Welcome to Week Two of WonderCafe's 2013 Lenten discussion on the new United Church Lenten book, Diving Deeply: Daily Devotions for Lent. (See Week One here.)
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Comments
Ariel
Posted on: 02/17/2013 09:42
Discuss: What anxious thoughts are you aware of? Can you let them go, trusting the Spirit to sustain you?
Sitting in silence, slowing down the breathing helps me to become aware of the nature of the stressful emotion I feel at the time. In this way, I can label the feeling and come to understand it and accept it instead of fighting against it. Then I can acknowledge that some things are out of my control. At this point, I will want to pray, but often cannot find the words - so I choose the repetative prayers like the "Our Father". This way I am reaching out to God, even when I don't know what to say ...
There's a church within walking distance from my work - it's a catholic church and seems to always be open. I have spent a lot of my lunch hours in that church, in it's candle-lit sanctuary, on my knees, in meditation and prayer - in God's presence. It has brought me a peace beyond my understanding.
Beloved
Posted on: 02/17/2013 09:45
Discuss: What anxious thoughts are you aware of?
Most anxious thoughts - concern about some health and being healthy issues, fear of failure, inability to let go of things in the past I have done that have hurt others, fear of aging & dying - not for myself - but fear of who will do the things that I do and give the help that I give to my adult daugher with some challenges.
Can you let them go, trusting the Spirit to sustain you?
Can I - I'm sure I could - there are times that I have . . . there are times that I have pulled them back, gave in to worry and fear, and struggled on my own.
I am like Liz - I prefer to find a non-medical, or at least non-medicinal, way of healing. I am looking to meditation. For the past almost two weeks I have entered in to a time of early morning meditation - while I haven't mastered it yet, I am working at it. I am trying to find a practice that works for me. If anything else, it is a quiet time when I center and focus on God/Spirit. I believe it is and will continue to make a difference in my life.
And then I face the day . . . I do not spend the whole day in worry, fret, and fear, but there are those moments when such a thought will arise . . . sometimes I more apt to turn from the thought, and other times I run with it. I need to practice bringing my thoughts, concerns, and worries to the Spirit to sustain me.
I pray with others . . . O Spirit of Peace, I let go of my anxious strugging and surrender into your peace, the peace that passes all understanding. Amen.
revjohn
Posted on: 02/17/2013 09:56
Discuss: What anxious thoughts are you aware of? Can you let them go, trusting the Spirit to sustain you?
None routinely. There are times when I get off routine and I find some anxiety about getting done what I have been asked to do.
I don't find the anxiety to be crippling so much as niggling. A little voice at the back of my head reminding me not to forget sort of thing. At the end of the day I rarely go to sleep worrying about what I failed to get done.
I am not an anxious person.
Grace and peace to you.
John
waterfall
Posted on: 02/17/2013 10:16
"What anxious thoughts are you aware of? Can you let them go trusting the Spirit to sustain you?"
If I get anxious it's because I've filled my head with "what ifs". What if this happens? or What if this doesn't happen? or What if I had done this instead?
What I've come to realize is that I needed to replace the "what ifs?" with "what now?" I've become a firm believer in realizing that I, through God, have the power to change anything from the moment I'm in NOW even if its just to change my perspective from something being hopeless to being hopeful.
From the New Zealand Prayer Book:
Lord It Is Night
The night is for stillness
Let us be still in the presence of God.
It is night after a long day
What has been done has been done, what has not been done has not been done.
Let it be.
The night is dark,
Let our fears of the darkness of the world and of our own lives rest in you.
The night is quiet,
Let the quietness of your peace enfold us, all dear to us, and all who have no peace.
The night heralds the dawn,
Let us look expectantly to a new day, new joys, new possibilities.
In your name we pray,
Amen
MikePaterson
Posted on: 02/17/2013 16:47
My anxious thoughts are all long gone.
The tides rise and fall, the seasons come and go… and so do we. God is great, and will be with us tomorrow too, even though it’s Monday.
PurpleDragon
Posted on: 02/17/2013 17:22
I feel more jolly now, since I found some brightly colored yarn and a good crochet project to dispel the winter doldrums. This should also prove helpful to distract my mind from a strong tendency to worry. Since my "lent fasting" goal is to take a break from my anxious ways - I also purchased some interesting "worry release" audios to listen to. I used to go to a contemplative prayer group and a meditation group - but they both have disbanded now and so has my private meditation practice. I can't seem to get back to it with any enthusiasm, so I'm exploring other ways to find peace & grounding. Being out in nature is always beneficial in this regard, but since we're having a big beautiful blizzard today - the nature jaunts will have to wait.
qwerty
Posted on: 02/18/2013 02:17
What does it mean "let your fears go"? Is that like "ignore your fears" or "brush your fears aside" or "think about something else"? Is it "keep a stiff upper lip and carry on"? Is it to think "que sera sera"? Does it mean to play for time and don't make any fast moves because the passage of time fixes nearly everything? Does it just mean to be optimistic because there are so many more permutations and combinations of things and events than the mind can conceive when it conjures up its nightmare scenarios so that for every fear there are bound to be several scenarios which have not been imagined (and probably can't be) which lead to good outcomes? (By the way this last one is something like what the word God conjures up for me.)
I understand the concept of meditation somewhat. The idea that emptying out the intellect leaves room for the spirit to grow (something like a fast for the mind). I guess I understand that there might be some efficacy in knowing that your fears have arisen (though I'm not sure I have ever been afraid and not known my fears have arisen so I'm wondering what extra dimension meditation brings in this respect). Neither do I (as I have said) understand what it means to "let go" of anxious fearful thoughts.
Meditation and the subsequent "letting go" only makes sense to me in the context of an amorphous or inchoate fear ... nameless unfocussed anxiety. In this case it could be an immense advantage to know that the unspecified discomfort ... the knot in one's gut ... was anxiety (arising perhaps from stress or from some unconscious fear). I think that meditation might be useful for a person suffering depression, for instance.
I have tried meditation briefly from time to time and found that my mind wandered away to other topics and that focussing on my breathing did not seem to be a productive use of my time but, on the other hand, I do not suffer from depression or anxiety. When I feel anxious, I usually know (1) that I am anxious and (2) what is making me anxious and take steps if I can to remove the irritant. If the irritant will not so easily go away then I adopt some of the approaches first mentioned.
MikePaterson
Posted on: 02/18/2013 06:44
Qwerty: my dad (a man of tremendous personal courage) taught me that fear is a signal that someone/something else is messing with your life.
Succumbing to fear is often about submitting tosomeone else's rules and game plan. That may or may not be something you want to do, but fear is the worst possible reason for doing it.
He would say that feeling afraid, embarrassed, guilty, worthless or ignorant are paralysing emotions: and on-one else can impose them on you: you don't have to go along with it.
When you feel such emotions, look around for the source. Then do something about it… ignoring it can be the best thing to do. Few fears amount to what they seem.
DivingDeeply
Posted on: 02/18/2013 09:07
revjohn
Posted on: 02/18/2013 09:32
Discuss: How open am I to the mysteries hidden within my beliefs and to the mysteries revealed, unexpectedly, in others? How do I know I am open?
At the risk of coming across as close minded how open are we to the fact that there are no mysteries hidden in our own beliefs?
Mystery is beyond the self.
I believe in mystery. Nothing mysterious about that. Any and all mystery that is a part of my faith has nothing to do with me and everything to do with how God operates. It is what I do not know about God or what I do not understand about how God operates that is the mystery and the only time that approaches me is when I contemplate why God is so insistent on my being a part of what God is building.
Open to mystery? It is there whether I am open to it or not.
Mysteries revealed in others? If I cannot comprehend why God would include me I am not going to understand why God would include others. The wonder of redemption I revel in. When grace is poured out on myself or any other it touches the deepest part of who I am.
It continues to remain a mystery.
And I am okay with mystery because I have never thought or believed that unless I understand everything something is wrong.
Grace and peace to you.
John
Beloved
Posted on: 02/18/2013 10:05
God is mystery. God, and how God moves and does, is a mystery. But through our intellect, our spirit, our learning, our seeking, we come to an understanding of who God is to us. My understanding is different than that of others - even others who hold a majority of the same beliefs as I.
God is to me what God reveals to me . . . which is as individual as I am . . . God reveals . . . my part is to open myself up to receive and accept the mystery of God. Through this lenten season this year I am attempting to do that . . . to open myself to God.
How do I know that I am open . . . I am open because I want to be . . . I want to know God more clearly, love God more dearly, and follow God more nearly.
MikePaterson
Posted on: 02/18/2013 14:02
I am never sure where non-mystery starts.
My last breath: the oxygen that’s now coursing through my arteries: I’m not the first creature or person to have sustained my life thanks to those tiny atoms. But what were those previous users? Who were they? How does that work? Most directly, they probably came from a tree, or marine algae. The bonds go a long way back: I share mitochrondrial DNA with EVERY multicellular organism on the planet: all of us “Eukaryotes” sprang from a unique interaction of a pair of tiny microbes.
(http://nosretap-ekim.blogspot.ca/2010/10/creation-story.html)
Non-mystery is a very fragile construct. Mysteries worthy of the name are impervious to intellect; but intellect facilitates my engagement with mystery. It certainly helps to free me from other people’s insistence that I experience mystery the way they do. It’s an important element in my practice of discernment. We have to enter into our own, personal relationship with the mystery.
And the danger in the darkness of human affairs, I would suggest, is certainty, particularly uncritical certainty. Certainty is a sign I don’t know enough about whatever it is I’m talking about.
Certainty, it seems to me, is something that can exist only in a few very highly managed contexts.
I can’t think of anything I “believe” in any sense other than “giving my trust to”.
I can never get far from an awareness of how limited and circumscribed are my limited capacities to see, hear, smell, taste, feel, remember, think, and to integrate the limited, context-bound samplings I make from a vast Universe and from a fast-moving, beauty-filled World… I find it difficult to accept that any of us ever get past hypotheses.
It’s not as though we share a platform of deep self-knowledg. We tend not to “do” self-knowledge. It scares us.
But each of us is the prisoner of a unique personal consciousness: a first, inescapable cage.
But, each of us inhabits a culture that interprets experience in limited, prescriptive ways, and resources us as social creatures with an imprecise language, naïve concepts and a number of behavioral restraints: it’s a second cage… but we can wiggle through the bars of this one, if we’re determined.
Language, we need to remember, is a tool that enables us to construct illusions. And these illusions give us frameworks.
Socially, we tend to be confined within these frameworks.
Sharing our descriptions of life, awareness and “reality” helps to prop up the friendships, love and community we enjoy… but these descriptions are not, of themselves, especially meaningful.
It’s the EXPERIENCE that transforms. I can tell you about, say, encountering an small pod of Orcas while I was diving, finding a tear in my eye at the beauty of a tiny wasp gathering nectar from a yellow flower or being lifted by a river song. But my words will be of limited significance to you, even if you’ve shared similar experiences. Certainly none my descriptions will transform you the way the experience transformed me, or the way that your experiences transformed you.
As for angels… I don't "believe in" angels… I discern them, I encounter them: in my regular times of reflection besid the river. I don't know if YOU would hear them. I think we have to be ready to listen in ways that aren'r widely practised these days and perhaps never have been. Angels are a gift.
So am I open? I'm usually and have long been considered a cynic by my closest friends.
So I’ve no way of knowing. I miss a lot of all that goes on around me. I’m easily, sometimes willfully, determinedly distracted.
I seem to wring more from experience as the experience-altered me engages with ongoing experience. That’s probably, at least in part, my vexed intellect at work.
Is there a scale to measure open-ness? Are there criteria of open-ness? How discerning should open-ness be? Is intellect necessarily tyrannical?
waterfall
Posted on: 02/18/2013 12:11
I'm trying to imagine what life would be like without the mystery. Suddenly we have all the answers to everything. What a dull world with nothing to pursue.
I don't need to know how they get the caramel in the cadbury bar to enjoy it.
qwerty
Posted on: 02/18/2013 13:26
The text which introduces Day 5 - Monday: Hidden Mysteries is misleading, jumbled, confused, and inverted in its conclusion. Even the title suggests the poorly thought out mess that is to come! Aren't all mysteries hidden? Isn't that what makes them mysterious? You can get away with this stuff in a post to a social networking site but writing that is intended to be printed and published in book form should aspire to something better than this.
Having commented on the very beginning of the piece, let us jump now to its very end, namely, the Prayer to accompany the reading. The prayer suggested for this reading is:
O God of Mystery, grant me the gift of faith, that I might be set free from the tyranny of my own intellect.
Against this prayer let us set for your consideration the words of Chris Hedges a contemporary writer on social and political subjects who wrote:
“The split in America, rather than simply economic, is between those who embrace reason, who function in the real world of cause and effect, and those who, numbed by isolation and despair, now seek meaning in a mythical world of intuition, a world that is no longer reality-based, a world of magic.”
― Chris Hedges, American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America
The author rails against those who “no longer believed in angels” or who “make similar claims of disbelief when it comes to the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, the virgin birth, or the efficacy of prayer.” He outlines his deeply reactionary complaint that the church attempts to renew itself by making faith more appealing to contemporary society (Horrors!) He then goes on to argue for old time religion and whines about how “old doctrines are cast aside, traditional beliefs are made more palatable, and all reports of supernatural activity are treated with suspicion or contempt. The intellect, the rational mind, has become an idol, a judge of all that’s true. Each person’s individual intelligence becomes the standard.”
CP then invokes the authority of Flannery O'Connor to argue for uncritical acceptance, writing:
Have we placed too much confidence in the ability of the mind to determine what is true? Flannery O’Connor, a Roman Catholic writer, encourages us to develop a Christian skepticism that would enable us to be formed by something larger than our own intellect and the intellects of those around us.
The Christian skepticism advocated by Flannery O’Connor did not argue for a suspension of disbelief or for a devaluing of the conclusions of the intellect as CP seems to suggest. She argued that belief be rigorously subjected to the operations of the intellect through criticism. She argued that the critical process should proceed through the lens of Christian Dogma and that in this way the mystery of God would be deepened or enhanced and that religious meanings and understanding would be deeper and more fulfilling.
O’Connor wrote:
There is no reason why fixed dogma should fix anything that the writer sees in the world. On the contrary, dogma is an instrument for penetrating reality. Christian dogma is about the only thing left in the world that surely guards and respects mystery. ... Open and free observation is founded on our ultimate faith that the universe is meaningful ...
This statement by O’Connor is no argument for the retention of old time religion but for a continuing re-examination of meanings. This is the true task of “Christian skepticism”. For instance, what is the meaning of “angel” if it does not mean “the stereotypical angel” of old time religion? What is more mysterious? ... an angel with feathered wings or an angel without wings at all who has been living in the house next door for the last 30 years? What about an angel that arrives by taxi cab and enters your house by knocking at the front door and waiting for you to open it? Given what we now know about energy fields, psychology, and quantum mechanics what is the efficacy of prayer? Would a prayer that influences events on the other side of the world through a physical process of cause and effect be more or less mysterious than one that operates through the physical intervention of a deity? I would suggest that the former is more mysterious than the latter in that it opens the matter of prayer to greater curiosity, study and interest and presents us with more questions and avenues from which to expand our exploration of the power of prayer.
I find the use of the example of how “the flight of an eagle overhead is charged with spiritual significance” to be an example of the atomistic sort of self-made, do-it-yourself, religion against which O’Connor complains. CP says “their belief is not due to diminished intelligence or an inability to reason; it is a gift from God”. I can’t help but ask what exactly makes the flight of an eagle more of a spiritual event than the flight of a sparrow. I think O’Connor would hasten to respectfully point out that whatever it is, it may not be Christianity. He asks, “So why do we invest so much time and energy distancing ourselves from that kind of faith and belief?” I would answer that we don’t “distance ourselves from that kind of faith and belief” but rather that we examine it critically in the light of Christian principles as Flannery O’Connor suggested that we ought to do .
So! The question being asked was:
How open am I to the mysteries hidden within my beliefs and to the mysteries revealed, unexpectedly, in others? How do I know I am open?
My answer is that I am very open. How do I know? I know because my awareness is heightened when I take the time to examine with a critical mind each new mystery (and each facet of old mysteries) through the lens of Christian principle.
MikePaterson
Posted on: 02/18/2013 14:16
Intellect can. I think, become narrow and nasty… just as credultity can.
Your criticisms, Qwerty, are well-founded and the editing seems to have been loose and uncertain… I'm just trying to catch what I can from it and I'm finding some thoughts do gain focus through finding whatever's there. Open-ness, though, is a curly one. I find many non-Christian sourced principles very helpful. And I think it has to go far beyond "the critical mind" into experience because our minds are somewhat limited — physiologically and culturally. If our minds were more abled — and we heeded them — life would be much saner and more pleasant and the World would not be in the mess it is.
DivingDeeply
Posted on: 02/19/2013 08:26
Beloved
Posted on: 02/19/2013 09:20
One of my favorite Steve Bell songs, "How Long" is adapted from Psalm 13.
A variety of people have come in such times of despair and feelings of sorrow and fear. Some have prayed, sent food, massaged feet, held a hand, ran a bath, shared in word, sat in silence, stayed the night or stayed for a moment.
In most instances, the presence of others has transformed me by reminding me that God is there. Their presence is sometimes my God "with skin on". And the words from Steve Bell's "How Long" adapted from Psalm 13:5&6 -
"Yet I’ll trust in Your love
Yes Your unfailing love
And I will sing out my days
That You’ve been good to me
Yes You’ve been good to me ."
remind me of God's unfailing love, and faithful presence.
waterfall
Posted on: 02/19/2013 09:38
First of all thank you Linda for this wonderful story. It touched my heart this morning.
It reminded me when my sister was dying from numerous brain tumors and breast cancer. She was very devout in her faith but also very scared. One day I reminded her about her love for Jesus and how he would carry her through. Her response? "Today I need Jesus with skin on".
This has stayed with me and the importance of the human touch and contact on an earthly level along with the spiritual. We are also human after all and when someone takes the time to put their faith in action it becomes remarkable.
I recall a time going through a very bad period in my own life. I was depressed and had no appetite. My friend started coming everyday with soup and spoon fed me. When I asked her how long she was going to do this, she stated, "until you can do it yourself". I will always love her for that. She didn't tell me to "snap out of it" or try to rush the process of grieving. It was actually very humbling and created a desire to feel better.
We certainly have been given the power to make a difference in others lives.
waterfall
Posted on: 02/19/2013 09:40
Beloved, "God with skin on", both of us thinking the same thing!
Pinga
Posted on: 02/19/2013 10:09
Sudden unexpected loss resulted in me being surrounded by hospital busyness. Family present, then heading home to care for others and themselves. Remembering the darkness of the 2am of the hospital, the attempts to stifle sobs, hearing the rustle in the next bed, my saying "I am sorry for waking you", and the voice " don't worry dearie, let it out". ....a person we had not met, being gracious in allowing our family space to grieve, but aware and offering kind words in the wee hours of the morning.
later, after alll the people had gone back to work, the days of healing and recovery wearing on, our small son, barely more than a toddler himself, offering hugs and cuddles, when no words would work.
God's messengers of hope: one unknonw, one unknowing, but each reaching out in the only way they knew. Providing comfort.
PurpleDragon
Posted on: 02/19/2013 10:47
MikePaterson
Posted on: 02/19/2013 11:22
I do not feel alone thanks to the close relationship my wife and I have long enjoyed, and our many good friends. And the angels.
So I had to think about this. Back… back… a long way back…
Alone? The word brings a little laughter to me:
A long time ago, while I was a compulsory military training Naval Reservist, I got left on an old-fashioned mooring buoy by the Navy. It was an experience that gave me a nicely defined experience of being on my own for a while.
The Navy liked to do things the old, labor-intensive traditional way, so they’d drop a boat and put a “buoy jumper” on a mooring buoy to feed a line and attached cable through a big steel eye and shackle the chain cable to it. I liked to volunteer.
At Lyttleton, a howling gale was blowing. My ship, a small supply tanker, couldn’t get into the designated berth for some reason, so the captain decided to moor. I got onto the buoy with the line; the boat took the free end back towards the ship. They got to the bit where they were feeding out cable but the ship got caught by the gale: the line went taut… very, very taut. It hummed and screamed then suddenly went slack. I dropped into the water to avoid lash of the snapped line, then managed to clamber back onto the buoy. I watched my ship set off downwind to a different berth altogether. So here’s me, drenched, very cold, in a gale on a big, bucking, leaping steel buoy. I tied myself to the ladder on the buoy’s side and waited. My cigarettes were wet.
Who came to be with me?
It took several hours for a pilot launch to get out to pick me up…
Back on board my ship, my teeth wouldn’t stop chattering. I was given a double tot, a hot shower and a medical check, then excused duties and sent to my bunk. Everyone thought it was great joke (expressing relief that I’d survived and that there’d be no need for an inquiry or a burial at sea).
I’d never felt abandoned, but I certainly felt alone… cold and tired and alone… on that bouncing buoy.
Knowing I wasn’t abandoned didn’t make being alone altogether more comfortable… I suppose it should have. I only felt better after swearing at a few people, getting the rum inside me and standing under a hot shower till my finger tips puckered.
It’s the shower I remember as if it was yesterday. It was the best shower of my life.
Crazy, eh???
P.S. That experience shaped some of the imagery — but not the content or meaning — of a poem I wrote rather more recently and that somehow suggested itself to me in reflecting on today's meditation:
BUCKETING ALONG
We bend time around our purpose
like a smith ringing iron at his anvil
then quench what we forge from our dreams
in the black, hissing waters of alien realms.
Stark worlds of difference set far apart
our dreams and the things that we craft
then see jarringly hefted in others’ hands.
And we yearn to believe it’s our time
at the anvil that counts.
Death’s personal, a trivial bodily function;
Life’s communal and rushes on regardless
to meet again, like mountain cataracts
reaching the sea, water to water, life to life,
where all that’s been carried or confining
escapes into the heaving vastnesses;
and consternations, fears and prides
in darkening stillness settle
to silent sediments below.
Freedom is learning to drown
in the whole of humanity.
— MP
DivingDeeply
Posted on: 02/19/2013 13:38
Hi Folks,
Thanks for all your comments on and ongoing participation. Just a reminder, biographical sketches of the daily reflection writers can be found here:
http://www.wondercafe.ca/divingdeeply_writers
Thanks again!
revjohn
Posted on: 02/19/2013 15:22
Perhaps the most difficult moment of my adult life was many, many years ago. It was during that time when I was too young to have much support outside of family and suddenly too old to be supported by family for a number of reasons.
Too much lifechange all at once and I was alone.
I saw a friend coming and I just didn't have the strength to be strong and do the stiff upper lip thing. I tried to breeze on past like I had places to go and things to do. She knew me to well for that and got in my way. Wouldn't let me past and that's when I folded.
Suddenly I was held and her love for me simply brushed away the weight of the world. I was no longer adrift or hanging. I had someone I could lean on. After some time letting it all out I had the strength to get back up with renewed vigour and a better disposition.
No words.
Just presence.
That moment has been a touchstone ever since.
Others have stood in the gap she left behind and I have many other friends who wouldn't hesitate if I needed them.
While I value their physical presences, just knowing that they would be present for me if I called upon them is often enough to console me when times grow tough and dark.
Grace and peace to you.
John
Ariel
Posted on: 02/19/2013 20:35
Regarding loneliness, I would like to share a quote from Henri Nouwen:
"Loneliness is about feeling isolated and separate. Solitude is about dealing with your aloneness in a positive way. You say: ‘I feel alone but I am well. I claim my aloneness. I embrace it as a source of life.’ To speak about solitude is basically making a print of the negative which is loneliness. It’s a way of living and can take a lifetime. Every day I feel lonely again. Every moment that is new, I discover my loneliness at a deep level. I have to keep choosing to convert that loneliness into solitude. The whole spiritual life is a constant choice to let your negative spirituals experiences become an opportunity for conversion and renewal, whether it’s despair, doubt, loneliness, or anger. We have to really look at these, not put them away and live virtuously. It’s much more like trusting that, if I embrace my loneliness, depression, and I struggle in faith that, somewhere, in the middle, I find light and hope."
Pinga
Posted on: 02/19/2013 22:42
Thank-you everyone for your posts. I was delayed getting started; and did appreciate todays gathering.
DivingDeeply
Posted on: 02/20/2013 08:39
PurpleDragon
Posted on: 02/20/2013 11:07
Discuss: Lent is about giving things up to help us be more mindful of God. It is also about lifting up lost souls and helping to heal their wounds. They hunger for a listening ear and a word of encouragement. What lost soul might you lift up today.....
**************************************
Well, I don't think I'd call them "lost souls", but I am going to visit some loved ones in the hospital today. My great aunt, who is 85, fell down the stairs yesterday - she broke a bone in her face, has a huge black eye, and many bruises all over.
And a woman friend from our spiritual direction group recently had heart surgery and is in the hospital recovering well.
I pray for divine help to offer encouragement and support to both of them.
Mahakala
Posted on: 02/20/2013 12:51
Sorry, this found this Lent study. I also have a problem calling people who are down, "lost souls". It shows a patronizing attitude. It's much better to reach out to people because you have compassion --- literally, you share the "passion" they are going thorugh. We are seriously deluding ourselves if we think ourselves above or better than somebody who may be expereincing something difficult, whether temporaryily or if it's a lasting condition.
revjohn
Posted on: 02/20/2013 13:29
Discuss: Lent is about giving things up to help us be more mindful of God. It is also about lifting up lost souls and helping to heal their wounds. They hunger for a listening ear and a word of encouragement. What lost soul might you lift up today?
While I have no problem, theologically, with the term "lost soul" I don't find that the term works pastorally.
I also find that the way the question is framed may lead to the conclusion that one lifts "lost souls" up for what the individual gains from doing so. If I am providing ministry it is for others and not for the benefit I might derive from it.
Grace and peace to you.
John
Mahakala
Posted on: 02/20/2013 14:01
Yes, I agree. Theologically there are lost souls. But I don't think these questions are referring to that are they?
It's this holier than thou attitude that keeps our churches from growing in my opinon.
Beloved
Posted on: 02/20/2013 15:11
I hear and get that some don't like the term "lost souls" for the very reasons they stated. If I think of presuming someone is a "lost soul" because I think they don't know God, then that is indeed judgemental, patronizing, and presuming.
But if I think of someone as a "lost soul" because they are in a place where they feel they have lost their way - and don't know how to find their way out of illness, depression, a challenging or dangerous situation or relationship, grief, heartache, etc. then I can think about what I might be able to do to heal their wounds - by listening, by encouraging, by helping, by praying, etc. They might just need to be reminded that they are loved and that they are not alone.
PurpleDragon
Posted on: 02/20/2013 16:23
Yes, I can agree with that perspective on lost souls, Beloved. Thanks for your words.
crazyheart
Posted on: 02/20/2013 16:38
Beloved , would the words "walking wounded" be the same as "lost souls"?
revjohn
Posted on: 02/20/2013 16:44
Hi Mahakala,
But I don't think these questions are referring to that are they?
I think our collective problem is that we, as a group, don't know how the writer intended the term to be applied.
If this particular author was present for the conversation then we could clear up misunderstandings swiftly.
It's this holier than thou attitude that keeps our churches from growing in my opinon.
Respectfully, I didn't get a holier than thou feel from the question or the language. I did get a disconnect.
Grace and peace to you.
John
qwerty
Posted on: 02/20/2013 17:31
Sorry I missed the piece on "aloneness". Frankly its a feeling I don't really get to experience. In my line of work, there is a constant parade of people through my office and, I guess, my life, so I am never lonely and like Mike, I have a very good (and long marriage) that has meant there is no real opportunity to feel alone either. About the most alone I've felt was in the few minutes I waited on a in a darkened hospital hallway outside the operating room while the nuse arrange things for me to enter. I have to admit I didn't feel the need to call out to God in my fear etc.. I do have to say I took an extra good look around just in case it was more or less the last thing I would be looking at. I think I might have said to myself something like, "God I sure hope this works out alright." I was thinking how disappointed my family might be if it wasn't. I guess it was a prayer.
Beloved
Posted on: 02/20/2013 20:00
Beloved , would the words "walking wounded" be the same as "lost souls"?
I think so crazyheart.
Ariel
Posted on: 02/20/2013 21:18
I don't like the words "lost souls" either - I feel they categorize people - those that need prayer and those that pray for them. I am not interested in that sort of relationship. That does not resonate with me.
I am blessed with a couple of close friends who are spiritual and pray. We pray for each other - sometimes one needs prayer, the other prays - and vice versa.
I'm comfortable with this - it's a relationship between equals.
We lift each other up as the occasion calls for.
DivingDeeply
Posted on: 02/21/2013 08:43
revjohn
Posted on: 02/21/2013 09:16
Discuss: Is there someone who would appreciate your accompaning them in this stage of their life? How would you do that?
Someone more than I am already in the process of accompanying? None that I am aware of at present.
How do I accompany?
That would depend on what is most needful and that will vary from companion to companion. Some simply want a travelmate. Others are looking for a guide. Still others are looking for something like a pack-mule.
All of those wants have legitimacy from time to time. To be a good companion I would need to be able to discern when the time is appropriate for these and other tasks.
None of us knows what lies ahead and if I do not help my companions to meet these needs as they are able they will be no better equipped to travel when I can no longer be their companion.
Grace and peace to you.
John
MikePaterson
Posted on: 02/21/2013 10:30
I've just started relief teaching for a literacy, English as a second language and remedial skils provider. I've yet to be called in. But I'm very much looking forward to it. I've done a little of this in the past and it's the most rewarding teaching there is. I never did regular teacher training so I can't take this on as fully as I'd like.
I get the needs for police checks and basic training, etc, but a lot of the needs for this kind of mentoring, companionship and remedial work are ring-fenced for reasons of safety and effectiveness. And I've been often told I'm "over-qualified" which I find hard to swallow.
Person to person, informally and in the community I'm active as opportunities arise. What I have found here is that contact tends to be erratic: just so many things to do…
Beloved
Posted on: 02/21/2013 11:29
(Waterfall, there's the "God with skin on" thing again :) I heard that (or read it) many, many years ago, and it's always stuck with me. Very often my dear friend and I refer to it.)
Is there someone who would appreciate my accompanying them in this stage in their life?
There are many that I am accompanying now . . . and I'm sure there are others who would appreciate it. And I believe if there is that they will find their way to me, or I to them.
I think we need to be sensitive to God's leading . . . someone may really need our help and presence, and if we can do it, then we should follow that leading. But we can't help or accompany everyone - so we need to make sure we don't try to be everything to everyone.
How would you do that?
Again, I think it has to be done with searching and listening and being sensitive. Sometimes the accompanying is very apparent - and an immediate need needs to be met, sometimes it is a card or a phone call, sometimes it requires more time, energy, and resources.
qwerty
Posted on: 02/21/2013 22:24
Well I'm a little pressed for time these last few days so I'll keep it short. if you are a parent then you have someone that you are accompanying. I thought that maybe when my children hit adulthood that things would tail off a bit in that department. I have found that it is just the opposite. It is easy to be a kid and it is hard to be an adult. I find myself supporting and "being with" my grown children as much or more than ever. The challenges are greater because one must respect your childs adulthood and be truly present for them.
I also teach at the local college and I can tell you that one of the greatest things you can do for your students is to be present for them and give them the support they need to become confident and to feel the value of their attainments. I tell them at the outset that I am there to help them make their dreams come true and that I will do everything in my power to support their efforts and objectives.
DivingDeeply
Posted on: 02/22/2013 08:02
-Luke 5:16 (Good News Bible)
Beloved
Posted on: 02/22/2013 08:45
For the past month or so I have risen earlier than normal in the morning to spend a quiet time with God, through meditation. Following that, since Lent began, I have been doing this daily devotional, reading and reflecting on the story, scripture, questions, and prayer.
I think I could really benefit from time spent with a spiritual director to deepen my knowledge and relationship with God.
revjohn
Posted on: 02/22/2013 09:11
Discuss: How do you take — and make — time to “be” with God? What do you do with your God-time? Could you benefit from time spent with a spiritual director?
Personal make time practices include spending my brief commute to work my meditation time. Laying all plans and goals before God and listening for God's counsel. No phone calls or e-mails are made, answered or returned without a moment of prayer that I will hear God in the voice of the other. The commute home becomes another moment of meditation and thanksgiving for the God who was present for me and through me.
When shifting from duty to duty or traveling from ministry to ministry I take time to meditate and centre.
I suppose time with a spiritual director would not be liability so it technically becomes an asset. I don't at present find my spiritual life foundering so . . . who takes swimming lessons when they can already swim?
Grace and peace to you.
John
qwerty
Posted on: 02/22/2013 09:29
Well What a coincidence! I too have been doing meditation. I started doing it because of the thoughts and conversations about meditation that appeared here in these Lenten reflections. I like it. I think it offers the benefits ... actively cultivate silence in your life ... to plough a furrow through the busyness — the noise and distractions of the day ... set aside me time ... and intentionally “be” (with God). I like it because one doesn’t have to make a big production out of it but can do it when the opportunity arises. If I have ten or 15 minutes free at my desk I can stop and meditate ... if I was driving a truck I could sit in the cab and meditate while I was waiting at the loading dock. I am finding that it has had immediate benefits. If I was trying to be scientific (which I now am) I would guess that autonomic responses (beyond ratiocination which is an important life skill but which, as Mike suggests, not the only important life skill) kick in to elicit beneficial results notwithstanding the stresses and strains one might be facing in one's day.
Like Beloved, I too am going to claim these Lenten devotions as a way that I am gaining benefits from a "spiritual director" (because I really have benefitted).
Anyone wishing to take up meditation would probably benefit from finding Mary Meckley's videos at You Tube because what she has to say allows a quick start and gives some good insight into the process. She also has a website called www.sipandom.com which is good too. Her collected videos can be found at ...
http://www.youtube.com/user/marymeckley/videos
Pinga
Posted on: 02/22/2013 09:33
So pertinent today, as I spent time catching up on this program. It has been too long since I have been slicing time out for quiet time, reflection which doesn't imply typing, chatting, responding.
I don't know if a spiritual director would be of value, maybe....but I think a spiritual team might be, a group of faith that are there and matter. Maybe that is the benefit of a small church or a home church or small groups, people who cannot help but be aware of the God in their midst. That small group where each knows the other, and though may not be best of friends, have a common purpose.
I find that driving is a good time, turn off the radio, be aware of the land around me, the hawks that fly overhead, the changing landscape as winter slips into spring.
Thanks for reminding me of the importance of intention.
Pinga
Posted on: 02/22/2013 09:36
No phone calls or e-mails are made, answered or returned without a moment of prayer that I will hear God in the voice of the other.
thanks.
crazyheart
Posted on: 02/22/2013 10:43
Intentional is the word Pinga. I just feel God is with me all the time even if I am not meditating.