I discovered I was primarily attracted to men when I was a young age. For many years I was in denial, and was miserable. I pretended be straight, but finally could not deal with it any longer. I came out.

Interesteringly enough, coming out did not have me change my values. Through support groups, I met many other gay Christians who were either celibate or married to someone of the opposite sex and were happy and content with themselves. I learned that most important is to be content with yourself.  I "came out" to my very conservative congregation. To my surprise, they accepted me and boied me up.  Life has never been better.

It often seems to me that a gay conservative Christian often has to chose between his sexuality and his religion. Either he needs deny his sexual orientation and pretend to be straight or deny his religious convictions and pursue same-sex relationships.

I feel the gay community is not very friendly towards conservative Christians in general, but particularly to gay ones. Shouldn't the gay community be welcoming of all gays, not just those who believe same-sex relationships can be moral?

I listen to the debate - one side saying that no gay can find fullfillment unless they pursue same-sex relationships and the other side saying every gay would be more fulfilled by abandoning same-sex relationships.  Is there a middle ground?  Can we just be gay and then have the choice what type of lifestyle we want to lead without either side forcing their views on us.

Anyway, I thought here would be a good place to start a discussion about how to gap the difference between conservative and liberal gays.

I blogged about this a couple days ago. http://joshuajohanson.blogspot.com/2009/04/i-agree-with-gay-rights-but.html

it's a very good place to start the discussion.  I enjoyed your perspective!  Thank you for the feedback.

In my experience, I've never been one to be apart of the "gay community".  I've always just been myself.  I've been to the bars, but that was never really my scene, or my fiancee's.  With regard to religion, I've shied away from the church (Catholic) feeling ostracised and neglected.  It's funny because though I'm gay, my morals and values are very conservative.  I don't believe in abortion.  I believe in embracing family values (though the concept of family is ever changing), etc.  My condition to getting married was that it needed to be done in a church.  Seeing as we can't get married in a Catholic Church, I turned to the United Church.  They were very very very accepting.  Never once did I feel out of place.  I felt welcome and for the first time in a long time, being in the church felt like home.  I felt like I'd returned to a loving home (United) away from home (Catholic).  Moreover, I felt the need to be married in a church.  I wanted the religious ceremony and symbolism.  I need to feel God's presence and love, while I make that type of committment.  I pray that one day the Catholic church will come to accept me and my soon to be husband.  I welcome the day they no longer view homosexuality as "intrinsically disordered"!  Having said that, Jesus never once said anything about homosexuality.  Had He, then things might be different in my eyes.  Christ's message was "Love one another".  So simple, yet we continually screw it up!  Love doesn't hurt.  My love for my fiancee doesn't hurt, it shouldn't.  Afterall, aren't I just doing as Christ taught?  Now there are some that will continue to resite other parts of the Bible where homosexuality is morally wrong or an abomination.  Well...... according to the bible, Women wearing mixed blends of fabric are an abomination soooo.... where is the logic?  I do believe that it is open to interpretion and that we all need to be respectful of each others view.  I guess that's why God gave us free will!  Or, why we live in a free country!  We can choose to do things as we see fit.  I thank God that I live my life free from selfdestructing homophobic views.  I thank God that I have the self esteem to understand the difference.  Thank God. 

 SO i hear where y'all comin from and yess eveyone does need the lord but 

but you guys are practicing is a sin a direct violation of the lords law i mean 

there is no gay christian it's gay or christian  pick one and no matter what the lord will

love you cause your his children but he won't like that you are sinning

I welcome your opinion and I find no need to justify me relationship to anyone.  God understands my intentions.  God understands who I am.  I accept the Lord Jesus Christ into my life!  Part of that, to me anyways, means that I accept myself for who I am as a person.  At no point did I speak about sex!  Do you realize that?  What the Catholic Church or Evangelicals tell me is that "God Loves the person, not the act!".  Well, I can have a relationship and remain celebate!  I love my fiancee, the same way my straight brothers and sisters love their partners, just without the sex!  I CAN love my future husband, spiritually, mentally and physically without breaking any of these "abominations"!  Can I not?

Greetings, thebgf.

Just want to thank you for starting this group and to offer my support to you for this worthwhile effort.  Rest assured you are not alone.

God's Blessings.

Just wanted to throw my support behind the position that God does not hate gay people just because they are gay.  That being said, I am a bit of a prude and think there are probably lots of things about our sexual behaviour, gay or straight, that God can find reason to disaprove of.  It saddens me when people use the Bible to buttress a position condeming homosexuality and homosexuals in a blanket fashion.  None of the references scripture are clearly about homosexuality as we understand it today.  It is not surprising that Leviticus' records an ancient Hebrew condemnation of "men lying with men."  I have no problem with such pronouncements, because I think the Bible is honestly recording what ancient believers felt God was demanding of them. The Bible is, among other things, a record of the stumbling responses of God's people down through the ages to seek to understand God's perfect moral demands.  It does not simply record these deamnds as some think (how could it if it was to convey any true history), but also aspects of the sincere but ultimately false attempts of his people to understand what true goodness demands.  The two processes are mixed together in a way that only a wholeistic reading informed by the spirit can reveal.  In other words, part of what it shows is how the quest to understand God's laws is an ongoing process in which God sticks with us despite our continual misunderstanding and inability to properely grasp his/her perfect laws.  If one rejects this aspect of the story, then an important and uplifting aspect of the Bible must be ignored, which is a sad omission and not properly respectful of the multiple levels of story telling going on in it.

Just to let everyone know.... there were some posts that were deleted either by the host (Wondercafe) or by the individual himself.  So when reading my posts, please do not think that I am merely having a discussion with myself!  LOL.  I'm not crazy yet!  Though to some, it would be debatable.  Anyway.. I welcome all opinions and discussions on this topic.  Thanks Everyone... Yours, Michael.

@ Roballz:

I don't mean to be argumentative but I find it strange that you consider Lev 20:13 to be the "Lords Law".  I'm not a Levitical priest nor am I a Jew under Babylonian rule... Those are for whom those Levitical texts were written.  Which Jesus said he came to fulfill and thus we are bound by HIS law.  After all he is the LORD, is he not?  What were his words on sin?  I believe he puts it best in John 8:7 you may want to have a look at that.

 [end chat @ Roballz]

Along the same lines of archaic laws, I'd check your closet. Deut. 22:11 condemns those who wear blended fabrics.  Sorry to those Queens out there - no cotten-poly blends. And if you have kids Deut .21:18 prescribes death to rebellious kids but only after you bear false witness on them to the leaders of the town... wait... isn't THAT one of the 10 Commandments?  Strange how the Bible controdicts itself eh?

What does Jesus state about homosexuality?  As a fellow Christian I'm sure you can help me in my search for something Roballz.  I'm serious and in no way being snide or sarcastic.  I have yet to find anything from Jesus but love and acceptance of ALL.  That won't work very well if we're to follow the archaic laws written in a different time for a VERY different people who didn't know God like we now know God.

For God so loved the world that he gave...  Regardless of what or whom He gave, He GAVE.  God is a God of love who protects not just the bold or those who claim they know Him inside and out but allso the meek and simplehearted.

I am Gay and Christian.  Just like you are a who you are and Christian.  However, I fail to see being Gay as a sin.  I see it as a gift from the God who created (me), is creating and will continue creating as long as God exists.

ALSO - @ thebgf :  Thanks for creating this group.

Amen!  Couldn't have said it better myself, CDNRXBY!  Thanks for joining!

thebgf -- I saw those posts and they were pretty nasty IMO, so I flagged them as offensive.  Admin must have thought they were offensive as well and removed them.

The one post from Roballz is mild in comparison to the others, so I didn't flag it.

Hope that's ok.  No one missed anything worthwhile.

Ninj

I was going to ask what offensive posts there were.  I picked up on something between thebgf's posts but, they were deleted by the time I joined.   I personally don't find Roballz post offensive at all.  I'm sure he realizes he's just as much a "sinner" as we supposedly are.  I just don't see how one "sin" outweighs another! :-)

Had I realized that they would have been valuable, I wouldn't have flagged them.  I was personally very hurt by them and assumed others would be as well. 

Used words like "sodomy" and grouped being gay on the same magnitude as rapists and other criminals etc....

Roballz was only responsible for one of the deleted ones.  Someone else also added two.

And like I mentioned, the one I didn't flag is very tame in comparison.

The creator of this group might remember the details better.

Ninjafaery:

I'm  happy you had them removed if they were offensive.  I'm sure they were "insightful and well thought out comments from well informed and sensible Christians" - OR - they were total dicks who have no concept of human decency.  I'm banking on the latter! :-)

Thanks for the insights as to the comment's content.

I wanna be a sistah too! :-)

Some people relate homosexuality to child molestation. Oddly enough that's not biblically inaccurate.  Many times the Greek word "arsenokoitai" is used in the letters from Paul.  It generally refers to male pagan temple prostitues with whom the men of the time would have sex in an attempt to get closer to the God they were worshipping.  IE having sex with a temple prostitue at the temple of Zeus was thought to be pleasing to Zeus.  However, when "arsenokoitai" combined with the adjective "malakoi" (as it is in 1 Cor. 6:9) it comes to describe abusive pedophiles or hebephiles.  This is not how the wonderful people at Zondervan translated that when they released the NIV. They chose "homosexual" because the prostitutes were having sex with men...  That has now become "biblical" but theologians don't 100% concur that homosexuals were the people Paul was trying to condemn.

A really interesting site which seems to cater to both sides of the debate is this:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/homarsen.htm

Ok CDNRXBY, you can be a sista too.  Interesting viewpoint!  I never knew that!  Thanks for the info. 

Here is a web site that I know is to be a great source of information and comfort for the GLBT community:

www.christiangays.com 

Cheers,

Frankielad

What did Christ say about transexuals and sexchanges? just a question as ive had a sexchange and was asked to leave the Catholic church and never return.

To my knowledge, Christ said nothing about transexualism.  Christ accepted the rejects of society during his life.  He was with the prostitutes, poor, etc.  Today not much has changed.  He wouldn't be with the religious or holier than thou peps... We.... GLBTT2QS community are also among the rejects in today's society.  So my dear transexual friend.... God loves you for who you are!  Never doubt that.  I have come to really enjoy the United Church.  I'm sure you will too.

In Pride,

Michael.

From my experience/observation/study, the spectrum of sexuality and the spectrum of liberal-conservative worldviews are exactly equal in breadth and depth.

Sadly - and surprisingly - I have found that the 'liberal' community can be no less dogmatic and narrow-minded about its membership than the 'conservative' community. In my experience, I have also found that all along the spectrum of sexuality, both the 'far left' and the 'far right' and all points inbetween have shown themselves to be equally  strict in their  'membership' standards and equally quick to paint themselves as the 'uber special' statistical minority which guarantees and solidifies a status as 'other.'  We get to brag about this status because it supports how 'special' we are. (Don't all of God's children want to be 'special'?  That's why each group along our individual spectrum have so many official and unofficial 'membership' rules.)

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Just wanted to let everyone know... I got married on the weekend!!! It was wonderful.

I haven't checked in here in awhile, bgf, but I just wanted to give you and your partner my sincerest wishes for a long and happy life together.

Bright Blessings.

I'm not sure I follow you Melchizedek.

Could you please expand on what you mean and how it applies here?

Sorry I missed checking this group for awhile, but I'm glad you're here.

Hi Stefanie,  I was listening to the radio the a couple of months or so ago.  They were talking about and interviewing transexuals in Iran.  In Iran sexual reassignment surgery is paid for by the state.  To me, I am who I am and who I am is how God made me.  I'm sorry for your trouble with the church it just shouldn't be that way.

Congrats on your wedding!!!!!!  Hope you have a great life together.

Hello evry one,

I'm just trying to accept me as I am. it is dificult but I thing it is never too late to gain our own identity; especially, when you came from countries where being gay is a sin and the discrimination is almost criminal.

I hope to find friends gays and christian to get started my new life

So glad you posted here.  I'm sorry to be so late answering you since I don't look at this thread very often.  Hope you're still reading and welcome. 

Just wanted to say happy holidays to everyone with jesus church is pretty important to us this time of year