Is this subject too touchy?

One of my favourite mind-opening experiences was when I was driving across the US to The Holy Land of Gamers, MECCA.  It was LATE and it was time for a bathroom break.  We were in the middle of nowhere, a lonely blacktop road ribboning through the darkness, trees looming everywhere.  There was a kind of building ahead, some kind of bar, roadhouse.

We entered.  One bar along the whole length of the building aimed toward the bathrooms at the back.  The bar was festooned with men with Kenmore caps and flannel macs.

I was hesitant to go to the back.

And I got to hear some of the talk.  Aboot someone who had been murdered and that the suspect, a Hispanic male etc etc...and I heard one of the folks in the Kenmore cap and felt mac say that that wasn't fair for the newspaper to print that, because it had no bearing on the information in the story.

I got a little enlightened then, and was able to go to the bathroom.

I don't think this topic ought to be considered too controversial.  I think congregations should give this a lot of thought. 

Around here I often hear the word Indian tacked onto ordinary statements.  I have even heard 'that nigger kid that the J.....'s adopted.' 

I try to speak up about it when I can - to the point of losing a potential new friend last week.    I objected to repeated statements like 'all the crime around here is done by the Indians', and 'Indians are all lazy and on Welfare' and Indians spend most of their time drinking and abusing there kids'.   Obviously all those statements are untrue - I know Indians who are as honest and law abiding as I am, who work hard, earn there money, don't drink and don't abuse children.

When I was attending a church I heard statements similar to those coming from the congregation. 

I can't think of a time when I saw people of colours other than basic white sitting in the congregation.

Yes those examples are racist.

And yes, while I cann ot control what other people say, I can control what I will stand and listen too.

When people I am speaking to make racist statement, I tell them politely that I don't want to hear it. If they continue, I turn on my heels and walk away without another word.

Pretty soon word gets around that if you want to speak to me, leave your racism at home.

Way to be witch, I'm quite the same.

As-salaamu alaikum

-Omni

I think those statements are racist if the nationality/race has no bearing on the story.  If it's "a Chinese woman approached me to ask for directions but I couldn't understand her accent" than it's safe to say that because the reason that you couldn't understand her was because of her nationality - it's a clarifier.

I also don't like when people use "Indian" when what they really mean is "Native" or "First Nations".  When someone uses the term "Indian", I usually say something to the effect of "you mean from India?"

HIlary I'm the same way, I live in a community that has a large portion of FIrst Nations and Métis people and I dislike it strongly when people refer to them as "Indians".

What's worse is that we have a government department called "Indian and Northern Affairs".  Would it be so hard to change it to "Native and Northern Affairs"?  It even rolls off the tongue better IMO.

As-salaamu alaikum

-Omni

Around here the First Nations people refer to themselves as Indians.  They only use the term First Nation when they are taking about a reserve - as in Cougar Creek First Nation (that is an imaginary place!).

Around here the formal name of the community is Curve Lake First Nation, Saugeen First Nation and so on. Mind you, the preferred name is Anishnabe.

I live in a highrise. Sometimes when my daughter and I are talking about a certain tenant she may know and I don't  know or vice versa we will refer to the person's nationailty. We don't mean any harm. It helps re identification.

Summertime events take place on the grounds of our city hall or elsewhere.  An advertisement might say " Mexican Day"  "Peru Day" "Jamaican Day" "Italian Picnic" "Greek Festival "  and so forth. I think it helps draw those of certain nationalities together in a big city like Toronto.

I'm not sure we always referred to our  Can. Indians as Natives. It seems to me we refer to them as Native now  in part to distinquish them from the people of India.

With Toronto being multi cultural it seems to me we or the media ( newspapers, local TV)  are always referring to nationalities or races . Again its for identification purposes and its not considered offensive. I was never so aware of nationalities and races as when I worked for the UN or Unicef.

I guess CH your OP means when we are speaking about others in a derogatory way. Most nationalities make jokes about themselves and their culture etc. among themselves which seems to be acceptable. Its not acceptable when outsiders of the groups do it. There has always been sort of a racist attitude ( is that the right word?) about Newfoundlanders. The whole of Canada delights in what we call Newfie jokes. Maritime people too whose economy in the past  lagged behind the big cities have been sort of categorized as poor or uneducated. Hicks....would that be the word?  Hicks is a commonly used word to describe country people. I don't think its particularly nice.

 Racism in Toronto regarding our black community  is a never ending topic in our newspapers and local TV. In our high schools we have gangs from various countries and nationalities.  We single them out. Perhaps it isn't right  but we fear them so we name them. My grandson going into grade 9 stays away from them.

My ancestors are Scotch Irish. I don't often find them represented at  city  cultural events and that irks me. I presume they don't live together in certain communities so its more difficult to organize summer events or there isn't a large pop. of them in Toronto. Whatever... this makes me racist too. Thinking about it we've always had jokes or sayings about the Irish and the Scotch too.

Bottom line: I think I'd have to conclude we are racist. Being Can. Caucasian I don't know if other nationalities have names for us? We call Americans "yankees" but I don't think that's bad is it? 

(Perhaps I'm getting all mixed up on this topic...).

Somethings quite bizarre...

stardust, the only two terms I have heard of to referr to 'da White race' is Cracker and Whitey...though I have never heard the terms used where I live.

Inanna

Do you see racism in the second video or some mystery component?  Are you thinking the life sentence is because she's  obese and probably poor? She got 10 years I think. Someone on the net asked what if it was a man forcing a 13 yr. old girl to touch his penis?  People are saying there's something aboot the case that we don't know. It does seem ridiculous. I'm thinking she had a falling out with her friend, the boy's mother, so the mother sought revenge. Maybe the boy's mother was raving  mad about her friend and the boy joined in telling that they had frolicked, had fun or whatever. The law for lewdness in Nevada is life in prison. I think Nevada is  the only state where brothels are legal so they aren't so much known for their purity?  Yep....its weird.

I did hear "ho" in the first video re the card.

A Chinese decent Canadian friend of mine teasingly and affectionately used to call us white friends "pasteys". German friends called us shaven legs girls "chicken legs".

"Hick" is interesting. Yes it is derogatory, and I don't think city raised people use it to the faces of so called hicks, and it could be mistakenly used. But there is a difference between culturally educated modern types, and folks who haven't been exposed to the varied delights of the modern day and literature. So called hicks tend to be more racist, sexist, homophobic, unenvironmental, less excepting, and less worldly. Hence there is friction between the two. I hope that over time, as had happened in Europe and England, the gap will close as culture, education and understanding (and recycling programmes!) become more widespread. It is happening where I live, as more people from the city move to town, and the internet carries information, new ideas, art and culture to the country.

As for racism, I think we should not try to wash ourselves all over as one and the same, colourless, and therefore heritageless. I would say "a woman" if a chinese decent Canadian came up to me, if it was a chinese woman from China with an accent, I would say "chinese woman". I met a very black man at a fair a couple weeks ago, and I am not scared to say that he was black, he was African, he was pretty neet. He had an interesting name and he was tall and his eyes and smile flashed, he was nice and I liked his patterned African shirt.

I think we are not all the same, but we should not be afraid to differentiate between the races. I don't mean discriminate, I only mean to take interest rather than to ignore, our different herritages. There are bound to be some clashes, unfortunately that is unavoidable. One thing I hate about Jehova's Witness magazines is how they make everybody look the same, no matter the culture, everyone must be painted with the tidy, pretty, white man's dress code and hair do's, like that's the clean and good thing to do.

Now, the natives themselves call themselves "Indians". First Nations to me sounds so formal and scared to offend. I don't know how they feel about me calling them Indians, so I say Native. But that too can cause upset to some who feel that because they were born in Canada that makes them a native of CAnada. SO I tend to flip between Indian and Native.

Stardust: You must have a Highland Games in Toronto, that's where the Celts gather, go and bask in your herritage!! I love the Highland Games and I 'm not even Irish or Scottish, but I lived in Scotland for 9 months and it has become a part of my soul. I love the loud noise of the pipe bands!

She was sentenced to life.  It says at the end of the video.

I was including this to show just some of the effects of a people's obsession with obscenity/pornography/blasphemy (OPB), that even though the OPB itself may not 'exist', people's lives can be ruined by it.

In 1970, Dr. Timothy Leary was sentenced to 20 years in jail for posession of less than 1/2 ounce of pot, which was very bizarre, because it was based on two previous arrests for posession of pot which Dr. Timothy Leary and others were able to declare unconstitutional (and, thus, have the repressive law changed).  Seems you can change the law, but changing people's minds is much harder...

And I heard "hole" -- "ho" doesn't make sense in the context of the card (which is aboot the solar system, where black holes would be indeed troubling).

The big question for me is, between the card company and the NAACP, who is right?  And even if the NAACP is wrong, their media campaign will still have effects.

And we can take this even further afield, like towards BP, or even Obama...but that is another series of posts for another time :3

Don't mention race unless it's actually important to the story. At least, that's what I believe my Korean wife would advise.

Inanna

I googled re the life sentence. I found a forum etc. The concensus was that she got 10 years. Sorry, I didn't  think to save the link, It was just because of my own curiosity. Its very scary 'tho to think that people may be fooling around joking and something like this can happen. Unbelievable! We aren't told if she took her clothes off (?)  but it certainly wasn't rape. It would be the boy's word against hers and I guess she confessed not knowing it was going to be such a serious charge. Otherwise a lawyer may have advised her differently. The idea is out there that women get away with sex abuse and men don't so perhaps the judge was out to even the score by sentencing her. The crime doesn't fit the penalty given. OMG.....!!!!

Re the card I don't want to fuel the fire but  there are people who see racial prejudice  against them everywhere. Hallmark doesn't want to lose business so they complied. I listened again. The card did say "black hole" I think but people took it as "black ho". Then too, the giggling didn't help.

What I keep coming across is that she was sentenced to life, with the opportunity for parole after 10 years.

Here is another web site: http://www.coyote-tv.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2250&...

Now we know why corporations are VERY CAREFUL.

People are kindof like guns who don't really know how they work themselves, and when we go off, there are consequences.

It is a bad habit that many if not most people that I know have.  I am married to a Black woman, and am white, but I will still talk about someone being Black or Chinese, or Indian, if I want to suggest that they are from another country.  It is a difficult habit to break.  I hate prejudice but I find I have habits similar to bigots.

crazyheart .... thank you for bringing this topic up.

I suppose that at one time I was a closeted casual racist....

I would idly allow descriptions drool from my lips just making sure that it stayed this side of socially acceptable.   Nothing biting or viscious of course ... I was too good for that LOL.    It wasnt that I intended to "be racist" or that I meant any harm .... but I did nonetheless.

Things have changed for me .....   Strange how experiencing something similar for oneself can show things in a different light.   I am rather sad that it took that for me to finally see how cruel casual racism is.

In my journey I have simplified my judgemental classification system  (yes I still judge and I suspect most of us do).   I now only have 2 classifcations .... Nice ..... and ... Not Nice.     Persons have wandered back and forth across those two categories.     I wish I could say that I simply judge actions and viewpoints etc ..... but that would not be true .... I am not quite there yet.    I do acknowledge that fact and I try to compensate for that defect in my life as I attempt to grow out of it.

Now for using the "qualifier" descriptors such as East Indian, Chineese, Scottish etc.  

I have an idea! ..... why not use them as terms of admiration and respect concerning something about how they live out their culture that we find wonderful?

Would that not be a better way?

I am consciously adopting that philosophy right now ..... I shall let you know how it goes!

Hugs

Rita

Hi crazyheart,

In as much as they bring race into the conversation I would say potentially.

I'd have to know further why it is important that the drunk individual be defined by their race or why an individual with two cars needs to be defined by their race.

I have met many a Caucasian drunk and known many Caucasians to own more than one vehicle.

I might ask why the race was important to the story and if there was no good reason I'd suggest that racism might account for it.

Grace and peace to you.

John