My UU fellowship often uses that Sunday to focus on contemporary peace and justice issues rather than on simply remembering the past. On learning from history rather simply commemorating it, if you like.

Mendalla

Hi graeme,

I know that we have discussed Remembrance services in the past.

I have not yet looked ahead to see what texts are available to me to preach from on November 11, 2012 but I can take a quick peek.

Ruth 3:  1-5; 4:  13-17  Doesn't seem to relate to the matter of Remembrance.

Psalm 127  This one can be used effectively and the quiver imagery is martial.

Hebrews 9:  24-28  The line that reads, "blood that isn't his" makes a good jumping point.

Mark12:  38-44  The parable of the widows mite also provides a nice backdrop.

All the lections for the day provide one with the opportunity to contrast the fruitlessness of war against the aims of God and as such allow for the deliberate comparison between the kingdoms of this world and how they operate against the kingdom to come and what it requires of its citizens.

For the record I have never preached on the necessity of war at a Rememberance day service.  Quite often I lift up Jesus' words from John 15 "Greater love has no man than this that a man would lay his life down for his friend" and compare it with the perversity of the word that demands there is no greater service than to send our youth abroad to take life for an ideology.

I don't know how politicians hear that kind of comment.  Most I've run into seem to have the smarts to know that you don't attack the minister the legion has invited to lead the service even if you don't agree with the message they bring.

The veterans receive it warmly.

I also reiterate the "never again" aspirations behind the armistce and compare that with the "let's kill for freedom" speeches of those who send our soldiers off to war.

And of course along the way you can ask questions which challenge the underlying metality of why we are involved with what we are involved in.  Even if answers cannot be readily found I've never known a serviceman who disliked the attempt to find a reason for his being asked to do what he was being asked to do that isn't part of the puppetry of propaganda.

Grace and peace to you.

John

"Why war is never really rational"

"The sacred rules of war"

Thank you for those citataions, revJohn.

In some experience of public controversies over this sort of issue, I have learned that veterans usually take a less romantic view of war than do the politicians who claim to speak for them.

I mostly emphasize the costs of war, and the need to hold governments accountable when they make the decision to send soldiers off to fight a war.

Quite right. that's why I so much dislike Nov. 11. It's used as an occasion for  us and and our governments to avoid being accountable for what we did - and, more obnoxiously to avoid it by hiding it with self-righteous bleating about how much we thank those who served.

The costs of war ...

Capital ... profit ...

Why remember? Perhaps we would learn something and that is often a denied subject ... too deep for common chewing over ... like Jah'n ... metaphorical entails ...

Speaking as a Veteran...

When you remember us, don't remember us for why we went. Don't sew political labels on our backs, or political reasons on our gravestones. We have enough of our own burdens in that regard.

By all means do debate the politics, the stupidity, the reasons, the fallcies, the multitude of ridiculous and sane reasons that this war or that was fought over, but please don't involve us.

When you remember us, remember that we signed away our lives, willingly; we chose to have no choice; we chose to be ready to step up and do the job, without the luxury of debate or hindsight.

I was a young soldier once, and on one of my tours I was assisting in refugee evacuation from a war zone. Our job was to keep the innocent civilians safe from the people who wanted them dead, until they could reach safety. There was a woman who went into labour on the road, and could not move further. There was no time to load her into the APC to get her out of there, and we were under threat of sniper fire and the agressor battalions were just over the hill and moving in. I was assigned to guard her, and the medic while he delivered the baby and got them on a truck across the border. One soldier was all our company commander could spare, and I was it.

In reality, I don't know how much I could have done, one young soldier with a rifle. I didn't even care at that moment whether I was justified in being over there, or whether I should have been sent to interfere in another countries politics, or whatever. Al I knew at that moment was that an innocent mother and child were depending on me, and I was going to see Hell and kicks it's ass before anyone would harm them.

In the end the baby was born, healthy and squalling, and the little family was loaded onto a supply truck and carted off to safety, and I returned to my Platoon; just another day in the life of a young soldier. I didn't speak her language so I don't know exactly what she said, but before she got into the truck she kissed me on the cheek, and showed me the baby.

Every soldier in my Platoon had at least one story like that. It is the nature of being a soldier, and especially a Canadian soldier, that we all end up with a strange mixture of those memories which we need to to keep, and those which we cannot be rid of.

So please, when you remember us, remember us, and not the politics.

Well put Witch. It is right to remember the horror of war and the courage of the people who were involved.

I used to hate Remembrance Day because it seemed to be celebrating war.  I don't know if the Remembrance Day services changed as I got older or if I just started to see things differently, but I started to see it as a time to remember sacrifices made and lives lost instead of a celebration of past victories.  It is my hope that by remembering war, we will remeber why we should strive to avoid it in the future, and only get involved in conflicts for good, nobel reasons like protecting people, rather than as a political move for our own gain.  

A few years ago it also occurred to me that Remembrance Day is one of the only "holidays" that is recognized in Canada in Canadian schools.  In trying to be respectful to the diversity in our country, schools either try to celebrate everything or they celebrate nothing.  Remembrance Day, by virtue of being non-religious, is seen as a day for everyone to remember.  Of course, the services themselves often focus on Canadian "victories" again...often a slap in the face to many immigrant children whose parents or grandparents were on the other side of the conflicts involved.  I'd like to see a more diverse service that allows everyone to remember the horrors of war without having to choose sides.

Hey folks, it's okay to have conflicting thoughts on any subject, IMO.

Perhaps if we want to make our world a better place, rather than pontificate simply on what is right or what is wrong, we first need to acknowledge our conflicting emotions?

It can be a bridge to understanding our fellow humans -  and has the potential to lead to conflict resolution........

Don't buy the "sitting on the fence" line - it's peddled by both sides of polarisers and is a recipe for escalation of any conflict.

Witch - I've never seen it expressed better.

We give thanks for the service the men and women like Witch have done, often without appreciation or respect they deserve. We also name the damage that conflict does to everyone. Our church lives it every week. We host several mental health programs for veterans and the staff include me in discussions where the issues may have a spiritual dimension... which is often.