to a community? NO

and can a cyber-space substitute as community place? Yes

And do any of you feel a commitment to Wondercafe?Yes - I have been here since the beginning and it is definitely a United Church initiative that I think is worthwhile and I feel a committmment to see that it succeeds.

Read the thread about TigerLily and Myst.  Friendship formed in community.  Read the thread last June/July about the reception I got when I visited a group of WonderCafe folk at Five Oaks.  Community.  Read about people reaching out over the miles to answer questions, give advice, or just connect with others - Community.  See Pilgrims Progress joining us all the way from Down Under - Community.  Join us in laughter when someone rants and us and then says lol.  Join us in compassion when we reach out to RedHead and wish her strength.  We are community.

Excellent post, Seeler.

Community is about connecting and sharing.

It's essential for a well lived life. (Even if we do need our own space from time to time!)

My take is that WC is a real community.  It is a different form of community than that found in some congregations, social clubs etc - but it is community.  There are other communities on the web - supporting recently divorced people, families with dying members, people who have been abused.  Vital support can come from these groups as individuals talk about the things they have on their minds.

Great post Seeler, and I agree we are a community. But I also believe that many posters on the cafe are very special people and that this forum is unique from other on line communities because of these people.

I agree that wondercafe is indeed a community. This is a group of people connecting with one another. There is care, listening, playfulness, concern, support, advice, questioning, risk, friendship. There is agreement and disagreement, there are commonalities and differences. There are times when people feel hurt and misunderstood, there are times when people feel genuinely cared for. There is shared wisdom, shared thoughts, and shared feelings. 

I do not know any other online forums so can't compare in that regard and while this online connection may not have some of the same components as a 'real life' group,  for me wondercafe is community.

I feel so fortunate to be part of this "real" community.  I can only echo what's already been said.  This place is very important to me.

There have been some interesting discussions on wondercafe about the word "real".  How can you determine something is "real" if it can't be seen.  Hmmmm.

While we can look at this screen and see evidence that there are words on it, presumably typed by a "real" person, that's about the extent of what many see as "real" with this "community" wondercafe.

If there are doubters that would like to see "real" evidence that wondercafe is a real community, I invite them to see

• my real tears that are shed when a fellow wondercafinator shares sad news or is go through a challenging time
• the real coffee that is spewed through my real nose onto the real computer screen when someone says something really funny
• photos of really great wondercafinators I have had the privilege of meeting in real life
• a really grateful busymom (who is really busy) who has had a really positive experience being part of this really great community. 

Really, I mean it, really I do.  For real.  Ya, really.

Years ago (WC didn't even exist, but I was involved with some other Internet communities), I did a sermon on Internet communities and how the UU principles could help us online. My thrust was that while traditional communities have been geographically based, Internet communities are often defined by boundaries of interest rather than geography. So, for instance, rpg.net (my other board), started as a way for people who play D&D and other roleplaying games to share reviews, stories, game ideas, and general chit-chat (the general chit-chat has it's own area called Tangency). It is a community defined by the common interests of its members with no geographical component. Indeed, it is a very diverse community geographically.Certainly, the types of interaction are limited somewhat by the medium, but, as busymom suggests, there is sharing and caring going on and I see it here (e.g. crazyheart's birthday celebration) and on rpg.net (where we've had some weddings and babies recently). So, I think WC and similar fora are communities, but they can, and do, have different dynamics than other communities due to the nature of online communication. In particular, they provide a way for isolated individuals, who may not have anyone who shares their situation, problems, and interests in their geographical community to connect with a community of common concern.

Mendalla

Busymom - I was thinking about the word 'real' when people were discussing their online friendships extending into 'Real Life'. In my opinion, the relationships formed here online are no less 'real'.

Greetings!

Hi Belle

Wondercafe is the only on-line group I am or have ever been a part of.  I investigated and became a part of because it was something that the UCC had initiated and financed, and I felt I should at least check it out.

So, I did . . . and I lurked for awhile, and then I signed on, and then after awhile longer I posted, and then eventually I started posting topic starters.

What was originally started with curiousity and a desire to see what my church was up to probably initially became a social network.  A place where I could read, post, question, and share, with persons similar and dis-similar to me in all aspects of life.  For me, it was a real eye-opener, and my beliefs and understandings (of God, faith, and people) changed, grew, and matured.

For me Wondercafe is now more of a place of community.  Probably not as much as for those who have actually met one another, or know one another, and therefore are closer to one another.  But, it is a community to which I turn to for reflection, growth, and understanding.

I am not yet at the point of com fort of posting anything too personal ... I still like the anonymity of being "Beloved".

Many posters have become "real" people to me, and I find myself in real life conversations with others starting to make comments about something that has been shared on Wondercafe.

Wondercafe has not, does not, and will not replace my church family and the community I have there.  It is just a different community - church and social.

Hope, peace, joy, love . . .

This is my one concern with Wondercafe. I'm a "what you see is what you get" sort of person, and as such I often feel "exposed" here on Wondercafe. There have been times when I feel I've wandered onto a beach nude while others are fully clothed.

I understand that we're all different, and many like Beloved, find posting anything too personal uncomfortable. That's fine, but honestly I do find it unsettling that when I do say something personal it's totally ignored. Makes me feel like when poor old grandpa farts in company.

Pilgrims Progress -- Just wanted to give my two cents about feeling ignored. 

I always read posts with interest but often don't always respond when appropriate -- even when I have something to say.  I know from experience that "exposed" feeling and wondering if I've said too much or incurred disapproval of the community at large.

I chose to believe others are like me in their posting habits and don't usually intentionally ignore me, even when I'm standing there naked. 

For what it's worth.

(And it's ok if my post gets ignored  )

I used to feel that I was being totally ignored when I posted something that I though was insightful, supportive, brilliant, or lol witty, and people just kept on posting around me as though I didn't exist.  After three years I've become pretty philosophical about it and decided that it just happens.  Nothing personal - it just happens.

Sometimes I do post something personal, something that I would expect people to pick up on and reply to - and it just lies there until its buried.  It just happens.

And sometimes when I post something that I consider absolutely witty, somebody takes me seriously as though I really meant it or was completely confused.  I recently got an email for someone who wanted to explain something they thought I had missed altogether.   It just happens.

Thanks for the reassurance Ninja and Seeler.

I suppose coming from Oz I have the added worry of what's culturally acceptable to Aussies mightn't be to Canadians.

It's really more of a worry that my personal style is considered offensive - rather than being ignored. The reason I say this is that friends who've visited Canada say that Canadians tend to be more conservative than Aussies?

Still, at my age I feel I've earned the right to express myself as I see fit, particularly as I don't mean to cause offence. (Queen Victoria said as long as one didn't frighten the horses, anything was acceptable.)

Anyway, the worries mine - I'll just have to own it.

Belle

Yes! Wondercafe is a real community. 

My husband passed away earlier this year and I truly appreciated the support and kindness shown to me by all the terrific people here.

He was so very ill for the last six months that I didn't feel comfortable going out and leaving him alone. When he was comfortable or asleep I'd come on here and read or chat. I really feel it helped ease my anxiety and tension a lot. I needed a break.

I've been on  a forum before and I read on a lot of them. I like the variety of forums (or topics )  and the constant activity  plus the caring and sharing on this one. I think its the very best! Its so busy that I used to get carried away and post everywhere forgetting where I'd been re replies...lol. I had to curtail this bad habit and  read but not necessarily post all over the board.

Do I feel a commitment to the WC?  Yes. As you give so shall you receive and I often feel that I want to pay back for  the kindness I've received. Also some people here have a wonderful sense of humour. If I'm feeling a bit down on a given morning I can always depend on the WC for a laugh.

WonderCafe is a real place to me where I can get away from the pentecostals who think I must renounce what I need in this life in order to have eternal life in heaven. Closing WonderCafe would be a big blow to me. 

According to my family studies textbook, yup, this place is a community all right.

I agree naman, I would be greatly disappointed if this website shut down.  It's rather unique.

As-salaamu alaikum

-Omni