another AMAZING ad in this campaign!! well done!!

i think that in some cases, we HAVE gone too far. i've talked to more than a few jewish people, for example, who could care less about what you call the decorated tree at city hall.

one, in fact, was upset because he felt that society was doing this, and then BLAMING it on him because he was jewish.

If we can take the time, to honour the traditions of others, understanding when to wish our friends, Happy Diwali, or Blesed Eid, or Happy New Year (Chinese NY) or Merry Yule or .Happy Hanukkah, then I believe Merry Christmas is good.

It means that we take the time to understand what people celebrate. We risk asking them, and we learn how to do that with grace.

If; however, we do not honour the faith traditions of all, then we, Christians, deserve the secularization of the holiday, and the wishes of "happy holidays".

Maybe we need the visual cues of being a Christian, the sign of the fish, or the wearing of a cross, as one cannot presume by any physical appearances that one is a Christian,...yes, there are trends; however, one can't presume.

So....I feel people should sell Christmas trees, Christmas cards, Diwali cards, Yule cards, etc...and that we should take the time to wish blessings appropriate to each, and...honour the individuals traditions during those times.

Why else do people buy pine trees in December but for Christmas?

It's a funny ad. Has a very traditional feel.

I'm not overly concerned with Christ disappearing from Xmas.
I'm a big fan of His but feel there is too much that is automatic, there is too much outward celebration and very little deep knowledge of who He was/Is and what He was trying to do.

Really good advt. Jesse

Christmas is a celebration of Christ's birthday - period. If you're not a Christian, then don't celebrate it and don't make it into something it's not. I really like this ad.

I was so Shocked by this ad, I had to write to you!!! LEAVE CHRISTMAS ALONE!!! Do your own thing, but don't take away many millions of people around the world, their important recognition of celebrating the BIRTH OF CHRIST. You don't take other religious holidays of other faiths away, so why pick on this one. IF YOU WANT TO DO YOUR OWN THING, DO IT...WITHOUT TRYING TO DESTROY MY,/OUR HOLIDAY!!!

I totally get this ad!!

I am starting a new job in January in a secular day care. No holidays of any kind allowed.

I really, really get this ad.

Kwind

By all means we have gone too far. This country was built on the old traditions from the people who built this country which was christianity. Now we have a mulit-clutural country and those who arrive expect us to drop our religious believes or holiday believes but honour theirs. Well it all boils down to the old say "When in Rome do as the Romans do".

My background is White Anglo Saxon Protestant and i love the Christmas tree but I suspect its origin is not Christian. Has it become a solely Christian symbol? My personal preference is to eliminate Christmas from the Christian church year because the season has become too secular and particularly too consumer oriented. I love learning and celebrating all faith traditions and I am quite willing to share the limelight and to move over when a significant event is being celebrated in another faith.

I think that while you have to respect other religions and discover them the country is still mostly Christian. Other people with varied faiths have come and created an multi-cultural country but the people that started this country, the people that cut down the trees, made the passage, believed enough in it to create the country we know today were Christian.

These traditions are in the fabric of our country, and while we do need to respect others we also need to remember that Christmas is a big part of the Christian calender.

:)

I love this because it is challenging to Christians as much as it is to anyone else. The "Christmas Tree" is a pagan symbol focused rooted in the evergreen and the promise that the sun will return. We Christians have usurped this symbol as much has we have usurped December 25th - which we all know is not even close to Christ's *actual* birthday. So it is not fair that society in general is doing some usurping of its own? Christmas is no longer a Christian holiday. At its worst it is a festival of consumerism and gluttony. At its best it is a celebration of family, giving, and kindness. Us Christians need to layer our celebration on top of that, but in terms of fighting it - we have already lost.

taken only within context of the tree itself this ad is kinda ho hum. Christmas trees are a delicious pagan religious artifact or a superficial European decoration and with regard to either one who really gives a gd what they are called?

We no longer use trees in our home.

Ok, so what do we do with christmas? I don't like the idea of watering down the christian holiday in order not to offend those of other traditions and none of the people from other traditions that I've talked to want that. Their holidays ought to also be as publicly celebrated as they want them to be. I don't think that the Christ of christmas is threatened by those on a different faith path.
Second, Christmas trees were part of a pagan tradition before we, as christians, took them over. If I go back far enough in my own family tree I'll likely discover I was one of those pagans. Why can't we celebrate the longest night and Chirstmas? In my understanding, God created the seasons and the natural world. Why can't Christians celebrate that too?
Third, I don't know how to handle my relations at christmas who are not on any faith path, intentionally or by lack of interest, yet question my wanting to take part in those christmas services which disturb their plans.
Finally, I also don't know how to respond to those (related and otherwise) who adamantly declare their dismissal of all things 'religious' but still jump into all the trappings of the season and expect me not to bat an eye. What do I say to those who declare that Christmas isn't a religious festival at all and faith is for the weak, yet still have christmas trees and 'who gave the biggest presents' competitions and huge dinners...
sorry this is so long. I've been trying to sort this out fo awhile and am getting nowhere.

OneVoice wrote: I don't think that the Christ of christmas is threatened by those on a different faith path.

I'm with you on that one. It is what it is...an evergreen tree that is decorated at Christmas time is a Christmas tree.

Merry Christmas, everyone. In respose to the ad in December's edition of Readers Digest I have this to say. To cut back on 'religious' expressions is ubsurd. What is next? Frowning upon those who say "Bless You" to some one who sneezes? No more Easter? Canada is becoming more and more "politically correct", without looking at who's toes they're stepping on in the process. If you'd care to examine Canadian politics, we see that Party Politics has become the norm, dispite the fact that it is not constitutionally neccesary. As a politician, joining a party increases your chances of winning, rather than running as an independant, it also relieves some stress because you have a party to support you, organize you, and in some cases, finance you. But once you are ellected, you no longer have a voice, which is to say that voting against arty lines is political suicide; there is no chance of advancement and you can count on being replaced, sooner or later. How different is this from Canadian society outside politics? Life is safe and easy if you know the right people, don't offend anyone, and don't represent a voice that might contridict the popular movement. Perhaps my analysis is wrong,the paradigmal lenses through which a misguided teenager sees the world are askew,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but to simplify my comment, we are so politically correct, we deny ourselves the individual freedom of unique identity within a collective group. Don't misperceive me, I am not an advocate for individual rights, but who could we possibly offend some one by selling a "Christmas Tree" or wishing them "Merry Christmas". If a Jew in your community wished you "Happy Hanukkah" would that ruin your day? Would you frown and correct them by saying "You're supposed to say 'Happy Holidays!'?" If other countries packed up their customs and religious practices, would there be such a thing as cultural diversity? This form of Political correctness has smuded Canada's multiculturism; instead of celebrating diversities and cultivating peace, we use diversities as a means of targeting and attacking one another other. Merry Christmas, everyone. God Bless.

"Mr. Lennon, this is 'Holidays', formerly known as Christmas, are we really giving peace a chance, and is war really over?"

Where are Christmas trees called December trees?

Merry Christamas!
I am a Christian. I was a llittle taken back when I turned the page of my magazine to fing this ad, My first thought was....Yes the UCC is going too far!!!" Where I'm from, many of the United churches are closing their doors and antique shops are moving into the buildings and setting up shop. Some have been converted to homes and/or apartments. Maybe these silly ads (I've veiwed the others..) are a last ditch effort to regain church goers. I attend a church of 400 in our small city and our Pastors are Spirit filled, Bible believing/teaching. Jesus is the reason for this season. Our family loves Jesus and everything He has done for us. We celebrate Jesus and remember His birth at this holiday. Christmas trees are a fun way to decorate and all the other holiday traditions are fun too. We should remember who we are celebrating though!
I just had to reply with a loud.......As for me and my house we will serve the Lord and as Christians we will always say Merry Christmas!!

LovingGod

So what about the "other faiths" respecting Christian Christmas traditions? It seems awfully selfish of them them to steal Christmas and say it is theirs with the "holiday tree" and all. Yes, I know that we "stole" it first and it WAS pagan but it is NOT pagan anymore and it is high time that the "other faiths" started respecting our faith.

If we went to Isreal we would not whine about Hannukah decorations.

Get real people.

I thought this ad was an eye-opener and made me very sad. I love Christmas time and all that comes with it (I could, however, do without the commercialism). But, Christmas is a christian holiday and to take Christ out of it is absurd! Christmas is a celebration of Christ's birth! It's VERY upsetting that you can't even listen to certain Christmas carols on the radio anymore or wish someone a 'merry Christmas' without worrying about the backlash that may result. What is the world coming to? There is so much concern about not offending other groups and religions, but what about us Christians? Why is it that our beliefs and rights are being trampled on for the sake of not 'offending' someone else? I'm seeing it more and more and it really worries me. Anyways, Merry Christmas to you all and for those of you who do go to church and who will be celebrating the birth of Christ, enjoy THOSE freedoms while you still can!

To be fair, I have yet to meet an immigrant who has asked me to not wish him or her a merry Christmas because it is disrespectful to their faith (and we shouldn't make assumptions that all immigrants are not Christian, anyway!!!). If anything, it is other northern european/british types who are no longer comfortable in the faith they (or even their grandparents) grew up in, or no longer comfortable feeling like their culture should automatically dominate North America. As Gian Gomeshi said (I hope I spelt it right) he and other muslims also celebrated Christmas, no big deal, as they see Jesus as an important prophet who is mentioned in the Koran too. Could this be an issue pushed by atheist/agnostic scots????

There's a cynical part of me that thinks that Christ in Christmas is just not good for getting people to spend money they don't have on junk they don't need. I don't think we can blame followers of other world religions for that, it's the god of Perpectual Economic Growth

I think it is time for Christians to down play Christmas and the birth of Christ and move to celebrating Epiphany. Then we could focus on the impact of Jesus on the world in his day and ours. After all he did leave the manger and grow up to do some impressive teaching, healing, signs and wonders.
And if we did this we wouldn't have to leave gift giving behind as Epiphany starts on January 6 with the arrival of the Magi with their treasures. This has the added advantage of being able to leave Christmas shopping until Boxing Week. We could put up lights celebrating the light of the world and sing some songs of actual theological significance -- even hold Epiphany parties. No one outside the faith would take offense because they wouldn't know what we were celebrating or talking about!

Not a fan of the ad
I work for the school board and we refer to Christmas break as holiday break. Now I was born in this country and I am a Hindu Canadian. Growing up we celebrated Christmas, Halloween etc.. We also observed our own cultural holidays. We don't celebrate Christmas in a religious sense but it's an excuse to get together with family and share gifts. I even have a tree up, as we did growing up, we exchange gifts.
I also feel that all faiths should be open minded and discover all faiths, but that would be an ideal world. I feel that if I am able to have fun with other faiths then why can't others do the same?
My kids will grow up the exact same ideals as I have. We get a 2 week holiday during Christmas if you work for the board, but we only get 1 day to observe Diwali, which is our new year. There is no equality. If that doesn't change then I don't think that our children will grow up thinking that everyone should be treated the same.

Repy to "I'm invisible"

Hey, try being invisible if you're a Senior, and not a working mom ( done that, years ago-- and I understand)
Try going to an event where you know a number of people - and t his applies also to going to church - and you find again and again that it wasnt really YOU that they were saying hello to, no, it's that younger person behind you.
Or - You're ready and willing with years of experience in meetings and being an officer in a number of positions -- but it's not your name that comes up when they're looking for workers. No. It didnt occur to them. If you have a recurring sense of humour, they'll notice, but you have to be on the alert for that.
And then - try to find your way around this web-site! Sigh.
Cheers, anyway, kids.

I think it is a personal decision whether to celebrate the Christian aspects of Christmas or the secular aspects. My family does both. We love the idea that it's Jesus' birthday we are leading up to. We also like the fun of secular decorations and parties etc. Our Christian faith infuses it all. Even Santa, who I always told my child had the generous and loving nature of God.

However, if someone is not a Christian, they can still enjoy the secular aspects or twist them into their own faith understandings. It is good to celebrate family, happiness, generosity.

In other words, if the tree seller celebrates Christmas in a Christian way, then Christmas trees are great. If he wants to call them December trees, then let him! I won't take offence. I'll just buy the tree and treat it the way I want to.

The problem lies when a group, such as a school, insists that children who are not Christians participate in Christian pageants etc. However, I believe that everyone recognizes that Christmas is indeed a Christian holiday at its heart and that a pageant etc can be done without proseletyzing but instead as religious studies. Every child and adult should know something about all the major world religions, particularly those which are adhered to by their friends and community. For that reason, my public schools in North Vancouver also take the opportunity of other religious holidays to teach something of those religions. There has never been any conflict that I know of about this. Our elementary school has a large painting of the nativity scene at Christmas and Jewish art, Muslim activities etc at appropriate times. Respect is a paramount teaching to our children in all aspects of their education. We needn't hold the same views or customs or religions but we do need to be respectful.

So - I'm not worrried by "December trees" but I would be if the tree seller began trying to convince his customers to become Christians through active proselytizing or by calling down other religions as they shopped .

Who has taken Christ out of Christmas?
Is it the culture that does not believe in Christ and own many of the business we shop at?
Is it the culture that celebrates Christmas on a differnt day than we do?
Is it the people who do not attend Church because it does not appeal to them?
Is it the people who attend church but allowed Christ be downgraded to a Small c or X?
The people who do not believe the Bible?
The people who do not believe in the authenticity of Christ?
Or is it people who has very little else and get caught up in the lights and the shopping?

I do believe we've gone too far. I have many friends of many other faiths and they don't care if they are wished a Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukah or happy Kwanza and they admire the decorations just as much as us Christians. In fact the only ones I've noticed who do care are people who don't believe in anything. MERRY CHRISTMAS!

I really like the Christmas Tree ad. For me it says it all in a nutshell.
We have and are going too far. We really do not understand the fesitive holidays of other religions and we are afraid of stepping on their toes. Why? I have no idea. I agree with others who said that all special festivals of other religions should be honoured in a more open society, this would educate everyone and hopefully bring us more in line to respect each others religion and traditions.

For those who remember the late Bob Hope.For as meny years as I can remember He used to travel and intertain the troops each Chriatmas. When asked in an interview why He spent all those Christmas's away for home He answered that he was Jewish and did not celibrate Christmas.
So is the Christian celebration of Christmas,just a present buying competition, that should be droped for other religion's celibrations.

Everyone, why are we discussing a very old tradition that is not very environmentally friendly anyway?

Could one argue and or debate that we are not insane when it comes to our traditions?

Does our Father in Heaven in His Scripture talk about this to our detriment?

We are pleased to have come to the knowledge that His Ways and the example of His Son are not our ways!

They have such a higher standard and quality of life but we continue to choose what we have created in our traditions do we not?

Mark 7:7-9

And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as teachings the commands of
men.' "Forsaking the command of Elohim, you hold fast the tradition of men."
And He said to them, "Well do you set aside the command of Elohim, in order to guard your tradition.

And so it goes, from the beginning of our time we have constantly denied the Way, Truth and the Life.

Goodnight everyone,

No offense...but... MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!

Happy Holidays, eh? Which one? Why can't people just accept that Christmas is Christmas?

Yup, you bet. Secular humanists have tried to steal this Holy Day celebration of Jesus Christ's birth and turn it into just another holiday. They have almost succeeded but I just ignor them, say Merry Christmas to everyone and continue to celebrate Jesus in the traditional Christian way at Christmastime. As for me in my house, I will serve the Lord. Merry Christmas all!

It seems that Christmas has lost the idea that Christ is in it. The secular world has to accept some blame for this, but surely our political parties, in their rush to get votes by not "offending" potential voters, have managed to trample on everybody's toes. In a pluralistic society we ought to be able to celebrate all forms of worship of God; however, one would hope that it is not at the expense of denigrating the majority to get votes.
We must not be smug or arrogant about being the Christian majority in Canadian society; nonetheless, we ought not feel that we have to be apologetic about being Christian. This naturally entails that we must also honour and respect other religious views. Christmas trees surely are not symbols of oppression. Indeed, any honest expression of worship of God is to be welcomed.

Inneresting riffy history:

The Puritans were an such an extremely conservative sect of Christianity, they were too conservative for Europe and so ended up fleeing to the New World where their brand of Christianity could continue to grow, producing another strange offshoot of Christianity, American Fundamentalist Protestantism, with its invention of Biblical Literalism.

Oliver Cromwell, a prominent Puritan figure in the UK, once banned Christmas. Here is a link to a short bit http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/cromwell_england.htm

So, I don't think we're even close to the Puritans, but I do see the Puritan influence :3

Let it snow and shine and rain,
Inannawhimsey

JGrady, how would you "denigrate the majority to gain votes"? It's really interesting how many Christians found this ad to be profoundly threatening. Many people who commented on this thread feel that their right to celebrate Christmas, be honest about their religious identity, and have people realize that Canada was founded by Christians is under attack. I'm a Christian who's not particularly fond of Christmas, but I know other people are. I don't think it's going away any time soon, and I don't think anyone needs to feel afraid to say "Merry Christmas" during the holidays--I'd really be surprised if anyone had gotten lectured about its political correctness, except maybe in the context of an official welcome in the course of one's job.I live in Vancouver, BC, one of the more culturally diverse cities in North America. Christmas and other festivals are celebrated openly without Christians being forced by Secular Humanists to conceal themselves. Conservative radio and TV personalities in the US have been known to sensationalize controversies over town space or money going to public Christmas trees to convince listeners that Christmas is under attack. What if a US town funded a Diwali candle! Separation of Church and State!
But I digress. The ad was so simple, the response was that Christmas and Christianity was under attack, the United Church was advocating it, that's why the UCC has empty pews. Well, at least one thing never changes. The world is changing. Change is scary. There are Churches to go to that will shelter you from that.
(Jesus is a prophet in Islam and Mary's devoted obedience to God, making her an exemplary Muslim, mean Christmas is not just for us Christians)

Christmas will always be Christmas to me, and I believe to other Christians. Do we ask other religions to change their religious holidays? No! I believe the more we water down the Christian faith and honouring of the special days in our tradition the more faded we become... and less respected by other religions. As the hymn says: "Stand up stand up for Jesus, ye soldier of the Cross!"

Amen!

I love the ad!! There is so much political correctness, that Christians have become the ones penalized! Saying Merry Christmas is a happy, joyous expression - whether or not someone celebrates the holiday or not, so nothing harmful is meant from it. As a Christian I wouldn't be offended if someone wished me Happy Dewali, because it was meant as gesture of kindness. Society needs to relax, and if we want to wish Merry Christmas so be it!! What is next - hiding our cross necklaces under our sweaters so as not to offend anyone who sees them??!!!!!!!!!!!

I have to agree with the majority of people and say it's Christmas...keep it that way. If christian's observe other faith's religious holidays, why is it that the coperate world descends upon christmas like it does. I don't like the corporate world... lol.

A muslim, I don't celebrate christmas per se anymore, but that doesn't stop me from recognizing it as representing the birth of christ.

Stop the de-religiousism, and modesty! Proclaim you faith with pride!

Fun fact of the day, did you know it's illegal in france to wear a cross where people can see it? True stuff!

Peace be upon you all,
-Omni

Recently there was an excellent e-mail that we received from others on Ben Stein and his confession that he shared (article attached to e-mail) with CBS Sun. Morning titled, "I can only hope we find God again before it is too late!!

Here is an excerpt of that article.

"Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'"

Does it seem that there is a human systematic approach to remove the Father in Heaven and His only begotten Son and their Names / Titles from every thing we call dear in our lives?
Everyone knows that the name and or title humankind has given our Father in Heaven has been God and or the Lord and as the Ben Stein article mentioned above that we are allowing even this man made name and or title (God / Lord) "to be removed from our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives."
If this isn't bad enough it just got worse.
Other people and institutions are now attempting to eliminate His real Name as well.
What does Scripture say about this; let us use two different translations to find out?
The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Shemoth (Exodus) 3:15
And Elohim said further to Mosheh, "Thus you are to say to the children of Yisra'el, "˜YHWH Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Yitshaq, and the Elohim of Ya'aqob, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations.'
The true Name of the Father YAHUWEH (YHWH) actually means, "He will cause to become" and this is why we recognize Him as our very Creator.
The title ELOHIM is and its other uses are as follows;

o El, Eloah, Elohim, Elahin, Elyon:

o El: Mighty One, Strength

o Eloah: Singular form of Elohim, has same meaning as El.

o Elohim: Plural of Eloah, Rulers, Messengers.

o Elyon, El Elyon: The Most High El.

o The word "El" is a very ancient Semitic term. Among Semitic languages it is one of the most used terms for greatness, strength or deity. In Hebrew religious usage it does not denote a proper name but is used as a title.

King James Version / Exodus 3:15
And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Are we as a society suicidal when we allow others to strive and work so hard to eliminate the title and name we have given to our Father in Heaven let alone now the announcement of eliminating His real NAME out of worship services?

Please read the following six recent web based news articles of this next age old evolutionary ELIMINATION PROCESS used many times before of people and institutions that are systemically eliminating our Father in Heaven and His only begotten Son from everything in this world we hold dear and replacing it with age old traditions.

Vatican: Don't Use "YHWH" in Catholic Worship
The Vatican says

Catholics should not use the divine name in Catholic worship.

The Hebrew word yhwh, probably pronounced Yahweh, is God's revealed name. For most of their history, Jews refused to pronounce the name, which is why scholars are not 100% sure which vowels should even be used when pronouncing the name, because early Hebrew texts lack vowels and the exact pronunciation was lost. Over the years, Jews and Christians alike have used the word "Lord" as a euphemism for the divine name. Lord in Hebrew is adonai, in Greek, kurios, and in Latin, dominus.

I have never been comfortable pronouncing the divine name in liturgical settings. First, most of the songs that use the divine name are 70sish songs that aren't exactly my style. Second, Jewish concerns aside, we Christians have a long tradition of using the euphemism "Lord" in place of the divine name. I guess I don't fully understand why there was an emphasis on using the divine name in the 1960s and 1970s (perhaps the influential Jerusalem Bible, which uses the divine name in the Old Testament, is one reason). In our modern culture where "words are just words," this might not make sense, but there is a long history of reverance associated with the name of God.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vatican bans use of "˜YHWH'
Thursday, 4th September 2008. 1:37pm

By: Roberto Sanchez Guevara.

"The Hebrew name for God is not to be used or pronounced in liturgical celebrations, songs and prayers," said a letter addressed to the bishops' conferences of the world from Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

The letter concerns the use of the "Tetragrammaton," the name which uses the four Hebrew letters YHWH. In English the name is pronounced "Yahweh." "The words of sacred Scripture contained in the Old and New Testament express truth which transcends the limits imposed by time and place," the letter explains. "They are the word of God expressed in human words, and by means of these words of life, the Holy Spirit introduces the faithful to knowledge of the truth whole and entire, and thus the word of Christ comes to dwell in the faithful in all its richness."

The Cardinal's letter teaches that, as an example, there are five acceptable translations of the title in five European languages: Lord, Signore, Seigneur, Herr, and Señor. He describes the term YHWH as "an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God," which he says "was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: Adonai, which means Lord."

Cardinal Arinze, citing the instruction Liturgiam Authenticam, explains that translators must use the "greatest faithfulness and respect" regarding the name of God.

This translation tradition has importance for understanding Christ, the Cardinal explains, since the title "Lord" in fact "becomes interchangeable between the God of Israel and the Messiah of the Christian faith." Cardinal Arinze particularly cites St Paul 's writings: "God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name"¦ every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Bishop Arthur Serratelli, chairman of the US bishops' Committee on Divine Worship, said that the orders might result in "some impact on the use of particular pieces of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration of the Mass and the other sacraments."

Contact our Europe Desk

Yahweh' not to be used in liturgy, songs and prayers, Cardinal

Arinze says Vatican City, Sep 3, 2008 / 05:30 am (CNA)

The Hebrew name for God is not to be used or pronounced in liturgical celebrations, songs and prayers, Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, has said in a letter addressed to the bishops' conferences of the world.

The letter concerns the use of the "Tetragrammaton," the name which uses the four Hebrew letters YHWH. In English the name is pronounced "Yahweh."

Cardinal Arinze's letter teaches that the Tetragrammaton is to be translated as the equivalent of the Hebrew title "Adonai" or the Greek title "Kyrios." He lists as examples five acceptable translations of the title in five European languages: Lord, Signore, Seigneur, Herr, and Señor.

Regarding translations in the liturgical context, the letter instructs, "Adonai" is to be translated in English as "Lord" and the Tetragrammaton YHWH is to be translated as "God."

"The words of sacred Scripture contained in the Old and New Testament express truth which transcends the limits imposed by time and place," the letter explains. "They are the word of God expressed in human words, and by means of these words of life, the Holy Spirit introduces the faithful to knowledge of the truth whole and entire, and thus the word of Christ comes to dwell in the faithful in all its richness."

Cardinal Arinze, citing the instruction Liturgiam Authenticam, explains that translators must use the "greatest faithfulness and respect" regarding the name of God.

He describes the YHWH as "an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God," which he says "was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: Adonai, which means Lord."

This translation tradition has importance for understanding Christ, the cardinal explains, since the title "Lord" in fact "becomes interchangeable between the God of Israel and the Messiah of the Christian faith."

Cardinal Arinze particularly cites St. Paul 's writings in the Letter to the Philippians, in which he wrote: "God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name"¦ every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."

Bishop Arthur Serratelli, chairman of the U.S. bishops' Committee on Divine Worship, said in a note to U.S. Bishops that the instructions do not force any changes to "official liturgical texts" but might result in "some impact on the use of particular pieces of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration of the Mass and the other sacraments."

To fulfill the directive, songs with phrases such as "Yahweh, I know you are near" will need to be modified.

CBCP News
"˜Yahweh' not to be used in liturgy, songs and prayers, Cardinal Arinze says
VATICAN, Sept. 3, 2008

The Hebrew name for God is not to be used or pronounced in liturgical celebrations, songs and prayers, Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, has said in a letter addressed to the bishops' conferences of the world.

The letter concerns the use of the "Tetragrammaton," the name which uses the four Hebrew letters YHWH. In English the name is pronounced "Yahweh."

Cardinal Arinze's letter teaches that the Tetragrammaton is to be translated as the equivalent of the Hebrew title "Adonai" or the Greek title "Kyrios." He lists as examples five acceptable translations of the title in five European languages: Lord, Signore, Seigneur, Herr, and Señor.

Regarding translations in the liturgical context, the letter instructs, "Adonai" is to be translated in English as "Lord" and the Tetragrammaton YHWH is to be translated as "God."

"The words of sacred Scripture contained in the Old and New Testament express truth which transcends the limits imposed by time and place," the letter explains. "They are the word of God expressed in human words, and by means of these words of life, the Holy Spirit introduces the faithful to knowledge of the truth whole and entire, and thus the word of Christ comes to dwell in the faithful in all its richness."

Cardinal Arinze, citing the instruction Liturgiam Authenticam, explains that translators must use the "greatest faithfulness and respect" regarding the name of God.

He describes the YHWH as "an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God," which he says "was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: Adonai, which means Lord."

This translation tradition has importance for understanding Christ, the cardinal explains, since the title "Lord" in fact "becomes interchangeable between the God of Israel and the Messiah of the Christian faith."

Cardinal Arinze particularly cites St. Paul 's writings in the Letter to the Philippians, in which he wrote: "God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name"¦ every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."

Bishop Arthur Serratelli, chairman of the U.S. bishops' Committee on Divine Worship, said in a note to U.S. Bishops that the instructions do not force any changes to "official liturgical texts" but might result in "some impact on the use of particular pieces of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration of the Mass and the other sacraments."

To fulfill the directive, songs with phrases such as "Yahweh, I know you are near" will need to be modified. (CNA)

Tuesday, August 12, 2008
Rome: Ixnay on the "Yahweh"
Last Friday, the US bishops received their second summer communique from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, this one dated 29 June.

Bottom line: the Tetragrammaton -- the Hebrew notation for the name of God -- is now forbidden to be "used or pronounced" in worship.

From CNS:

Bishop Arthur J. Serratelli of Paterson , N.J. , chairman of the U.S. bishops' Committee on Divine Worship, announced the new Vatican "directives on the use of 'the name of God' in the sacred liturgy" in an Aug. 8 letter to his fellow bishops.

He said the directives would not "force any changes to official liturgical texts" or to the bishops' current missal translation project but would likely have "some impact on the use of particular pieces of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration of the Mass and the other sacraments."

John Limb, publisher of OCP in Portland , Ore. , said the most popular hymn in the OCP repertoire that would be affected was Dan Schutte's "You Are Near," which begins, "Yahweh, I know you are near."

He estimated that only "a handful" of other OCP hymns use the word "Yahweh," although a search of the OCP Web site turned up about a dozen examples of songs that included the word.

OCP is a nonprofit publisher of liturgical music and worship resources.

Limb said the company would be contacting composers to "ask them to try to come up with alternate language" for their hymns. But he said hymnals for 2009 had already been printed, so the affected hymns would not include the new wording for at least another year.

Even when the new hymnals are out, "it may take time for people to get used to singing something different," he added in an Aug. 11 telephone interview with Catholic News Service.

At Chicago-based GIA Publications, another major Catholic publisher of hymnals, no major revisions will be necessary, because of the company's longtime editorial policy against use of the word "Yahweh."...

Bishop Serratelli said the Vatican decision also would provide "an opportunity to offer catechesis for the faithful as an encouragement to show reverence for the name of God in daily life, emphasizing the power of language as an act of devotion and worship."

His letter to bishops came with a two-page letter from the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, dated June 29 and addressed to episcopal conferences around the world.

"By directive of the Holy Father, in accord with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, this congregation ... deems it convenient to communicate to the bishops' conferences ... as regards the translation and the pronunciation, in a liturgical setting, of the divine name signified in the sacred Tetragrammaton," said the letter signed by Cardinal Francis Arinze and Archbishop Malcolm Ranjith, congregation prefect and secretary, respectively.

The Tetragrammaton is YHWH, the four consonants of the ancient Hebrew name for God.

"As an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God, it was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: 'Adonai,' which means 'Lord,'" the Vatican letter said. Similarly, Greek translations of the Bible used the word "Kyrios" and Latin scholars translated it to "Dominus"; both also mean Lord.

"Avoiding pronouncing the Tetragrammaton of the name of God on the part of the church has therefore its own grounds," the letter said. "Apart from a motive of a purely philological order, there is also that of remaining faithful to the church's tradition, from the beginning, that the sacred Tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated."

The two Vatican officials noted that "Liturgiam Authenticam," the congregation's 2001 document on liturgical translations, stated that "the name of almighty God expressed by the Hebrew Tetragrammaton and rendered in Latin by the word 'Dominus,' is to be rendered into any given vernacular by a word equivalent in meaning.

...but, thanks be to G-d, at least we still got this:

Vatican Says Yahweh Not to Be Pronounced

Calls on Practice Used by 1st Christians

WASHINGTON, D.C., AUG. 19, 2008 (Zenit.org).- A note from the Vatican has reiterated a directive that the name of God revealed in the tetragrammaton YHWH is not to be pronounced in Catholic liturgy.

Bishop Arthur Serratelli, chairman of the U.S. bishops' Committee on Divine Worship, in a note informing prelates of the Vatican directive, said the indications "do not force any changes to official liturgical texts," but might cause "some impact on the use of particular pieces of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration of the Mass and the other sacraments."

Commonly used songs with phrases such as "Yahweh, I know you are near," will need to be modified.

The June 29 Vatican message, from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, clarified that the name of God revealed in YHWH was not pronounced by the first Christians, following the tradition already in use.

It explained: "The venerable biblical tradition of sacred Scripture, known as the Old Testament, displays a series of divine appellations, among which is the sacred name of God revealed in a tetragrammaton YHWH -- hwhw. As an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God, it was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: 'Adonai,' which means 'Lord.'

"The Greek translation of the Old Testament, the so called Septuagint, dating back to the last centuries prior to the Christian era, had regularly rendered the Hebrew tetragrammaton with the Greek word Kyrios, which means 'Lord.' Since the text of the Septuagint constituted the Bible of the first generation of Greek speaking Christians, in which language all the books of the New Testament were also written, these Christians, too, from the beginning never pronounced the divine tetragrammaton."

Theology

The Vatican goes on to note that this practice had "important implications" for New Testament Christology.

"When in fact, St. Paul, with regard to the crucifixion, writes that 'God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name" (Phil 2:9), he does not mean any other name than 'Lord,' for he continues by saying, 'and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord' (Phil 2:11; cf. Isaiah 42:8: 'I am the Lord; that is my name')," the Vatican note explained.

"The attribution of this title to the risen Christ corresponds exactly to the proclamation of his divinity," it continued. "The title in fact becomes interchangeable between the God of Israel and the Messiah of the Christian faith, even though it is not in fact one of the titles used for the Messiah of Israel ."

"Avoiding pronouncing the tetragrammaton of the name of God on the part of the Church has therefore its own grounds," the Vatican concluded. "Apart from a motive of a purely philogical order, there is also that of remaining faithful to the Church's tradition, from the beginning, that the sacred tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context, nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated."

DO NOT BE SURPRIZED AT THE ANNOUNCMENT, THIS HAS HAPPENED MANY TIMES BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do we have "the LORD" in our Scriptures (Bibles) rather than YHWH?

This is a very common question. It can all be traced to a Jewish tradition called the "Ineffable Name" doctrine.

(Ineffable meaning "unspeakable, too great for words.)

Jewish tradition, for fear that YHWH's Name be blasphemed, started to substitute His Name with the Hebrew title"Adonai" when reading the Scriptures. Adonai is the Hebrew word for "lord" or "master". You can verify this information in many various encyclopedias and Bible dictionaries such as the Britannica which states:"Yahweh the God of the Israelites, His Name being revealed to Moses as four Hebrew consonants (YHWH) called the tetragrammaton. After the Exile (6th century BC), and especially from the 3rd century BC on, Jews ceased to use the Name Yahuweh for two reasons. As Judaism became a universal religion through its proselytizing in the Greco-Roman world, the more common noun Elohim whis is plural for Eloah which means Rulers and or Messengers tended to replace Yahweh to demonstrate the universal sovereignty of Israel 's god over all others. At the same time, the divineName was increasingly regarded as too sacred to be uttered; it was thus replaced vocally in the synagogue ritual bythe Hebrew word Adonai ("My Lord"), which was translated as Kyrios ("Lord") in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament."

By the 4th century CE, this doctrine, "Ineffable Name", had become recognized as established Church Doctrine as welland the practice of calling our Creator "the Lord" continues even to this day. Therefore the translators (whenever theysee YHWH in the text) substitute His true Name with "the LORD" or "the Lord". More information on this can be found in the prefaces or introductions of many translations of most modern bibles.

The "Ineffable Name Doctrine" widely believed by Christians

The "Ineffable Name" doctrine appears in Christianity as early as the 150 CE in the works of Justin Martyr, a Samaritanconvert to Christianity. Justin made a special point about his many discussions with the Jews, discussions which apparently greatly influenced his own thinking in regard to the use of the name YHWH:

Who Started This Confusion?

"And all the Jews even now teach that the nameless God spoke to Moses. "
(Justin's "First Apology", chap. 63) Justin also voices these opinions:

"For God cannot be called by any proper name" (Justin's "Hortatory Address to the Greeks", chap. 21)

"For no one can utter the name of the ineffable God; and if any one dare to say that there is a name, he raves with a hopeless madness." (Justin's "First Apology", chap. 61)

Question, did YHWH Himself rave with hopeless madness when He said "This is my Name for ever, and this is My remembrance unto all generations." in Shemoth (Exodus) 3:15? This were among many doctrines creeping into Christianity during that era. We should return to the doctrine found in the Scriptures, to call upon His Name, YHWH.

The official stand of the Roman Church after the time of Constantine (324-337 CE), who for all intents and purposes established his form of Christianity as the official religion of the Roman empire, is best illustrated by the texts composed by Origen (mid-third Century CE) and Jerome (mid-fifth century CE). In Origen "Hexapla"

(edition of the Old Testament in Hebrew and Greek), the Greek versions produced by Aquila, Symmachus, and the Septuagint (LXX) (Old Testament translation in Greek) all represented the Aramaic view of the four Hebrew letters for YHWH with four Greek letters that looked similar to the Hebrew. Later copies of the Septuagint used the generic Greek term "kyrios" (lord) for His name.

Jerome, a 4th century CE "Church Father" who authored the Latin Vulgate version (which was translated directly from the Hebrew and which became the authorized Latin version used by the Roman Catholic church), substituted the Name of our Father in Heaven throughout with the Latin word "Dominus" ("Lord"). All official Greek and Latin texts of scriptures developed after Jerome's time followed his lead and few have thought to question it since.

Let us hope and pray that the next step is that these people and organizations do not allow us to even say, sing or pray using the term, "HalleluYAH" anymore which means Praise YAH or as used in some denominations today, Praise God. But as we all know some human institutions are trying to eliminate this title (God) for our Father in Heaven as well.

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Tehillim (Psalms) 68:4

Sing to Elohim, sing praises to His Name. Raise up a highway for Him Who rides through the deserts, By His Name Yah, And exult before Him.

King James Version / Tehillim (Psalms) 68:4

Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

Note: The letter "J" was not introduced into the English language until the 14th century and not fully adopted into the English language until the 16th century.

Will it possibly get to the point that we may be persecuted for using the real Name?

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Mattithyahu (Matthew) 24:9

"Then they shall deliver you up to affliction and kill you, and you shall be hated by all nations for My Name's sake.

King James Version / Mattithyahu (Matthew) 24:9

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Is this why so many people have trouble accepting the true Son as their personal Savior?

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Yohanan (John) 5:43

"I have come in My Father's Name and you do not receive Me, if another comes in his own name, him you Would receive.

King James Version / Yohanan (John) 5:43

I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Most folks are not aware that the Messiah's true Name was never "Jesus" and that the name "Jesus" is actually an invention of man. In the King James Version of the scriptures, we find an interesting problem in its translation:

Acts 7:45(KJV)

45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

The Scriptures 1998 Version

45which our fathers, having received it in turn, also brought with Yehoshua into the land possessed by the gentiles, whom Elohim drove out before the face of our fathers until the days of David,

Isn't this scripture referring to Joshua (Yehoshua), son of Nun rather than the Savior? Yes. Here is another instance... Again compare the translations!

IBRIM (Hebrews) 4:7-8 (KJV)

Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

The Scriptures 1998 Version

7He again defines a certain day, "Today," saying through David so much later, as it has been said, "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts." 8For if Yehoshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day

after that.

Again, the context reveals that this scripture is referring to Joshua (Yehoshua), the son of Nun and not the Messiah. All other translations put "Joshua" here. Why then is it translated 'Jesus'? The answer lies in the Greek/Latin corruption of the Messiah's original Hebrew name. Originally, the name of the Messiah was , pronounced Yahushua. This is the Messiah's original name. When the Gentiles tried to transliterate His name into Greek, they came up with ihsoun or "Iesous". But originally, this word was from #3091 in the Hebrew which is . When Iesous was transliterated into Latin, it became "Iesus", which was then carried over into English it became our modern day "Jesus" when the letter "J" developed.

YAHUSHUA actually means in English YAHUWEH is Salvation. (YAH = YHWH and SHUA = Salvation)

Scripture once again provides the truth that He indeed came in is His Father's Name and we till this day are not receiving Him, and that others that have come in their own names and we have received them instead.

Is there any reference in the Scriptures that state there is only one Name you can be saved under?

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Acts 4:12

"And there is no deliverance in anyone else, for there is no other Name under the heaven given among men by which we need to be saved."

King James Version / Acts 4:12

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

YAH is the Heavenly majestic family Name of salvation and humankind constantly attempts to wipe it off the map including even the titles we even create for our Father in Heaven and His Son.

So there indeed is a battle raging and starting once again and if you do not believe this please read 1 Kings Chapter 18 specifically verse 21 and we will all see once again that the more that things change the more they stay the same.

So in Summary and as a Case in Point!

Would you personally let someone or an institution in your house and tell your children that from now on they are not allowed to call you dad or daddy which is your title as an earthly father to your children?
And then to make matters worse, this same person and or institution tell and demand from your children that we are now not going to allow them meaning your very children they are not to use, say or write your real name anymore as well? This means your first and last name will be eliminated from the memory of your children?
Would you be upset just with the elimination and demand that your children could not call you dad anymore or worse yet, your entire name to be blotted out, would you allow this to happen?

Obviously our Father in Heaven is truly merciful and patient with us!

HalleluYAH! Praise YAH!

Is this why he commanded us in the third command not to fool around with his real Name?

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Shemoth (Exodus) 20:7

"You do not bring the Name of Yahuweh your Elohim to naught, for Yahuweh does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught.

King James Version / Exodus 20:7

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

What does it mean to take His true Name to naught and or in vain?

vain

having no real value : IDLE, WORTHLESS
marked by futility or ineffectualness : UNSUCCESSFUL, USELESS
archaic : FOOLISH, SILLY
naught

NOTHINGNESS, NONEXISTENCE

ZERO
By calling our Father in Heaven by incorrect Names let alone attempting to eliminate it do we in fact make his name idle, worthless, unsuccessful, useless, foolish, silly, nothingness, nonexistent while ultimately making the importance of His Name valued at a numerical value of zero?

Is this why our Savior had to teach us how to pray and notice the firSt and foremost teaching in this prayer?

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Mattithyahu (Matthew) 6: 9

"This, then, is the way you should pray: "˜Our Father who is in the heavens, let Your Name be set-apart,

King James Version / Mattithyahu (Matthew) 6:9 to 15

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Everyone knows that hallowed actually means "set apart".

So lets pray together that this nonsense of removing the titles and the actual true Names stops before it is to late and as Ben Stein shared with us, "How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'"

(LET ALONE THE REAL NAME OF YHWH Elohim AND HIS SON)

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Mattithyahu (Matthew) 18:20

"For where two or three are gathered together in My Name, there I am in their midst."

King James Version / Mattithyahu (Matthew) 18:20

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Did our Father in Heaven let alone His Son know that this would all come about?

King James Version / Mishle (Proverbs) 30:4

Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Mishle (Proverbs) 30:4

Who has gone up to the heavens and come down? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name, And what is His Son's Name, If you know it?

The Name of YHWH is a strong tower; The righteous run into it and are safe.

Recently there was an excellent e-mail that we received from others on Ben Stein and his confession that he shared (article attached to e-mail) with CBS Sun. Morning titled, "I can only hope we find God again before it is too late!!

Here is an excerpt of that article.

"Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'"

Does it seem that there is a human systematic approach to remove the Father in Heaven and His only begotten Son and their Names / Titles from every thing we call dear in our lives?
Everyone knows that the name and or title humankind has given our Father in Heaven has been God and or the Lord and as the Ben Stein article mentioned above that we are allowing even this man made name and or title (God / Lord) "to be removed from our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives."
If this isn't bad enough it just got worse.
Other people and institutions are now attempting to eliminate His real Name as well.
What does Scripture say about this; let us use two different translations to find out?
The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Shemoth (Exodus) 3:15
And Elohim said further to Mosheh, "Thus you are to say to the children of Yisra'el, "˜YHWH Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Yitshaq, and the Elohim of Ya'aqob, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations.'
The true Name of the Father YAHUWEH (YHWH) actually means, "He will cause to become" and this is why we recognize Him as our very Creator.
The title ELOHIM is and its other uses are as follows;

o El, Eloah, Elohim, Elahin, Elyon:

o El: Mighty One, Strength

o Eloah: Singular form of Elohim, has same meaning as El.

o Elohim: Plural of Eloah, Rulers, Messengers.

o Elyon, El Elyon: The Most High El.

o The word "El" is a very ancient Semitic term. Among Semitic languages it is one of the most used terms for greatness, strength or deity. In Hebrew religious usage it does not denote a proper name but is used as a title.

King James Version / Exodus 3:15
And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Are we as a society suicidal when we allow others to strive and work so hard to eliminate the title and name we have given to our Father in Heaven let alone now the announcement of eliminating His real NAME out of worship services?

Please read the following six recent web based news articles of this next age old evolutionary ELIMINATION PROCESS used many times before of people and institutions that are systemically eliminating our Father in Heaven and His only begotten Son from everything in this world we hold dear and replacing it with age old traditions.

Vatican: Don't Use "YHWH" in Catholic Worship
The Vatican says

Catholics should not use the divine name in Catholic worship.

The Hebrew word yhwh, probably pronounced Yahweh, is God's revealed name. For most of their history, Jews refused to pronounce the name, which is why scholars are not 100% sure which vowels should even be used when pronouncing the name, because early Hebrew texts lack vowels and the exact pronunciation was lost. Over the years, Jews and Christians alike have used the word "Lord" as a euphemism for the divine name. Lord in Hebrew is adonai, in Greek, kurios, and in Latin, dominus.

I have never been comfortable pronouncing the divine name in liturgical settings. First, most of the songs that use the divine name are 70sish songs that aren't exactly my style. Second, Jewish concerns aside, we Christians have a long tradition of using the euphemism "Lord" in place of the divine name. I guess I don't fully understand why there was an emphasis on using the divine name in the 1960s and 1970s (perhaps the influential Jerusalem Bible, which uses the divine name in the Old Testament, is one reason). In our modern culture where "words are just words," this might not make sense, but there is a long history of reverance associated with the name of God.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vatican bans use of "˜YHWH'
Thursday, 4th September 2008. 1:37pm

By: Roberto Sanchez Guevara.

"The Hebrew name for God is not to be used or pronounced in liturgical celebrations, songs and prayers," said a letter addressed to the bishops' conferences of the world from Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

The letter concerns the use of the "Tetragrammaton," the name which uses the four Hebrew letters YHWH. In English the name is pronounced "Yahweh." "The words of sacred Scripture contained in the Old and New Testament express truth which transcends the limits imposed by time and place," the letter explains. "They are the word of God expressed in human words, and by means of these words of life, the Holy Spirit introduces the faithful to knowledge of the truth whole and entire, and thus the word of Christ comes to dwell in the faithful in all its richness."

The Cardinal's letter teaches that, as an example, there are five acceptable translations of the title in five European languages: Lord, Signore, Seigneur, Herr, and Señor. He describes the term YHWH as "an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God," which he says "was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: Adonai, which means Lord."

Cardinal Arinze, citing the instruction Liturgiam Authenticam, explains that translators must use the "greatest faithfulness and respect" regarding the name of God.

This translation tradition has importance for understanding Christ, the Cardinal explains, since the title "Lord" in fact "becomes interchangeable between the God of Israel and the Messiah of the Christian faith." Cardinal Arinze particularly cites St Paul 's writings: "God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name"¦ every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Bishop Arthur Serratelli, chairman of the US bishops' Committee on Divine Worship, said that the orders might result in "some impact on the use of particular pieces of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration of the Mass and the other sacraments."

Contact our Europe Desk

Yahweh' not to be used in liturgy, songs and prayers, Cardinal

Arinze says Vatican City, Sep 3, 2008 / 05:30 am (CNA)

The Hebrew name for God is not to be used or pronounced in liturgical celebrations, songs and prayers, Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, has said in a letter addressed to the bishops' conferences of the world.

The letter concerns the use of the "Tetragrammaton," the name which uses the four Hebrew letters YHWH. In English the name is pronounced "Yahweh."

Cardinal Arinze's letter teaches that the Tetragrammaton is to be translated as the equivalent of the Hebrew title "Adonai" or the Greek title "Kyrios." He lists as examples five acceptable translations of the title in five European languages: Lord, Signore, Seigneur, Herr, and Señor.

Regarding translations in the liturgical context, the letter instructs, "Adonai" is to be translated in English as "Lord" and the Tetragrammaton YHWH is to be translated as "God."

"The words of sacred Scripture contained in the Old and New Testament express truth which transcends the limits imposed by time and place," the letter explains. "They are the word of God expressed in human words, and by means of these words of life, the Holy Spirit introduces the faithful to knowledge of the truth whole and entire, and thus the word of Christ comes to dwell in the faithful in all its richness."

Cardinal Arinze, citing the instruction Liturgiam Authenticam, explains that translators must use the "greatest faithfulness and respect" regarding the name of God.

He describes the YHWH as "an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God," which he says "was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: Adonai, which means Lord."

This translation tradition has importance for understanding Christ, the cardinal explains, since the title "Lord" in fact "becomes interchangeable between the God of Israel and the Messiah of the Christian faith."

Cardinal Arinze particularly cites St. Paul 's writings in the Letter to the Philippians, in which he wrote: "God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name"¦ every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."

Bishop Arthur Serratelli, chairman of the U.S. bishops' Committee on Divine Worship, said in a note to U.S. Bishops that the instructions do not force any changes to "official liturgical texts" but might result in "some impact on the use of particular pieces of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration of the Mass and the other sacraments."

To fulfill the directive, songs with phrases such as "Yahweh, I know you are near" will need to be modified.

CBCP News
"˜Yahweh' not to be used in liturgy, songs and prayers, Cardinal Arinze says
VATICAN, Sept. 3, 2008

The Hebrew name for God is not to be used or pronounced in liturgical celebrations, songs and prayers, Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, has said in a letter addressed to the bishops' conferences of the world.

The letter concerns the use of the "Tetragrammaton," the name which uses the four Hebrew letters YHWH. In English the name is pronounced "Yahweh."

Cardinal Arinze's letter teaches that the Tetragrammaton is to be translated as the equivalent of the Hebrew title "Adonai" or the Greek title "Kyrios." He lists as examples five acceptable translations of the title in five European languages: Lord, Signore, Seigneur, Herr, and Señor.

Regarding translations in the liturgical context, the letter instructs, "Adonai" is to be translated in English as "Lord" and the Tetragrammaton YHWH is to be translated as "God."

"The words of sacred Scripture contained in the Old and New Testament express truth which transcends the limits imposed by time and place," the letter explains. "They are the word of God expressed in human words, and by means of these words of life, the Holy Spirit introduces the faithful to knowledge of the truth whole and entire, and thus the word of Christ comes to dwell in the faithful in all its richness."

Cardinal Arinze, citing the instruction Liturgiam Authenticam, explains that translators must use the "greatest faithfulness and respect" regarding the name of God.

He describes the YHWH as "an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God," which he says "was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: Adonai, which means Lord."

This translation tradition has importance for understanding Christ, the cardinal explains, since the title "Lord" in fact "becomes interchangeable between the God of Israel and the Messiah of the Christian faith."

Cardinal Arinze particularly cites St. Paul 's writings in the Letter to the Philippians, in which he wrote: "God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name"¦ every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."

Bishop Arthur Serratelli, chairman of the U.S. bishops' Committee on Divine Worship, said in a note to U.S. Bishops that the instructions do not force any changes to "official liturgical texts" but might result in "some impact on the use of particular pieces of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration of the Mass and the other sacraments."

To fulfill the directive, songs with phrases such as "Yahweh, I know you are near" will need to be modified. (CNA)

Tuesday, August 12, 2008
Rome: Ixnay on the "Yahweh"
Last Friday, the US bishops received their second summer communique from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, this one dated 29 June.

Bottom line: the Tetragrammaton -- the Hebrew notation for the name of God -- is now forbidden to be "used or pronounced" in worship.

From CNS:

Bishop Arthur J. Serratelli of Paterson , N.J. , chairman of the U.S. bishops' Committee on Divine Worship, announced the new Vatican "directives on the use of 'the name of God' in the sacred liturgy" in an Aug. 8 letter to his fellow bishops.

He said the directives would not "force any changes to official liturgical texts" or to the bishops' current missal translation project but would likely have "some impact on the use of particular pieces of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration of the Mass and the other sacraments."

John Limb, publisher of OCP in Portland , Ore. , said the most popular hymn in the OCP repertoire that would be affected was Dan Schutte's "You Are Near," which begins, "Yahweh, I know you are near."

He estimated that only "a handful" of other OCP hymns use the word "Yahweh," although a search of the OCP Web site turned up about a dozen examples of songs that included the word.

OCP is a nonprofit publisher of liturgical music and worship resources.

Limb said the company would be contacting composers to "ask them to try to come up with alternate language" for their hymns. But he said hymnals for 2009 had already been printed, so the affected hymns would not include the new wording for at least another year.

Even when the new hymnals are out, "it may take time for people to get used to singing something different," he added in an Aug. 11 telephone interview with Catholic News Service.

At Chicago-based GIA Publications, another major Catholic publisher of hymnals, no major revisions will be necessary, because of the company's longtime editorial policy against use of the word "Yahweh."...

Bishop Serratelli said the Vatican decision also would provide "an opportunity to offer catechesis for the faithful as an encouragement to show reverence for the name of God in daily life, emphasizing the power of language as an act of devotion and worship."

His letter to bishops came with a two-page letter from the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, dated June 29 and addressed to episcopal conferences around the world.

"By directive of the Holy Father, in accord with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, this congregation ... deems it convenient to communicate to the bishops' conferences ... as regards the translation and the pronunciation, in a liturgical setting, of the divine name signified in the sacred Tetragrammaton," said the letter signed by Cardinal Francis Arinze and Archbishop Malcolm Ranjith, congregation prefect and secretary, respectively.

The Tetragrammaton is YHWH, the four consonants of the ancient Hebrew name for God.

"As an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God, it was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: 'Adonai,' which means 'Lord,'" the Vatican letter said. Similarly, Greek translations of the Bible used the word "Kyrios" and Latin scholars translated it to "Dominus"; both also mean Lord.

"Avoiding pronouncing the Tetragrammaton of the name of God on the part of the church has therefore its own grounds," the letter said. "Apart from a motive of a purely philological order, there is also that of remaining faithful to the church's tradition, from the beginning, that the sacred Tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated."

The two Vatican officials noted that "Liturgiam Authenticam," the congregation's 2001 document on liturgical translations, stated that "the name of almighty God expressed by the Hebrew Tetragrammaton and rendered in Latin by the word 'Dominus,' is to be rendered into any given vernacular by a word equivalent in meaning.

...but, thanks be to G-d, at least we still got this:

Vatican Says Yahweh Not to Be Pronounced

Calls on Practice Used by 1st Christians

WASHINGTON, D.C., AUG. 19, 2008 (Zenit.org).- A note from the Vatican has reiterated a directive that the name of God revealed in the tetragrammaton YHWH is not to be pronounced in Catholic liturgy.

Bishop Arthur Serratelli, chairman of the U.S. bishops' Committee on Divine Worship, in a note informing prelates of the Vatican directive, said the indications "do not force any changes to official liturgical texts," but might cause "some impact on the use of particular pieces of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration of the Mass and the other sacraments."

Commonly used songs with phrases such as "Yahweh, I know you are near," will need to be modified.

The June 29 Vatican message, from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, clarified that the name of God revealed in YHWH was not pronounced by the first Christians, following the tradition already in use.

It explained: "The venerable biblical tradition of sacred Scripture, known as the Old Testament, displays a series of divine appellations, among which is the sacred name of God revealed in a tetragrammaton YHWH -- hwhw. As an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God, it was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: 'Adonai,' which means 'Lord.'

"The Greek translation of the Old Testament, the so called Septuagint, dating back to the last centuries prior to the Christian era, had regularly rendered the Hebrew tetragrammaton with the Greek word Kyrios, which means 'Lord.' Since the text of the Septuagint constituted the Bible of the first generation of Greek speaking Christians, in which language all the books of the New Testament were also written, these Christians, too, from the beginning never pronounced the divine tetragrammaton."

Theology

The Vatican goes on to note that this practice had "important implications" for New Testament Christology.

"When in fact, St. Paul, with regard to the crucifixion, writes that 'God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name" (Phil 2:9), he does not mean any other name than 'Lord,' for he continues by saying, 'and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord' (Phil 2:11; cf. Isaiah 42:8: 'I am the Lord; that is my name')," the Vatican note explained.

"The attribution of this title to the risen Christ corresponds exactly to the proclamation of his divinity," it continued. "The title in fact becomes interchangeable between the God of Israel and the Messiah of the Christian faith, even though it is not in fact one of the titles used for the Messiah of Israel ."

"Avoiding pronouncing the tetragrammaton of the name of God on the part of the Church has therefore its own grounds," the Vatican concluded. "Apart from a motive of a purely philogical order, there is also that of remaining faithful to the Church's tradition, from the beginning, that the sacred tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context, nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated."

DO NOT BE SURPRIZED AT THE ANNOUNCMENT, THIS HAS HAPPENED MANY TIMES BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do we have "the LORD" in our Scriptures (Bibles) rather than YHWH?

This is a very common question. It can all be traced to a Jewish tradition called the "Ineffable Name" doctrine.

(Ineffable meaning "unspeakable, too great for words.)

Jewish tradition, for fear that YHWH's Name be blasphemed, started to substitute His Name with the Hebrew title"Adonai" when reading the Scriptures. Adonai is the Hebrew word for "lord" or "master". You can verify this information in many various encyclopedias and Bible dictionaries such as the Britannica which states:"Yahweh the God of the Israelites, His Name being revealed to Moses as four Hebrew consonants (YHWH) called the tetragrammaton. After the Exile (6th century BC), and especially from the 3rd century BC on, Jews ceased to use the Name Yahuweh for two reasons. As Judaism became a universal religion through its proselytizing in the Greco-Roman world, the more common noun Elohim whis is plural for Eloah which means Rulers and or Messengers tended to replace Yahweh to demonstrate the universal sovereignty of Israel 's god over all others. At the same time, the divineName was increasingly regarded as too sacred to be uttered; it was thus replaced vocally in the synagogue ritual bythe Hebrew word Adonai ("My Lord"), which was translated as Kyrios ("Lord") in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament."

By the 4th century CE, this doctrine, "Ineffable Name", had become recognized as established Church Doctrine as welland the practice of calling our Creator "the Lord" continues even to this day. Therefore the translators (whenever theysee YHWH in the text) substitute His true Name with "the LORD" or "the Lord". More information on this can be found in the prefaces or introductions of many translations of most modern bibles.

The "Ineffable Name Doctrine" widely believed by Christians

The "Ineffable Name" doctrine appears in Christianity as early as the 150 CE in the works of Justin Martyr, a Samaritanconvert to Christianity. Justin made a special point about his many discussions with the Jews, discussions which apparently greatly influenced his own thinking in regard to the use of the name YHWH:

Who Started This Confusion?

"And all the Jews even now teach that the nameless God spoke to Moses. "
(Justin's "First Apology", chap. 63) Justin also voices these opinions:

"For God cannot be called by any proper name" (Justin's "Hortatory Address to the Greeks", chap. 21)

"For no one can utter the name of the ineffable God; and if any one dare to say that there is a name, he raves with a hopeless madness." (Justin's "First Apology", chap. 61)

Question, did YHWH Himself rave with hopeless madness when He said "This is my Name for ever, and this is My remembrance unto all generations." in Shemoth (Exodus) 3:15? This were among many doctrines creeping into Christianity during that era. We should return to the doctrine found in the Scriptures, to call upon His Name, YHWH.

The official stand of the Roman Church after the time of Constantine (324-337 CE), who for all intents and purposes established his form of Christianity as the official religion of the Roman empire, is best illustrated by the texts composed by Origen (mid-third Century CE) and Jerome (mid-fifth century CE). In Origen "Hexapla"

(edition of the Old Testament in Hebrew and Greek), the Greek versions produced by Aquila, Symmachus, and the Septuagint (LXX) (Old Testament translation in Greek) all represented the Aramaic view of the four Hebrew letters for YHWH with four Greek letters that looked similar to the Hebrew. Later copies of the Septuagint used the generic Greek term "kyrios" (lord) for His name.

Jerome, a 4th century CE "Church Father" who authored the Latin Vulgate version (which was translated directly from the Hebrew and which became the authorized Latin version used by the Roman Catholic church), substituted the Name of our Father in Heaven throughout with the Latin word "Dominus" ("Lord"). All official Greek and Latin texts of scriptures developed after Jerome's time followed his lead and few have thought to question it since.

Let us hope and pray that the next step is that these people and organizations do not allow us to even say, sing or pray using the term, "HalleluYAH" anymore which means Praise YAH or as used in some denominations today, Praise God. But as we all know some human institutions are trying to eliminate this title (God) for our Father in Heaven as well.

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Tehillim (Psalms) 68:4

Sing to Elohim, sing praises to His Name. Raise up a highway for Him Who rides through the deserts, By His Name Yah, And exult before Him.

King James Version / Tehillim (Psalms) 68:4

Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

Note: The letter "J" was not introduced into the English language until the 14th century and not fully adopted into the English language until the 16th century.

Will it possibly get to the point that we may be persecuted for using the real Name?

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Mattithyahu (Matthew) 24:9

"Then they shall deliver you up to affliction and kill you, and you shall be hated by all nations for My Name's sake.

King James Version / Mattithyahu (Matthew) 24:9

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Is this why so many people have trouble accepting the true Son as their personal Savior?

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Yohanan (John) 5:43

"I have come in My Father's Name and you do not receive Me, if another comes in his own name, him you Would receive.

King James Version / Yohanan (John) 5:43

I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Most folks are not aware that the Messiah's true Name was never "Jesus" and that the name "Jesus" is actually an invention of man. In the King James Version of the scriptures, we find an interesting problem in its translation:

Acts 7:45(KJV)

45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

The Scriptures 1998 Version

45which our fathers, having received it in turn, also brought with Yehoshua into the land possessed by the gentiles, whom Elohim drove out before the face of our fathers until the days of David,

Isn't this scripture referring to Joshua (Yehoshua), son of Nun rather than the Savior? Yes. Here is another instance... Again compare the translations!

IBRIM (Hebrews) 4:7-8 (KJV)

Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

The Scriptures 1998 Version

7He again defines a certain day, "Today," saying through David so much later, as it has been said, "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts." 8For if Yehoshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day

after that.

Again, the context reveals that this scripture is referring to Joshua (Yehoshua), the son of Nun and not the Messiah. All other translations put "Joshua" here. Why then is it translated 'Jesus'? The answer lies in the Greek/Latin corruption of the Messiah's original Hebrew name. Originally, the name of the Messiah was , pronounced Yahushua. This is the Messiah's original name. When the Gentiles tried to transliterate His name into Greek, they came up with ihsoun or "Iesous". But originally, this word was from #3091 in the Hebrew which is . When Iesous was transliterated into Latin, it became "Iesus", which was then carried over into English it became our modern day "Jesus" when the letter "J" developed.

YAHUSHUA actually means in English YAHUWEH is Salvation. (YAH = YHWH and SHUA = Salvation)

Scripture once again provides the truth that He indeed came in is His Father's Name and we till this day are not receiving Him, and that others that have come in their own names and we have received them instead.

Is there any reference in the Scriptures that state there is only one Name you can be saved under?

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Acts 4:12

"And there is no deliverance in anyone else, for there is no other Name under the heaven given among men by which we need to be saved."

King James Version / Acts 4:12

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

YAH is the Heavenly majestic family Name of salvation and humankind constantly attempts to wipe it off the map including even the titles we even create for our Father in Heaven and His Son.

So there indeed is a battle raging and starting once again and if you do not believe this please read 1 Kings Chapter 18 specifically verse 21 and we will all see once again that the more that things change the more they stay the same.

So in Summary and as a Case in Point!

Would you personally let someone or an institution in your house and tell your children that from now on they are not allowed to call you dad or daddy which is your title as an earthly father to your children?
And then to make matters worse, this same person and or institution tell and demand from your children that we are now not going to allow them meaning your very children they are not to use, say or write your real name anymore as well? This means your first and last name will be eliminated from the memory of your children?
Would you be upset just with the elimination and demand that your children could not call you dad anymore or worse yet, your entire name to be blotted out, would you allow this to happen?

Obviously our Father in Heaven is truly merciful and patient with us!

HalleluYAH! Praise YAH!

Is this why he commanded us in the third command not to fool around with his real Name?

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Shemoth (Exodus) 20:7

"You do not bring the Name of Yahuweh your Elohim to naught, for Yahuweh does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught.

King James Version / Exodus 20:7

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

What does it mean to take His true Name to naught and or in vain?

vain

having no real value : IDLE, WORTHLESS
marked by futility or ineffectualness : UNSUCCESSFUL, USELESS
archaic : FOOLISH, SILLY
naught

NOTHINGNESS, NONEXISTENCE

ZERO
By calling our Father in Heaven by incorrect Names let alone attempting to eliminate it do we in fact make his name idle, worthless, unsuccessful, useless, foolish, silly, nothingness, nonexistent while ultimately making the importance of His Name valued at a numerical value of zero?

Is this why our Savior had to teach us how to pray and notice the firSt and foremost teaching in this prayer?

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Mattithyahu (Matthew) 6: 9

"This, then, is the way you should pray: "˜Our Father who is in the heavens, let Your Name be set-apart,

King James Version / Mattithyahu (Matthew) 6:9 to 15

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Everyone knows that hallowed actually means "set apart".

So lets pray together that this nonsense of removing the titles and the actual true Names stops before it is to late and as Ben Stein shared with us, "How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'"

(LET ALONE THE REAL NAME OF YHWH Elohim AND HIS SON)

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Mattithyahu (Matthew) 18:20

"For where two or three are gathered together in My Name, there I am in their midst."

King James Version / Mattithyahu (Matthew) 18:20

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Did our Father in Heaven let alone His Son know that this would all come about?

King James Version / Mishle (Proverbs) 30:4

Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

The Scriptures, 1998 Version / Mishle (Proverbs) 30:4

Who has gone up to the heavens and come down? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name, And what is His Son's Name, If you know it?

The Name of YHWH is a strong tower; The righteous run into it and are safe.

hey mc, please stop spamming the boards with this 'ben stein said' thing, okay??

good grief. posting it once is MORE than enough, especially when it comes to anything ben stein did or didn't say....

I am very upset by the fact that other cultures see the Christmas holiday as an infringement of their religeous rights, but, there is nothing brought up about the symbols they show as a representation of their holidays and observances. For example~ I had a teacher, in highschool, who was Hindu. Every year, around spring, he would put up strings of colored outdoor lights on his house and around his property, to celebrate a Hindu observance. I am not sure what holiday it was, but they enjoyed it. No one in the community had any problem with this, as a matter of fact, a lot would stop at his home and ask questions aboout this. His family would show their faith by doing this, so what is wrong with people who want to observe Christmas, doing so the same way we have for years and years? It offends me that there is a minority of people who have nothing better to do with their lives than say that the symbols of a particular observance offend them and they should be re-named, or even more, done away with all together. No matter what faith you are, I will always do my best to honor it on your behalf. I will wish a Jew 'Happy Hannukah' out of respect, and in turn I will expect the same done for me. We will always have a 'Christmas tree' in my home and on my lawn, I will wish 'Merry Christmas' when I want to, and that is the way it will always be for me.

I'm really getting sick of OUR religious celebration being seen as offensive. I do not understand how "Merry Christmas", a Christmas tree, a Nativity scene and other very important aspects of this Celebration seem to be offensive towards people of other religions, or no religion at all.

It's not suppose to be some flashy commercial holiday, and it bothers me that that is what it has been built up to. If these people want to sugar coat our holiday, they can go somewhere else. And if they want to snarl at the greeting of "Merry Christmas" they can go somewhere else. They can especially go somewhere else if they're looking for a "Holiday tree' or an "x-mas tree' because I assure you that there aren't any here.

Christmas is a long time celebrated tradition. Why should any of our traditions change because "others" are offended? What is offensive about Christmas? It means love, family and the spirit of giving to loved ones and the to less fortunate. If you celebrate your own holidays differently, then mind your own business. Stop trying to change what doesn't affect you.