Welcome back. Makes sense to me. I am on rather sporadically lately. But I'll see ya when I see ya.

Welcome back - good to see ya again Elanorgold!

Elanorgold, I've missed you.

I've been talking with my guy recently about the nature of on-line community. It can feel so close, and then have these wyrd inexplicable disconnects. I think you need to balance it with exterior communities, then it works better, maybe.

Welcome back, elanorgold! Missed you (and your videos, too).

Welcome  back Elanorgold.  

I have to say that I agree with BetteTheRed.  A balance is important.  WC can take up a shocking amount of time if you read everything and participate in conversations as well.  It can almost be a full time job! If you spend all of your time here,  when is there time to work, enjoy your family, enjoy your RL friends, participate in sports/exercise?  

And while it is nice to form connections here,  there is much to be said for being able to reach out and touch someone.  There is also a huge difference between being alone and being lonely.

I guess a lot depends on what online communication means primarily to you as an individual.

There are those that like to use it to inform, educate and learn - taking part in an "invisible" seminar, as it were.

Here it is the ideas and thoughts that matter, not so much the people.

Perhaps these folk are content to read in their homes - without any further curiosity about the posters?

For me, online communication is just another avenue to pursue  my curiosity in, not only the ideas, but the folks who hold those ideas.

In fact, and it might well be a generational thing,  I feel a degree of unease about communicating with folks I can't "see"....

(Which probably explains why, after being on Wondercafe for some time, I wanted to meet some posters in "real" life.)

Now, here's an interesting thing I've discovered...... I tend to respond more to posters that I've met in "real" life -and formed an affinity with.

(Not always, there are some here that I haven't met in "real" life - but would like to meet - to see if the imagined affinity is a reality......

But, as others have stated, balance is the key. Nothing can, or should, replace "real" life.

That said, it's very rewarding when online friends become friends in real life.

It can happen - but you have to have contact with  them in real life for that to occur........

Thanks folks : )  good thoughts here.

Greetings Elanorgold . . . nice to "see" you once again . . . and cool avatar!

I hope that whatever time and input you choose to have on Wondercafe is a blessing and a help to you!  It can be as little or as much as we make it or need it to be (just like any type of community or family).

Hope, peace, joy, love . . .

Good to see you back. I agree with you. We are in a way virtually alone, but min reality we are not alone when we open ourselves to others.

Alone to me is when my spirit either cannot or refuses to connect with other spirits.

I have been utterly alone in a crowd and I have been surrounded when physically alone.

The combination of spiritual connection and physical presence is a wonderful thing.

And physical presence devoid of the spiritual connection is rather disquieting....

Anyone else feel like this???

Rita

Hi Elanorgold: welcome back!

I think every one of us is a unique being. Everyone experiences the universe uniquely, or the universe experiences itself uniquely in and through every one of us. Everyone thinks uniquely, and lives in their uniquely own conceptual reality.

Individual uniqueness tends to make us alone and lonely: there is no-one else quite like us; we are totally alone in the world! The antidote to the loneliness of uniqueness is finding the oneness and sameness that underlies all uniqueness.

In just being—in non-thinking being—we experience the oneness that is at the root of being. In this state, we not only experience universal oneness, we also experience the cohesive power of the universe that keeps the seemingly separate and disparate parts together as one unified whole. We humans, as highly emotionally evolved cosmic beings, experience this cohesive power as unitive love, and feel compelled to enact this love outwardly.

Moreover, in pure being, we experience the creative power of the universe, the power that created us in its image, as uniquely creative beings. We then realize that our function in the grand scheme of things is not only to express unified love outwardly, but also to express our unique cosmic experience outwardly, and share it with our fellow beings.

When we express both, the love of oneness and the experience of uniqueness, then the loneliness of uniqueness is overcome, and we joyously live up to our potential as co-creators and co-evolutionaries of the universe.

We are as gods and must get good at it.

-Stewart Brand

Welcome back Elanorgold...and yes to your query, Rita.

I agree with much that you have written, Arminius.  My simplistic take on the subject is that we must have our own self-respect and love and feel it within before we can feel it without.  Living from the outside in is back asswards, to me.    It is a spiritual thing for me...God within, but I know atheists that have the same take...just different words.

Internet interaction is the background noise of life.

Absolutely Rita!

Yes, most often when travelling on a city bus or standing in line at the grocery store.  Sometimes, even at coffee time after church.  To feel invisible. 

Ah Rita, more than wonderful - it's the best experience there is........

What I'm going to say next, may seem strange to most folk. 

I don't enjoy Christmas. So many of my depressive episodes occur in January that my doctor (and family) have commented on it.

Sure, there's part of me that enjoys the extended family getting together - particularly the "new" generation of babies, the food, the wine, the gift-giving........

There is this unspoken belief operating that we're all "supposed" to be at our happiest - and often it seems to me that it is a thin veneer  - forcing the difficult emotions of the day "below stairs".

It is the one day of the year when I am grieving. As I look around the decorated table and see all the faces I'm acutely aware of all the missing chairs.....

As one ages  there are so many missing faces, and their presence is missed on this day more than any other.

You know, I used to think it was just the thrill of the gifts that made childhood Christmases so wonderful.

I'm becoming aware that it was more than that - it was all my loved ones were here at the table.......

ironically, I think it's right that this determination to celebrate Christmas is a positive thing.

It was the birth of a great man, and the fact that loved ones are so keenly missed, says so eloquently that Jesus was right to say that love is the most important emotion there is.

So, I'll continue to do what I always do. I'll enjoy what I can on the day, then go home to my private sorrow.

But, I don't define grieving as beiing lonely. In grief the connection with others is strong.

In loneliness it is the emotional disconnection from those around you that is so painful.

It is being devoid of love - and there is nothing so painful on this planet than living without love.

And that, more than any reason, is why we humans need God. We all need to experience love in our lives but the reality is that this doesn't always occur  for everyone.

Thank God for God!

Many thoughts here, and nice to "see" you all again too!

The oneness feeling, I find that hard to come to when I'm feeling physically isolated, and even the people who love me feel far away. Many of them physically are. So like you say Arminius, I'm doing the irony thing by sharing. Day before yesterday though, I felt the oneness out the back of our land, and I was glad, and the loneliness had evaporated. I had started my thread the evening before, and also had a brief visitor coming over in real life that day. I haven't yet found something like Wondercafe in real life, a place to connect, but I hope to.

I thought the god concept would come up, and I wondered what might be said about it. I can't do it quite that way, it would not be sincere for me. In a way though, I feel less isolated when I even read about someone else's experiences, here, in a book, or in an audiobook. That may be similar I think, someone that both is and isn't really there. Even some friendly chat in the shops counts as connection and can set me up for a few days. I'm not lonely because I'm atheistic, it is not a failing of atheism. It is a simple human social issue.

For city bus lineups etc, I didn't feel alone in those types of situations, because even though people don't usually talk to each other, or even look at each other, I knew that if something were to happen, the people would draw together. And I saw this happen many times where the silence and politeness of minding our own business burst into fits of giggles and several people stepping way out of the expected norm by talking and making jokes. I've also seen strangers step in to assist others, which has also happened to me. We were only pretending to be alone, and that brought me comfort.

"I haven't yet found something like Wondercafe in real life, a place to connect, but I hope to.'

Wouldn't that be nice. Social sites are the "safe sex" of human interaction but not the same as the real thing. The older we get, the more we move away from that feeling we had of comradery that we had as kids. Remember how we used to function as groups with our hangouts and innocence until the eventual pairing off or separate paths? Do people put too much onus on personal relationship over group (never mind the continuation of the species aspect). Do we lose something along the way by saying mine instead of ours, and end up seeking that which we lost?

Wouldn't it be nice to enjoy that comradery we enjoyed as kids only as adults, especially after the child rearing years are past. Why can't we return to the ideal social situation of youth. Is sex more important than good friendships, like the good friendships of youth where discrepancies did not lead to divorce? Have we become too hardened and cynical and set in individual ways? Have we grown or actually regressed as we got older? Wouldn't it be nice to hang out again, view the world with wonder, and don't forget the mischief?  Seniors especially need to get back to this, rather than the option of the beaten path of planned events or cruises to give us the impression what we have acquired actually means something, submission, bitterness, and loneliness, each with such wonderful stories to tell and no one to listen. Built any forts lately? It is no accident that as the mind fails the memories that remain are that of childhood, a time when we had it right. Time to act like kids again and re-learn how to relate. Too bad there are so few who will.

"The oneness feeling, I find that hard to come to when I'm feeling physically isolated, and even the people who love me feel far away."

"I thought the god concept would come up"

Actually the two go together. Consider poor God, the sole being. Talk about isolation. Solution, create life as we know it each with it's own experience to be enjoyed. No more isolation and loneliness as all are God and God is in all experiencing everything. The thing is life does not know what it is, yet at the same time often feels a connection to everything else but for some odd reason periods of isolation where who we really are nags at us. But even this is necessary to further understand what we are and how we all need to be connected, every man, woman, tree, rock, animal, so that we can feel alive and realize we are not the center of our own little universes but a miniscule but essential part of it all! Oneness, even in isolation. (Just watch out for the ones who are not content to be a part of God but think they are God, playing with and manipualting the lives of others for personal gain, missing the entire point that the universe is not as said previously mine, but ours)

Hi Elanor, welcome back. There are some great thoughts in here. I have to think a bit and maybe will be able to add to them.

talking aboot isolation...

look at this liberating book and see how there are powers that are trying their darndest to rip the book to shreds...

darned model theists and their isolationist practices and power structures!

Many people try to mask the aloneness of uniqueness with imitativeness, uniformity, and conformity, thereby foregoing their unique creativity.

I think the cosmos transformed itself from oneness and sameness to diversity and uniqueness without abandoning its original oneness and sameness. Every one of us is a unique creator in the image of the ultimate creator, yet everyone is also united with everyone and everything else into one inseparable whole.

If we all were to acknowledge that, then we would be interested in each others unique thoughts and creations, and joyfully share with each other our respective uniquenesses while being secure in the knowledge that we are united with everyone and everything into one inseparable whole. Then we, like the cosmos of which we are an inseparable part, would be sameness and uniqueness in one, and would freely share our unique thoughts and creations with each other without fearing rejection, ridicule or loneliness. We would be interested in other people's uniquenesses, in what makes them tick, rather than trying to force them to conform to our thinking. This, to me, is the creative human society of the future.

not4prophet, thank you, wonderful post. I sometimes wonder if our universe is one god, there may well be other universes, and ours isn't alone... There's a "hmmm..." !

Inanna, lol!! : D

Thanks Northwind.

Arminius, I think we have much of that already. I'm interested in other's thoughts and creations, and I feel connected when I view an art show, or watch an artistic music video. Art is often a release for me, and a very important one, to get it out there. I do withhold some creations though, and often my name, out of wisdom or privacy, though I know many successful artists bare all. But they pay a price for that, and can end up in emotional ruin. But generally yes, sharing is so good for us, and we do a lot of that here on the forum. Hail art!

I am moved to present Comfortably Numb, by Pink Floyd. "Is there anybody out there?"

Which is about a rock star taking drugs to get through the pressures of performance, but can also be read in a broader sence, about existence, isolation and self reflection in concious awareness. I love Pink Floyd.

Hello,
Is there anybody in there?
Just nod if you can hear me
Is there anyone home?

Come on
Now
I hear you're feeling down
I can ease your pain
Get you on your feet again

Relax
I'll need some information first
Just the basic facts
Can you show me where it hurts?

There is no pain you are receding
A distant ship's smoke on the horizon
You are only coming through in waves
Your lips move
But I can't hear what you're saying

When I was a child I had a fever
My hands felt just like
Two balloons
Now I've got that feeling once again
I can't explain
You would not understand
This is not how I am
I... Have become comfortably numb

O.K.
Just a little pin prick
There'll be no more aaaaaaaah!
But you may feel a little sick

Can you stand up?
I do believe it's working
Good
That'll keep you going through the show
Come on
It's time to go

There is no pain you are receding
A distant ship's smoke on the horizon
You are only coming through in waves
Your lips move
But I can't hear what you're saying

When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye

I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown
The dream is gone
I... Have become comfortably numb
 

Hanging on  in quiet desperation is the English way...

-Pink Floyd

(I don't think there is anybody out there. What we hear is just the universe laughing at itself.)