Yes, we need to enhance our humanity. But, to me, this means awakening to and enhancing our divinity or spirituality.

I think we are innately divine, albeit unaware of it. We are not biological beings aspiring to a spiritual existence, we are spiritual beings living a biological existence.

I think John Shelby Spong speaks a refreshing message that's been a long time coming. And of course, he's not the only one with this view of God, he's just one of many who are starting to wake up to one of the biggest deceptions in history. God is not a Christian, a Hindu, a Moslem or a Jew; these are human constructs and only serve to limit what God is. And Jesus didn't come to save humanity, He came to show us the way to salvation. Simply saying the words "I believe in Jesus" will not buy your way into God's Kingdom, but seeing the humanity, all of humanity, as One just might.

Serendipitous! There was a good article by Spong today that I read earlier-just before I saw this thread but didn't have time to write-in the Huffington Post about the Gospel of John, and I am paraphrasing but he says it was never meant to be taken literally and he feels it's not about God entering man in the person of Jesus as much as it illustrates man's oneness with God. I can only post the mobile link not the proper version right now but it's in today's 'paper' is you go to huffington. Yeah, I sense he's onto something. You can feel the tide moving in that direction- with so many of us fed up and dismayed with what exclusivism when it goes to extremes, can lead to, and even the Pope giving a nod to atheists, and so many identifying with spiritual but not religious, interfaith cooperation, etc. Christ is within and among all of us- that unitive energy Christ represents. And one day there won't be exclusive dogma to seperate humans from other humans, I hope!

Btw, I didn't get a chance to watch the vid yet- so my comments are about the article (which was about the book iwonder mentioned that I read shortlu before I saw this thread) I will be able comment more about it once I watch it all- I appreciate what I have read/ heard so far about him.

Always been an admirer of Spong and his views - refreshing.  I like the idea of God unfolding....our consciousness developing and maturing. 

That's why process theology is appealing.

I think it is difficult for us to accept our divinity, perhaps because that makes us feel arrogant or presumtuous, but I think God wants us to awaken to our possibilities - how we can be "the change in the world" - perhaps something we are afraid to embrace because it demands our maturity and a huge commitment.

Absolutely. God's intimately present is all we are.

Can't think ... not allowed ...

Too close to knowledge and you know what the bible has to say about knowledge ...

Don't climb that tree you capricious ole goat!

Snakes don't climb mountains?  Ever been in a conference with some extreme CEO's ...?

And you'd be surprized what goats can climb it they believe there is something there to be consumed ... why we have Peter Prin. ... a half-cocked ideom ... that many don't know what they are rising to ... the crossing therefore is as Tau giving idio-T, a relative of the Caduces as word will heal a stripped mind ... rye soul? Hoo'd fall for that ...

The pits of humours in ancient British sol' ... which King James thought nasty; that all people didn't think as he ... so he gave they the word interpreted from something he didn't foresee ably Gnoe ... he hated Hebrew! Loved cute burds as attached to buoys ...

You must admit it is ambiguous and can be used for grand metaphorical ambiguity ... or thus saying what you feel so no one will know truly that you are in opposition to love without clues (or Q'luce). Then JS Spong wrote a book about the 4th gospel derived from Lucien as Luke-warm belief in the bath or brain wash'n ... that some call catharsis ... Mark Twain just referred to it as white wahl'n ... the search for a blank soul ... un corrupted by previous crap? Isn't that a devious way out of passionate commitment ... thinking your way about ID?

Must be an unseen understanding ... like subtle truth? That's sublime ... like A'Donis losing his marbles ... and there he was darkly exposed ... it is rumoured that A'Donii is carved out of black stone ... like the one in Arabia that gathers pilgrims each year as John wayin under that script on the surface that forms an image of what's hidden there ... heh pilgrim!

And they continued their travel through space even though it was unconscious drift ... sort of subliminal motions? Mostly unbelievable as people demand not to know ... religiously ... and so beit---Pi Car Dosis! Oz; is power, is; just is ... that's the way it beas ... then comes the abstract ... what is in complete ... complete is when it is all gathered together ... leading to Canan! Hebrew dismbiguity about Big Bang Theosis!

Al things are approximately true to keep God thinking from out there ... and chi dreams ... on a secular basis causing many splits not A'B'D thing if you know a raw bit of 'ebre ... go ponder the origins of that word as recessive ... the retreat of time ...

Thanks, all, for your responses.  I can relate to what he says about the institutional church as a control tactic... I do remember in my younger days being threatened with loss of my eternal salvation if I dared raise too many questions...  We were not encouraged to think, just believe. I can still remember how freeing it was when I doscovered that there was more to being faithful than 'believing six impossible things before breakfast...'

I enjoy listening to Spong on occassion. I don't always agree, but that just invites an opportunity to explore or defend my positions. In this video in particular, I find myself disagreeing with his explanation for "born again", so now I will ask myself why?

I don't agree that hell doesn't exist. I am not talking about fiery fictional depictions- I don't know about eternity, I can't fathom a God sending someone there eternally for the consequences of decisions during a short life not well understood. I can't think that far- but hell exists here. Look at Syria. Look at the consequences of ignorant human decisions throughout history. There are many good things about Earth but it isn't utopia for millions, even billions of people- and a state of evil does exist- so it's a rather glib position to say otherwise when taken by those of us who've never been through that kind of hell. Good spirit/ energy, and bad energy/ spirit does exist and human beings are carriers and facilitators of it. To negate hell negates the experiences of people going through it here and now. What happens on earth is a reflection of what happens in the non-material universe, the behaviour of ourselves as material beings allows us to recognize it here and now. If we were able to detach from how we feel about the behaviour of humans and take a wide angle view- unfortunately we I think we look more parasitic- dog eat dog- than complimentary and sustaining toward one another and the planet. We are drivers, on behalf of the greater whole called God- of what that reflection looks like and I believe we're in it together. It's not just about individual salvation. I don't believe that we will escape negative consequences individually as long as the collective suffers- our brothers, sisters, and children to come. It's about what we contribute to the greater whole that shapes it in a heavenly or hellish way. So, I believe hell is here-potentially, and heaven is here, potentially. As much as it is 'out there' in the abstract universal mind. Depends on our collective choices. I believe we are at a crossroads where we are beginning to recognize the necessity of doing good, renewal, for the collective whole- born again is a state of "having been renewed'- and the individual is entwined with the collective. And there is a gestation period of going through the pains. I do believe we have choices about how that rebirth turns out by how well we care for each other through the "pregnancy". And it has always been this way when the tides of change are turning- momentous times in history. Hope my metaphors make sense. My position about hell is probably similar to that of Martin Luther King when he recognized we were heading that way as a human race- or not- depending on what we do as a human race. Good will prevail as long as we allow the life giving good within us to prevail. It's in God's hands, which is made up of (and more than) all of us.

Must say "hi" to iwonder. You are missed around here.

I have read a few books written by Spong. I found him quite likeable and refreshing. I think one poster on here use to refer to Spong as sponge I don't think they meant it as a compliment but I think it could be considered a compliment when you think of a sponge you think of it absorbing much.

Thank you crazyheart.  You are very sweet.

I do pop in from time to time, but I don't much like participating in flame wars, so I try to steer clear when the silliness starts flying around.  I can think of better ways to spend my time.

I have a great interest in Progressive Christianity and I have a strong background in science, so I occasionally will comment on one of those topics.  However I tend to bail out when the unreasoned circular arguments about scientific topics start to rear their heads - especially when evolution and creationism are discussed by some well intentioned folks who unfortunately have no idea what they are talking about.

"The Gospel also exaggerates its details, once more I believe, to counter any attempt to read it literally. "

--Messr Spong

"One must learn how to ride a bike before one starts thinking outside the box"

--some wiseguy

"Green ideas dream furiously"

--Washy washoe

Spong, like Jesus, would be killed by present day Christians if he was suspected of being able to do miracles. He is way too holy for Christians to allow to live.

Let me give you one of the links I particularly like.

Those who believe in the bible as the WORD should listen and learn.

Regards

DL

Don't question not'n ... don't be outside the box!

How does one reconcile that with seek and ye shall find? Is stuff behond the box more interesting than what's in the box? If you could see it going ... you'd believe in the Dan's ... nut'n butte ...

Sae Cular incarnation of L'uv .. the physical expression of what went on inside space of thinking ... the elusive mind?

Do you know how many people do not believe in imagination, abstracts and other stretches of the neuroplastic brae-in ... it can be altered from a superego state as in the sectarian crises ... a pas'n state of psychethche'd proportion that is experienced as blow'd all over dah place ... storm or mental disruptive process? The sort of thing that impresses the deeper reaches of soul ... old meme's?

If you've ever gone there you might know what I mean ... and yet parents try and protect their children from the power of love by telling them it's bad outside church ... where many souls are really wrecked ... having been told thinking is evil ... like the tree in paradise ... casts a gross Shadow ... called tamar in another portion of the myth!

You think that's chaos ... try sects ... I really don't know about anti-social peoples ... eMe ... inside the bo'Ques ... laid right out ... as theSufi experienced the Hebrew as a writ tongue ... a stretch of metaphor beyond anything ...

If you can't call it base phoqah ... would core bell be OK as close to the centre of gravity or just a visible attraction that those who couldn't enjoy would entitle A'B'D ...

Then they'd trya and make money on it as ancient lawyers of the church ... faere ass't seize ...