Congratulations. Atheists very often ask far more discerning questions and find greater awe in the world around them than most "Christians". I learned a tremendous amount as an atheist for around 30 years. 

In the end, though, I found the mystery grew to the sort of proportions that made "god" a helpful way to talk about it. And once I realised how arrogant I had to be to sustain my atheism (we do like to cling to things), I started reading. really reading, religious texts and slowly I found that religious TEACHINGS made a lot of sense, given our existential situation, an, slower still, I discovered a vast treasury of wisdom within the Christian tradition... 

Life is a journey. We don't arrive at the end until we get there. The journey is the thing and all that we can seen and discover and learn along the way; life is rich mix and a heady, exciting way to exist.

The REAL exiles in life are the ones who cling with both hands to yesterday's truth, while experience carries them inexorably towards futures in which their baggage no longer has any truth or worth, but is just a burden. They are lost to life and to each other. Feel for them.

“I’m not so impressed with myself that I think myself so awesome that only ‘God’ could have made me.  Flawed natural processes are up to making flawed humanity, including me.  For thinking this, Christians call me arrogant.” -- Unkn

You wrote out exactly what I went through too! It's been about 5 years now and I've honestly never been happier. I struggled for SO LONG with the ideas and the beliefs and the language and I finally admitted, "I don't believe this stuff." And it felt incredible to say it out loud, to myself, when for so long I kept it inside.

I hadn't heard that one before, Brett.  I like it.  Thanks.

Agnieszka, welcome to the dark side.  We have cookies.

There are honestly times when I wish I had gone through the struggle.  I almost wish I had been brought up in a Christian household, so I would know what it is like to wrestle with belief, and what it is like to leave it behind.  I don't have that to share with so many of you, but then, I have my parents to thank because I was never fearful or felt like I was being watched.

Mostly, the oppressive presence I want to escape from now, is my fixed-price natural gas contract.  Maybe when I do that, I'll share some of what you feel, young_glass.  Ironically, it's a 5 year contract.

chansen, your posts seriously crack me up :) 

mikep: i'm reading a book called the existensial jesus by john carroll.  you would probably like it.  i don't agree with some of it, but it is still an interesting read.

oh, and welcome back nish (or maybe you've been back a while and i haven't been on the same threads as you).

Agnieszka,

It is good to see you posting again.  I wonder if your journey will turn out to be like hat of Loren Cunningham, the founder of a group called Youth with a Mission.  He experienced one miracle after another in the mission field.  For example, he visited an Amazon tribe to evangelize them, but couid not speak their language.  So his initial encounter with them was tense, to say the teast.  Just then, he was confronted by a tribal woman with severe cataracts coming towards him.  He prayed for her and she was instantly healed. That healing led to the conversion of members of that tribe, once an interpreter was found.  He was later told by tribesmen that, when he spoke in tongues, he had spoken their language.  I was awed by Loren's glowing testimony, but did not know what to make of his miracle claims.  I was going through a period of intense skepticism at the time; so I asked him if there was some breakthrough experience that brought him to Christ.  His reply intrigued me; so I'll share it with you.  He said, "My breakthrough came w hen I gave up my frustrating quest for truth and was most willing to be an atheist!"  Prior to that, he (like myself) needed to believe and that need plagued his quest with a hidden agenda that made him feel dishonest and mentally suffocated.  

My own breakthrough experience came when I had dismissed alleged spiritual experiences as mere wishful thinking and peak psychological experiences with no connection to a god.  Then one day, after a long contemplative state of mind, I was suddenly ambushed by God in an unexpected ecstasy so intense I thought it might kill me.  Wave after wave of liquid love surged through my being with an ever increasing intensity that soon seemed to be beyond my breaking point.  I was so aware of an omnipotent  mind impinging on my own that I feared my mind would be totally absorbed in that divine mind and that I as an ego would cease to exist.   Yet ,my fear as offset by an intense awareness of Pure Unconditional Love like I had never experienced.  This astounding experience included an inner knowing about my calling in life and was immediately followed by psychic abilities I never dreamed of exercising (clairvoyance, etc.).  These abilities generally seem to have gone dormant now, but they served their purpose and made me  want to serve the Source of this experience with all my heart.   If you experience a similar unimaginably potent "ambush" from God, please post your breakthrough here.  I think there is a genuine possibility that this may be your ultimate blissful fate.        

Thanks all.  

Another irony is that when I dropped that struggle I started to FEEL the awe at basic life experiences and things around me way more... who cares what it can or cannot be attributed to, was and was not created by, for what purpose, blah blah blah...  just being in the midst of it is amazing!  and I want it to be enough. It IS enough.  

I do feel like I'm mourning the loss of  something important - the struggle itself was preoccupying me for a quite a while - though it will make for interesting reflection to ask myself just what is it that I have lost...  

In the meantime, Chansen, it will take some convincing about those cookies  - could they be possibly better than the ones church ladies bake at home... hmmm, do anti-theists even have old ladies who bake cookies??

:-)

A.

Hi Berserk,

Well, I'm not attached to being atheist or agnostic.  But I'm most certainly done with "trying" to be something I am simply not.  So, if there is a God who is going to act in some way and change my perspective, I'll be sure to share it!  I think it would be pretty neat to experience that - as long as I didn't have to first somehow compromise my intellect in any way...  It wouldn't even matter if no one else believed me...  But for now I'm done holding my breath for the experience, and I'm done trying to fit the mold somehow from where I am right now.  

Cheers,

A.

I'm kidding about the cookies.  We eat babies, of course.

We tried to eat Loren Cunningham once, but he bored us to sleep and escaped.  I expect Berserk would have the same superpower.

Hi Nishie. I know you have struggled. I am glad that you sound at peace with yourself.

Hi Agnieszka

I have a relative who became tired of the God stuff. I don't have the details ( its years ago) but somehow great evil came into her life. She used to think perhaps she was possessed. I just want to say ( not to scare you) that she sure believed the evil was real ,no question about it.  She suffered because of it. I have heard these cases before where people turn towards God because of evil when they can find no relief or help elsewhere. So.....was her evil imaginary.......? I don't know but I have a tendency to believe in evil  having heard enough horror stories.

I'm glad you're finally at peace and I wish you all the best.

LMAO.  Stardust, I love the salesmanship.  That's the same line they use with extended warranties.

"Lady, I know a guy who didn't get the extended warranty on his TV, and his tube thingy broke on him.  Cost him an arm-and-a-leg to get it fixed.  He ended up on welfare.  Not to scare you, of course, but you don't want to be on welfare, do you?"

Agnieszka, in all sincerity, you seem to have come to a decision based on asking questions of yourself and others.  If only everyone based their world views on something so simple and obvious as the answers received to good questions.

chansen

I'm not into selling anyone anything!  Your mind is telling you I'm trying to evangelize and that's simply not true. I was making a statement because it popped into my mind and it was a true occurence,  weird as it all may sound.

[quote=stardust]

Hi Agnieszka

I have a relative who became tired of the God stuff. I don't have the details ( its years ago) but somehow great evil came into her life. She used to think perhaps she was possessed. I just want to say ( not to scare you) that she sure believed the evil was real ,no question about it.  She suffered because of it. I have heard these cases before where people turn towards God because of evil when they can find no relief or help elsewhere. So.....was her evil imaginary.......? I don't know but I have a tendency to believe in evil  having heard enough horror stories.

[quote]

Thanks for sharing that.  In the most recent conversion I monitored on a site like this, an agnostic psychiatric nurse from Ottawa, was influenced in her decision by her experience oreat  evil in her life.  Hopefully Agnieszka will be spared that incentive. 

Sorry, Agnieszka.  This sort of thing comes with the territory.  Get used to it.

Or, repent and accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, before unspeakable evil descends upon your life like locusts.  Not that I'm trying to scare you.

chansen

I doubt very much that evil will desend upon Agnieszka unless she herself seeks it.

The kind of evil I'm speaking about is a mystery. Nobody is sure where it comes from or why. Our Rev. John was at a teens camp I believe and the evil which I speak of came to the camp. It was in the fields and everywhere. Rev. John and others were running scared. I think one would have to experience something like this for it to be believable and I would surely not wish it on anyone. I have experienced evil vibes from a person , very real,  just as you might experience good or love vibes.

Stardust, just quit while you're behind.  Kicking your posts around on this isn't even fun any more.

Now Stardust, we mustn't frighten our dear chansen with experiences of evil that he is too emotionally fragile to investigate and therefore even hear!  But my doctor brother has experienced exactly the palpable evil energy at youth camp of which you speak.  In fact, I recently discovered a website with video recordings of a gifted Canadian media personality who found himself possessed by this evil energy.  Only my desire to protect his privacy keeps me from posting it here. 

In time you may find that while you have given up on God, God has not given up on you.

Berserk, you name-drop faster than a gossip columnist.  Your unwillingness here probably has more to do with not wanting to be proven a fool, rather than most of us here just thinking it.

Ha!  Now this is funny!  Great evidence that if you've ever believed in one absurdity, believing in a whack more is ever so much easier!  ROTF!  A-mazing!  Thanks for that, you two little Devils, you!  :-)

Don't believe him, Nish!  It's a trick!  The real problem is the atheist/agnostic-to-Christian transition.  Don't ever do that - I personally know 3,218 people who tried to make that leap and Ahriman flailed them to death... the blood was everywhere!!  Everywhere!  And the AA (Atheist Archives) has files to the rafters showing the evil Satan has done - millions upon millions who tried to leave the warmth of the Atheist Fold who've perished in the most awful, despicable, disgusting, gruesome, atrocious, vile, odious, wretched, loathsome, beastly and bad ways! 

By contrast, moving to atheism only pisses off that looooving Xian God - and what's he gonna do?  Just looooooove ya more, right? (well, we don't talk about where he sends you in the (lol) 'afterlife', of course).  And we never mention when (s)he/it gets in a bad mood.  Especially an OT-style bad mood.  Indeed, in one of those...  well, just look at the graph Chansen posted.

What is God's tolerance for cliches?  For your sake, I hope it's better than mine.

Maybe Brett, the idea is to occasionally look beyond oneself.... your "self" on its one is a negligible thing; it's the sort of existence for which many scientists would assert that there is no "free will"... meaning all of your responses are wired by physiology or conditioned by experience... and, indeed,  you can't exert that "self". The only way beyond that trap is to recognise that out little heads are limited and start opening to the enormity of existence, rather than forever banging off the four walls of our "self".

Everybody can, in all justice and with great subjectivity, bitch about their limitations... and you can remain a depiliated ape throughout an entire lifespan if you choose.

You can't lick that state, and life bellyaches you along, like a twig in the river, and you become growingly aware that, existentially, you are a loser. You know zilch, you've done zilch, you think zilch, you are a petty menace to the biosphere.

But you CAN transcend it that state, and that means letting go of your conceit, your obsessions for control, and your "need" to be noticed. That happens "out there" beyond the grasp of our minds.

So... what did make you?

Who cares? Why go there?

What gives you the capacity to see and feel and imagine so much beyond your  limited senses and trifling intellect? And, because you can't know, how do you start thinking and talking about the unknowable? You have to let go a little.

Why should you care? Why should you be curious about the unknowable? Sounds futile? 

Well, it takes you beyond your "knowledge zone" into a place where you can be free to explore your own fragility and failings in a context of awe, rather than explanation... and that is what suddenly delivers "meaning" and makes your otherwise trifling, fleeting presence worthwhile and worth living fully.

Chansen: I'm not sure why, but you give me a pain in the same place Billy Graham did when he drove me, rejoicing, to atheism. It's something about noisy, authoritarian ignorance. It's never ocurred to you to "wrestle with a belief"? You are free from fallacy? But you deny arrogance? If it's not arrogance, it can only be abject foolishness...

("I almost wish I had been brought up in a Christian household, so I would know what it is like to wrestle with belief, and what it is like to leave it behind." -- Chansen, above.) 

Hi Agnieszka,

I've read your reasonings and you seem to be happy with your conclusions, but I have a question. I realize that many atheists continue to go to church, I was just wondering why you have chosen to continue to do so.

I don't struggle with the concept of a god.  Never have, to my recollection.  It just never appeared to me as a plausible idea.

I'm not saying I'm without awe and wonder, or that I'm free of contemplations.  I just don't apply "God" as an answer to any question, unless I'm being silly and pretending to be a bible thumper.

So what beliefs DO you wrestle with? Science, if you know the subject at all, would encourage you to be in the constant habit of checking your beliefs...  you seem to have many, yet you give every impression of avoiding questions relating to them.

God isn't an "answer" by the way... god is a question. "God" is a lexical entry because there's not a person living who knows what god is... I would argue that, if you can describe god, you have just ensured that your "god" is far too small to be god. That does not mean that you can't be open to experiences of what can best and most succinctly be brought into conversation by a word like "god": short, all-inclusive: the cosmic question mark.

I would also argue that saying "there is NO god" is equivalent to the god-ensnaring theology of fundamentalism.... a hang-up about control that gets blurted out from as firmly a closed mind as the one that asserts that god IS this, that or the other and will do this, that or the other (as some folk are given to in this very thread). We all need to remember that the concept of "god" and what "god" might be is precisely what laid the foundations of modern rationalism. God is all about exploration, and doubt and questions. Science is as much "of god" as going to church... often much more so.

God, to me, is the unknowable that, in our seeking to know, brings our inspirations, our compassion, our awareness of meaning, our commitment to life and to others, our   sense of person-hood and of freedom all together as an experience of existence that is worthwhile to us and makes us more present and worthwhile to others. Often when we talk about "god" ewe are really talking about OUR experiences of "god-ness" (as "beyond knowing or perceiving" in any ordinary way).

It expands our consciousness to transcend orderliness and find "truths" that are experienced rather that utterable and the closest we can come to those truths is through expressions of "love": science and most religions agree that that the human condition is a one-ness so intricate it defies analysis. It gives us a sense of existential assurance that's hinted at in the way that we share genetic material with every creature more complicated than a virus.

That's a sufficient reading of nature to lead a thoughtful person to conclusions that do not clash with anything in Jesus' teachings, for example. I'm saying Jesus knew this little gem of modern scientific discovery but there is an accord between this and his teachings that is quite wonderful. And that is what wisdom is all about. And wisdom is what most of the great religions are, at their cores anyway, are striving after. Wisdom is simply a life-enhancing accord of observations, experience and way of life.

My motto on this is "Live and let live."   I criticize no one for lack of religious beliefs.  I was an agnostic for about 35 years myself and still do not believe in a God that is so insecure He would punish people who don't "believe in Him."

May your decision bring you peace of mind.

Hi Stardust,

Wow, that is a challenging story!  I'm not sure what happened to your relative - evil or not - but clearly she believed something very scary was happening!  I think it takes a belief to interpret things in a metaphysical way - to say that something is "evil" as opposed to "strange" or "hard to understand"...  I am sure that when people have a void in their lives - when they lack love, support, hope, even faith in the goodness in life, then that can open them to painful experiences...  I am sure also that if something hard to understand was happening in my life I do not have the belief required to call it "evil".  

I hope what I'm saying makes sense to you!  I wouldn't say that her experience was imaginary.  I just wouldn't call it "evil" in some metaphysical or spiritual way.  It is a matter of belief.  Maybe I haven't heard enough "horror stories" about evil to believe in it...  But, at the same time, I used work with women who were severely addicted to drugs and substances, and whose lives were destroyed by the addiction, by their pimps, by the lives they had to live in order to support their drug use.  I would call that whole realm - drugs, suffering, addiction, prostitution, abuse, loss - "evil", but again, it wouldn't mean anything metaphysical (as in evil spirits, satan, etc.).  It would just mean really really bad, life destroying...

Plus, I don't feel like I'm tired of "the God stuff". I am tired of trying to believe in things that I can't believe in.  If God is out there somewhere or in some form somewhere to be found, I'm game!  Perhaps it's a matter of time and experience - maybe I will run into God again at sometime.  For now, I feel like I've tried to force it into my life with sheer will power and it's not working!

Blessings,

Agnieszka

Hi Chansen,

Yes, it's true.  I asked a lot of questions of a lot of very religious and committed and loving people.  These were pastors and ministers, Evangelical and United Church, spiritual directors and people trained to evangelize, and a lot of believers.  I tried to chat with atheists as well - but I have found it very challenging, sadly, as most are not comfortable with questioning things sincerely, it just because something to joke about.  Not all are like that but a lot of the people I have met were.  

Anyway, the bottom line seems to be that religion, Christianity in this case, requires belief in things that I have not found to be grounded in facts.  (Beserk, I know you have tried to offer proof but I suppose, I am not convinced by stories from the lives of others as evidence.  When it happens in my life, that will be a different story.)  Miracles and such may be possible but they are not evidence enough to base a whole religion on...  What I mean is that, even if Jesus did walk on water, why does that mean that he was God in some way?  OR, if Jesus was resurrected/revived after his death... Again, it maybe possible (and Berserk has provided stories where it's happened to other people), but why is that evidence of Jesus' being more than a mere human who had a strange experience of coming back after death? That kind of logic doesn't fit for me...  Anyway, there are plenty of other things that make no sense to me.  I'm happy to discuss them but I'm not open to being convinced anymore...

A.

Who knows what in the end - if ever - will be an incentive for conversion?  I hope it's not fear because in a way one has to sustain the fear in order to keep having a reason to believe...  But still, I think it's a matter of interpretation...  I wonder what the nurse experienced that convinced whatever it was deserved to be interpreted as "evil".  The fact that, as you say, she was a psychiatric nurse begs the question whether she encountered some sort of mental  illness that made her frightened...

In any case, if I am going to find myself surrounded by evil as a result of seeing myself as a non-believer, what sort of God brings his followers back by lashing out like that?  Perhaps the God of the Hebrew Testament would but isn't all that changed since Jesus' return?

A.

Hmmm, I'm finding myself misunderstood.  I haven't exactly given up.  I have been thinking and writing and discussing and talking with several spiritual directors over a span of almost 10 years.  That's got to be more than "giving up", don't you think? OR does God always play this hard to get?  See, I don't understand this argument.  If God has not given up on me, where is God?  Everywhere, perhaps, and nowhere, perhaps?  Bottom line, for some reason, I'm expected to believe things that I can't experience or participate in.  And why?  So that I can have the illusion that something might be there, maybe or maybe not?  Why bother with that?  IF God has not given up on me, why is God so hard to find and why are so many mental gymnastics required?  It's really all a huge waste of time, if you ask me.  I don't think I wasted my time in trying to make it work, I learned a lot through that and met a lot fo wonderful people.  BUT, enough it enough.  God should do a bit, too, don't you think?

It's a cultural experience.  It's fascinating.  It's a time to reflect on things.  I like the music and our minister is an awesome lady.  

And lastly, why not?  

It's a cultural experience.  It's fascinating.  It's a time to reflect on things.  I like the music and our minister is an awesome lady.  

And lastly, why not?  

Your thinking, writing, discussing, and talking were authentic searches for faith I'm sure. However, you titled this thread that you have been converted. Therefore I feel that at this time you have indeed finally given up albeit after a lengthy search. You ask where God is. I would say that there is an element of God right in the very heart of each one of us. It occurs to me that perhaps your search has involved too much thinking and not enough feeling, not enough inner stillness and waiting.

What it means is that it doesn't seem to me that God has done God's part in the searching.  As I said, if God decided tomorrow that it's time to make God's presence known to me, I'd be more than happy to say hello.  So, from the perspective of someone like you, someone who believes, wouldn't it make more sense to say that God has given up on me than the opposite? 

That may very well be true, but what of it? It makes no difference whatsoever, as far as one's faith is concerned, if it can't be known?  Unless one believes it.  But then, believing in that doesn't make one a Christian, right?  Because being a Christian requires many many more beliefs that can't be shown or known except by more belief... and so it goes...  I just don't see the point, that's all.  What is the point, in your opinion?

Hmmm, this would presume that you know what my search looked like from the outside in. But you simply can't know that, can you?

My last spiritual director was an Evangelical pastor with whom I spent time in prayer throughout the months we met for spiritual direction. I would call that inner stillness and waiting, wouldn't you?  And just last weekend I was on a silent retreat in a Baptist Retreat center called King's Fold (you can even look it up, it's beautiful http://www.kingsfoldretreat.com).  

So, you see, I'm no stranger to stillness and waiting.  And it's brought me exactly to where I am now.  

But regardless of what my actual experience was - and I chose to share it with you willingly - in the future, I'd appreciate that you would not presume to know anything about my inner life, though.  It's just not polite to think you know something you simply can't.

Cheers,

Agnieszka

EDIT: King's Fold was founded by Baptists but it is not longer associated with just that denomination, so anyone is welcome.

Christianity is not about converting people; daminng those who don't convert; those who reject it; those who are convinced by it.  The damnation is for those who hear the word and turn away.  This does mean those of us who sit in pews all our lives and have doubts or just plain disagree with much of "it" are damned either.  I know a clergy person who no longer believes in God because they feel God turned his back or somehow was no longer present by the fact a close relative had died despite prayer, personal sacrifice and great medical help.  This person no longer thinks Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour.  Despite this the person continues as clergy in a Christian church.  This is the turning away from scripture that could lead to possible damnation.  None of us is judge of that.  For people who don't want to believe don't.  Those who preach but don't believe are hyprocritical.

I wonder if the rejection "I don't believe in that stuff" isn't more about the stories.  Does "stuff" mean  all the recipes for more peaceful living ie. the teachings on how to behave and treat others along with the stories -I don't think so.

Specifically, what is "stuff"

Anne, I've hear the word, and I think it's some of the most embarrassingly outlandish stuff ever committed to paper.  The damnation part, for whatever infraction, is just hilarious.  And you last sentence above doesn't make sense.

Being "mad at God" and claiming you no longer believe in Him is known around here as "pulling a Serena".  It is a self-contradictory position.

That said, we've also discussed clergy who no longer believe but continue in their capacity, without "coming out of the closet".  I'm sure there is much concern from a member of the clergy who no longer believes, that this is all he or she knows.  Leaving your faith in this case also potentially means leaving your job.  Unless you're Gretta and you are honest, in which case you just have other clergy calling for your head on a platter.  Lovely.

Jeremiah 29:13  You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

​Deuteronomy 4:29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.

​

Interesting responses to an honest search... in one sense what is being rejected is the most modern philosophical perspective which underpins both supernatural theism and some forms of atheism -  There are other ways of speaking of awe and sense of a moreness to our experience.  Mike gives us an illustration of that process of being open to a beauty that transcends experience.  It is like the moment when a piece of music raises the hair on the back of the neck. Some would reduce that moment to some brain activity - or some supernatural moment - but neither is a satisfactory answer to this sense of beauty that moves to connect, to leave our body, to connect to something larger than self, to connect to others around us, that shared moment when the music created a blessed moment and we we felt at one with the players and others listening.

It is hard to listen to beauty that is beyond us, and language never fully captures the experience, but we know there is something outside us, speaking to us, if we but listen.

There are many images that seek to capture that transcendent moment, paganism is one, flawed  supernaturalism is another ( and that will die), some forms of atheism capture it, and there are other models or metaphors for love supreme that is in us and moves through us, and is beyond us.  It takes time to find the image that makes sense of the reality of some transcendent moments.  It is a journey and some of us have gone from a rejection of supernaturalism to atheism to a more satisfactory image of God in who we live, act and have our being.  Others stay in the rejection and that is fine when they live life full of love and beauty, finding those things in life that speak of love supreme without ever naming it.

Sadly, it appears that this scripture just simply isn't true.

Unless, by quoting it, you mean to imply that I did not "look for (God) with all (my) heart and all (my) soul"...   Well, I did seek with all my heart and all my soul.   And I wasn't dishonest in my seeking, or disbelieving on purpose, or trying to be manipulative...  

I was simply hoping that the faith I grew up with, rejected, came back to with an open mind and an open heart would somehow take hold of my life, that it would sink into my life and have meaning.   Many people with whom I shared my quest over the years can attest to that, pastors and priests and ministers and spiritual directors and spiritual friends... people of great faith and people with a great many years of experience and wisdom.  Thankfully, none of them tried to threaten or accuse me of not being sincere enough.  I hope you are not doing that because it would be callous of you to say the least.

I have no explanation for God's absence or the absence of some sort of experience, some sort of "aha" moment, some sort of way in which everything I had attempted to make real for me simply would become real, by some power other than my own will-power which failed again and again.  And I have no explanation as to why none of the traditions and beliefs and aspects of church teaching are simply unbelievable to me and I can not make myself believe them.

It is what it is and now I want to live this incredibly amazing life as best as I can. Maybe God is in it, maybe not.  It just doesn't matter anymore. 

worked for me 

That may be true or it may not be true.  I'm not going to live my life as if it were true because I don't see any reason to live that way or to think that way.  A truly loving God has no need to threaten.

But, your argument begs another question:  I've heard the message, I've heard it a million times, I've repeated it to myself.  And it doesn't make sense to me, it is unbelievable, and no matter how hard I've tried I can't be convinced of it.  Not because I have some other agenda or have something to prove.  It just doesn't make sense.  There are way too many unknowns and "unknowables".    

Congratulations.

I totally believe you , I was the same, Looking at Jesus hanging on a cross in front of a church, not knowing of God is real or not, listening to the pastors or priests sermon. 

Finally , I went directly to the source , at his Throne, 3 months for me , boy did I find Him, that night , 4 hrs in His Presence.

I know Him because of the relationship, not because a pastor has good arguments for God 

There are always going to people who will quote the bible AT you and tell you that you just haven't found Him yet and He's always in your heart, that His love will flow through you like a raging river etc, etc etc. And you know what? That might not be true for you. It certainly isn't for me.

And you probably aren't going to suddenly experience "evil" because you have turned away from religion. That is just...I have no words. It's just not going to happen.

I have the words - it's fear mongering, it's ugly, and it's immoral.  And, in Internet lingo, it's "weaksauce".  There are plenty of words for this tactic.

Agreed, well stated. I am overcome with evilness right as we speak (head cold) and I'm just shaking my head at the above. "I don't want to scare you...." Oh, brother.

Thankfully, the good news is that I am not even remotely threatened by the attempts at fear mongering. There are so many real life threats out there... Why worry about imaginary ones? :-)