Interesting, what kind of serious questions came up?

 

Edit: I didn"t realize you provided a video, (which I have since watched), that explained what questions you were facing.

Mark Andrews-all your Christian readings are SO OLD. I thought you may have picked more contempory ones.

So to sum up- you liked watching porn sites-you felt wicked when you did-that led you to question whether there really was a hell?

 

Hi Mark

 

This is a perfect example of what is a double --minded human trying to live in 2 opposing --conflicting worlds ---the Bible warns against this in the book of  James and 2 Peter

 

 

 

I listened to the sermon last night, mark_andrew78 and wanted to sleep on it until I commented, and understand that my comments are intended as constructive criticism.

 

I thought your message was articulate and well presented. The message was well structured, and when you speak of what you believe you're very sincere and passionate. Now, the Unitarian Universalists aren't Christian, of course (although some are more oriented toward Christ than others) so I'm not sure it's appropriate in a denomination that prides itself on its "inclusiveness" and "tolerance" to go into depth on how another faith (Christianity) needs to change. What would be the response if I stood in the pulpit and did the same critique of Unitarian Universalism or Islam or Judaism?

 

So, the basic thing I noted about it is that (with great respect to all my Unitarian Universalist friends, and I do have a few) it left me with the impression that the Unitarian Universalists don't have an "inclusive spirituality" any more than anyone else. They're inclusive of those who agree with them and their basic outlook.

 

How welcome (or, for that matter, how welcomed) would a fundamentalist Christian have felt in that service, for example. Toward fundamentalists, and toward a lot of Christians who wouldn't think of themselves as fundamentalists, that sermon would not have fel welcoming or inclusive. For example, you used a lot of humour, which is fine in a sermon - but most of it was humour at the expense of someone (fundamentalist Christians.) The use of so much humour directed at a particular group to me makes the sermon sound angry toward that group rather than inspiring.

 

Please understand that I'm meaning this to be constructive. I think you could have got your message across in a more positive way without it sounding so dismissive of another faith group. But I do think you're well spoken. Frankly, you sound more like a Christian Universalist than a Unitarian Universalist to me (the two are not the same thing.)

 

Appreciated you sharing the message though. Please take my comments in the spirit in which they were intended.

 

There are Christians in UU'ism, Steven, generally ones like Mark who've fallen out with one or more areas of traditional doctrine. I kept the Christian label for a while after becoming UU myself but eventually dropped it as I explored further and realized it just didn't fit anymore. And, as a general rule, Christian UUs (actually, the term UU Christians is what is normally used) tend to be both unitarian and universalist in their Christianity so still fit the UU label (there is even a subgroup in UU'ism called UU Christian Fellowship). Some do eventually end up back in Christianity (best example I know of is Rev. Felicia Urbanski who was interim minister at my UU fellowship in London and First Unitarian Congregation of Waterloo before being credentialed in the United Church.)

 

On an earlier point in your post, I'm afraid that criticizing the faith we've left behind is a bit of a tradition in UU'ism, a product of being a religion that receives more converts than it has peoples raised in its tradition (at least that's been my experience). I try to avoid it myself because I feel I learned and gained a lot from being raised in the UCCan and because I didn't so much reject that background as move in other directions that suggested moving to UU was appropriate. That said, I know I've done it here at times. My attitude tends to be that I've found a tradition that suits me so why should I expect my former one to change (indeed, I've been known to criticize UCCan folks like Vosper for becoming too "UU" rather than pursuing a progressive approach to Christianity that still keeps God and Christ in the equation).

 

 

This is fair up a to point and its something that I as a UU am sometimes critical of in my own tradition. I believe UU'ism should be about taking the positive approach of living and celebrating our values, not about wasting breath and time attacking faiths that don't share those values. For instance, we were doing same sex marriages long before they could legally be called marriages and I think we can celebrate that without indulging in "fundie bashing". At the same time, I don't see how we can do that and not make a fundamentalist entering our sanctuary at least somewhat uncomfortable and maybe even unwelcome. They are quite likely going to find something to offend them in our services, even if it's just the fact that there's a lesbian in the pulpit or a sermon that advocates a non-Christian point-of-view.

 

Mendalla

 

 

I hope you understand that I wasn't attacking UU'ism. Just really pointing out that everybody who thinks they're "inclusive" are by definition "inclusive" only to a point.

 

Yes, I know self-identified Christians who are UU. Still, I think it's fair to say that the Unitarian Universalist Church does not consider itself Christian.

 

The Universalist Church of America (one of the partners in forming the UU) was a fairly notable Christian universalist (and explicitly trinitarian) church at one time. My own opinion is that it's too bad they formed the UU and essentially gave up their formal link with Christianity, because I think Christian universalism is a perspective that a lot of people would be drawn to. There is the Christian Universalist Association, I know, but it's basically American and is a federation of people & groups from various denominations, none of which are formally supportive of the perspective.

It seems to me that there's a "story" for everyone, whether it's being brought up in a certain faith, having some sort of epiphany, being abused, losing a loved one, losing faith,etc.....even Jesus had a "story". He was raised a Jew but rather than move away from it, didn't he add to it? Perhaps a little disenchanted? So it makes me wonder if we should move away from what we know and instead work at refocusing on what needs to be changed. Ideally it should cause all religions to converge wouldn't you think?

 

Mark it seems to me that Christianity has lost a promising young minister that would have brought some much needed change to those who feel as you do. It wouldn't surprise me if there are many out there that are becoming disenchanted with the fundamentalist approach if only for the reason that they have been prepared to take another leap into another level of understanding. There will always be those who prefer to paint by numbers yet often ignored are those that paint with a wider brush. These are the visionaries and mentors are hard to find.

All this labelling! Faith is a journey… if faith is alive and real, it shifts ever onwards, day by day. Finding comfort zones or boltholes, sanctuaries, a cozy nest or an impregnable fortress is not faith; it's fear of faith.

 

Faith takes us to all sorts of places and is as complicated and dynamic as life itself. In fact, I believe we should look for faith and life grow into one channel of being.

 

That has become my experience and it makes it hard to find any sort of orthodoxy pallatable, or intelligible. We each live our own life. It has its own point, purpose and meaning. And we each have our own journey in faith. We don't choose a life, we live one. We don't choose a faith, we live one. And, when we do that, we have no regrets. 

 

I congratulate Mark-Andrew on having the faith, intelligence an courage to move on… and would encourage him only to keep moving and keep living. Find a fullness of life, and fullness of faith will never be far from you.

 

I understood that. Just expanded on it from a UU perspective.

 

 

No, we do not and should not. Our perspective, while it includes Christian voices, is not and should not be exclusively Christian.

 

I find that liberal/progressive Christianity has a tendency to be implicitly universalist in places without really working through the theology of it. That is, they kind of act as though every person will be saved by God but don't really articulate that as a formal theological position. Certainly, I tended that way long before really knowing about the theology of Grace in a formal way. Like you, I wish there were more explicitly universalist voices in Christianity, especially at the denominational level rather than the individual, so maybe that implicit position could be articulated more formally and clearly.

 

Mendalla

 

PS. to avoid confusion, I use lower case for "unitarian" and "universalist" when referring to the Christian theologies and upper case when referring to UU'ism as a faith group.

 

Is there anything that is all-inclusive about the concept of isolated religious institutions?

 

Perhaps the reationale for Christ teaching in the hills as light incarnation to all that is dark and unknown in closed vessels ... vanity at its best?

 

Don't get me wrong God and Ur other cheek have funny ways ... there are good people tucked away there ... not very well accepted by the truly stoic and stuck on one-thing!

 

Oblivious to the duality or what Romans beat po'folk over the head with ... caduces ... until the Romans didn't understand it themselves ... such is the love of irrational things causes one to think once it passes ... you never see God when right into the fray ... phrei ... phi?

 

The phonetics vary ...

Cadueces .. the rode of Mosaic ... piecing together of all things ... some being stuffed away for later reference ... like past in a time state ... timeless is something else ... where it all comes back on yah ... as a wee piece of disturbance ... sometimes called chaos or in the Hebrew terms ... towns and civilization ... hated as socialistic to the supposedly civilized that have often been freed of the concept ...

 

No. There isn't. The word is overused, badly used and abused. We tend to call ourselves "inclusive" because it makes us feel good about ourselves, not because we really mean it toward those with whom we disagree. What I hear most often (in the UCC, which prides itself on "inclusiveness") is a variation on "we're really inclusive, and to prove it we're going to explain all the things that are wrong with what you believe." (And, in some cases, it's "we're really inclusive - which is why you don't belong here!")

 

Not to mention Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom.

Thanks for your comments, WonderFriends (that sounds like CareBears),

I will respond briefly here and more later. But a couple points:

1. Yes, I admit that it may seem contradictory for a Unitarian to say that he/she is inclusive and tolerant and then deliver a message  like the one I did. I accept this contradiction. Unitarians (plus MANY Christians) can accept that there are other pathways to experiencing the Divine, but fundamentalists can't, and I will speak out against that viewpoint at any chance I get. You're right, fundamentalists probably wouldn't be comfortable with that sermon, I'll give you that. However, I'll also suggest that the number of fundamentalist evangelicals who visit Unitarian Universalists congregations is very very small.

2. Someone suggested that I sounded more like a Christian Universalist than a Unitarian Universalist. Someone else suggested that it's a shame that I didn't stay and be a leader within Christianity.  To this I say that perhaps one day I indeed will again call myself a Christian, and try to play a part in bridging fundamentalism with progressive Christianity. But for now there's too much baggage that comes with the term Christian for me personally.

3. Someone else said that I "liked watching porn and felt wicked and therefore decided not to believe in Hell anymore." This is a huge oversimplification.  There were other doctrinal aspects at play here and leaving Christianity was not just because I was afraid of Hell or liked watching Britney Spears videos.

4. Rev. Steven, thanks for your comments. I think that it is completely fair to talk about/expose some of the injustices/bad theology of another faith from the pulpit. And to answer your question about how Unitarians would feel if someone got up in another faith community and bashed us, well I think we'd respond by just wanting to have coffee, cold cuts and a discussion afterward. 

5. Mendalla: Rev. Felicia and I are friends :)

 

I find it interesting that my story is so like yours in many respects. I grew up an Evangelical Baptist. I too was very fervent and was destined for the ministry. I too began having doubts in Bible College which eventually led me to leave Christianity altogether.

 

It's not an uncommon story at all. There are many of us.

Opposing intolerance is not intolerant, any more than opposing crime is criminal.

Nicely said. Thanks for sharing a bit of your story; yes it sounds like we've had similar journeys. 

Hi -Mark-andrew78--I watched your tape  Mark, and tryed to  lison and understand were your at.  As far as I can see mark .Like a lot of Christains I'v talked with , I think you may have there problem.  They say there haveing trouble following GOD. They say it didn't seem to be working. I say hows that?Well they say we feed the poor ,  We help are neighbors , we go to church on sundays. I don't no it just seems Gods, not with me. I say wait a minute, did God tell you to do these things ?.( No but I thought )it would be the thing to do.  How do I put this Mark.  We  you and I, don't (know the right way) to do things. Thats why we sinned.Only God knows what is right and how and when to do it. We are not called to lead God . We are called to follow Him(.His will be done ), not ours.You must not put anything befor GOD , not even us..So you sinned well you walked with GOD , you think no one else has? God knows who we are , an what we are like . We can hide  this from others, but not GOD.He'll help you through it, He Loved  you even well you were deep in sin.Even befor you were born JESUS was sent to save you. That is why the Love, I feel for God, is like the kind of Love I have felt for no other  living being. At this time when I am , far, far from perfect. He says I belong to Him.As a matter of fact Mark  , I think everyone that has lived ,or is living, or will live, belongs to GOD.I hope the world will find this out, but again as I'v said  this is GODS world.I think your Father and Grandfarther , had it right  Mark. So I pray this for you. When you look up, may you find GOD is in front of you. If not stop an call for Him , and He will come to show the way.God Bless.  airclean33

Hello airclean33, We clearly have very different views of what/who God is and of human nature as well.  You seem to think that we little humans are originally sinful in nature and therefore don't know the right things to do. You also seem to have an anthropomorphic view of God in that GOD is GOD and His will must be done. I however believe that God is pure Spirit who is constantly evolving with humanity AND that there really may not be separation between humanity and divinity at all.

You make a lot of assumptions about Mark not knowing God, in amongst your spurious claims of fact aircleen33

 

 

What give you the right to claim he, or anyone doesn't know God?

 

This is an eternal challenge to me since it's been hard for me to get to a place where I am opposing the intolerance without doing harm.

The trouble with your saying, Witch, is that "opposing" does entail intolerance of the thing being opposed; if you were to tolerate X, then you would not be opposing X.  So opposing intolerance, as a blanket statement, is self-contradictory.  Opposing something has nothing inherently to do with crime, so the anlogy of opposing crime being criminal doesn't fit - it doesn't address the problem.

 

As a side-note, "tolerance" is something we have for negative things.  One tolerates discomfort.  One tolerates disruptions.  One tolerates things that get in one's way.  Good or neutral things need no tolerance.  Saying we tolerate other beliefs, mindsets, etc., is still casting those things in a negative light.

Hi Mark andrew---I would gusse you would know the Bible well. One of the place I get my views are from there . When you read the Bible from Gen to Rev. You will see , not to do Gods will, is not a good thing.I also believe GOD is Spirit. I don't think GOD has to evol, nor do I think man is.We I Believe are just chosing whitch God you want to follow.In that there would be a change in the way man  is , I would agree.

When you read the Bible from Gen. to Rev. you read all sorts of awful things (as well as good things). You read that it's ok for a slave owner to rape his slaves, that having multiple mistresses is A-OK, and that "blessed are they who bash the heads of their enemies children on the rocks.Who can say what is God's will, airclean33t  I try to keep it vague at best: Micah 6:8 " what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God." And The Golden Rule. That's about all.

 

Your observations certainly bear consideration Azdgari. The whole concept of how to deal with exclusivist puts one in a precarious philosophical position.

 

However, since the only thing the intolerant exlusivist will accept is complete agreement and aquiesence, a certain amount of "intolerance" is inevitable for even the most inclusive.

[quote=Witch]

You make a lot of assumptions about Mark not knowing God, in amongst your spurious claims of fact aircleen33

 

 

What give you the right to claim he, or anyone doesn't know God?

[/quote Hi Witch --First you say ,I said Mark didn't know GOD . Then ask me why I think He didn"t. Would you show me were I said that.

It's only precarious with the blanket "anti-any-intolerance" position.  One can certainly be intolerant of certain ideas, and of the people who hold them, while championing the values that one's tolerance is supposed to be upholding in the first place.  "Tolerance" is a means, not an end, IMO.

Agreed.

Hi Mark_andrew 78--You posted---.Who can say what is God's will, airclean33t --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------airclean --post---The Holy Spirit of GOD can tell you GODS will.I should explain Mark .I am a born again Christian.I was in the united church when I first became a christian about 38 years ago.By the way I was kind of mad when God told Israel , not only kill the people who lived in the city . But all the animals as well.God showed me later why.

That's one of the dangers of seeing God as a Man (or Woman) in the Sky. You can claim that His Spirit has told you something and start preaching it as gospel.  God doesn't have a plan for all time. God is Spirit, continually moving and growing and loving. I need not worry about veering off any set "path" and facing punishment.

 

Mark

 

 God's will is His word ---God's will for us is found in Romans 12:1-12  if you care to read it .

 

 

Hi mark --The ones I know mark . Don;t live under the laws . So kind of hard to fall off the path. You see when we speak in tongues it shows our name is in the book of life. I gusse this means you don't believe in the infilling of GODS Holy Spirit. If this is true I would think your going to have a hard time understand GOD, or His word. Mark in my Christian belief you can believe what you want ,I can't make you believe any thing. I will try and say things that may help you. .If you have ears you will hear. I may show you somthings in Gods word . If you got eyes you will see. What you see and hear is between GOD and you. ,not me.I keep wanting to call you Markess , is there any reason I should? I have to close now Mark . I will be back tomorrow. You have a great night Mark.----airclean33

 

 

Hi Mark

 

You are so right I don't know you and you don't know me --but God knows you Mark -He knows everything and anything about you ---you can't hide from God or Satan --You seem to be angry in your comments to me ---Anger Mark comes from fear ---so what are you afraid of -- Bible says we should be slow to anger and besides anger brings sickness and disease .

 

Peace to you and many Blessings

If what you're saying is true, then God also knows that your "Peace and Blessings" that you're sending my way are actually condescending and basically you hope that one day I come around to your version of Christianity.

 

Actually Mark my peace and Blessings to you are genuine you can believe what you want but you are right God does know me and how far I have come in my Spiritual walk with Him .As far as me trying to convert you goes ---you are so wrong as all I can do is tell you how great it is for me to be walking in the path I am on .Your choice is your choice ---My hope is all people will come to God but it is up to them to pursue it .

 

So Mark you can think all kinds of insults to hurl around me but like God says Love the sinner hate the sin ---your body only moves to your thoughts Mark  Satan attacks your thoughts ---so you see once you learn that-- you can love all people knowing that Satan is at work in their thinking  and you can only hope that the person will replace their bad thoughts with God's word ----So my hope for you is just that but you have to choose it .

 

Peace and Blessings to you Mark and have a great weekend

Where did God/Jesus say, "Love the sinner hate the sin" in the Bible? Isn't His love unconditional? Don't we have enough sins of our own to "hate", Unsafe?

Unsafe, you are so good at cutting and pasting scripture.  Please, just one more.  Where in the Bible do we find the verse 'Love the sinner hate the sin.'   Just that line please.

 

Hi waterfall --do you feel God hates the person who sins ?

 

That would be unconditional love ---Loving sinner but not  the action -This scripture says God did not send His Son to condemn the world but to save the world through Him   ---So Jesus loves the person but not the action --when we accept Jesus we are free from sin ---Jesus Himself was tempted by Satan but had the will to resist ---We humans are not as fortunate and God knows this .Jesus own disciples whom He love turned against Him ---How --Satan influenced their thinking . 

 

Love the sinner and hate the sin????????

 

I'd say assimilate the sin as a way of not doing things ... then many of the institutional will say this is the way it is and will not alter ... could suggest evolution to the conservatives. Is there an alternate ... like nemesis to that person ... be the death of me as I lay down laughing about a mortal knowing-God. Consider God as all-there-is ... can a mortal know? If you portray a know-it-all does that isolate or exclude you from the population of emotional peoples (what we are defined as by some philosophies)? If a person says God talks to them would a mortal think ye crazy? That is not my question but came from greater sources ... as flawed I can't remember! It was "fore given" known once as danoti, but exorcised out by Rome ... why intellect is out just now!

 

Then, if a person had a brush with God (word with infinite metaphor) as a conflict in terms of love, justice, mercy and humility ... would this be an understanding incident or just sublime humour to the paradigm (infinite chaos) the greater pool of humanity? It cause many to fall down in delightful humour. We are an odd bunch if you compare us to the surrounding spatial dimensions ... just out there looking for the rebound, eco, ego, or reflection on that coming from the emotional source. Some say there are no contraditions in the bible ... but just compare black with white and consider the metaphors in those 2 shades ... can raise a lot of conflix ... as we see war in this dimension as compared to wrestling in the dark in another concept.

 

Sort of strikes me as bete Eire'n fighting ... then there are the nemesis, or alter Egos to think ... sort of desire to the KISS principle of God when the whole thing is downloaded you'll feel like youv'e been hit by a BUSS!

 

Anyone watch Casa Blanca lately or the parallel in Vanilla Sky when Michael was rejected and Sophia played the nemesis? Illusrates the effect of a blind love when played against the dark side ... what we don't know is bigger than you are so have respect when talking about all-that-is ... ID could get you and create some sort of a sequil as a myth that may not be all that mire to you on the inside of the story ... which is something like intelligence of the other kind ... the et'ic of myth as moral to the story?

 

Warning some of the expressions will be very un-explicit ... so mortals won't have to know ... the way all-that-is (cosmological constant) created IÐ ... a variable perspective. Some evolutions are required to see the other side of this myth called the soul of God---St Niche of Cusa!

 

Now in a god-like place ... knowing the soul of God could be fatal ... that is nothing to toy with ... you could be assimilated or at the least very drawn ... leading to the words druid and old La Ban ease expression about the sea shore ... you remember Laban in the OT ... one of the old patriarches made a lot of fuzz over eM ... clouded issues? Then are those in the beyond state ... any different ... other than perspectives?

 

Makes the sublime giggle ... at the ... ridiculous overhead that a real person must rise to. Just call me fantasy ... I'll stay where I am and watch a bit until prodded by some unacceptable stoop Ide-idée that is not hard to find in the modern leadership of dictators of law ... has no heart nor no thought of wee people as making the collective §'elves ... sort've small when observed from outside the system ... where I was excluded to by modern Christianity that is not all-inclusive ... we learn little ... like the lost or dark flowers ... lileth? It is an expression of little aethers ... or tiny vaccuous things of infinite attractive powers ... grave-ID? Sume anon-sense required ... ad verse to light ... thus that which goes on in the dark ... a rite in dependance of the circumstances that come to light. Will the one falling for de noös (derived from noia) take responsibility for his part in de deuce in connections about fear of coming to this place alone? That is the incidence when mind meets heart .. gotta love the myth as a cross'n of unknowns to the medium ... intellect co-joined to emotions ... rare case eh?

 

Such has many convoluted understandings that it could cause war in a real world that doesn't know metaphysical conflict in the brae'n (expressed in the 13th pillar or corinth) nothings th'Eire yet! Lingering ... good place to pude athe aught tho' ... like kitty, or a'Koine in the Piggie ... depends ...? When Donne with slight dissonance allows for tuning the dae mon ... why some things are repeated over an over here like myth! Loupe or-a what ...

 

Just one parting question ... is a device of (devisive, divined?) word like a mental function, or is that just literal device? Requires periodic exercise like all sins so as to remind the isolated ... how not to do it .... a double negative like "ï" in th' electric realm ... thoughts can be gone in a flash too ...

 

Could nail down that old concept of understanding variable tongues ... in the light of all the lies thrown at us by those that don't know or care for the bete-Eire ...

Still waiting for the biblical verse that acknowledges the phrase, " Love the sinner but not the sin"

 

Jesus died for the WHOLE world unsafe, for us to even condemn the sin puts us on the "throne", not GOD......IMO.

 

FYI......it was Gandhi that coined this phrase, not Jesus.

 

Hi waterfall

 

You are right that there is no actual verse that says that ---the scripture I gave you says it for me ----And I see what you are saying and I agree that we can't judge the sin God has that privilege not us . I totally agree with that .

 

Peace  

 

No... that is how you interpret that particular scripture. I am sure there are others who interpret it differently.

Unsafe is God.  His interpretations are infallible.

Mark Andrew - I finally found time to watch your video. I though it was a well thought out, well articulated sermon.  It certainly spoke to me.  The readings at the beginning gave me something between chills and hives because, like yourself and Witch, I too one thought and spoke that way. I also recognized the part about being sick and tired of feeling weak and tired and constantly guilty from years of painful personal experience, the depression and what I heard as self-loathing were also depressingly familiar. I walked away from those beliefs over 10 years ago and ended up in what I call 'Solitary Eclectic Pagan Land'.  I have to admit I have a definite tendency to knee jerk reactions when it comes to all thing Christian. To this day I find it very very hard to look beyond the words to see where the words are coming from.

 

Congratulations unsafe!   This is the first time I remember you admitting that something was not God's words but your interpretation of a passage of scripture.   I know that you were addressing Waterfall, but it is son a puiblic forum and I thank you. 

 

Perhaps now you see that people can read a passage and put their own interpretation on it.  In fact that is the only way to read scripture.  Read it, think about it, pray about it, and try to see what it means to you in the here and now.

 

 

 

Hi seeler

 

waterfall never said anything about the passage I quoted ---she was referring to the the phrase I quoted and I agreed that God has to judge the sin not humans --the scripture for me and I did say for me above says that God loves the sinner but doesn't like the sin . You can interpret the scripture I quoted as you like and so can waterfall --for me it says what it says about the phrase I quoted .

 

Peace

Mark Andrew, I watched your video.  Thank you for posting it and explaining what your new found religion means to you.  I found it interesting but it didn't speak to my situation.

 

I grew up in the United Church, and yes, I am aware of its history and some of its roots.  Certainly there were times when guilt was a powerful force in people's lives.  John and Charles Wesley grew up in a home with a strict mother who spoke about her children,  (from memory) 'From the age of one year, and sometimes earlier, they learned to fear the rod and to weep silently.'   No wonder they were plagued with guilt.  Martin Luther also felt the burden of guilt when he realized that he could never 'earn' his way to heaven, but must be 'saved by grace'.

 

But in my lifetime, during the latter half of the 20th century, sin and guilt were not the abiding themes - love, compassion, forgiveness, hope, acceptance dominated.  Over 50 years ago I remember a young minister changing the words of some of the older hymns.  "What does this mean - such a worm as I?   she would ask us.  'Human beings are not worms.  Let's sing 'such a one as I?'  

 

Yes, I have felt regrets during my lifetime.  I know that I have fallen short of all that I was meant to be, that I have failed to live up to the high calling of God.  I especially feel a mother's guilt in the way I raised my children for I was not the perfect parent, and there were things I couldn't protect my children from.  But I also knew that I was loved and valued just as I am.   Just as I am, not perfect, but a child of God, an heir to the promise, striving to live in the kingdom of God in the here and now.

 

I find that in the UCC. 

 

As part of a comparative religion class, I visited the local UU.  (We also visited the Mormon church, the local Mosque, and had a visiter explain Native Spirituality and lead us through the sweet grass ceremony).   I was most impressed by the UU, but when I asked if I could be a member and still be a Christian, I was told 'No'.  I have since been told that this person was wrong.  In this thread people talk about UU Christians.  But, at the time, that closed the door for me.   Not that I was considering leaving my home church, but thinking 'If I wasn't in the UCC, this is where I would like to be, and I was disappointed to be told that I couldn't. 

 

Right now, and for over 70 years, I am and have been UCC.  If something happens, I will likely remain a Christian but attend the local UU. 

It is difficult for those that have lived a Kush life to imagine anything different ... perhaps why in the metaphysical there is a sense of the rod to wake the monster to alternate ways things have happened.

 

I was excluded from several (eve'angel) churches because of the childhood baggage of being (a single-parent child). Then there is the parable of Jesus in the full family ... but many miss that extent in the biblical legend ... more explicit?

 

I remain to stir and disrupt the ineffable devil who sleeps completely unaware of what goes on about eM. This is sometimes defined as thought in a Roman religion that would sooner the devil not know ... but one has to be careful of that underlying power ... for looking up ID sees everthing as a buried talent!

 

Wouldn't that just chimera your timbre into a hollow in the night at what was misplaced due to ignorance? I've been told ignorance is not a conspiracy of sacred order ... but can you be aware of ignorance sneaking up on you as a god-like figure that is pure emotion ... the thinking portion being part of another dimension? Ineffable ... what some people say is an unspeakable screw up in the soul process .... although it may give the emotional sort arrest! Could seize that in words of writ! But be careful of how you do it ... if accused with adult intercourse you could be de-stoned or burned as removed from the rest of the Wahl of humanity racine on to its end ...

 

What could be buried in ignorance ... there's the realm of the Shadow in deficient humanity ... missing lynx? Then there are those that don't like cathars ... due to the continual washing ... thoughts up against a difficult place? Just phi'll'n the spaces as encountered ... word association as metaphor? Rows ource ... prototype or just pure archetype ... in Shinto that's silence ... peace be with you! It can take on variable satyr ... daemon with a candle ... might find his way in the dark ... occult process? Leaves rheum even for Levite ... un-fixed teacher ... rabi'd ... is there a Hindu expression? Giggles, snorts and other'smoor ...

1. God is neither male nor female (really - does God have testicles?)

2. "You can't hide from God or Satan." I'm not trying to hide from God at all. In fact, I have a relationship with God, it's just not the version of God that you believe in. 

3. I believe that the idea of Satan is laughable. "He" is a construct made up by humans hundreds of years ago to keep people in line with a certain set of beliefs and to keep people terrified. It's amazing to me that in 2012 people still believe in the pointy-eared guy. The only pointy-eared guy I believe in is Spock.

4. You're right, I do get angry. And you know what "Unsafe"? THAT'S OK. There's nothing wrong with feeling anger and expressing it at times. Jesus got pissed off at times and so do we.

Hi Seeler-- you posted--

Perhaps now you see that people can read a passage and put their own interpretation on it.  In fact that is the only way to read scripture.  Read it, think about it, pray about it, and try to see what it means to you in the here and now.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Airclean--post--What you stated here Seeler . God has said through out, my walk with Him. Wouldn't it be great it all My church could only try an understand each other.I do not belong to any Christian Denomintion, I believe if I did . It would be like saying I think the others are wrong.In a way it works out well as I can fellow ship with all , and not have to hurt any.Are we not to except , all who walk with Jesus the Christ as family?It is hard because a lot of the churchs want you to join, to attened.I believe that if Christian Denomintions  would sett and talk more about why they believe in , what they do. Perhapps we could stay off each others toes better.I as a father, I hate to see my  earthly children  fight. But I do understand each of my children are different and each has there own way of wanting to do things.But the one thing my children have always showen ,is the love they chare for each other.I am afaid I have not wittness this in the church.Where has the LOVE that Jesus showed us , and told us .To bring to the world gone?If the Love of God is not in your own house, and in You,then how could you share it with your neighbour?-----God Bless sister---airclean33