Think "natural morality". Humans don't have the market cornered on what is good or bad.

 

LL&P(with the bigger picture)

Spock

If I think something is wrong and some part of my religion tells me it's right, or vice versa, I pray about it. I find religion and spirituality to be two very different things.

I look at both sides and then add some common sense to the issue.  Morality is in part cultural.

 

Shalom

Mate

I don't think Christ is really about a code of laws written on a rock. His two commandments were to love your neighbour and love your God. He came to earth criticising religious people for focusing on legalism and showing no love.

 

I think being a good christian is just be nice to people.

 

That's just being a good person.  No christianity required.

 

 

Isn't that like asking a car dealer if you need a new car?

My morality is shaped by my feeling of at-one-ment with everyone and everything.

 

I agree, you don't need christianity to be a good person. Christianity is often very hypocritical and religion-y, and I don't think that's really what Christ wanted. Certainly a lot of Christians are meaner than regular people. It's a shame.

I find lots of times my religious ideas of right and wrong clash with cultural values - for instance I don't buy lotto tickets or play VLTs.  Many of my friends do.  I try not to shop on Sundays because I think that often the service people are being exploited.  I put emphasis on the spiritual side of special days (ie Christmas, Easter) rather than on the commercial.  I try to avoid racist jokes that some people find amusing.

 

I also sometimes find my religious ideals in conflict with current political thinking - for instance I am much more concerned with justice issues than I am with crime and punishment or law and order.  I think protecting the most volunerable in our society is more important than lowering taxes.  I think supporting local farmers and small businesses is more important than lower prices from imported goods. 

 

 

In 1 Cor 6:12 Paul writes that "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are beneficial."All things are lawful for me," but I will not be dominated by anything."

 

I also  believe that in the Didache it says something to the effect that if one Christian does not like what another one does then the one who doesn't like it should not do it.

 

Shalom

Mate

Biblical morality is technically cultural morality, since Christianity is a part of our culture. The Bible is not the be all end all of morality. You really don't have to put it on some sort of pedistal.

KR

 

Putting it on a pedistal is to make it an object of idolatry as is taking the attitude that I and I alone have the correct way.

 

Shalom

Mate

Exactly Mate. The Bible deserves the same level of moral respect as any other text.

KR

 

As far as I can see "The word of God" rightly belongs to only One, the "Word made flesh.  It does not belong to a book.  This is not to deny that God speaks to us through the Bible if one so believes but rightly puts the Bible where it belongs.

 

Shalom

Mate

Sometimes religious ideals (supported by your interpretation of the Bible) might put you in direct conflict with the prevailing culture or even with the law of the country.   Consciencious objectors were reviled during the wars - draft dodgers are breaking the law. 

Also, if one claims to follow biblical morality, you must be very careful because some biblical morality is either frowned upon or actually illegal today.

 

Should a Christian policeman protect an abortion clinic?

 

LL&P

Spock

Spock - I don't see why not.  In fact I think it would be her duty.  She should also protect the Christian women (and others) who work at the clinic or are seeking its services. 

 

By the way - the UCC is pro-choice.

 

Let be be clearer.... Should a Christian policeman refuse to protect an abortion clinic if abortion is morally wrong for him. ?

 

 

LL&P

Spock

Hi Spock - I realized later that was probably what you meant.  I think that if a person honestly believes that what he is doing is wrong, then he shouldn't do it.  That might mean asking to be transferred to another position.  Or it might mean quitting his job or being fired for refusing to do it.   That might apply to a policeman protecting an abortion clinic, a medical person performing an abortion, a teacher teaching certain things about human sexuality (or science), an accountant being asked to make adjustments to the company books, a factory worker discovering that the do-dad he is assembling is part of a 'weapon of mass distruction'.  If you cannot in good conscience meet the requirements of your job - then ask to be transferred - if that isn't possible either quit or refuse to do the job and be terminated.   Whether I would have the courage to do so - or whether I could somehow justify hanging on to my job even if it meant compromising my standards - I don't know.

 

I know that once I worked for a financial institution where we counselled people who seemed to me to be fairly well-to-do on how to legally avoid paying income taxes on a large portion of their income - finding loopholes for people with investment income that would not be available for people working 8 to 5 for a wage or salary.  I sometimes felt uncomfortable about it but I never quit.  It didn't seem to bother anyone else in my department.

I think that this applies to whether your idea of right and wrong comes from your religious beliefs or from some other set of ethics or sense of right and wrong.

Yep, instead of going to people who have taught lessons about the car dealer, or read books about the car dealer, I go to the car dealer him/herself.

Let be be clearer.... Should a Christian policeman refuse to protect an abortion clinic if abortion is morally wrong for him. ?

 

No, I think that is the policeman's job. It is like the case in Sask. where a  Christian marriage commissioner refused to officiate at a same- sex marriage. That was his job, what he was getting paid for. The courts found in favour of the couple and the commissioner quit