Probably :)

But same thing if you opened gmail on your lunch break.

Dang, I had written a long wonderful response to this one, and lost it.

 

Let me try again.

 

You are asking if an admin's company could go looking past what the person had read, i think.

 

So, #1.  an admin would be kicked off the council if they went reading PM's.  That would be a significant violation.   Even if the moderators requested the admins to verify one, it would have to be pretty darn important and  following consensus from the moderators.  No one wants to deal with that kind of privacy infringement.   The admins have discussed this item and are in complete agreement.

 

#2.  A workplace would not have access to what the admin has access to.  Consider my bank account. THey can't go into it either.  There are very clear rules around that and legal items.  So, no, they wouldn't be able to see a PM you send to Gecko.

 

#3. They may be able to see a mail you send to me, but, that would be only after crossing legal, hr and security hoops and only with just cause for looking for it.   They can't just scan for xyz corproation on my private browsing.  

#4.  You are far more risk for a PM you send to someone who accesses the PM from a public wifi spot.

 

Yes. I understand that. That doesn't mean I want somebody from XY Corp. reading about my health issues, relationship problems, who I'm thinking of voting for or where I work or where my relatives live, who we might know in common, or....I can think of times I've PMd my address and phone number. It's just a matter of principle that I feel differently about the UCCan having access to that or some unknown person at XY Corp. I'd prefer if admins did not do forum work from their workplace computers or on their employers time and equipment unless we know the employers won't breach our privacy...but...I can't demand that. At least we know. So that's another choice to think about.

 

Kimmio, I don't know about others, but I don't use my work computer for such things.  That is what my personal machines are for.  

Again, if I opened a PM from you to me, and I was under investigation, then theoretically, they may see the PM.

 

Again, you are more likely at risk at a public wifi

 

But, say, in your worst case scenario,  one of us opened your PM from work, or it got sent to our work email address.  

 

What do you feel is the risk if they see "kimmio" told me email address was "blahblahblah"

 

They have absolutely no itnerest in Kimmio.  

If you said I hate company xyz in a post where you also send your email, again, they wouldn't give a hoot.  It is nothing to them.

 

Kimmio, I am not following that.

 

If you dont' trust an admin, then don't send them that information.  Seriously. 

The person you send the information is the one who gets it, not the admins.

 

 

On the other hand, people are posting stuff all the time on sites about their health issues, their workplace issues, their relationships.  

Every single poster has the same access to read it.

 

Google has searched it, and filed it.

 

Anyone, anywhere, can google and find that information.

 

 

I'm at risk on public wifi that someone could read the limited amount of info in my account, yes. And that's enough because my email's there, I do get spam and wonder how. At work, conceivably as admin, if you use admin rights on work time, that would give your employer access to everything, everyone's accounts and PMs if you were being investigated- right, or not?

Not right.

 

They could NOT go into anything , just like they couldn't go into my bank account.

 

But it's not..."I went to see Dr.Jones at the ABC Medical Centre today and he said I have ___rare disease and I will require__medication for ___times per day at ___dose." Signed Jane Doe. P.S. my phone number is 222-555-5555. Give me a call.

Fine, but, who are you sending that to? They are the ones you need to be concerned about, not the admins.

They are the folks who will read it, may read it from a work computer, or from a public site.

ps, when sending any wondermail or facebook message or email, one should always practice privacy concerns.

 

Like anything, it is the recipient that you have to be worried about.

No? So if you were in someone's account fixing something or you need to go into the database for something, they would not have access to what you have access to?

So, help me to understand what I would be fixing in anyone's account?  Admin's don't touch stuff.  

The most we do is load your account and email address.   That has no visibility to your PM's or your posts for that matter.

 

AGain, the person who you PM has access to more information than does an Admin.

 

 

I find it is very difficult to understand why Kimmio is on the Internet. Her distrust of everything should lead her to write letters and use Canada Post. It would help her sleep at night (maybe).

I don't use work machines for that either. But lots of people do. And many, many people use public wifi at Starbucks all the time.

For me to gain access to your PMs, I have to go into the database proper - that's collections of massive tables, like in Excel, but on steroids. It would be a royal PITA, but if I was sufficiently motivated, I supposed I could do it.

 

I can think of no reason to go into the database to "fix something". None. If the database is broken, that's not how you fix it. I have never, as a forum admin, gone into a database. I know the software to use if I wanted to. I could fudge my way around. I haven't. I don't need to, and I don't care to.

 

My life has not yet sunk to the point that I would enjoy browsing an actual database. Most of it would look like nonsense, which is even less intruigiung than reading entire unformatted posts or PMs in the single cell of a table, which is how they would appear.

 

Yor email address is hidden from the public. Admins can see it. Use a throwaway if you're worried. That email address will not get me into you bank account. I definitely can not reach your bank account information, in any way, unless you literally posted it to the forum, or put it in a PM and made me hunt for it and ruin my day looking.

 

So, don't post your bank account information.

 

Basically, if you don't post it, we can't see it, and neither can anyone else. Period. Full stop.

 

 

Understood Kimmio, so don't send anyone a PM that has confidential information or send a mail that does or post anything.

 

It is the folks you send stuff to that are the concern, as they are the ones that you expect to read it.

Yes. True. It'd be a sad day for you if you found it, I'm afraid. Nevertheless, if someone wanted my last 100 bucks- I kinda need it, so...

I just never know who has access to what how- I just type in the boxes and hit send and off it goes to who knows who where- and not really keen about XY Corp even reading what I had for breakfast if I didn't post it publicly.

I use public wifi. It's free. I'm not wealthy. I take advantage of free stuff but I am aware that it's not the most secure. Not everyday but on my lunch breaks. I don't think I know anyone who uses a smart phone
or iPhone who doesn't use wifi when they're at Starbucks or other restaurants with free wifi. However, good to know XY Corp. does not care if I state that I don't like XY Corp. Just in case an employee of XY Corp is reading it. I'd prefer that XY Corp. doesn't know where I live or who I vote for- then again I don't want Starbucks or anyone in there to know that either.

Haha. No need to be that way CH. these are questions we have a right to know. There's nothing wrong with asking. So it doesn't bother you at all that when you're on the internet all these unknown people have all of your info out there....somewhere? They probably know more details about you than you know about yourself. It bugs me, for sure. I did have my bank account compromised before and they took all I had which wasn't much. I eventually got it back through the bank's policy but in the meantime- no fun at all. I've gotten prank texts on my phone. Spam in my email. I dunno. It's a weird world. I was born in the wrong era.

add: I basically started using email and Internet because I had no choice- that's why- the basics like Word, user friendly programs at work. I needed to know how to make a resume and attach it to email. I've fiddled around with Power Point. The world was going that direction and I had to go along. Or else I'd never get a job. But I don't know the finer details. 10 year olds probably know way more than me. I think it's good to ask. There are good things about it but many unknowns.

Prank texts, spam in your email, is the equivalent of junkmail in your mailbox

 

Did you know that there were reverse lookup phone books for many years.  

 

You may be more aware of some of the access to your info, but, some of it has been around for a long time, just took more work to get to it.

 

 

I do know about reverse look-up. Edit: no I did not know about physical reverse look up phone books- I looked up the prank texts and they were not listed. Usually but not always these things are the equivalent of junk mail to your mailbox. The spam I won't open because it can send viruses that really can mess you up. Straight to trash can.

Hi Kimmio,

 

 

I am thinking no, geographical point of access does not influence rules governing the ownership of the site's content.

 

Content of the site is content of the site period.  Content is governed by the rules and regulations established by the site.

 

Under extreme circumstances various jurisdictions could lay claim to information shared here if a case could be made that it violated the laws of a sovereign state.  That sovereign state would be limited in its recourse unless the servers were actually located within its bounds.

 

I cannot think of anything that might apply save for the disemination of child pornography and to be frank I don't think any of us have any aspirations that Wondercafe2 would participate in that kind of activity.

 

As for the security of the site and the ability of hackers to get back to individual accounts.

 

I'm not a hacker so I wouldn't have a clue how to do that.  That said, folk are pretty lack about passwords.  Rather than having a multitude which are temporary we tend to have one which is permanent (meaning until we feel there has been a privacy breach.)

 

I do not think, for example that a hacker could get into my WC2 account and then my bank account without needing remote access to my personal computer.  Any hacker with that kind of skill realizes I am such a small target that I am not worth the investment.

 

 

There are many different lands and many different laws.  It changes from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

 

For example, Andrew Wakefield (the disgraced doctor who had his license revoked by the British Medical Review board for the fraudulent MMR-Autism study) now resides in, or around the state of Texas.  Wakefield has launched a number of civil lawsuits against various reporters who first broke the story of his fraudulent study to compensate for the damages to his reputation.  He has done this through Texas court rooms because Texas appears to think it has the power to impact upon the lives of individuals in other countries.

 

To date all of Wakefield's attempts at litigation have been as valid as his retracted study.  If, he manages to succeed with one then the only time his adversary would have to worry might be if they every visited the United States of America as Texas would probably issue a warrant for their arrest should they actually not pay the damages awarded by a Texas court.

 

So in theory, if I post enough about Andrew Wakefield being a quack he could go into a Texas courtroom and start litigation against me for defamatory comments made here and seek an award in damages.  I expect that effort would be a successful as previous attempts made to go after others with deeper pockets than myself.

 

WonderCafe.ca could be named in a potential suit as it probably has deeper pockets than I do yet as litigious as the United States might be it still recognizes and dismisses frivolous lawsuits.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

Not exactly true Rev John, re bank accounts. I had mine compromised- don't know exactly how. I usually have next to zilch after expenses, so I think what they do is just go looking for cash grabs/ info grabs from wherever and hope they hit the jackpot.

Hi Kimmio,

 

 

I have also had bank accounts compromised.  The point of access has never been through the internet.

 

The Bank was able to trace the point of compromise to a gas station purchase.  Apparently a card reader took the codes and pins of several people beside myself.  The bank froze my account when I decided to make several successive deposits and withdrawals from various ATMs in the Oakville/Burlington area.

 

The Bank took about two weeks to verify legitimate account activity vs the illegitimate kind.

 

It was the right kind of crime for a small fish like myself.  They make a dummy card that fools the ATM.  They deposit empty envelopes claiming that there was $X deposit and then they immediately withdraw $X in funds.

 

Hit several different ATMs in a span of half an hour and it looks like I have deposited cheques for 7 x $X and withdrew the same.

 

I do bank online but in order for someone to get that information they need access to my computer and I do not know that any amount of info stored here or at WC2 would give them access to my personal computer.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

The same happened to me from one of those stand alone ATMs (i'd recommend not use those slim ones in corner stores), and another time, not too long ago, I was alerted that someone may have tried access my account. I had to call the bank and go through steps to reset my password. So that's a good thing. It's actually been compromised a few times in the past ten years. Once I went to pay for a coffee and my card was declined. All I know was they traced it to overseas.

I don't know how bugs get into the computer- you could click something, or rather how to keep them out- when a virus attacks your system when you click on something containing a virus that can compromise your comptuter. Then there's the heartbleed thing recently. There are ways people can get in. Phones can be hacked. Nothing's really safe or private. Nevertheless, that lack of privacy should be minimized not maximized.

Were your original questions responded to?

Do you have any further questions on those points?

I'm not sure. Sort of. Add: actually no. Noone knows very well. I was wondering if admins being mobile crossing the border changed security, copyright laws, litigation potential, etc. Basically I don't trust much of it obviously. It's hard to trust what you don't know. So, in Canada we have copyright laws, they may be different in the US- if they are subject to change because someone is adminning with their laptop while across the border- I am curious if that could happen. I'd prefer if admins did their work from home like I said but if they're not going to what are the risks? If there are no more than what'd you'd have from home, that'd be good to know too.

I know that everytime we are online that there are a multitude if people handling our data. I just wish I understood it better. And not have to rely on "it's okay. Trust us. We know what's best. Mwaahaaahaa!" from everywhere.

First, help me to understand why your focus on admins.

 

If Carolla crossed the border on the way to the East Cost, or Pilgrim's Progress posts, or any of our US posters post, do you have the same concerns?

 

I'm trying to understand where the root of your concern is?

No. I don't for them. They're accessing their own accounts. Admins have access to everything. You built it. I don't know. If someone talks about pot smoking while an admin's in Singapore, does that change anything?

Per chansen's posts, we are sucha small site and of such low level of coversation / risk that it is highly unlikely anyone would care.  Reddit, Facebook, Youtube, sharing sites, etc, really take litigators priority.

 

We tend to self-modeate pretty good.  Don't recollect anyone putting up pornography here.  If anything, wehn someone crosses a line it often has spawned a copyright discussion which is a good thing in the world, ie expanding peoples knowledge.

 

but, gien you have questions, I am willing to try to answer them,.

Ok, so that is where you are wrong.  Admins do not access everything.

It is the poster of the material who is breaking copyright laws.

 

So, if you post it, then, it matters where you are if you are breaking laws, and to a point, the servers.

 

The admins are not the ones breaking copyrights.

 

If somoene, such as a lawyer, asked for it to be taken down, and the poster did not respond, and moderators and admindid not respond, then you might have an issue.

 

The location of the admin is irrilevent.

 

(you do realize that admins do NOT read everything right?  if anything, I am guessing my participation will decrease inposting and reading, rather than increase.

Quoting the post so it quit changing.

What changed? I clarified my thoughts. Although, I was starting to say Texas but I said Singapore because they have strict laws too- and I was wondering, "Okay, so admin A goes into the site as an admin, while in a Singapore hotel, and is editing posts on a heated very liberal discussion about pot smoking. What happens? I hate it when you do that, too. Are you going to watch over me and do that constantly on the new site if I go. Because as much as you find it a pain I find vigilance over petty stuff a pain- I am not trying to be rude. I really do hate that.

Editing my text because my thoughts get clearer as I'm typing- I remember, sometimes after I have alread hit save- something else comes to mind, or I want to change a word like Singapore- I thought it makes a more emphatic point than Texas because it's further abroad. What's the big deal and why does that make you so mad that you have to nab it and point it out? Like someone else said awhile ago. When you go to the list of threads you can tell if the post is new or just edited because the total number doesn't change (thanks whoever pointed that out).

Some people organize their thoughts in their head first and decide what they want or are trying to say - some people are quick to process their thoughts. I organize them on the page. so what? I'll write something like "I went to Disneyland in 1985 and went on the Matterhorn." wait a minute was it the Matterhorn or that other one. What was that called. Was it in 1984 or 1985?" and I'm editing it again. Or I think- no I don't want to say that. It might tick aomeone off I'd better change it a bit- and within a span of a minute you've nabbed it- why, so you can hold it up and say "Kimmio changes her posts!" big deal! I can think of way bigger deals. Like being mean over something like that. That's a bigger deal. Yesterday, I wrote "L ___mob" a colloquial expression. I asked Aaron to change it because Rev John was offended by it, that's all. And I felt bad that he was offended. I felt bad about how he felt. I wasn't trying to 'scrub my words'. I was sorry that my words offended him. I could see his point. However, it's a common colloquial expression in the oxford dictionary that has an example usage exactly how I intended it. Then someone else took offense to the words "blind consensus" another fairly common phrase, I thought. It simply implies a decision made by "group-think" rather than careful consideration. I had to vent this because I get frustrated also.

I'm maticulous about the kind of thing that doesn't matter to others. They'll leave it up. I'll fix my own error before someone gives me heck about it because I notice it, and my conscience says, "fix that". Or I'll change a detail like was it the Matterhorn or that other ride? I'll even google to find out and then go back and change it...when it matters to noone else. But I am trying to clarify my own thoughts/ memories. I could do that in my own head first- it's the same thing from my point of view- but if my thought processes aren't moving at the tempo you want them to you'll nab them and try to make a deal out of nothing. Or you won't aknowledge that it was my own conscience that wanted to fix my own error.

On one of your   .posts, you came back 4 times that I counted to edit. LEAVE IT. I don't care.

I think what people would appreciate , is that you don't go back to a post and edit it if there are posts already up after yours.

I always go back and read my posts hoping to catch typos that I missed when I read it before posting. And then I still miss things. But it makes no sense to do it if there are other posts there.

.
Lots of us have posted things we regret. But changing them changes the conversation flow and makes readers wonder what is missing.

.
In reality it is a little issue but like getting a hangnail, it can drive some people crazy.

Maybe if you want to edit a post of yours you should quote it and write your preferred correction underneath?

.
Also , if you put periods on a line, as I did above, you will get a paragraph break which makes posts easier to read

Do you want to talk about editing or the edit from singapore?

As an example, I would change that last sentence to read.
.
.
Also , if you put a period after a sentence occasionally it will make your posts easier for me to read

Cheers

So that actually works quite well

Why were you counting anyway?

I wanted to talk about using admin rights in a hotel in Singapore, but you grabbed my post and I went off on a tagent about that... So let's talk about the hotel in Singapore and someone's in a liberal discussion about pot smoking. Does that leave you open for trouble, the posters talking about it, both you and them, or nobody?

I can't see that it would be the posters. What're they going to do?

Hi Kimmio,

 

 

Nobody.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

Thanks for the tip. The question above yours was to Crazyheart. You posted before I did. I thought it would follow right underneath her last comment. That's why it looks like it's to you.

Nobody because their laws aren't strict, or nobody because noone would be snooping?

Nobody cares. If you wrote to WC2 from your hotel in China about overthrowing the government, expect to hear choppers. Otherwise, nobody cares.