Prayer is most difficult for me. lack of concentration being the number one problem.

 

Have you tried writing your prayers out? Sometimes that helps.

 

Hi RevLGKing, 

 

Speaking personally, meditation is a type of prayer.

this is what helped me

Psalm 46:10 

 

CH, I have a confession to make: You and I are kindrid spirits. Born in 1930, I too have had the same problem, for years.

 

Who here has not had the same problem?

 

With this in mind, may I ask the following question, without in any way being judgmental.

 

Here goes: Where is it written in the law, including the Bible, that, "God says: You must concentrate, or else?"

 

May I suggest: Go ahead, let your ego-mind wander. 

 

All you need to do is: Observe it as it wanders. It can actually be fun. 

 

Imagine that: Meditative prayer, I now find, can even be a form of fun, and very entertaining .

 

Anyone. Any further suggestions?

Yes, there is a difference between meditation and prayer.

 

Next question.

 

 

LL&P

Spock

Hello RevKing...God bless you...

 

I believe prayer and meditation are different but have the same goal...to know the God of the Cosmos/Universe..my personal relationship comes to me from God by not only prayer, but worship and praise...gratitude is a big part of having a relationship with God.

 

Meditation is another way to have a personal relationship with God I believe it depends on which one works for each individual...

 

I believe there are many ways to build a persoanl relationship with God ...another is through His Wonders of Creation...the sun..which sustains our lives, animals, trees, flowers, all of these things show Gods great Love for Us...and bring us closer to Him....

 

IJL: bg

 

What you "believe" and what is commonly understood appear to be two different things. Have you taken any time/effort to investigate the physiology of the meditative state? You might learn things.

 

LL&P

Spock

 

Hi Spock:  Meditative prayer, a.k.a. as "centering prayer," is meditation.

 

I'd highly recommend some form of meditative or contemplative practice to everyone!

 

  Yes, Arminius. And, in my opinion, though I agree that certain techniques can be taught, learned and are helpful, praying and/or meditating, for me, is more of an art than a science; it seems to me that the individual's form, or style, of 'medpraying' or 'praymeding'--yes, I need a new word, or two, here--is a matter of individual choice. [BTW, I apologize to those who find new words annoying.]

 

For example, when I praymed, I do a lot of observing what is going on with my ego (I realize that it loves a fight). I also question, affirm that I am in and ready to listen to the Being and Presence in which I feel immersed. Take a look: many of the Psalms are full of questions, hard questions.

 

When I medpray, I do a lot of listening. Yes, I do believe in writing things down, listening to and consulting with others, including the Holy Spirit--and perhaps even the holy spirits of those who have passed over. Let's talk about this last point.

 

BTW, Arminius, for me the act of writing is a very meditative-prayer process. And a very enjoyable, almost-addictive one at times. Yes, I appreciate all the posters here and what you write,  and not only when you agree with me.

 

Hi RevKing:

 

Yes, I very much agree with "medpraying," or any other form of meditation, being an art. Everybody has to experiment and find out which meditative artform is best suited for them.

 

Mine is contemplative meditation. Some people call it "daydreaming," but it is not o be confused with idle fantasizing or wishful thinking. It is slipping into a sort of an awake dream, which I have been doing since I was a child, and find easy to do. All I do is turn inward, concentrate a bit, and suddenly my focus has changed, and I am right in it, as if a two-dimensional reality had suddenly snapped into multi-dimensional focus, and everything looks different and clearer.

 

Writing, to me too, can be meditative. I often say that writing is my best medicine, because when I write, I get so aborbed in it that I forget time and place, hunger, thirst, and pain, and when I come out of that state I feel slightly dazed, renewed and refreshed, as if emerging from a dream or a different and better world.

 

An Die Kunst

 

O holde Kunst, in wieviel grauen Stunden,

Da mich des Leben's wilder Kreis umstrickt,

Hast du mein Herz zu neuer Lieb' entzunden,

Hast mich in eine bessere Welt entrückt—

In eine bessere Welt entrückt.

 

To The Arts

 

O blessed art, in how many hours of greyness,

When life's wildness oppressed me,

Did you re-kindle my heart to new love,

And removed me to better spheres—

Removed to better spheres.

 

The above song by Franz Schubert aptly describes what the art of meditative contemplation has done and is doing for me.

I would say that it really depends on the person & their own frame of reference. 

Some prayer may be meditative for some people.

Some meditation may be prayerful for some people.

I don't think there's a definitive answer.

Does it matter?  I suppose to some ... who like things to be definitive and scientifically "proven" it may be necessary to differentiate.  To me, making a distinction is not particularly important.

 

 To me meditation and prayer are different. Meditation is concentrated and collected thought on a particular subject or event(ie meditation on the crucifixation of Christ, or his resurrection ). In some meditation one uses the imagnitative faculties to put oneself into the event or subject under consideration. Meditation for me leads to prayer, the dialogue or mutual presence between the soul and God. Thats why if one is doing a meditation and one feels inspired to prayer one should leave the meditation and move into the prayer. For a lot of people meditation now conjures up notions of eastern meditation which is different then Christian meditation and prayer although not necessarily incompatible with it.  I think what is called "centering prayer" is probably more meditation or aquired contemplation. It can lead to infused contemplative prayer. 

Meditation is one form of prayer for Christians. Meditation also belongs to  several other religions, including Hinduism and Buddhism, where it serves other purposes. It also belongs to other species, Vulcans & Klingons for starters. It is universal.

A helpful Christian approach to meditation is through the work of the Benedictine monk John Main who lived in Montreal. www.wccm.org

Thanks, Corolla, for your response

Obviously, regarding this matter: we are on the same page.

==========================================

ABOUT MEDITATION--I offer the following just for your information. Take a look

http://www.meditationsociety.com/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation

http://skepdic.com/tm.html

========================

OVER ALL VIEW:

http://www.google.com/cse?q=prayer+and+meditation&cx=partner-pub-7585308...

 

BTW, I was at a presentation of the late "giggling guru" in the winter of 1964. I was not amused, or impressed.

 

Intuitively, I refused to pay $75.00 for something--a so called secret mantra--which I,  later, found out was available, for free.

 

BTW, for tradeBux--that is, be willing to do someone else a favour--I will give anyone who requests it your "secret" mantra. Your laughing guru!

Thanks RevKing for posting the interesting website links.  I've taken a preliminary look & will explore them more fully when more time is available. 

 

I have a friend, who is among other things an artist & a yoga teacher, who has been meditating daily for many years & has made various trips to distant places to study with noted masters.  He would definitely not describe himself as religious (having been raised Italian RC), and I don't think he would consider his meditation to be 'prayer', but more a seeking of enlightenment - I shall haev to pose this question to him.   A few year back, he journeyed to northern India - stayed in a remote cave with some monks for 10 days of silent meditation - quite an experience.

Recently, I read an essay which raised the question: What is the point of prayer?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This question reminded me that, decades ago, as a newly ordained minister I was having a problem understanding the nature and function of prayer. Because of this, I decided to make the attempt to pray about praying. This idea came to me--perhaps from G0D. It came in the form of a brief comment and a question:

An inner voice--the Spirit within?--said to me: Instead of giving G0D a list of all the awful things that are going on in the world and in the lives of people--things about which G0D is already aware--and telling him what you want to see happen, why don't you make a brief comment to begin the connection, then communicate by asking a few questions? And don't forget to ask: What are the best solutions? Then contemplate and wait and see what results you get.

Looking back I seem to remember that is what I did.

I started by admitting to myself, and to the god I assumed was supposed to be listening to me how I felt about the act of praying. In a kind of internal conversation I said: For me the act of praying is not one of my favourite acts. I can't remember ever having heard an exciting and interesting so-called long prayer, or pastoral prayer--where the minister goes over the same list of things he went over last Sunday.

This was so, no matter whether they were ones read from a book of well-written prayers, written by myself, or extemporaneous. I found pastoral prayers boring to listen to and difficult to offer.

G0D AS AN ACRONYM
Then I asked G0D, why is this so? And, is there a solution to this problem? Then I simply waited ... [BTW, note that, using the form of an acronym, I now spell the divine name with caps. In this acronym, instead of the letter 'O' I use the numeral 0, zero. For me, this acronym means: out of the no-thing comes goodness, order and design. I sometimes use GØD. Ø is the mathematical symbol, null--the set without numbers.]

I can't remember exactly when it happened, but around that time--I think I was in Pointe Claire, near Montreal, Quebec--I became very interested in the healing miracles of Jesus. Beginning with his instructions to his disciples when he assigned them to go on their first mission--Matthew 10:1-15; Mark 6:7-13 and Luke 9:1-6--I decided to do a series of sermons on that mission and on his emphasis on healing and the rooting out of evil--the cause of pain and suffering.

Following one of my sermons, a woman from my congregation approached me and gave me a book: PRAYER CAN CHANGE YOUR LIFE-- --Experiments and techniques in Prayer Therapy (1957). It is by Dr. William R. Parker, who was then a professor of psychology, with more than a passing interest in religion, at the University of Redlands in California. A WW 2 veteran, he found himself on the verge of a mysterious nervous breakdown which refused to go away until he began to practice a serious kind of praying . The book, which he wrote with the help Elaine St. Johns, a friend and writer, is about the healing power of G0D as love in and through all that is. It is also about a positive and affirming way of tuning into, connecting and communing with--in the constant now--the source all abundance. No more is it necessary to beg for mercy and help from a reluctant god.

CONNECTIVE, COMMUNICATIVE AND CONTEMPLATIVE COMMUNION WITH G0D AND ALL THAT IS
================================================
This book changed my understanding of the nature and function of prayer. Like most people, perhaps, I used to think of prayer as a form of begging--something that one has to do only in moments of desperate need--and I resented the idea of being a beggar. In those early years I thought a lot about prayer and read some not-all-that-helpful books about it, but, because I never really felt comfortable with the practice, I seldom did so privately. I kept wondering: why is it that I find most public prayers, including my own, boring, unattractive and, therefore, difficult? As a minister, I did it in public because it was the expected thing to do. By the way, praying was the only part of my ministry that I did not enjoy doing. 

While reading Dr. Parker's most interesting book I started mentioning it in my sermons. Then I did a series of sermons on it. When I was finished the book and the series of sermons, several church members approached and asked: "Why don't you do a series of classes on prayer on a Sunday evening?" I was delighted and a small committee was formed to spread the word to every family in the church. We agreed to call the classes PRAYER THERAPY. Nearly forty people showed up for that first series.

To my delight, no sooner did one series end, after a break, another was started. Word of mouth,  of those who had taken the classes, did the job. This time, not just church members came. People came from all over. Some belonged to other Christian religions; some to non-Christian religions, and some were not even connected with any religion. In one form or another, this series grew to the point where it got a wide media attention, including radio, TV, and even a front page story in the Toronto Star. I am delighted to report that this series--later called PNEUMATOLOGY--the study of the Holy Spirit and how it heals us physically, mentally and spiritually--went on for the rest of my ministry.

The basic concept of Pneumatology is this: We do not need to pleas with a reluctant god to heal us. All we need to do is to affirm that we are, right NOW, in this present moment, already, we are connected with and in the constant flow of G0D as abundance. Unless you feel the need to and are comfortable with it, there is no longer any need to force yourself to set aside special times for prayer any more than you need to do that for all the joyful functions of life--breathing, eating, resting, sleeping whatever.

Prayer became what I now like to call connective, communicative and contemplative meditation--the asking, or praying, part is incidental. Interestingly, in the Aramaic--the language of Jesus--the word for prayer literally means to tune into, or to connect with. It does not mean to beg. This new understanding also changed the focus on my ministry.

PNEUMATOLOGY--The Healing Power of the Holy and Loving Spirit of G0D
========================================================
About Pneumatology: Not long after I started using this "new" word, which I had concocted out of the Greek, I soon discovered that it is not new at all. My wife, getting ready to go back to teaching, purchased a two volume dictionary. I knew that the words 'pneumonia' and 'pneumatic' are already in the dictionary. So I decided to check and see if there were any other words with the same prefix. Immediately, I came upon the word 'pneuma' defined as the Greek for 'spirit'. Then, further down was the word 'pneumatology' with approximately the meaning I had given it. See the definition in World Book Dictionary. Interestingly, World Book Dictionary also points out that pneumatology is an archaic term for psychology.

This inspired me to go back and read, carefully, the book PSYCHOLOGY, RELIGION AND HEALING, by the British minister, psychologist, Leslie D. Weatherhead, who was really a pneumatologist.

In his church, City Temple, London, England, in cooperation with doctors and others in the healing arts, he opened a clinic for the practice of physical, mental and spiritual healing.

In my opinion, every community needs such a healing centre, where G0D, as the Holy Spirit (Pneuma) is vitally present, and where the healing power of connective, communicative and meditative prayer is applied to the needs of the body, mind and spirit--as Paul points out in 1 Thess. 5:23. It is about working to bring about pneuma-psycho-somatic health for the whole person.

--
Say Hello here:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=-3&i...73&l=ebcae3bf23

 

I just wanted to tell you that a couple of months have gone by, and I have found ego-mind wandering very helpful. Thank you.

All of my prayers are contemplative/meditative, or just contemplation or meditation: attempts to link myself with the divine.

 

Although I feel that we are innately linked with God, we have severed the link, and must re-establish it, again and again.

For quite a while I thought I invented prayer.

I was 5 (0r 6)...

And it was close to Christmas.

I remember the day clearly and think of it often.

Crystal-clealy, after 75 years...

My family were not church goers...my grandfather forbade any family discussion of politics or religion.

That day I walked out to the backyard, stood next to a tree, was entirely alone and

I said (aloud) "God, I don't know if you exist or not -- but if on Christmas you give me a green  tricycle --I will believe in you."

Tears came to my eyes now, recollecting what happened. Somewhere, in the sky, I felt God smile.  I felt it. I feel it now. Warm, friendly s m i l e. 

Christmas morning. A tricycle. GREEN.

I chuckle at what I am about to type: He kept  His part of the bargan.

And so have I.

(I don't recall ever using the tricycle. )

Or asking ever again for anything  ... I couldn't ask for anything better. I don't think I ever wanted anything as badly as I wanted a tricycle. I got much more. An early handle on The Great Assumption. (Sigh) I know the will of God is incomprehenable to the human mind...bla bla bla....and prayer should not be requests (Or 'bargins!) bla bla bla...

Now I love theology and the interesting discussions in here, I'm learning a lot....

But it ain't nuthin' like The Smile....

(Am I losing karma-points by being smug?? Hmmmm.) I have never told this to anyone.

 

 

.

 

Thank you Genius. Write it down somewhere for your family.

CH, some people are like the early birds, they feel up and at their best in the early morning. Bless them, generally speaking I am the opposite. I am more like a night hawk, or a cat. I feel sleepy after I eat. After a sleep, unless I discipline myself otherswise, I can write into the wee small hours of the morning.

 

Generally speaking, over the years I have had to work at getting my body and mind in the fully alert state and feeling up, especially if it is early in the morning. Now that I am older, I do tend to wake early.

 

The more I learn about the nature and role of the ego, and how it wants to be the focus of all attention, the more I am convinced that the best way to treat it is as follows: I simply choose to observe it, watch it, and without any kind of judgementalism, talk to it as I would to a child for whom I care a lot--one who needs help in growing into maturity. 

 

I say something like the following to it:

 

"I  know that you feel what you feel when you feel it, and that you want me, and others, to feel it too. You want me to share your pain and your pleasures and pay attention to you to the exclusion of others.You want me to let you do what you want to do when you want to do it.

 

"However, I want to remind you that too much freedom can be dangerous for all concerned. It can destroy real happiness. Therefore, until we all become more and more mature, I will keep an eye on you and make sure you are safe.

 

"The more you and I become at one with all that is--the very source of all loving Being (what I call G0D)--including the world and others on it, the safer and happier we will all be, physically, mentally and spiritually."

 

ALL KINDS OF QUESTIONS

Keep in mind that I make no pretense that I have all things under control; that I understand the mystery of what it means to be a person. Therefore, I begin the day with many questions.

Interestingly the word 'person' comes from the Latin, per sonne--literally meaning to sound through a mask. As personalities, we all wear our masks--of comedy, trajedy, boredom, whatever--on the stage of life.

 

THE VALUE OF EXERCISE

Because I have never had a weight problem; and I have always been active in sports, in camping, gardening and other activities I never thought it necessary to do any kind of formal exercise. Though, in my pneumatology classes, I did mention tai chi and yoga. I even recommended them for those with physical problems and were not agile enough to do the more athletic and body-building kind of exercises. Maybe in doing so I sowed the seed from which I later benefitted.

 

For example,  when my wife and I retired, and the children were on their own, I heard some talks on how the right kind of exercise can help us all grow old gracefully.  At this point I decided to look into what we ought to do about exercise.

 

Interestingly, it was our daughter who introduced her mother and I to the benefit of tai chi and yoga, which she did every day. It happened on one of our visits to her floating home. Her suggestion that it could be of value and a help to seniors fitted right in with my life-long interest in developing spirituality, of which, with the help of meditation and healthy nutrition, I was already an advocate.

 

Not long after that, I was browsing through some books I have in my library, which I knew I had not read. I reached up and as if guided by an invisible hand, the following book, written in 1985, came right into my hand: The Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth written by Peter Kelder. The author, about whom little is known, tells the story of a British soldier--a major Bradford, who had been in Tibet.

 

When I opened the book, there was a thank-you note to the effect that it was given to me as a gift by an appreciative member of one of the last classes in pneumatology, which I gave just before I retired.

 

The book contained an exercise program which has been used by Tibetan monks for centuries. This book states that many have lived longer than most can imagine by following the program often called the "Five Tibetan Rites"

http://www.mkprojects.com/pf_TibetanRites.htm

BTW, you and I are a very unique human beings. Surely, if every snowflake is unique, each human being is, right?

Each of us, in harmony with G0D, is free to use our imaginations to do what is best for us, as individuals. If you find it difficult to do the spins, don't. Also, feel free, as I have done, to add other moves which will help you be at one with gravity.

Here's an idea: Let's develop the ten? Or is it eleven? Canadian Rites--one for each of the provinces and territories of Canada. How many would that be?

And this is interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Tibetan_Rites

The story telling here leaves all kinds of opportunity for telling stories.

I felt a twinge of sadness on reading this post. Every Christmas, for about seven years, I prayed for a bike, which I never got.

With the benefit of hindsight, this wasn't so bad. It taught me a valuable lesson, to cope with disappointment and rejoice in what "presents" life gave me.

To this day, I don't believe in praying for what I want, because I know it doesn't work that way. These days I pray for a sense of connection and the knowledge that God shares my life with me.

Hi RevKing,

If you can manage to simply choose to observe and watch your ego - then it's no longer a problem to you.

The problem, for a lot of us, is that under the influence of intense emotion (fear, anger, etc.) we don't seem to have the luxury of "observing" ourselves.

Any ideas?

As you seem to be doing now: Simply making the choice to do so--which is all I did--is a good beginning. 

Have you checked out Eckert Tolle's work?

http://www.eckharttolle.com/eckharttolle

Consider Jesus' teaching on prayer in Matthew 6 [NRSV].

Clearly we can study the words of this prayer, we can meditate on the words of this prayer, or we can pray the words of this prayer. To me these are 3 different activities, even when they involve the same words. I believe all 3 activities are important.

 

When we pray this prayer we are making specific requests of God. We are "standing up" for these requests and expecting God to respond to them. This is not required when we study or meditate on them. This seems to be one basic difference between prayer and meditation, though I am sure we could fine others. (It would be best if we had humility, faith and a good sense of God's will before making such requests, but God has graciously not made these prerequisities.)

 

Yes. You have to out grow the 'gimmie' part...

It's a private ...uh...myth of mine...God smiling at the impertenance  of a little boy :-)

I amuse me...making a 'pact' wih God...:-)

Hey, too bad about yer bicycle :-)

Agape!

 

God was right not to let me have that bike. I once "borrowed" a schoolfriend's bike, only to break my arm. In my 50's I decided to try and ride a bike again, and managed to break a leg this time.

I've learnt my lesson - I won't attempt to ride a bike again!!  

Welcome, Ran. You offer some valuable thoughts.

Interestingly, keep in mind that,in the semitic languages, there is no future tense like we have. Therefore ,"Your kingdom come"--as if to infer that it is in the future, could be translated: "Your kingdom comes ..." now.

****************************

To my atheist friends, who equate nature with god, I recently wrote:

 

Rev. LGK: your quote:

 

Be aware of the ego, and beware. It loves, to mediprate--that is, to chatter, to prattle, to talk childishly and foolishly.

 

Good post again! 

 

Mediprate?  Its what I do best but I never had a name for it before  .

{quote}

Hi RevKing,

If you can manage to simply choose to observe and watch your ego - then it's no longer a problem to you.

The problem, for a lot of us, is that under the influence of intense emotion (fear, anger, etc.) we don't seem to have the luxury of "observing" ourselves.

Any ideas?

[/quote]

I also experience a great deal of fear, anger and aguish.   I often frind myself bargininng or scolding god..  Very childish.  When I was in hospital for a year, for a failed operation I would go to the chapoel and scream "Why? Why? Why?  Not just why me but why anyone.  Why was there so much suffering.  The amazing thing was I was able to go back to my ward much calmer, much more able to deal with the situation more graciously rather then with anger,

I believe we are transformed by grace by working trough anger, frustation, fear and anguish.  This is what I see in the psalms/.  God to me is Whole, connection and grace,  By expressinng my negativity to God, to the unniverse, but not other people, I'm able tto let go of it and be more gracious.

Stardust:

Now you are ready to medipray--that is think, contemplate and ask intelligent questions--no matter if they are dumb--like a mature child usually does, and then listen, again --that is, medi, again!!!  Let the    in  and    at yourself!!!

 

When I was in the pastorate, with permission of the session, I began using MEDIPRAYERS--instead of the long-winded pastoral prayers--that was in the early 1970's.

The organist played soft music in the background, and sometimes there was a pause when the choir, or soloists, sang appropriate words and music.

The congregation went to sleep during the sermon--and everyone had a good time. I told them not to worry, the ushers knew where they kept their wallets.

But seriously, I actually told people: Do not be afraid to go to sleep in church. I have often wondered: Why don't we remove the pews and replace them with a moveable and relaxing kind of chairs, perhaps placed around small round tables seating no more than six, designed to encourage conversation.

mgf50

You mean you  felt like this    and this  ,   and   and then this happened     and you did this, to yourself    and then you let your  rage   out.  This      came on, and this     mended and you felt much better, eh?

Hey, we need a emoticon for EGO.  This   or ? Any suggestions?

Bernini's  "The agony and the Estacy comes to mind"  The angel piiercing the heart of Saint Teresa.  I believe "The Dark Night of the SSoul" is part of prayer.  We are only transformed when we work through negative emotions and expedrience. 

Interesting thoughts:

======================
Andy Rooney and  Prayer

Andy Rooney says: 

I don't believe in Santa  Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a  Ho-Ho-Ho song in December.  I don't agree with Darwin ,  but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school  teacher taught his Theory of Evolution. 

Life, liberty or your pursuit  of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a  30-second prayer before a football game. So what's the big  deal?  

 

It's not like somebody is up there reading the  entire Book of Acts.  They're just talking to a God they  believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on  the field and the fans going home from the game. 

But it's a Christian prayer,  some will argue.

Yes, and this is the United  States of America and Canada, a country founded on Christian principles.  According to our very own phone book, Christian churches  outnumber all others better than 200-to-1.  So what would  you expect -- somebody chanting Hare Krishna? 

If I went to a football game  in Jerusalem , I  would expect to hear a Jewish  prayer. 

If I went to a soccer game in   Baghdad , I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer. 

If I went to a ping pong  match in China ,  I would expect to hear someone pray to  Buddha. 

And I wouldn't be  offended.   It  wouldn't bother me one bit.

When in Rome  .....

But  what about the atheists? Is another  argument.

What about them? Nobody  is asking them to be baptized.  We're not going to pass  the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds.   If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of  ear plugs.  Go to the bathroom.  Visit the  concession stand.  Call your lawyer! 

Unfortunately, one or two  will make that call.  One or two will tell thousands what  they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a  football game is going to shake the world's  foundations.

Christians are just sick and  tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of  all our rights.  Our parents and grandparents taught us  to pray before eating, to pray before we go to  sleep. Our  Bible tells us to pray without ceasing.  Now a handful of  people and their lawyers are telling us to cease  praying. 

God, help us.  And if  that last sentence offends you, well, just sue  me.

The  silent majority has been silent too long.  It's time we  tell that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard that  the vast majority doesn't care what they want.  It is  time that the majority rules!   It's time we tell them, "You don't have to pray; you  don't have to say the Pledge of Allegiance; you don't have to  believe in God or attend services that honor Him.  That  is your right, and we will honor your right; but by golly, you are no longer going to take our rights away.  We are fighting back, and we WILL WIN!"

God bless us one and all...Especially those who denounce Him, God  bless America and Canada, despite all our faults  We are still the  greatest nations of all. God  bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray.

Are atheists like Athenians ... gathered so many words they now have no cares? That is almost pathelogical from one angle; then they'd call the observer psychologically un-balanced like a stick in the riva ... ain't that a 'elleva disturbance for one trying to meditate on the meaning of IT all? That would be like understanding ... thinking process when all the passionate actions are over. Then I've been told deep thinking was not prayer, meditation, or contemplation ... these are just blackout periods when you should do what authority demands ... without thought!

 

Then pray tell why did Christ say to go into that dark little closet and carry some Light with ye ... against the dark winds ... pneus? That is the desire that is always common sense ... like Jaw'n ... expansive words on spiritual encounters in the dark veil ... Canaan realm ... that's like a Big Bang, an Echo (Eg'o; Cyrillic accent) or a wail across the divide of someone who needs assistance. One should always carry a wee bit of whine ... for otherwise ... no one would know you exist and walk all over you like a latent thing ... sometimes referred to as supernatural to someone that leans on the passions alone ... without a clue to the nature of the binding fabrication as sewn/sown .. cedes of God like muse tardy ... followers of light ... Black Hole absorbers ... wei minds the aleifs sae ... like elle afeint in the Rheumination ... Jaw'n over misunderstood words ...

 

The sole travels onward under the weight of all that he doesn't know .. because of primal refusal of the offering ... duped as is? They can't see the signs of the soul ... blowing in the winds as phone ET-IX ... in the crossing High-bred yeast I say for waking the psyche ... Eris'n fours! Brutal Romans hate a whetted thinker ... they'll burn them every chance they get ... J' loose Gods! Saint El Moes Pyre? IT sa Phaere stretch ... exercising the imaginationon how to get arround difficult emotions: Fear, anger, hate, etc ...

 

The Joe-i 've dividing the waters ... devination, or deseminating th'aughts? Ponder the base third and a forth will be coming ... that's the Dan's when observed on the fringe! Just another odd perspective ... when gathered ... another vision occurs ... occult to those that don't see IT ... and terror ensues: "Hei Gnoes more than Meis!" Don't sweat the small stuff ... we know little in the 'hole expanse ... twinned image of God in reciprocation for those who didn't wish to know ... pure illusion in the filtering process in the dark ... like deep waters under the desert Dan ... cool clear and flowing like phloe-gest-Ion ... colourless stuffing of the dark stone ... Moses knew!

I don't think much of Andy Rooney's diatribe. "God bless our service men who are fighting to protect out right to pray" makes me sick!

 

Meditation or meditative prayer can be powerfully unitive and transformative. The meditative experience itself speaks for itself. If we interpret it as an expereince of God, fine. If we interpret it as a unitive or transformative experience, great. Meditative, mystical or spiritual experience is a pure, unconceptualized expereince of reality, which can be interpreted in the terms of any religion, or in the terms of secular philosophy, without losing any of its profoundness. The compelling Truth is in the experience itself, not in any interpretation thereof. The interpretations are self-created and artistic. They depend entirely on our personal, interpretive framework and that of our religion and culture.

 

In meditation, it is the meditative experience that matters, not the interpretation. And the experience is almost always of a unitive or transcendental nature. This is experiential spirituality, which is at the root of all doctrinal spirtuality. Once we experience the meditative reality, we realize that there can be various interpretations, and that the experience itself is what ultimately matters.

 

I think we'd all do well take a step back from literalism, dogmatism and absolutism of any kind, and discover or re-discover the pure experience of reality in meditation.

Andy Rooney is just regurgitating the same old crap fundies have been using for years to try to maintain their religious monopoly at the expense of freedom.

 

Like them, he doesn't have the slightest clue of what "rights" are, and what his responsibilities are to help maintain those rights.

 

Like them, he needs to invent persecution to maintain the illusion and delusion of godliness.

 

I don't take him particularly seriously.

 Meditation leads me and stills me; prayer (listening prayer) stills me and sustains me. 

Both are in the context of the challenges of the teachings of Jesus and my daily experience of life.

Together, the whole of it gives me energy, strengthen, interest and invigorate me.

IN my particular practice, prayer is more of a conversation, and meditation is more of a journey.

 

The two are not exclusive, however. Many of my journeys are made with God as a companion, and many of my conversations involve getting directions for the journey.

 Hi Arminius

 

Re Andy Rooney:

 

God  bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray.

 

I think he means they are fighting for our  democracy which includes the right to pray?  I'm not up to date  on Andy Rooney or the  recent news. Perhaps there have been some issues or controversery in the U.S. about prayers at football games  that I missed since he says :

 

Now a handful of  people and their lawyers are telling us to cease  praying. 

 

Does anyone know what happened?

 

 

{[Witch: I'm not sure I understand what you mean? Don't we have the right to pray?  Do you think its ignorant if a verbal prayer was offered at a football game? I don't know the context of it or the scenario.}

 

Of course you have the right to pray, and more importantly to Americans like Rooney, He also has the right to pray. He always has and probably always will. His right to pray has never been curtailed, trod upon, or even been threathened.

 

What has happened is that people have been stopped from forcing children to pray in schools, at football games, and people are no longer subjected to unwanted public participation in prayer.

 

The fundies like Andy Rooney like to pretend that curtailing their ability to abrogate the rights of other people is actually the government telling them they can't pray. It's patently ridiculous, and it's an outright lie (in the correct sense of the word), and it's blatant false witness (which is strange considering how much they pretend the 10Cs are important to them).

 

Still, it sounds really, really good when you're preaching to the religious reich choir, who don't really seem to care whether it's true or not.

 Wait..........I thought Andy Rooney was an atheist.  He was even awarded the Emperor Has No Clothes Award from the Freedom From Religion Foundation in 2001.

Looks like you're right CF.

 

Which makes me wonder, why is an atheist regurgitating fundie prayer crap?

 

Do we know if this is actually an article by Andy Rooney?

Update:

 

OK checked Snopes. Apparently it's another one of those email hoax things. Andy Rooney didn't write it at all. it was written by a guy who was ticked off at the removal of state-led Christian prayer at students football games.

 

Seems like it was later attributed to Andy Rooney in a lame attempt to lend it credibility, perhaps in the vein of "See, this Atheist thinks it's OK to make your kids pray to my God"

 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/prayer.asp