Not crazy about this one! Why ask for objection? Why not ask a more creative, or humerous question that wil make people think? Bethan

Of course I am opposed, but who am I am? I will be labeled ''homophobic''. It''s taboo to speak against this topic. We will only know what are the effects of this movent after this generation moves on. I just read where they have allowed a ''gay parade'' in the Holy City of Isreal. Jeresulm.

Aren't we being a tad hypocritical here. During the public hearings, the United Church made several presentations in favour of same sex marriage. This ad makes me uncomfortable, not because of its subtle in your face statement; but I have to ask is there another message in choosing an interracial couple?

Why this one? I read about your ad campaign in the Globe and Mail today and I think it is not such a bad idea. But I think the reason for all of this to make the United Church of Canada more attractive. I myself have no religion and when I saw this add I know and I feel assured that all my concerns about religion and churches in general are true. You want to appear in a different light to people like myself (I fall into the age group that you are concerned about)? Well let me tell you this. By picking on gay people and other minorities you have just further validated my concerns and as a mother I would greatly hesitiate to let my children go to church if these are the views that are being shared.

Come up with something new and better to really show you want to be different.

I have no problem with same sex marriage. What you do in your own home, and who you love is your own business. The affairs of the heart are not ment to be understood by those who are not involved. I am straight, so as long as homosexuality and information about it isn't pushed on me I'm more than willing to let it slide. Forcing people to accept you and what you're about isn't the way to go about things, it's a great way to get yourself shunned, or worse possibly dead.

I OBJECT.

I would like the ask the United Church a question and I sincerely hope I receive an answer. So any pastor that has an answer for me would be thoroughly appreciated. I understand that this question has probably been raised numerous times but clearly for good cause.

How can you give God's blessing to something He has stated is a sin? The bible clearly states in numerous passages that homosexuality is a sin and yet what do we see from the United Church? They are blessing it, and what's worse they are giving God's blessing to something he despises.

God says murder is wrong. Excuse me United Church of Canada, I want to murder someone may I have your blessing? O o what's this murder isn't socially acceptable so I'm not getting a blessing ok.

God clearly states how opposed He is to same sex marriages but we see that a so called Christian church is blessing something that our Heavenly Father has spoken against. Perhaps because this liberal society says it's ok.

I don't understand this. I really don't.

"O we want to accept all, we love all and we won't turn any one away just because of their sexual orientation"

Hey United Church of Canada, what ever happened to love the sinner hate the sin?

Within the past year I watched a W-5 episode where a convicted pedophile was given a 30 minute time slot to share his views about how he was born a pedophile and that he could not change who he was. He went on to say that he should have the right to have sex with "consenting" children and claimed that there were children who were willing participants. I am in NO WAY suggesting that homosexuals are pedophiles but what I am saying is where do we draw the line? I have lived in Ottawa and Vancouver and am survivor of pretty severe sexual abuse. I have had many friends and although I have not supported their life choices I have treated them with compassion and continue to pray for them in the same way I would anyone having sex outside marriage (as defined by God's Word). There is NOT ONE gay or lesbian I have spoken with who wasn't sexually abused as a child. Some of the people I spoke with who initially denied that they had been some years later did recall childhood trauma as this is how the brain works, slowly revealing the past. I am a flawed imperfect human being and I am sinner, I pray every day but I have been saved by God's grace for he loved the world so much hat he sent his only begotten son not to condemn the world but to save it. To my gay / lesbian brothers and sisters out there this will not be an easy pill to swallow; we are at war right now with the evil one. He tries to trick each of us and tempt us as he rules this world. He attacked me throughout my life starting with sexual abuse as followed by drug and alcohol abuse, biker involvement, you name it and he tried to lie to me and convince me that God could never forgive or love a wretch like me BUT God does love me and he loves you. He in fact loves you so much that all he asks is for you to out aside your arrogance and rpide and accept that Jesus is the truth, the life and the way. I stayed away from Christ most of my life because I did not trust the Bible nd viewed it as a fabrication made my human beings rather than the God breathed living Word and I have witnessed miracles with my own eyes. Do you know that Christianity, Judaism and Islam all have the same beginning? Have you put aside your fear and really honesty attempted to read God's Word? I pray for any gay or lesbian person who reads this, that they may find peace through Christ Jesus.

Can i ask you a question in regards to that Ad? Is the animal kingdom smarter than us? Then why are there are no same sex animals together trying to pro-create together?
It's unnatural to be with the same sex! Or how is it that we can't put a house together a bolt and a bolt fixed together...Look around! creation even screams what is natural ...And God is that creator...I am sure He is very disappointed..However if you are willing to admit that you have those wrong desires and allow God to change you...I believe He can and will. That is what the church needs to preach and show to people struggling in the world. That God is loving but He is not willing to allow people to think that being gay is okay...cause it just isn't ...like the other guy said...Hate the sin ...but love the sinner!

Josaphat,
THe Bible NEVER discusses homosexuality as we use the term. SExual orientation as a concept was unknown until 150 years ago or so. All the Bible talks about is behaviour--which is why many churches feel they can allow homosexually oriented individuals full participation in church life as long as they remain celibate. But one of the Pauline passages talks about doing what is unnatural. Given modern understandings of sexual orientation it is unnatural to expect someone with a same-sex orientation to be interested int he opposite sex.

Also, the Bible is absolutely silent on lesbianism--all the activity that is condenmed is male sex acts (likely because the writers of the texts could not concieve of women as beings with sexual desires and.or the autonomy to act on them).

BUt even so, taken as a whole Scripture has relatively little to say on sex--especially when compared to things like poverty and social justice. WHy is it that our world fixates on sex (and its supposed sinfulness--more a result of Augustine IMHO) than why thousands of Canadian children don't get enough to eat every day?

I am against gay marriage for the following reasons. Christ came to call sinners to repentence. Jesus Christ our Lord is one with the Father, if His Father has forbidden I would think He would uphold His Father's will.

It's interesting to see people using a biblical passage to condemn. The Book of Leviticus also condemns those who eat pork. Does this mean that all Pork Chop Eaters are sinful.

Chiao

Thank you Gordo for raising the real issues!

It is seriously a crying shame that all the people who believe in a God can't work together to benefit those who will die without help.

the key is that Christ came to call sinners to repentence. If you deny Him, He will also deny you before the Father in heaven.

Its amazing the amount of illiteracy that people have about both the bible and about God

I support same-sex marriages and have in the past applauded the United Church for welcoming gays and lesbians to be a part of their congregation as well as become Ministers. I am not sure the purpose of this ad since in Canada same-sex marriage is legal, and from what I understand a large number of United Churches are affirming churches. I hope the United Church continues to move forward in this direction. The church I want to associate with must be accepting of all people. Who are we to judge who can come to church, or whom God loves?

Good Grief! Would you dream of posting such an ad with two black people saying "Does anyone object". I thought the United Church was progressive. That is sort of thing you would expect from some sicko bigoted offshoot of the KKK.

GORDO!
I think you ACTAULLY need read the Bible. there is a ton of scripture on this in both the Old and New Testament. It drives me nuts when people claim that they are familiar with God's Word and have only skimmed it. Your ignorance is transparent.

I think it is funny, in a sad way, how we have become so conditioned by our surroundings; accepting things because everyone else does. I guess Nature Vrs. Nurture is still the 'Chicken or the Egg' question of the day and time. Hmmmm just a thought but are we not supposed to "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." (Colossians 2:8)

Wow, going for extra controversy with the gay couple being interracial as well. Trying for two birds with one stone?

Homosexuals belong in church. So do fornicators, and adulterers, and liars, and idoloters; sinners belong in Church. The catch is that they need to recognise that their sin is sin. We don't want to push people away, just because they are sinful. Who then could come in? But you believe in Jesus, believe that his death paid the penalty of your sin, repent and turn away from the sin, and by the grace of God, you can. Justification is instant, sanctification takes time.

Which is why is does not help for the church to officiate homosexual weddings. How can you unite two people before God, when God's word says that homosexuality is sinful?

But of course there is no more problem with a person who has repented from homosexuality becoming a church leader, than there is of a repented gang member/ murderer doing so. If God forgives the sin, so should we.

But let's call a spade a spade, shall we?

Now, I'm not terribly well-informed on this debate. Can someone cite any non-Levitical references against homosexuality, that weren't also linked to cultural practices of the day? Remember that when you cite Levitical law, it means you must accept ALL the laws, not just ones supporting your view.
Additionally, it makes practical sense for God to order His people to not practice homosexuality because: No men having sex means more men having sex with women=more kids. At this point in history the jewish nation was small & fragile, and needed all the babies they could manage. It would also keep the level of disease down, and serve to reinforce they're cultural identity at a time when having homosexual sex was, in many cultures of that time, a sign of power over men. So there is less chance of simply being absorbed into another culture this way.
Just my $.02

In the begging of time god made man and women to be together not man and man or women and women

also in sadam and garomora god had sent down fire and brimestone because they were gay and stuff

like it was in the beggin shall it be in the end

GAY MARRIAGE IS WRONG
and if your a christian and your gay something is wrong
god made men to be with women and if your a christian and you can't understand that then i suggest you go talk to god because its a sin

you can label me homphobic what ever but i go by religon and you should tooo

God objects!!! Any church that teaches or supports gay marriages will stand accountable before God. Church of God rise up and take your place. Stand for righteousness!!!!

GORDO, GORDO GORDO....... here are some scriptures for you.

Leviticus 18:22 22 "Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.

Genesis 19:4 & 5 But before they retired for the night, all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded the house. 5 They shouted to Lot, "Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!" (God destroyed the city)
verse 24 Then the Lord rained down fire and burning sulfur from the sky on Sodom and Gomorrah. 25 He utterly destroyed them, along with the other cities and villages of the plain, wiping out all the people and every bit of vegetation.

Romans 1: 26 - 28 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

28 Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done.

I will end that Jesus blood covers all our sins.....God hates sin but loves the sinner.

Here again is the United Church providing a voice for homophobia, and disguising it as dialogue. While I understand many United Church Ministers will marry Gay and Lesbians, it would be more helpful if they had more congregations that welcomed gay men and lesbians as members.

In all of Ottawa only one United Church welcomes Gay men and Lesbians. I believe in Montreal that no United Church welcomes gays and lesbians. I believe the situation is the same or worse accross the country.

Add to this the large number of United Churches that do not to accomadate people with disabilties. (the Building that houses the church is more important then people with physical and other challenges)

I would love to go to church again, and I miss it. But becaase of what I learned in a United Church Sunday School ( That God Loves Everyone) I would feel embarrassed to belong to any community that exclude peoples. Which every United Church in Ottawa does. The one church that welcomes gays and lesbians, meets in a building that is not assciable to those using wheelchairs and others.( Althrough they might be moving into an accessible Anglican Church next year)

PANTS MCFIST

Romans 1:26-28 as stated earlier in reply

The old testiment does refer to law however the new testament was only for Jews but for every nation. In 1 Corinthians written to the greeks it has scripture specific to a man and his wife along with those unmarried along with Ephesians. No where does it give heed and rules to gay relationships.

1 Cor 7: 1 Now regarding the questions you asked in your letter. Yes, it is good to live a celibate life.[a] 2 But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband.
3 The husband should fulfill his wife's sexual needs, and the wife should fulfill her husband's needs. 4 The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband gives authority over his body to his wife.

5 Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to prayer. Afterward, you should come together again so that Satan won't be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 But I wish everyone were single, just as I am. But God gives to some the gift of marriage, and to others the gift of singleness.

Ephesians 5:21-33
21 And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
22 For wives, this means submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of his body, the church. 24 As the church submits to Christ, so you wives should submit to your husbands in everything.

25 For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her 26 to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God's word.[a] 27 He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church without a spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault. 28 In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man who loves his wife actually shows love for himself. 29 No one hates his own body but feeds and cares for it, just as Christ cares for the church. 30 And we are members of his body.

31 As the Scriptures say, "A man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one."[b] 32 This is a great mystery, but it is an illustration of the way Christ and the church are one. 33 So again I say, each man must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Alex, I don't know what you're talking about. I lived from Ottawa for 18 years and, through my involvement with Ottawa Presbytery, was involved with many, many churches during that time. I found them all extremely welcoming to gays and lesbians. I admit that I wasn't specifically checking them out for physical accessibility so I can't speak to that (although I do remember several of them being wheelchair accessible).
On another note:
I find these ads troubling, and the content of this forum demonstrates why. I agree with the church reps who spoke to the Globe - there are certainly people in their 30's who are barely aware of the UCC's existence. Many of those people share the UCC's zeal for social justice and equality, and it ould be great if we could, through ads, let them know that there's a church out there for them. However, I think most of these people have a "church=conservative" stereotype in their minds, so seeing an ad that, for instance, raises the issue of objection to same sex marriage, will lead them to assume that the church's position is the conservative one -- e.g. that the ad is a rallying cry for opponents of same-sex marriage, or that we think Bobblehead Jesus owners are headed straight to hell. Only those who bother to come to the website despite their misgivings will find out otherwise -- and maybe even those people won't, since when they get here they'll find themselves surrounded by social conservatives attracted by the ads, whose diatribes will look like they're normal in the Church and will turn off the very people we're trying to attract. I hope I'm wrong.

What I want to know is not what everyone else thinks, but what the church's stated belief is on the topic. you join a church because your beliefs are in line with the church's stance on issues like these, right? so why is the church asking ME what I think? If they want me in the seats, tell me what they see as the truth, what they see as the proof, and THEN I'll argue my PoV. Don't ask for opinions without giving your own, guys. The ads are putting the shoe on the wrong foot.

I agree with those who appeal to the Word of God set out in our scriptures and specificallly with Iamchristian's comments. I suggest that we should all begin by reading Leviticus 20 and 22 which refer clearly to a man lieing with a man as one lies with a woman as being detestable, among a list of other sexual immoralities which we still generally consider to be inappropriate. This list defines, in my mind, what was/is considered to be sexual immorality.
It is important to see these admonitions in context - that is, they represent the conditions under which the people of God must live according to his laws and decrees and turning away from the practices of other peoples (those in Egypt and Canaan are referenced) if they were to be set apart as holy.
Unlike other decrees in Leviticus whic h were specifically released by the New Covenant -- such as those concerning foods (see 1 Corinthians 10:25), issues of sexual immorality were specifically reinforced (see 1 Corinthians 6:9 and on, for example, and other references in Ephesians, Colossians, Romans, etc.).
The issue for me is not whether these activities or conditions are appropriate or accepted in society ("the World") and within our secular legal regimes as clearly many of them are, but whether the Christian Church, as the institutional guardian of God's Word (scripture) in the world should declare them to be holy or sanctified according to the will of God. The church does and should accept /welcome many people of God who are not entirely "holy" or without sin, and it has an important function in ministering to us. However, we should not expect that any and all "legal" practices and "rights" should be considered holy and hence blessed sacramentally.

The church did not declare heterosexual marriage to be a sacrament until 1215 CE., one of the Vatican Library's earliest Greek liturgical documents is a marriage ceremony for two persons of the same gender.

The document dates to the fourth century, if not earlier. In other words, nine centuries before heterosexual marriage was declared a sacrament, the church liturgically celebrated same-sex marriage. excerpt from God made me gay, read the letter.

The issue is of love if two people love each other no matter whether same sex opposite sex. The issue is the right to love controlled by the church or the person. I believe its the person.

I like the campaign and its bluntness. I congradulate the people involved. Ignorance need to be pushed off the cliff. Let people live as they choose the church needs to evolve and this is a step forward.

Dear AmyP
Those churches that you say welcome gays men and lesbians, don`t. Most voted to exclude us as members in 1988, and only one (First United) has voted to accept us since then. Many ministers and indivdual members are accepting, but no other United Church has made a formal declaration to accept us as full members. There is also a process that a church can go through to be designated as welcoming, and as far as I am aware every church but First United has refused to do so, or have put it on hold permenantly.

One member at Glebe told me their church welcomed gays and lesbians, but they did not want too many people to find out in case they ended up with too many gays. How welcoming is that?

The homophobia in the liberal United Churches is much more evident then in others. This is because unlike more conservative churches, liberal UCCs has no theological reason to oppose gays and lesbians.

In the United Church of Christ (USA) over %10 of their churches are welcoming. Since the United Church of Canada started its program of Affirming Ministries, 15 years ago, less then %1 of their churches have done so.

If you had heard all the hatred and bigotry I heard in the church during the eighties when I was a member and then after having church after church vote to exclude us a full members. I am aghast that a church member could wonder why gays , lesbians, and their friends feel alienated from church.

You should all spend some time in the Book of Revelation. This open, everything goes Church idea is predicted and the way things are going today with this everything goes mentality is that we are definitely in the END TIMES. Just wait for it. Any Church that accepts gay practices and is in favour of gay marriage is not a Church of God. The Bible is very clear. Does this mean that we are to ahte gays NO WAY, we need to pray for them just like we do all the other sinners which includes you and I.

I object to how ugly the cake is, but other than that...... the point is not to say that we are inclusive or not (which we both are and aren't). The point is to give all of youa safe place to talk about all this stuff.

I think there are some serious cultural differences between those who would use scripture to condemn the 'sin of homosexuality' (not something I agree with, just quoting others). Part of the problem here is that we have different ways of using God's Word, and have different styles of bible study and interpretation. Some churches think that the World Council of Churches and ecumenism are devil-generated signs of the presence of the Anti-Christ. I happen to believe that working towards Christian unity is a good thing.

Instead of bashing each other over the head and getting into the "I'm right, you're wrong" debate - why don't you start asking each other questions about why you do or don't believe homosexuality is a sin?

Why don't we ask questions like "Why does the United Church affirm same gender marriage, but not all congregations affirm that decision, will perform those marriages, or welcome GBLT people as members to their pews?" It's when we get into that type of dialogue that we can start to use this site for what it was designed for.

Peace.

IAMCHRISTIAN.....

There is plenty of theological scholarship which interprets the Book of Revelation completely differently to that.

I would highly suggest Catherine Keller's "Apocalypse Now and Then", Harry O. Maier's "Apocalypse Recalled," or "From Every People and Nation: The Book of Revelation in Intercultural Perspective" edited by David Rhoads for several different perspectives.

I also believe that Elizabeth Shussler Fiorenze and Adela Yarbro Collins have written some good content.

You may also want to check out "Queering Christ: Beyond Jesus Acted Up" by Robert E. Goss.

It breaks my heart to hear some people interpreting this ad as being anti-gay and especially anti-racially-mixed couple. I think that the question was not saying 'do you object? Because we think you should'. I truly believe that the ad was meant to ask a REAL question, not one with a predetermined answer; was meant to spark discussion regarding people's views on the subject of same-sex marriage. In all my dealings with the United Church, which have been vast and in a variety of situations, same-sex marriage has never been condemned, and even the thought of objecting to a racially mixed-couple would absolutely horrify any of the United Church people I know. I really hope that others aren't insulted by this ad, because I am sure that the intention was not to hurt, the problem was asking a question that has ambiguous meaning.

I agree with Carper ... the cake is pretty ugly. Maybe that's just 'cuz I'm a gay guy and you know how stereotypes work ... all we look at is fashion.

I know that "Testimony" is a horrific word in the UCC, but I think that sometimes it just needs to be done!

I think that what this ad is saying, not to promote either homophobia nor homosexuality, is that there are people within the UCC whom would be willing to enter in to a good discussion regarding the issue. I do not think that what people will see here is a "good discussion" ... I think they will see it full of anger and frustration - on both sides.

When The Very Rev. Peter Short was elected Moderator in 2003, there was a motion before the GC to encourage the Federal Government to include Same-Sex Marriage in the Marriage Legislation. He said, "I know that there are many people for this motion. I also know that a percentage of our denomination is against this motion and some would call that homophobia. That is name-calling and that is not what we are about in the United Church."

I think that I agree with Peter. I think that there needs to be an option to agree to disagree, but to recognize that the United Church MAJORITY agrees with something.

I also think that part of the issue needs to be that a willingness to enter into a discussion that is life-giving and love-affirming is what the United Church is about - not full of name calling, anger and hatred.

But then again - maybe it's just 'cuz I'm a gay man who is entering into Ministry. But, as a gay man, I want to Testify (there it is again - did you feel that shiver?) that I still hold my brothers and sisters in Christ that are against gay marriage (and homosexuality itself) in love. Because they, too, are children of God.

Many gay people within the Church that I know and that I am friends with would say the same thing. They accept and affirm their brothers and sisters who deny and who dislike them, because we are all God's children.

May it be so. Blessings

First of all, for reasons which should be obvious there's no such thing as "gay" marriage. The term is same-sex marriage.

Second, to the poster who thought s/he was being clever by claiming that "there are no same sex animals together trying to pro-create together," same-sex sexual activity and even matings for life are common among animals.

Third, you people have spent 10 MILLION dollars on this ad campaign. 10 million dollars can buy an awful lot of hot meals, warm clothes, educations, dry places to sleep... What a shameful, hypocritical, purposeless waste of money. And to make things worse, the reaction of people on the street (as just demonstrated on TV) has been overwhelmingly negative: this ad campaign isn't going to bring more people into church. To do that you'd have to somehow make the church relevant to people's lives, which for better or worse it no longer is.

Blah....

We were on TV? Sweet! When? Where?

Quote""I OBJECT.

I would like the ask the United Church a question and I sincerely hope I receive an answer. So any pastor that has an answer for me would be thoroughly appreciated. I understand that this question has probably been raised numerous times but clearly for good cause.

How can you give God's blessing to something He has stated is a sin? The bible clearly states in numerous passages that homosexuality is a sin and yet what do we see from the United Church? They are blessing it, and what's worse they are giving God's blessing to something he despises.

God says murder is wrong. Excuse me United Church of Canada, I want to murder someone may I have your blessing? O o what's this murder isn't socially acceptable so I'm not getting a blessing ok.

God clearly states how opposed He is to same sex marriages but we see that a so called Christian church is blessing something that our Heavenly Father has spoken against. Perhaps because this liberal society says it's ok.

I don't understand this. I really don't. Quote"

EXCELLENT well made point! I TO OBJECT!
You have made a common sense objection to what seems to be the political rule in a self made religion!

"O we want to accept all, we love all and we won't turn any one away just because of their sexual orientation"

Hey United Church of Canada, what ever happened to love the sinner hate the sin?

jrselah

"Can i ask you a question in regards to that Ad? Is the animal kingdom smarter than us? Then why are there are no same sex animals together trying to pro-create together?"

Actually if you do a little bit of research there are "same-sex" partnerships in the animal kingdom, Penguins, monkies, and numerous other animals have been documented to have same sex partnerships in order to take care of babies, and for protection and love.

I find it sort of disgusting that you are comparing gay people to animals, but it had to be pointed out that if you do a little bit more research even ANIMALS have a fluid definition of partnership.

"Current understanding is that many species believed monogamous have now been proven to be promiscuous or opportunistic in nature, a wide range of species appear to both masturbate and to use objects as tools to help them do so, in many species animals try to give and get sexual stimulation with others where procreation is not the aim, and homosexual behavior has now been documented in over 450 species." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexuality

Any one who has read "the Book" knows that these things have to happen in order for Jesus's return. It is a little sad that the desired belifes proposed here will win based on popularity and not upon truth, an almost bulling of the mases. I do object and I am sad to be apart of this legacy left by this generation. Not just on this topic but on more of an attitude that has emmerged. We have chosen the filtering of issues through relativism than upon concrete biblical truth. We have faith in God but not His words. I believe in cars just not the brakes.

I think that this ad is extremely thought provoking on many levels. This is obviously an issue that evokes an emotional response as opposed to a rational one. It is an issue that will continue to do so long beyond our own generation.

The choice made to portray not only two men but also an interracial couple is clever. It reminds me of our society's history of protesting against interracial marriages, which were illegal for thousands of years, and thought of as "unnatural" until very recent history. As a society we moved beyond this narrow interpretation of love, and saw that two people of two different races should be allowed to marry and live together without evoking controversy. The juxtaposition of these two societal controversies reminds me that humanity will always continue to change and within this process, there will always exist those who will fight against it and those who will understand that not all "˜traditions' are worth protecting.

I am not a religious person per say, but I do have a ton of religious instruction, and I have read the entire Bible more than once. The book (especially the Old Testament) has many condemnations that are not relevant, practiced or taught in today's society (or even in the church) some examples:

The bible's view of women:
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

My point is that society changes and evolves and as it does, we hope that we learn to become more accepting of individuals and their choices. I challenge everyone here to live by what I thought was the most important message of Christianity and many religions, which is to let God make the rules. Shouldn't we all focus on living our own best lives, absent of judgment towards each other?

Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you
(Matthew 7:12)

First, let me be clear. I do not, will not ever accept the concept of, idea of or definition of gay marriage. It demeans my marriage of 25 years and any church that attempts to place gay marriage on the same level as my marriage which is a holy union ordained by God alone is clearly out to lunch and in direct conflict with God. If two people of the same sex wish to live together in sex (which biblically is stated by God as an abomination) then go ahead. It's not up to me to tell anyone how they should live, although I am entitled to an opinion, just don't try and force me to accept gay marriage as having the same holy blessing as my marriage given by God. The United Church is clearly attempting to be all things to all people under the guise of being in step biblically, but remember this, if you stand for all things, then you stand for nothing. I believe Jesus said, render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's and unto God the things that are God's. The United Church and any other church that is falling to political pressure should bear this truth in mind. We do have religious freedom in this country as well as freedom of speech. If the secular world wants to call me homophobic because I am against homosexuality, then so be it, but I do have the right to an opinion and I do have the right to express it, even by secular standards and no amount of political pressure can or will ever make me think otherwise because God's words have more truth and subtance than man's words could ever have.

I would like to know where in the Four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Lukc or John, does Jesus condemn homosexuality? If anyone is able to pinpoint the Gospel scriptures and verses, please let me know. I believe from my reading, Jesus says very little or nothing at all, except to love our neighbor as ourselves.

Regarding the other scriptures...Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 19, cf. Judges 19-21) has nothing to do with same sex. Rather, it is about infringing ancient Near Eastern hospitality codes, and about gang rape as a violent expression of male dominance. In both stories, women are offered to men, "to do with as they please." The woman are offered as subsititutes for male vistors that townsmen want to violate. In the story from Judges, the 2 women are gangraped and murdered. The sin of Sodom refers to arrogrance, adultery, lies, insincere religious practices, political corruption, oppression of the poor, neglect of orphans and widows, and inhospitality.

Leviticus 18:22, 20:13 states, "if a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination." The second reference, "they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them." These acts were considered an abomination (which literally means a practice which prohibits one from entering the precinct of the Jewish temple) for several reasons. Women were considered non-persons.

1 Corinthians 6:9 - Paul's list of "wrongdoers" includes male prositutes. The Greek word, which is translated "Sodomites" or "homosexuals" in some versions of the Bible, refers to adolescent boys who sold sexual favours to older men in Greek towns such as Corinth.

Romans 1:26-27 - Paul's statments made reference to women exchanging natural intercourse with unnatural, it contiunes to condemn men who "giving up natural intercourse with women were consumed with passion for one another." Pauls uses these statements ina debate about ritual requirements of Jewish laws regarding diet and male circumcision. These verses, uses to judge and condemn homosexuality, were used rather by Paul to denounce judgemental and self-righteous behaviour. Paul's point is "there is no one who is righteous, not even one (Romans 3:9)

So, when it comes to judging others, for whatever reason, in this case homosexuality, there is only one true judge...the God who loves all of humankind, and includes all people for who they are.

Blessings!

(Information came from a number of resources, including the book "Of Love and Justice")

I'm sad to see that there is still so much hatred in some people's religion. I'm also sad that with all the misery and suffering in this world, some people are so concerned about stopping gay marriage instead of dealing with more meaningful issues. I'm a married heterosexual and I couldn't care less if gay people get married or not. When the world is over, if God wants to judge it, God will judge it. Why do some of us feel so sure that God has appointed us to do the judging? And why, honestly, do some people feel so threatened by gay marriage?

Here we go again! I do not understand why the church cannot stick to Bible teachings and insists on doing whatever is popular. It clearly states in the Bible that marriage is a union between a man and a woman and that anything else is wrong. Yet some churches have decided to exclude this part of the Bible and actually ordain gay people. I am not saying homosexuality is any worse a sin than any other, but just as we should not condone adultery or stealing, we should not condone homsexuality either. IT'S IN THE BIBLE! I think we all need to take more time to read it.

I am so proud of my local congregation. It has its flaws, of course, as it is made up of flawed individuals (like all groups of people), but it is striving to practise welcoming to all, and has just voted to become an Affirming congregation. That means we officially and publicly welcome all people regardless of race, cread, sexual orientation, etc. (And we do have it handicapped accessible!) Thus we follow Jesus who told us "Judge not lest you be judged" and "He who is among you cast the first stone" among other quotes. I eat seafood, wear polyester blends, don't hide in a tent 5 days out of 30, and actually have been known to not wear a hat in church (can't forget that little comment of Paul's on women's vanity). Not to mention his attitude on women speaking out on theology would remove many entries from this current debate on both sides of the issue. 100 years ago, the bible would have been used to condemn my beautiful daughter to death ("thou shalt not suffer a witch to live") as she is left-handed, which was considered a sure sign of being a witch (as well as being red-headed, btw). Interesting too, that approximately 10% of the population is left-handed, and also approximately 10% also are GLTB. Wouldn't it be terrible if we are condemning human beings because their DNA is different than ours? Who makes DNA? The couples that I know who are gay are often more loving towards each other than a lot of heterosexual couples I know. Which is worse, a loving and monogamous relationship between 2 caring people or a marrage involving spouse abuse, child abuse, etc.? Marrage for the sake of avoiding 'burning in lust' has led to an aweful lot of evil. IMHO

Hey Dobby - I don't think they are "picking" on anyone. They are just trying to say that they are open to all kinds of different points of view. I don't think there's anything wrong with that - in fact I think it is great! Too many religious organizations tell you what to think. The United Church/WonderCafe ads get YOU thinking. What a nice chnage - they aren't trying to preach.

Very enlightened ads if you ask me!

Having perused the comments above, I think it is important for me to say (as I think the nae's are over represented above) that I do NOT object.

In my view, scriptures that are quoted to say that same sex relationships are a sin, are: brief, vague and not well understood. One might look at similar passages to find authority that women should be quiet and wear hats and that certain foods should not be eaten. There are numerous other rules that we could take from the Bible as well. How many people opposed to same sex marriages, eat a kosher diet or insist that women refrain from any type of leadership?

If refraining from same sex love was important to God, He would have compelled one of this Biblical authors to address it expressly. He has not -- ergo it is not important to Him. In my view, Christians should continue to discern what God wants, and the driving principle of our discernment should be the express directions to LOVE your NEIGHBOUR and to INCLUDE the EXCLUDED.

The negativity and viciousness of some of these postings is exactly why people have turned away from any organized religion and why so many different churches have developed over the years. Christianity teaches about love and respect. It is unfortunate that so many so-called Christians seem to forget this basis of their faith.
Kudos to the United Church for showing how hypocritical some people can be.

While there is only one UCC in Ottawa officially designated an Affirming Congregation, that doesn't mean the others don't accept members of the GBLT community as members - I know dozens of openly gay UCC members (and, for that matter, almost as many GLBorT UCC reverends). You're right, Alex, that there was a lot of homophobia in the church back in the 1980s (although the church was pretty progressive for the times), but in my experience most of it is long-gone.
The fact that a particular congregation has failed to make a formal statement saying that it accepts gay members (or members with any other background) doesn't necessarily means it excludes such people. That's like saying that gay people are barred from stores that don't display a rainbow sticker on the door. Obviously that's not the case -- it's possible that the owners of a non-sticker-bearing store are bigots, but they could be totally just, welcoming people. In the UCC, my experience tends towards the latter.
This is the church that in 1984 passed a resolution saying "We AFFIRM that members of the church, individually and corporately, are responsible for becoming more aware of discrimination against homosexual persons, taking action to ensure that they enjoy their full civil and human rights in society, working to end all forms of discrimination against them, and for personally supporting the victims of such discrimination." That's just part of the 1984 declaration, which also included several references to gay members of the UCC.
If you wish that more congregations would release official public statements saying that they welcome gay members, that's one thing, but I wish you would not make public statements that baldly imply that most UCC congregations don't allow gay members.

Why don't we just allow people to marry themselves?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/gayrights/story/0,,1483059,00.html

Let's go one step further: Why not allow polygamy and legalize it and bless it? Why not include bisexual marriages? How about legalizing bestiality and have a legalized union with pets? Surely these are sexual orientation issues. The government should legalize these too. Where is equality?