Darrel Tessier
Once Saved Always Saved???
Posted on: 08/06/2011 13:56
When I first became a Christian ("accepting Jesus as my Savior!") I read the Bible with a group of fundamentalists who interpreted the scripture in a "face-value" kind of way similar to what one hears from TV evangelists and from many pulpits too. But over time, it ended up, even these people who all "took the Bible literally" argued with each other! They even went so far as to say of other fundamentalists that they were "of the devil" and preached a "false gospel!" For example: "once saved, always saved" Baptists denounced "but you can lose your salvation" Pentecostals. It was a mess!
This way of interpretation ("... but the Bible says.... blah, blah, yadda, yadda....) can become idolatry. I heard some one call this "biblio-alitry!" When we ALL get to heaven will some be walking around with their noses stuck in their Bibles? "Wait a minute there God... I'm not sure what you’re saying to me here in front of you’re throne! Let me check that in the Good Book here and find a scripture about that! Ah, you see... but it says here...!”
Comments
Witch
Posted on: 08/06/2011 14:22
Isn't it funny how the "literalist" have so much trouble agreeing on what it is the Bible says?
Berserk
Posted on: 08/06/2011 14:51
Why oh why didn't you post this under the existing thread instead of starting a new thread with the same title?
revjohn
Posted on: 08/08/2011 08:48
Hi Berserk,
Why oh why didn't you post this under the existing thread instead of starting a new thread with the same title?
Probably because it is about interpretation (particularly a literalist interpretation) and not the specific doctrine.
Grace and peace to you.
John
Darrel Tessier
Posted on: 08/08/2011 15:14
Actually Beserk I had written out my question in WORD while not having internet access. Then I cut and pasted it into the discussion but, yes, I see now I could have just kept on the previous thread which amazingly, unknown to me, was almost the same kind of question. But its is more about literalism which seems to be to distort Christianity as I understand it. The Spirit quickeneth, the letter killeth! Am I correct in assuming the literalists came out of the reaction to modernism and biblical criticism beginning in the 19th century but really peaking around the late 1800s and early 20th century? Before that Biblical interpretation was multi-layered, was it not? Help me out some of you theologians. I know you know a lot about this topic.
revjohn
Posted on: 08/08/2011 16:40
Hi Darrell Tessier,
Am I correct in assuming the literalists came out of the reaction to modernism and biblical criticism beginning in the 19th century but really peaking around the late 1800s and early 20th century? Before that Biblical interpretation was multi-layered, was it not? Help me out some of you theologians. I know you know a lot about this topic.
You are correct.
Grace and peace to you.
John
Berserk
Posted on: 08/08/2011 17:26
David,
Thanks for your explanation. It does make sense and your critique has merit. I pastor a United Methodist church in a beautiful mountainous region of northeast Washington state. It's a great place to live and many wealthy retirees move here from places like California because of the quiet lifestyle, the wildlife, and the low population. But we are also the 2nd poorest county in the state and have a large homeless population. Our ministerial association does a lot to help the poor, but many conservative churches won't cooperate with us because they view me as a godless liberal over the gay controversy and theological issues like "once saved, always saved." Other churches boycott our association because the Catholic church also belongs. So the thread on whether Catholics are true Christians has particular poignancy for me.
Minor doctrinal differences have become grounds for refusing to band to together and help the poor. In the Body of Christ the whole can be so much more effective than the sum of individual parts. We could be doing so much more for the poor if doctrinal issues like "once saved, always saved" could be set aside in the interests of loving needy people. As you point out, the issue of the Spirit vs. the letter of the Law is central to this tragedy. One way I try to confront the problem is by arranging for cooperative ventures with invidividual churches. For example, in the past year, our church joined forces with a nearby Assembly of God church to sponsor a 4-day women's retreat centered in both churches. Then we co-sponsored a 10-week Alpha program with the Catholics as a witness of our respect for their church. The result is a new friendly relationship between our members and the Catholics that manifests in our stores and restaurants. Many Catholics now support our potluck dinner-movie nights. Right now, I'm trying to imagine a pretext for some sort of joint program with the standoffish Fundamentalist churches. If we can project a more human face on each other, then maybe there is hope for more cooperation in serving the poor.
I love what our local Catholic priest recently did. Upon hearing that a Fundamentalist pastor preached an anti-Catholic sermon, he asked for a meeting with that pastor. Instead of confronting the slander, the priest simply shared his faith history and dreams and got to know that pastor on a very human level. Such personal groundwork is the only hope of melting hearts and opening minds to overcome such petty barriers.
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 08/08/2011 18:26
Very very true.
One of the biggest strengths with Alpha is its bringing people together.
Eating is good. Why not just invite us to dinner. More can flow out of that. Props to you and your church for all your ecumenical initiatives.
Darrel Tessier
Posted on: 08/09/2011 08:42
To Beserk; Wow... you have your work cut out for you! But good work and Godly work it is! Do these other folks that take a hard line know the Jesus was not even a Christian? He was a good Jewish boy gone bad!