The best fertilizer is the footprints of the gardener, shoes and socks off everybody.

revjohn,

Thank-you for the timely reminder. I wonder if at the inception of this place the administrators would have expected such a diverse group?
Well intended topics sometimes have unravelled into nasty disagreements. Well intended topics have sometimes gone unnoticed, or treated with little respect.
Pleas for help have sometimes been treated with dignity, sometimes treated with sarcasm.
While our humanness, our faults and weaknesses stand out as errors of judgement, I feel that on the whole this has been and continues to be a good place, a fertile place.

Tonight we enter the garden, seeking to be on guard for Jesus - fighting the weariness and our fears. He will be taken away from us - we will let it happen. And on Easter He will come again, embracing us in the joy of eternal love.

Peace be with you on this Maundy Thursday.

DelG2

I thought Jesus did want us to be Jewish and his little followers made us Christians?

How about for Easter we review some of the topics we posted - if it seems worthwhile, if there is still something to discuss, perhaps with the new members, would it be possible to ressurect them on resurrection Sunday.

If it wasn't for Jesus I'd still be a Celt wearing a kilt and painting my face blue. No wait, I did that on Nov. 30. I just wouldn't call it St. Andrew's day.

What surprised me about this site was the number of people who came looking for an arguement with the UCC. What amazed me is that some of them stayed and had a conversation.

John said: Some seed fell into good soil where it had no competition and may be growing healthily yet? If that seed was yours how can we help you nurture it?

I have just one focus, as any who have seen my name around already know. One seed, to use the imagery of this thread.

Danito started a thread called "God and simplicity". I posted what I would call a bit of a rant, curious to see if there would be a response. I talked about the online petition for the Golden Rule. The fact that its simplicity is universal, a common meeting ground for our diverse belief systems.

I'm not sure what kind of ground it fell on. It received the response that i expected. Not a single comment. So maybe its rocky ground.

How to nurture it? I offered an absolutely simple way to do that. sign the petition. Not one new signature.

John, you invited people to dream big. So here's my dream.

That we come together through acknowledging that there is one underlying statement of faith/conduct/mutuality that ties all of Creation together, regardless of what, orf if, we "believe".

That understanding that mutuality empowers us to act to bring about the transformation that lies at the heart of all faith.

Hi Revjohn,

All of this talk of planting seeds and it's still snowing...I'm itching to do some tilling and watering outside! This site has been an invaluable learning experience for me in many ways.

I didn't know very much about the gay community and have been treated with patience and humor as I learned the "ropes" and their struggles.

I was also not familiar with online discussions and have learned heaps about that, too.

I've enjoyed the different opinions about faith, and the social aspect is great with my morning or evening brew!

John, I have been surprised (pleasantly, I might add ) to see the diversity of posters but I have been humbled by the number of hurting posters. Posters who have stories to tell but did not have an ear to tell them to.

Wondercafe has become the fertile ground for some of these people. I hope it has helped.

I also sense that there are many lonely folk among us and again WonderCafe is providing fertile ground to stimulate discussion, laughter and friendship.

Wonderin,

Hi,

You wrote:

I am called to sow the seed. The holy Spirit does the watering and God will claim the harvest.

That is very true. And yet, we have been invited to participate which strikes my mind that the invitation is to something more than spectate. The Holy Spirit is going to be doing a fair bit of nurture but that doesn't let us off the hook. There is still some humble assistance we can offer. As far as the harvest goes, yes God will claim it but again, we are invited to be part of the reaping crew.

You wrote:

I used to worry, after sowing, if the results I wanted weren't hapenning until I finally realized that it was not my job to convert but simply to sow and nurture.

I'm not focussing on conversion I'm more concerned for the conversation.

Part of how we can use this place and part, I suspect, of how God will use this place will be through people like you and I and the conversations we have, either with each other or with someone else.

It is the conversations that I have an eye to at the moment and how we contribute within those conversations.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Seeler,

Hi,

You asked:

would it be possible to ressurect them on resurrection Sunday.

Most certainly it would and, I would go one step further, we can resurrect those threads that seem to us to be most needful whether they be ours or not.

So, if there is something you want resurrected don't wait for an inviation from someone else.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Goldenrule,

Hi,

You wrote:

Danito started a thread called "God and simplicity". I posted what I would call a bit of a rant, curious to see if there would be a response. I talked about the online petition for the Golden Rule. The fact that its simplicity is universal, a common meeting ground for our diverse belief systems.

I'll search that thread out and give it another looksee

Grace and peace to you.

John

RevJamesMurray,

Hi,

You wrote:

What amazed me is that some of them stayed and had a conversation.

Yeah, that is great isn't it?

We must not be that hard to hang around with.

Grace and peace to you.

John

abpenney,

Hi,

You wrote:

I've enjoyed the different opinions about faith, and the social aspect is great with my morning or evening brew!

Well I think we can continue to deliver more of that.

Grace and peace to you.

John

crazyheart,

Hi,

You wrote:

Wondercafe has become the fertile ground for some of these people. I hope it has helped.

Amen.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Cjms,

RE: - Ouch - Erin I think that this "poem" smacks of christian exclusivity and is not worthy of you or the board. I appreciate that we hold greatly divergent viewpoints but I would hope that you would see mocking those of the jewish faith to be inappropriate.--

No mocking intended. Our whole religion is the Jewish faith but with one thing different. We recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

If we didn't then we would be following the Jewish faith.

The Jewish part of our bible has everything we need to know about salvation and what the Messiah will do for us thus pointing us to Jesus.

My faith is not exclusive. Everyone is welcome to believe it.

From your profile, you claim to belong to a Christian church but are a secular humanist rather than a Christian but I don't exclude you from believing in Jesus if you want to. I pray for it to happen some day

Erin

"Let those who have ears...."

Mark 8:18 (NIV) Do you have eyes but fail to see, and ears but fail to hear? And don't you remember?

How many times does Jesus have to prove who he is. This is what he is saying in this verse.

Christian exclusivity is not defined as excluding people TO chrisitianity but rather maintaining that it is the only valid path. I prefer to honour the path of anyone - no matter the worldview - hoping that it nourishes their person. Jesus encouraged jews to live their lives to the fullest within Judaism. I'm not convinced that in the time and place that he lived that he would have cared about any other faith than Judaism. Paul, on the other hand, wanted to take this new sect of judaism to the gentile communities. There was great controversy in the Jerusalem church about this mission.

I would hope that you would honour all paths to a life fully lived. I also hope that this was what your response was indicating.

Cathi

Many of the most inspiring Christians I know - the ones that strike me as the closest to God - consider themselves humanists. I don't much bother with the labels though. I am always struck by the grace in cathi's posts.

I think if I were Jewish I would take offense to that poem. I am Christian, and I know I take offense to that poem. I think Cathi was just trying to make a gentle point that you may want to reconsider the tone of that little ditty. It can read as anti-semetic.

I think Cathi demonstrated a little sprout there revjohn - in terms of the seeds scattered here. That we will defend other's faith as we would our own, when our respective faiths are not impinging on the rights of the other. What would the world be like if everyone stood up for everyone else in this manner? Much more pleasant I'm sure.

Jesus mentioned several times that his kingdom would go beyond the Jews. This was in parable and speech.

Cjms,

I'm not saying that the other paths are in-valid. That really is between God and those people.

I'm saying that God, in the Christian religion, says there is only one way. By Christian, I mean those that follow what Jesus says;
John 14:6 (NIV) Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

This is one of the most basic and important passages in Scripture. How can we know the way to God? Only through Jesus. Jesus is the way because he is both God and man. By uniting our lives with his, we are united with God. Trust Jesus to take you to the Father, and all the benefits of being God's child will be yours.

Some people may argue that this way is too narrow. In reality, it is wide enough for the whole world, if the world chooses to accept it. Instead of worrying about how limited it sounds to have only one way, we should be saying, "Thank you, God, for providing a sure way to get to you!"

As the way, Jesus is our path to the Father. As the truth, he is the reality of all God's promises. As the life, he joins his divine life to ours, both now and eternally.

So as to the other paths that you talk about Cathi, I say I sincerely pray that they will get you beyond this life to an exciting eternal life. I have been guaranteed Jesus' way and would be absolutely foolish, now that I know it, to refuse it.

What are you celebrating this Easter weekend other than the fact that Jesus gave everything for us to have a guaranteed way. What more does he have to do for you?

Jesus cared about every other religion in the world. You are making him just a man again.

Erin

I have never met a messianic Jew that argues against this. They are excited to finally have a guaranteed way

Erin asked: What are you celebrating this Easter weekend other than the fact that Jesus gave everything for us to have a guaranteed way. What more does he have to do for you?

I am remembering that Jesus was killed BECAUSE of the evil present in the world. I don't believe in an afterlife so I don't see his death as atonement. For me, Jesus was willing to stand up for his belief that we are all worthy of love and are equally valued. He was even willing to die for that belief. That is worth celebration for me. Thanks for asking.

Cathi

Wonderin,

"I have never met a messianic Jew that argues
against this. They are excited to finally have a
guaranteed way."

A messianic Jew is not the same as a Jew of a
more traditional Jewish belief. There is nothing
a facist Christian likes more than a messianic Jew
for show and tell.

Cathi: For me, Jesus was willing to stand up for his belief that we are all worthy of love and are equally valued. He was even willing to die for that belief. That is worth celebration for me.

Amen

Erin, your poem can be construed as something hurtful. You can defend that or you can see what it may mean to others. The choice is ultimately yours.

Messianic Jews , as a group, are made up of a combination of Jews and Christians. They embrace much of Judaism. Yet, they are not considered Jewish by either Jews or Christians. So, when you state Messianic Jews are not offended, what you are saying is "another group of Christians are not offended".

You have been advised that it hurts Jewish people. You can defend your right to do so. Ultimately, your beliefs are your own.

Shalom aleichem,
Stevie G

I, too, find that poem offensive. I appreciate that you have gone on to clarify your position, Erin, so that I may state with certainty that I do not share your theology. I reject it, and I find it hurtful and hateful to other faith traditions, and to me.

Wonderin:

Thank-you for sharing your poem. It is too bad that you could not have shared it in a more open minded environment where most do not think Christianity is the WRONG path and the way Christians believe is wrong. Or is it because I have not been around for a few days becoming bored with the trite that the vultures are starting to circle around Wonderin now?

I have seen two Hawks tearing apart a Sparrow because it didn't fit with the Hawk's theology.
The Hawk's believed you could eat meat and seeds.
The Sparrow knew that seeds were the only food healthy for it!

Thanks for an afternoon chuckle SerenaWarrior.

Erin

The poem is one I have shared many times amoungst my Jewish friends and at a synogoue I have attened many times in Florida.

They all thought it was a hoot and quite true.

This PC stuff is causing spirirtual blindness for many.

Wonderin said I have seen two Hawks tearing apart a Sparrow because it didn't fit with the Hawk's theology.

This is precisely what happens here on a daily basis and the Hawks are not even ashamed.

Well the Sparrow gave his life for what he believed.

I will ask a question.
If someone Jewish posted a little ditty that read:

Being Jewish you could not handle
And had God had not presumed
All you Gentiles
Would find yourselves doomed

Would that be offensive? Would it not be an insult to Christianity? If you can see that, I ask you to try to see that the above "roses are red" ditty may be offensive to Jews.

The shoe sometimes only pinches on our own feet.

I will say that whether the target is Jew or Gentile, the shoes pinch. If you happen to like the shoe, wear them. If others think they are atrocious, they will.

Serena, one can make one's own religion
most beautiful without the belittling of anothers,

There is no single wrong or right path.

StephenGordon,

That doesn't offend me at all. I think it's cute.

You're a poet and don't know it! Legs like Longfellow's and feet that smell like Dicken's.

Now isn't that fun.

Why are so many of you so unbalanced in your faith to take offense when someone else believes something different.

I'm not in the least bit offended when Islam says that I will not know if I am going to heaven until my good is balanced with my bad.

It doesn't bother me. I am so confident in my faith that nothing anyone else does or anything anyone says can shake it.

I have to admit that I hurt when people poke fun and belittle my Lord Jesus, but do I go on an attack? No.

You guys are so uptight that you could be played as a swinette in a big band.

So loosin up a bit . Live, Love, Laugh and quit playing the poor me garbage that I see so much of. What are you guys, a bunch of little children who got told your nose was too big and you run home to mamma.

Erin

Sorry Erin - IMHO - jokes at another's expense just aren't that funny - no matter how you try and justify them...Cathi

wondering we must remember that if some of the Jewish sect like the pharisees had not rejected Christ, then salvation would not have come to the gentiles.

Cjms,

It wasn't a joke.

It was a true statement. If Christians followed their complete religion without Jesus, they would be following the Jewish religion.

Prove me wrong!

Erin

There are those who would find humour and those who would not. If I thought it was funny and meant no harm and you laughed, fine. If someone else felt hurt, I would apologize. That is me.

Some found your ditty offensive or hurtful and you think that is fine. That is you.

We are each who we are.

erin: It was a true statement. If Christians followed their complete religion without Jesus, they would be following the Jewish religion.

Prove me wrong!

That is a fallacious argument. We could be muslim, buddhist, zoroastrian, some pagan religion, etc, etc, etc. Actually we more likely would be pagan - that was the dominant religion in Rome prior to Christianity. Right time, right place...Cathi

Cjms,

You missed my point completely.

The Christian faith is the Jewish faith with Jesus added in. Without Jesus it reverts to the Jewish faith.

By the way I tease my Jewish friends in Florida by calling them the Florida OrangeJews!!

Erin

...digging yourself deeper, Erin IMHO.

I've stated my opinion and you have yours. Cathi

"I have seen two Hawks tearing apart a Sparrow
because it didn't fit with the Hawk's theology.
The Hawk's believed you could eat meat and
seeds.The Sparrow knew that seeds were the only
food healthy for it!"

Thank you for this insight into an exceedingly
grim and revengeful aspect of your existence.

May you find compassion and insight into how your
rhyme is degrading.

Nothing humble about your opinions Cjms.

wondering I will quote Paul 11 -24

"I say then have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid:but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the gentiles. for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world and the diminishing of them the riches of the gentiles, how much more their fullness?

And if some of the branches be broken of and thou being a wild olive tree wert grafted in amond them with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree, Boast not against the branches,but if thou boast thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Well because of unbelief they were broken off and thou standest by faith be not highminded but fear. And they also if they abide not in unbelief shall be grafted in for God is able to graft them in again.

For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree how much more shall these which are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree."

Wonderin's term:

"Florida OrangeJews!!"

Now that is funny!!

Right on Sientje8,

These folks don't realize that the jews are my people and I am as Jewish as they are. I love them and celebrate their traditions even though they would reject me for worshipping Jesus.

I understand and so did Paul.

Jews and me,
we're quite the pair.
We both love the Lord,
the same one we share.

Messiah we wait for,
with a hope so profound.
They're still waiting for the first time
when his feet hit the ground.

Him I have seen
My Jesus my Lord.
He's coming again,
He gave me his word.

Erin

Hope that one doesn't offend too many of you!

That is more of a statement of faith erin - so "no" I certainly don't take offense at those words...Cathi

Thanks VI,

Cjms thought I was digging myself in deeper with that one.

She must have a hard time smiling.

Erin

wondering sorry that is Romans chapter 11 verses 11-24

Cjms,

If you take the starch out of your underwear and read my first one again, it is a statement of faith but with a little limmerick.

Be Happy, Don't worry so much,

Erin

RevMatt said There is no single wrong or right path

Now if all roads lead to Heaven why do you keep saying Sylviac is wrong?