Hi chansen,

What Steven says.  What Claire is going through is par for the course and all things considered, pretty normal.

Folk who study grief are of the opinion that it takes roughly a year for survivors to find the new normal.  Because it will take a year of firsts to come to grips with the reality that Carter is dead.

No matter how much you may have been able to prepare yourself mentally for the day you still have to deal with the reality of living through it.

This year you will celebrate your first birthday without Carter.  Jennifer will celebrate her first birthday without Carter.  Claire will celebrate her first birthday without Carter  All of you will celebrate Carter's birthday without Carter.  That is going to pull this wound wide open again.

Anything that all of you would normally have done with Carter will be done for the first time without him.  There are easily a million ways this loss is going to be felt keenly for a number of months yet.  And truthfully, it has scarred all of you in ways that will be felt for the rest of your lives.  In time it will become more of a dull ache than a fresh raw wound.  It is always going to hurt in some way.

As much as you may have tried to prepare Claire, my guess is that this is the first time that death has been up close and personal for her.  As mentally prepared as we get for the certainty of death having a loved one die still knocks us for a loop.

I have been burying people for 15 years now.  You never don't feel it.  I'm familiar with the terrain and I know how to slog through.  Claire likely hasn't.  You and Jennifer are on terrain that I have never dealt with personally so no matter how comfortable I am with grief, grieving death and dying your path is one I have only observed others walk.  To be completely candid, I'm thankful that I have only observed it walked rarely.

Being as helpful as I can I can only point out that as much as you have already gone through you are not done yet.  And no matter how resigned you may have been to this outcome you still have to live it and that living will not be easy.

You have lots to wade through in the next year or so.  And it won't be neatly in ordered stages like Kuhbler-Ross suggests.  It is more cyclical with multiple forays through various stages.  Somedays you will feel like you have a handle on everything and the next day, you'll turn the corner, see a familiar dent in the fridge and be lost in a torrent of grief.

It isn't going to be pleasant or comfortable for all of you.  That is normal and it does eventually pass.  All of you will get through at different speeds and all of you will deal with different portions of the cycle better or worse than the others.

Claire not wanting to come home is most likely Claire not wanting to embrace the fact that the new normal is one where Carter is only a memory and not a reason for new ones.  Part of her whole identity as a person would have been tied up in being Carter's older sister.  She has had that torn away and now has to find out who she is without Carter.

I know people in their 40's who bury siblings and are knocked sideways by it.  Generally they have been through the whole death and dying process with several family members before that.  They still struggle.

The funeral is not even a week past.  All of you are going to need considerably more time to sort everything out.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Good words John

And if you want to talk beyond WC, give me a call. Really. You've got my number.

I was actually going to send you a private email, but John said most of what I was going to say in it anyway.

Chansen

I'm glad you are receiving such wonderful help from the WC.  I'm adding a video in which some other points regarding the reactions of friends  or others to your loss  is discussed. Its a U.S. based meeting place but you may find some of what the people have to say on the video  helpful in the days ahead.

For those who could not attend, I did a raw conversion of the DVD from the funeral, and uploaded it to YouTube. Forward the video to the 1:30 mark when Steven steps in. I took a quick look at what I read, which was not particularly well done, as I somehow felt compelled to speak quickly and pound the lectern like a debate was taking place. By habit, I suppose.

Hi chansen,

I'm impressed.  While my big fat head is not front and centre it doesn't appear to obscure much.

All things considered.  You did an exceptional job.  Your tribute was honest and quite candid.  Refreshingly so.

I tend to avoid eulogies.  I'll read what others have written I do not myself eulogize simply because one of the biggest complaints/criticisms about clergy doing so is that it becomes painfully evident that the clergy really doesn't know the person they are eulogizing.

As a family member I have experienced that phenomenon and found it to be seriously unhelpful in processing the day.

I have also listened to family members eulogize members of my congregation and I have ended up scratching my head because the person they are honouring is not at all like the person I have sat in council meetings with.

If it is embarrasing for the clergy to deliver a eulogy in which they clearly don't know the deceased how embarrasing must it be for the family member who has so censored the record of their loved one.

I didn't get the impression that you added a lot of varnish to your son's life.

As for the pounding the lectern I pass on this observation from one of my Christian Reformed Professors, "Preachers only pound pulpits when their points are weak."

If you did pound the lectern I didn't notice it.

I was concerned at the number of waterbottles next to Steve's chair.  My personal rule of thumb is that if you need to tank up during then you are probably talking way more than anyone wants to listen.

In Steven's defence he did not take pit-stops to lubricate during his time at the lectern.  Although his liturgical dance at 46:30 was completely unprofessional and had absolutely no redeeming artistic merit.

But more about you and Jennifer.

No parent should ever have to eulogize their own child.  That the two of you were put into the position where your son needed a eulogy is, in a word, unfair.  That said, I stand in awe at your ability to do it and do it well.  You both handled yourselves with dignity and honesty.  You both did an amazing job of a very difficult task.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Thanks.

While I perhaps didn't visibly whack the lectern, the mic picked up the sound of me so much as touching it and made it sound like I was using hand tools up there. I only watched 60 seconds of it, so maybe I got the worst part.

Thank you Chansen.  It is very generous of you to share.  Carter was very special to me - I often felt that I would like to meet him.  And if I were closer I would have attended the funeral.  

I am going to watch the video this evening - uninterupted. 

Just watched the full video. Thank you for sharing it with us chansen. It was a fine service, both appropriate and moving. Everyone did a good job of speaking from the heart.

wow chansen, thanks for putting your video up

sharing in the common human experience

watching that video is an act of worship for me

(((((Chansen and family))))) thank you from my heart, for your generousity as you share this meaningful video.  I could feel the love coming from your hearts through my computer screen.  

Thank you so much for sharing!

In my defence, I was actually informed by Jennifer before the service started that the number of water bottles was directly equivalent to the number of speakers in the service. Thus, only one was mine.

Really? I thought it was quite tasteful and moving.

Agreed.

Thank you for sharing the service, Chansen.  Tears were running down my cheeks throughout.  It was a beautiful, meangingful service.  You and Jennifer did a wonderful tribute to your son.  I admire your courage.  No one should ever have to eulogize their child.  You both spoke with grace and dignity.

Again, thoughts are with you as you travel through this most difficult time.  Take care of each other, and especially Claire.  I liked Steven's words to Claire - "You are still very much a family of four."

"Within your store of memories
he holds a place apart,
For no one else can ever
be more cherished in your hearts."

Chansen, as you spoke, and then Jenn, I kept thinking how I could have listened to you all day, because your love and joy and sorrow were compelling. I kept thinking that if you got one and only chance to talk about your wee boy and be heard and honoured, then take it and run.   And he was bonkers and funny and challenging -which is what makes him Carter.  My kids are dorky in their own way (and I think any parent is waaaayyyy dorkier than any kid) so no point in not laughing about these traits and celebrating them and missing them terribly.  I loved your eulogy, and Jenn's and your neighbours' too - keep talking.  Keep talking.

BTW - Steven, Rev John - wonderful words.  It seemed like an odd place for such pastoral care, but hey- it's the cafe.  All of us on the sidelines, or in position to offer it to others can stand to read these ideas and ponder them.   

Chansen & Jenn- you're in my thoughts tonight, May the evening be gentle to you.

Agreed, the wisdom shared has multiple places to be used today and in the future

Thank you Chansen. I watched the service today. Well done by all concerened.

A hard sad thing and yet the joy of Carter was there too.

May your family be gentle with each other and with yourself as you continue on. (and I did like how God's blessing was snuck in)

Thank you so much for sharing this tribute to Carter here.  It was a wonderful service and very definitely a celebration of his life.

Wow, that video tugs at the old heart strings. Thanks for sharing Chansen and ... God bless.

Tears here on a hot Aussie summer's night.........

"You are still a family of four".

I feel so privileged to have met both the little hero and his hero Dad.........

I just watched the service, and was deeply touched.

There are events in life that are said to be unbearable, but we have to bear them. The death of a beloved person is such an event, and, in this event, it is great to be part of a community that shoulders part of the burden and helps us bear the unbearable.

chansen (& family), I just finished watching the video - thank you, for allowing us the privilege of being invited in this way to share in your celebration of the life of Carter and this good-bye

All who took part in the service shared uniquely their own relationship with Carter, and all did so wonderfully well at it.  To his parents . . . you are amazing.

Well done, Rev. Steven Davis.

Thank you for sharing the video here, chansen. It's a very personal thing to share with all of us.

Chansen, you have been more than generous in sharing your love for Carter with us here at the Cafe.  I feel privileged.  I watched the video last evening.  It was very touching.   A real affirmation of life - no matter how short.

The littlest one went out in a Blaze of Glory .....he DID IT again....( mah do it..)

Wonderful service and everyone spoke very well  with loving feelings.

You'er welcome for the video. Still, I can't watch it, and I'll probably take it down soon. I just thought that people who could not make it should be able to see it if they want. You've all got too much personally invested in his story, to keep it from you when I have the DVD right here. That would be selfish of me.

Thank you chansen for the video.  I had some quiet time to myself yesterday, and am grateful to you that I was able to watch the service.  Indeed, describing Carter as a hero sounds exactly right to me - and in my view the whole chansen family and close friends are heroes too.   Many lives were touched by Carter - impacted, yes - in ways that we know now, and in ways that remain to be seen, and in ways that perhaps will not be seen.  

Hugs to all of you on this cold but sunny day.  Hoping you'll be able to get out skiing soon - I recall it as one of your passions. 

Will you be able to keep the video up until the weekend? I am in a spot where I can't watch it. My only source is my smart phone, and I do not want to rack up data charges, even for Carter. Of course, I will respect your decision. I suspect you may never be able to watch it. My mother died a few months after my wedding. I have still not watched the wedding video after all these years. I'm not sure I could even now....and of course technology has changed in that time....

I'll leave it up at least that long for you.

Thinking of you and your family, Chansen. It has been suggested that you and your wife and daughter keep talking it over . . . I agree with this completely. Good advice. But also feel free to follow your heart and take a break where you can.  

Caring thoughts. (I would say "blessings" but don't want to be a bug.)

With affection . . . p3 

Chansen, have you changed or have we changed..? WonderCafe has helped create miracles.

 and if you don.t believe in miracles WonderCafe has wrought changes.

Thank you for sharing the video! I believe you will continue be a family of four, with one member always present in spirit!  May those wonderful memories give you strength and comfort in the days ahead.

Rev. Steven Davis conducted a secular funeral service for my son.

You tell me.

Wondercafe has brought people of diverse backgrounds and beliefs together. That's not a "miracle", that's "socializing".

The fact is, other than the God question, we pretty much agree on most things, Steven, myself, and many of you. Where religion makes people say monumentally stupid things, those people and I are going to disagree vehemently, and that goes for the evangelicals and for some UCCan ministers here.

But the take-home message should be that you don't have to be religious to be a good person. If the God you believe in, who does not leave any decent evidence of his existence, holds it against me for not believing the unbelievable, then you worship a jackass of a god.

So, to me, maybe God is a jackass and we should all lop off parts of our brains and take our cues from unsafe and airclean33, or God just wants us to be good people and the bible contains a lot of crap that was edited in (and God doesn't care to change it), or another religion got it right, or, the two most likely answers to me, all religion is just people either scamming other people at worst, or some religions aren't scams and are the result of people trying to make sense of their world by invoking god(s) because those answers made sense at the time.

In spite of everything, chansen is back to his old self very quickly. Undoubtedly the result of the superb pastoral care rendered and received!

lmao!

And seriously, list that among your skills. You were amazing. Everyone said so, and if you weren't, I would tell you.

Pretty soon we're gonna have to argue about something here or folks will start to think we're getting too friendly! You wouldn't want that. It could ruin your whole image.

Well, Steven and Craig, I think you're both  bloody amazing - and who in their right mind would argue with an Aussie?

(I mean we have crocodiles, man -eating sharks, redback spiders, box jelly-fish, brown snakes - all can be lethal).......

As to the faith question........

I think the Bible , as a document for faith, is over-rated.

Every Sunday I watch our highly educated progressive minister give a more "acceptable" interpretation of a particularly nasty literal Bible reading.

Like all academics she loves quoting "the relevance of context" - and then proceeds to give a modern interpretation.

This has led me to believe that the real reason for the Bible is to show, throughout the ages, that man has an instinct that "there is more than there is and can be known" - and the Bible is merely man's attempt  (in story form - because that's what we humans do) to try and grapple with this concept.

To be fair to Chansen and his athiest friends, the grappling hasn't been that successful.

It seems to me that we shouldn't cling quite so much to the Bible and concentrate more on Jesus's message about bringing about here on earth the Kingdom of God based on love, compassion and justice.

That's why I call myself a Christian - a follower of Jesus.  (Personally I don't think he was literally the son of God, or was resurrected. He was just a very clever compassionate dude who was killed for political reasons.)

It's the best way for everyone to live.

Kingdom is community based on love and compassion, and Chansen don't you find it ironic that you and Carter have united this Wondercafe community in love and compassion - and that you, an athiest, have asked a Christian minister to preside at Carter's funeral? And that Steven respected your request to not do the "God thing"?

Geez, I dunno how you Canucks see it, but this Aussie feels a warm glow about what I'm seeing here.......

First person to sing "Kumbaya" gets a beating.

Pilgrims Progress - the Gaspe shrew and the Haida Gwai slug are both found only in Canada. They can be pretty terrifying.

In fairness, that's not a result of being "progressive." It's simply called doing good exegesis.

Ahhh. Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya ...

Oh . . . you gonna be in big trouble, Rev. Steven Davis!!!!

Hey chansen - thoughts continue to be with you and your family - especially little Claire as I think about how children process life experiences. 

Someone"s posting lord

Life is an amazing thing. We can mourn and then we can laugh.

Hi Rev. Steven Davis,

I think you fail to grasp that COSEWIC lists engangered species not dangerous ones.

Agreed.

You would.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I appreciate you keeping the video posted through the weekend.  I have carved out some time on Saturday to see it.  Thank you.

Ah, nothing changes........

The contained Canucks are trying to keep the "in your face" Aussie to colour just between the lines -some hope!

I'm also one not to miss out on an opportunity.

With the demise of Wondercafe in it's current form, I'm going to use these emoticons whilst I can.

For Craig and Steven-

Hmmmm Hmmmmm Hummm Humm Humm... Stifle it George...!

There are things that matter and things that are merely interesting. I love strenuous dialogue with persons seeing and thinking things differently than I do. I work to keep that dialogue friendly, without characterizing the other as less worthy because of the difference.

Recent days have served well to show how difference may be negotiated with integrity and respect. All around the struggle of a child, a child's family, a child's friends and neighbours.

I appreciated the video. It gave me a change to move beyond the poverty of printed words. The images were eloquent. Claire sitting alone in the front row, while mum and dad opened and exposed their hearts. She will sometimes be acutely aware of her missing brother, while she watches mum and dad come to terms with their loss. At times she may wonder if Carter, in his absence matters more than she in her presence. One of the things to watch for.

The room saddened me. It carried so many overtones of religious sensibility. The pews in rows, the lectern and the three branched candlestick. I struggled with Steven's apologetic "God bless you." Craig was gracious in his "freebie" response. Some in the room will no doubt have valued the benediction, in light of their own experience of life and faith.

The thumping lectern ought not to have been. The funeral director should notice and make changes to the location or insulation of the microphone. A simple matter to remedy.

I appreciate this almost place and the persons who occupy it. The passing of Carter seems a fit moment to celebrate our growing sense of common ground and common purpose. We are human beings who want so much to make a world where children will be happy and healthy. A world where difference is celebrated and the press for conformity refused.

Where there is no down there is no up. Where there is no absence there is no presence. Where there is no you there is no me.

What can I say to support and encourage Carter's grieving family? Let me borrow this and send it their way with my love...

In my own name,

George

Hi Chansen,

This is Blackbelt, I learned about your son from Rev Steven  2days before the service, I have not been on WC for 2 ysr and didn’t know. Where you had the service was only 2 blocks away from where I live and I had it on my heart and wanted to come to pay my respects, and give my condolences . I told my wife everything and she also commented that I should go. So I planned on attending, but the night before I had to call 911 for my wife, she’s not well at all, and have been in turmoil since and was not able to attend the service for your son.

Anyhow , I opened a new account here to say how sorry I am for your son, especially his young age, and I hope that you and your wife strengthen through this. Sorry I’m not so good with words when it come to things like this but know that my heart is with your family.

Frank

Actually blackbelt, iirc, you've only been gone since last spring.

I appreciate your condolances, but your wife was wrong. The funeral of a child is not where you patch things up with someone you once threatened. That would have been off-the-charts inappropriate. I don't hate you, and I hope you're well and that your wife recovers quickly, but if you had come last week, you would have been escorted from the building.

Again, thank you for your words, and realize that there are no words available at a time like this that would make anything better. But seriously, don't attend funerals when your last interaction with the family was you telling one of them how terrible they are.

 Losing a child just hurts.

Continued prayers for your ongoing healing.

Frank,

sorry to hear aboot your wife.  Man, I wish life had a pause or rewind function.  Keep on loving each other