Some of the nicest and kindest people I know are gay. I support them 100% and believe they should participate as equal members of our society in every way.

Thomas :)

I believe that people are people and it doesn't matter who one loves as long as one finds someone to love and be loved.

LB

At the touch of love everyone becomes a poet.      Plato

I'd have to say I am indifferent :) I have absolutely no problems with gay people, and I think they should be allowed to be "married" but I'm not so behind the whole "Pride Parade" stuff. Just my 2 cents :)

I'm gay, and the parades even make me cringe.

The gay gene persists. There is a reason for it. Thank science.

I'm with everyone else who's psoted so far. I have absolutely no problems with anyone who's GLBTQ.

i support equal rights for homosexual people. 

i have to admit, though, that it still takes me aback when i see the outward expression of love between two gay people... its still so new for me.  its not that i comment on it to them or anything, but i'm afraid that i am probably staring... i'm working hard to change that. 

i also march in the gay pride parade here in ottawa, and i find it a WONDERFUL event.  it is very family oriented here, as there are just so many same sex couples who have now adopted children and are bringing them to the event.  gone are the days when the pride parade was a bunch of guys in leather cavorting around on a 40 ft. penis float... now, its local businesses, churches, and organizations like 'pink triangle youth', all festooned with rainbows.  its so much fun!!!  the best part, for me, is that my organization, the childrens aid society, is APPLAUDED as we go... normally, we have to hide, as we get trashed in the media.  but the pride parade is different... its not unusual for children along the route to point at us and say things like 'thats where i'm from!', and for their parents to stand and clap for us.  i get chills just thinking about it.

Janis Ian has a song about Mathew Shephard and she says something like "it is not who you live but that you love that is important". I agree with that sentiment.

As for the pride parades, I used to work with a lesbian woman in Toronto who said that the parade was the time when she felt absolutely included and among like-minded people. That helped me to realize that it was important.

I must admit that I was disappointed the first time I saw a gay pride parade in this city - it seemed so 'sex in your face' type of thing.  I wonld have been grossed-out if had been hetrosexual 'six in your face' too.

I guess I was expecting something different.  Perhaps floats depicting a bit of the history of homosexuals in society.  Perhaps a bit celebrating the accomplishments of homosexuals in various fields.  Perhaps some of the doctors, lawyers, businessmen, civil servants, professors, and others in this city carrying plaques that proudly stated who they are.  And yes, perhaps some couples just walking along holding hands and waving - and some family groups waving baloons from their floats.

It's okay to be gay......  I was very homophobic when I was a teenager, but I got over it when I got to actually know some people who are gay.  The thing I noticed most about gay people is how much more open they are than othersto people who are different.  I think maybe because they get persecuted from time to time for their sexual orientation.  Just be proud of who you are and be true to yourself...  those are very important.

Have you found many people here to be homophobic?   I have found WC to be mostly friendly to GLBTQ people, except for a few people who tend to stand out in the otherwise peaceful crowd.  

Hi mixedtape...how people express themselves sexually is of no importance to me...unless they are in my bedroom.   

And that is the key.  We can not understand what we do not know, and we can not know what we do not open ourselves up to see.

My experience has been that most people are the same at the core.  We share a desire to pursue our dreams, find someone to love and discover our little corner of peace and happiness in the world.

How each of us gets there is what adds colour to the tapestry of life and I, for one, would hate to live in a monochrome world.

LB

We live in deeds, not years: In thoughts not breaths; In feelings, not in figures on a dial. We should count time by heartthrobs.     

David Bailey

CURE IT WITH FIRE!!!

No, I'm messing with you. It's all right. ~_^

hey hey hey, is that an invitation, penney?!?!?  hubba hubba!!!

Similar to ABPenny's point, I would say that the only way your sexuality is my concern is if you and I were...  (FTR that is not an invitation).  What you do in private and with other consenting adults is between you, such consenting adults and God.  The only people who have the smallest right to comment are those people who know you well.

I don't know whether being gay is a sin or not.  Frankly, that is not my decision to make.  All I need to do is give people the benefit of any doubt that they are OK with God.

You need to make your own decision.  Further, I think you need to remember that God loves you, even if you are wrong on this issue and pretty much all others.  Your position with God is not up for democratic debate.  Don't worry about any consensus.  Just do what you need to do!

I am in the belief that sexuality is a diverse set of characteristics which manifests in folks in various ways.

Picture ranges of the following characteristics, all of which can even shift within one lifetime for an individual

homosexual <> heterosexual

celibacy <> promiscuity

physical/active <> mental/cerebral

rare <> frequent

hurtful <> healing

single partner<> multiple partners

monogomaus <> open relationship(s)

As such, homosexuality is just one of the chacteristics which combined with others help to define a person.

So, do I accept, of course, just like I would a heterosexual.....within the same characteristic set. 

I believe that the Spirit made the world in all its glory thus the Spirit made both straight and gay people and is pleased with all of us exactly the way we are.  ANy other doctrine in my opinion is simply human ego speaking - human being believing that they know better than the Spirit.  Boy does that ever sound preachy but you know I honestly believe that there is nothing more beautiful than love (emotional and physical) between people. 

Gay Pride parades are very important as they are a time for GLBT people and their family and friends to get together to celebrate in public.  We are an invisible discriminated minority and often overlooked.  It is good for the majority to see government officials, police officers, military officers, bankers, computer tech, municipal workers, bankers, lawyers, doctors, families, firemen and women, teachers etc etc all of the normal people that we rely on daily who are either GLBT or supporters.  And it is a happy fun atmosphere - we can all celebrate and have fun together.  I have to say and I don't know how to change this - but even as a gay person - I would like some of the more extreme S and M exhibitions to tone it down a little knowing that there are children there.  In those instances it has nothing to do with being GLBT though, because often the participants are straight but find a welcoming place in the Bi community.  Gotta say, I love the feathers and the disco music!

Elisabeth- you have said it so beautifully. How can I possibly think of anything to say after that? I guess I'll just kind of echo what you've said. I too think that love between 2 people is beautiful. Whether that's between 2 women, 2 men, or a man and a woman is irrelevant to me. All that matters to me is that people find someone to love and be loved. I really wish there were less discrimination against the GLBT community. I really don't get that, but maybe that's just me. I could care less what someone's sexual orientation is and I don't even think of that when I'm talking to someone.

I agree with what you've said about Gay Pride Parades. I live near Vancouver and they have a great parade every year. I think it's a wonderful chance for the GLBT community to all come together, but I do have to say that some of the floats etc. are a bit overtly sexual and not necessarily family appropriate, but I do always enjoy the parade.

Nick

I am a Christian, and I will say that the Bible refers to a whole lot of other things which you probably have no problem doing...yet for some reason you have chosen to pick on this one piece of scripture and take it literally and hold an old text to todays measure.

There are those here who will gladly discuss that item with you ...and go toe-to-toe with you on every piece of scripture you throw, and throw 20 more back at you.

I would rather remind you that the greatest of all messages was love.  That Jesus's message was to include the "other" , those who are on the fringe. Those who are shunned.  If you are a Christian, then maybe you can reconsider your approach.

Maybe you can also reconsider loving yourself. You will not go to hell if you are a homosexual.  In fact, it is probable that by denying yourself you are committing the greatest of all sins....for you are not being true to yourself, so how can you be true to God.

if you are a literalist, then, consider that we are made in God's image....yes? If so, then God didn't make a mistake when God made you.  God made you knowing that you would love someone of the same gender.

I am not a literalist; however, I still believe that you are loved...and deserve to  be loved in return, as you are....

hey nick... leviticus forbids cutting your hair and wearing polycotton blends, too... how does god feel about that, do you think?? 

hey nick, might this be your interpretation of the bible?

Nick...you don't want to sound offensive?  Then stop it....

Nick, I'm just going to be horribly blunt and call bullshit.

Ditto.

 someone summed it up in another thread;

"your sexuality means as much to me as what you take in your coffee"

its preference. maby thats how i like it too, maby its not. that doesnt mean we cant sit down together and enjoy a cuppa joe. (whos up for a coffee)

cheers

JH

Jah Hardway - I would compare it more to something like lefthanded.  Its something the person is born with.  They can deny it and try to change - at one time small children who showed any sign of lefthandness would have that arm tied to their side and be forced to use the right hand.  Some of these adapted, but some developed other problems, or reverted back to their left hand as soon as it was freed.

Nowadays - who cares if a person writes with their left hand.  The president of the US does.  My mother did.  So does my sister.

WHen my kids report that someone at school or church has made a gay bashing remark I tell them to ask that person what they think Jesus was doing with twelve guys. Just to bring some levity to the bigotry at hand.

And sometimes I like to imagine what a heterosexual pride parade might look like. In my case, I'd be there in a terry bath robe and fuzzy slippers. Pretty boring stuff.

Hi everyone,

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

For this we shall go to the original Greek text to further understand what the text is trying to say.

fornicators -

1) a man who prostitutes his body to another's lust for hire

2) a male prostitute

3) a man who indulges in unlawful sexual intercourse, a fornicator

abusers of themselves with mankind -

1) one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual

If you can give me one scripture that proves this wrong then the Bible is contradicting itself making God a liar. Be very careful and actually study the verse before you put it on here.

Much love ,

Nick

Oh and please try not to use foul language. Specially if you call yourself a christian lest you represent the King in a foul way, that also means agreeing with the language.

Love,

Nick

You're an idiot.

hey nick...

here ya go.

Genesis 19: 1-28 - The ancient story of Sodom and Gomorrah

first of all, i want to say that the common reaction to this story ticks me off right from the get go... the fact that lot was going to send out his two daughters to be gang raped by an angry mob, and nobody has a problem with this?!?!? anyways, i digress....

there a few errors in the translation from the hebrew scriptures to the english version we have now that i feel are pretty major to the interpretation... the word that has been translated as intercourse is 'yada', which means 'get to know'. had the author of this scripture wanted to say that the mob wanted to have sexual intercourse with lots visitors, he probably would have used the word 'shakab'. this word denotes sexual activity. the word 'yada' appears in the hebrew scriptures over 900 times, and in every other context is used as meaning to get acquainted with someone. yet, in this particular passage, it somehow was changed to mean 'intercourse'.

therefore, that entire passage should read something more like this... 'where are the mortals who came here tonight?? bring them out here so that we may get acquainted with them.'

now, if you look at it again, there are a few other problems as well... for the story to be a condemnation of homosexuality, the ENTIRE CITY must have been homosexual. this is impossible, but even if it were true, why on earth would lot have sent his DAUGHTERS out to a homosexual male mob??? it states that lots daughters were virgins, and we know that sacrificing virgins was something very common in pagan idol worship. and we also know that lot lived in a pagan city.

elsewhere in the bible, sodom is refered to again, in ezekiel 16...
"Look! This is what proved to be the error of Sodom your sister: Pride, sufficiency of bread and the carefreeness of keeping undisturbed were what happened to belong to her and her dependent towns, and the hand of the afflicted one and the poor one she did not strengthen. And they continued to be haughty and to carry on a detestable thing before me, and I finally removed them, just as I saw fit"

the hebrew word that was translated as 'detestable thing' is towebah, and this word literally translates out as 'to commit idol worship'.

therefore, the problem of sodom and gamorrah isn't homosexuality at all. the sin commited here is idol worship.
______________________________________________

Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13

leviticus is an interesting book. if you look at the context of the time it was writeen, the isrealites were living in a real 'get out there and multiply' kind of time... they were the chosen ones, so they had a duty to be really fertile. therefore, even masturbation was a HUGE sin.
leviticus is also part of the 'mosaic law', which also forbade haircuts, shaving, and wearing clothing with blended fibres, among other things. the law was such that if you broke one law, then you were guilty of breaking them all.

so, for us to use the leviticus passages to condemn homosexuality, we would also be equally condemning people who shave and get their hair cut.

we allow people who shave and get their hair cut to get married, accept sacraments, and share equally in our church, so it doesn't make ANY sense whatsoever to forbid equality to homosexuals based on the levitical text.
__________________________________________
Romans 1:26-27
1 Cor. 6: 9-11
1 Tim. 1:9-11

i've discussed this one on another thread, but basically, the words that translated out as homosexual or 'men who lie with men' in these texts were 'arsenokoites' and 'malakos'.

arsenokoites litterally means 'lift bed', but bible scholars now believe that at the time, it was used to denote a male temple prostitute. malakos litterally translates out as 'spineless', or coward.

now, in my 'new american bible for catholics', there is an asterisk by the term 'homosexual' in these particular passages, which states...

'the term translated as 'practicing homosexuals' refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices with boy prostitutes, i.e.boys or young men who were kept for the purposes of prostitution, a practice not uncommon in the greco-roman world.'

therefore, i'd suggest that the texts above are a condemnation of pedophilia, prostitution, promiscuity, and idolatry, and not at all a condemnation of a consensual, committed homosexual relationship.
________________________________

ronny5...you made me laugh out loud...thanks...hahahahaha!

Umm... actually Ronny, my God does not see me that way, and He knows me better than you do.

But actually if you look at the scripture below you can actually see what the bible says about me and what it says about you.

A wise man fears the Lord and shuns evil, but a fool is hotheaded and reckless.

The wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways, but the folly of fools is deception.

how do you know that your god doesn't see you as an idiot?? 

Heh? Anyone know what happened to Nick's post?  The only reason I ask, is I was going to point out to those who may not have made it to the end...was that Nick stated he was a homosexual, but had successfully denied it...and so thought that others could as well. 

I do not agree with his points...but, I do hope that he finds someway to love himself.  Sometimes it is when we are hurting the most, that we lash out at others.

Well because Holy Spirit guides believers into all truth. He is the mighty councellor and teacher. But only to those who have an intimate relatioship with Him.

Sorry, Pinga. It is hard to keep perspective when people like Nick post. and especially when he posts with hearts.

it's ok, ch.....

it was a piece he put right near the end....and may have really outlined what the issue was.  It looks like his post is now removed..but, just wanted to remind folks....those who are the most outspoken sometimes are hiding the most.

Hi Pinga,

If I had it my way I would have never changed from my ways in fact I would probably call myself chrisitian and I would still be doing the things I always did. But when I entered into God's will and fully, humbly surrendered my life and all to Him, He alone changed me. Do you want me to deny the work of God to you and claim that everything He has done in me is fake? I can't do that, how can I deny what I have experienced. If I could (which I can) go back to my fleshly ways? I would. But I can't, for I have Holy Spirit in me and I don't want to hurt Him by going back. Simple as that.

You know all of you are saying that christians like me are closed minded, but take a look at yourselves for a second. I come here proclaiming what God has done in my life and you guys call me "idiot" and laugh, and say that it can't be, and I'm denying who I am (or was). All I know is what God has done in my life and nobody will take that from or change my mind about it.

If God can change me, can't He do the same for others?

Love,

Nick

Huh?

he does.

its just that you don't recognize it when it happens in different ways than what you experienced, thats all. 

The main problem is, God didn't write Corinthians.  God didn't write Leviticus.  God didn't write Romans.  Jesus never said anything at all against homosexual behavior and neither does the 10 commandments the only words directly attributed to God.  That shows that God isn't the one with a problem, people are.  To say that Paul can speak the words of God is blasphemous, quite frankly.  Who was the son of God, Jesus or Paul?

Souldier you are someone who truly frightens me.  When I read the kind of things that you write I am glad that I am on line and you are not in my church.  I also do not believe that you could possibly have understood the message of Jesus Christ.  Certaintly you may have understood some of the stories of the Old Testament (out of historical contest - maybe speak to Old Testament scholars both Jewish and Christian) and you have come to conclusions on some of the writings that have been attributed to Paul, but those writings that have been attributed to writers attempting to write down the oral traditions of Jesus - I fear that you have missed them.  Your posts are so full of hate and violence.  Is that the "you" that you want the world to see? Is that what you want the world to think Christians are like.  Hate filled, santimonious and exclusionary? Or do you just not care?  Remember at the end of the day we will be judged by our actions and Jesus' last commandment was to Love One another as I have Love You. 

From the looks of your mad ranting in typed words on here....  your god must be a voice in your head, and you need some meds bro.  People like you with your crazy beliefs.......   You throw a couple of bible passages at us and what, we all must now accept homosexuality as "sin"?  Whatever you freak.  The onlt thing I fear is religious nutjobs like you.

The person that started this thread is gay.  You come on here throwing a bunch of bible passages around proclaiming all homosexuals sinners.  End of story.  How is that proclaiming what god has done for you???  That is you proclaiming that you are a bigot.  That's what I got from your post, and that is the reason I called you an idiot..

Actually they are God's beliefs and opinions, not mine. You accept them if you want, but now you know the truth and are not ignorant anymore. So you are going to be accountable to that on the day of Judgement and you will be without excuse.

P.S. whatever you say to insult me, you are actually saying it to God. Because I am His and His property. He created me and by insulting me or ANY created thing you are insulting His creation. So just be careful what you say.

I have been reading this dialogue and am amazed. Remember too that people who are homosexual are also God's creation. Your words are so judgemental and condescending. May you find true peace.

I am not going to even begin to argue about your theology. Wiser minds than mine have tried with no success.

I will pray for you.

souldier/Nick,

That belief that if translation or interpretation of scripture is wrong then God is liar or does not exist, is a really silly little thing. Held too tightly it means that God does not exist or God is a liar, because the Bible has mistranslations and interpretations most agree now that were wrong. Surely you do not think African American slaves should still be in chains, do you? Yet, the Bible does not condemn it or even inhibit it, it regulates it. Is God a liar because we used the Bible to uphold slavery? Does God not exist because the interpretation of those verses were wrong?

Surely you don't believe in slavery based upon race, nationality, social status, and selling people or yourself into human slavery? Does God then die or become a liar?

You quoted 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Where do you see homosexuality in fornicator? Prostitutes can be straight and have gay sex or can be gay and have straight sex. Many faiths and ancient Judaism did not/does not see fornication the same as some Christians do today. A fatwah was recently issued that Muslim women can perform oral sex as long as no semen is swallowed. Torah does not prohibit premarital sex or oral and anal sex.  Fornication to Christian church founders apparently did not mean pre-marital sex or gay sex or oral or anal sex, because church fathers called sex between husband and wife "marital fornication".

What then is fornication? According to the Hebrew Scriptures it was intercourse between a child of Isreal and a Gentile. It was sex with a foreign slave who one cannot marry. Do we think that means you can't go to heaven, today?

How does a person abuse themselves in a loving relationship? If oral and anal sex are not abusive or not prohibited, then how do they become so for certain people?

I can give you many scripture verses to chew on. How about "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

If that does not extend to "whoever", then according to your own formula, God either does not exist or is a big ol' liar.

Peace,

Stevie G