An example of that was when I suggested hte poster was pasting blocks of scripture

The example here of going to solution is the presumptions around why the blocks of scripture are an issue.

There is a presumption it is around scripture being rejected by those at WC....that the theology presented here is in opposition to scripture and/or that it takes away from the fun.  ...and finally, that people are trying to 'force their will" into scripture.

The bonus of this last post is that we get some understanding of StephenBooth's preconceptions of people's motives. 

If on the other hand, the post response was "tell me more why you prefer conversation over links" or "let me explain why i wish to post scripture"....the conversation might have had a hope.

the conversation would have hope if you understood i was accepting your apology and relaying how i feel, in relation to some, during some times.

that response was not the response to that post you displayed, your missing the post after of yours which is the one i was clearly responding to.

i think clearing  up these mistakes of yours will help you understand more.

im tired of explaining the same things over and over, you want what i say to mean what you want what i say to mean it seems.

--------------

this is the actual post of yours that was clearly what that post was in response to.

--------

[end of post]

========================

why can you just let me have my freedom?

=======================

how about this:

im not interested.

ok, i fixed it....to show the thread of the conversation...hope that helps us to seek first to understand

heres what i wrote i cant get it to fully display for some reason.

---------------

no problem pinga, im aware of the 'scripture issues' at wc and i have some ideas of what is at the core issue, it seems to me that scriputre has been portrayed negatively here and it has been come sort of a rejected thing with some??, i think as well, part  of the issue is it also quickly and with ease takes away from some notions of theology that is in opposition to scriptures??, so, with some, it takes away from 'fun' maybe??, i think with some scripture interferes in what they would like Christianity to be, but isnt, as some try to force their will into it???

  so in some ways, i inherited the issue and much grievance i think?

----------------------------

understand this, if you go back to your original  post to me, you asked me not to post scripture or to link it whatever, i told you no, i think you carried on after that.

why dont you display them all?

 anyway, compromises have been made,

what more do you want from me?

pinga, okay, dont shy away, this is it now, ask me whatever you want.

directly,

point form please.

I do not find it particularly helpful when individuals cut and paste pages and pages of scripture in order to try to make a statement or prove a point.   In fact I do not find it helpful at all. I frequently have trouble understanding what the point is, as it is rarely followed by any personal commentary or opinion. I certainly have nothing against scripture, as was suggested above in reference to the WC crowd.  I seek to understand it.   I cannot speak for others but that is part of the reason I am here. If I want only to read scripture I can open the pages of my own bible.  If I seek interpretations of it I come to places such as this.

I find it disappointing when a posted topic, for which there has the potential to be meaningful discussion, is hijacked with all of this cut and paste, and name calling.  Dialogue occurs when people enter into meaningful conversation with each other in a manner that is polite and respectful. 

so skip posts. dont engage in conversations that you dont want.

name calling is something i havent done, can anyone claim i called them a 'name'

want to see the list of names ive been called at wc?

i think the insulting of people has been here at wc long before i came along, and the swearing etc etc, and during when  i was banned, and i after i came back.

so what do you propose , people cant post scripture, or only the amount the is accpetable by your stick of measure?

stephen? would it help you if I pulled more of the exchange into the upper post? If so, I am happy to do so, please just let me know where you would like me to start to pull.

I would like to first understand how it feels to you when you are asked not to post blocks of scripture,  or if you would like, we can discuss some other aspect so that we can strive to understand each other.

what i wouold like is you to ask your questions in direct point form way all at once and be done with it

unless you only have that one question.

which i will answer. bored.

Thanks Baylacey, that is also how I feel when I see blocks of text in a thread.

Stephen, what benefit do you feel that you are giving when you throw blocks of text into a thread?  I sense sometimes you put commentary in, but also sometimes don't.  

How do you feel when you put those blocks in?  What do you feel will be the result of people seeing them? 

(ps, i think above you referred to baylacey as mendella?)

point form please , all at once, im not going into a drawn out arguement in this.

ill show you a example of ignoring posts and conversation soon,.

I find myself in whole hearted agreement with Baylacey..  I do tend to skip certain posts that consist of nothing more yhan long strings of scripture, with little or no commentary by the person posying.  I see WC as a place for the meeeting of minds, not for lengthy quotes of a book that most of us are already familiar with, and/or could easily access on our own if the need or desire to do so arises. 

To paraphrase several other posts in several other threads by several other posters, any mindless fool can cut and paste.  It takes a mind, however, to explore and explain, to listen and learn, to grow and develop. 

That's really the point, as I see it, of discussion and dialogue.  I've likely learned more in these threads from some people I don't agree with, rather than from those I do.  Thise are the very ones who get me thinking....

I am not suggesting that it is inappropriate to post scripture, but pages and pages of it are, imo, not necessary to prove whatever the point is that you are trying to make.  I will learn more from you if you speak to me in your own words. 

And if your posts are so long and tedious that I and many others are skipping them, then are you not losing a large part of your audience?  If the people you are trying to speak to are not listening,  are you wasting your breath?  

Stephen. 

Conversations are not held in pointform.

Conversations, dialogue, are done in exchanges.

On the other hand, are you trying to tell me that you struggle with reading blocks of text?  If so, I am happy to make everything presented in a simple fashion for you to read.

Let's try this

Stephen Booth

1.  What is your purpose behind inserting blocks of text?

Side questions

2.  Do you prefer one bible translationover another?   

3.  If so, what is your preffered bible transtion?  

4.  Why do you prefer this one?

I agree with Baylacey too - in fact I skip certain threads altogether if I think there is a good chance that there is going to be a lot of cut/paste scripture in them without an explanation to go with it.

I think Stephen listens but doesnt hear. He has been told this over and over and then I think he chased people around the net doing the same thing on FaceBook.

So beware , be very aware.

Crazyheart - I've been watching and have noticed no difference from when he was on this site last year. I had hoped for some growth in maturity in that year, but if it's occured, I haven't noticed it sadly.

Why was he accepted back, somegal?

seek first to understand......so, i'd like to listen to why Stephen feels it is important to do this one, rather than outcomes, if people don't mind....

Go for it Pinga, I have said all I wanted and wont be back.

actually i made some posts on the facebook wall, people responded a discussion took place, i dont know how that translates into 'chasing'.

im sure in your mind you can force it to be so.

i listen but dont hear , right?,.....fluff?

*yawn*

later.

since ive been back, ive expressed love and concern for you.

later crazyheart.

let me know when you see "pages and pages" of scripture in a post.

can you show any examples.

you guys make this too easy?

yes, i understand its not for everyone, thats okay, lets not deny what is enjoyed by some, even if here, it is the few.

i enjoy readin scriptures people post , i consider others do too.

for me, its not a mass volume numbers game.

anyway, i admit it, i love the scriptures, i find them beautiful and i love to share in them, its what i prefer, its how i prefer to share in the teachings of them, how can i express it better than the teaching itslef? let people read them for themselves and understand for themselves, and if they want to skip them, they can do that too.

take me to jail.

---------------------

Parroting something is not the same as understanding it, or explaining it.  It isn't that scripture isn't beautiful, but as I said you can somply provide a reference (e.g. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8a) and most of us will get the point.  True, many may not take the time to look up such references, but then it seems many don't take the timeto read through it here, either. 

That would also free up some column space to you to describe, in your own words, why the passage in question has to do with discussion at hand.  You shouldn't be taking yourself out of the equation, you should put more of you in.  The way it stands now, I get the idea that you're hiding behind  the works and words of others, because you have none of your own to offer.

Folks, I remind you about the old statement about beating one's head against a brick wall--it only gives you a headache, and only feels better when you stop.

Pinga, I am not sure that we can separate seeking to understand from seeking to be understood.  In a true exchange/dialogue I think both are happening together.

When I meet with couples for pre-marriage work, the first time we met we talk about communication.  We talk about being Assertive, stating clearly what you feel/want/need and also about Active Listening, making sure you know what the other person is saying before you respond.  WHen one or the other is missing communication breaks down quickly (maybe not always but often)

Gord, interesting

i agree...seeiking to understand and be understood are occurring at the same time.

It is the solution, the answer, the decision about what the other person's motivations are....or actions mean...which is a challenge if stepped into too early in that exchange.

I would like to try & understand more about where stephenbooth is coming from, specifically regarding his lengthy text quotes...

i think i understand a bit better now, maybe he wil provide frther information later...

(but, it is late here, and i should be going to sleep soon)

LOL - I was thinking the same thing GordW. I am also having a sense of deja-vu as I remember previous conversations about this in the past.

I think I'll get an ice pack for my weary head.

or just skip posts all together, i was asked questions, i answered and yet i still get treated in this manner.

i do express my point of view of the ascriputre often not always, and yet, that is not known,

i ask questions regarding scripture i post , yet , they are often ignored.

and as it seems, im often targeted for not discussing when in reality it just seems to me that the answers to questoins i have will often not be found here. its that simple.

so you can portray this a beating a head aginst a wall.

it is not so.

i can ask you questions gord, and try to discuss.

maybe the issue is also people want to control the conversation,, in the direction they want, being discussed how they want, with result they want?

rebaron, if you think i have no understanding ask me as many questions you like in regards to scripture i post . (point form please,btw, im guessing you wont, so why do you say that?)

that goes for everyone, go for it. , if i dont recieve any questions i will take it as reality as a non-issue and more fluff from wc.

gord,

gimme some love.

----------------------

is there a verse about others trying to prevent others who would welcome you from doing so.

is that in Peter?

anyone?

i cant find it, i thought i had read someting like that before.

there is another i cant find.

it relates to confessing sins, and if we cant do it with in front of each other, how can we do so in front of God (something like that)

i may be mistaken.

if any is aware of these can you share them with me please.

-----------

i have asled so many questions that have gone unanswered,

what did you guys expect, me to 'ooooh' and 'aaaaah'? over what? show me.

do i need to hear of doubtful rationalizations?

ooooh aaaah? why?

some make a big deal out of posting a little scripture.

bizarre

is that really all youve seen?

why is it not a issue at other forums? (besides gretta vospers)

maybepart of  the issue is also , people dont read the posts and assume they are all only scriptural pastes, or knoweingly portary them as, as they know they are not.

they are not.

it simply is not so.

i do commment regarding the scriptures too, not always.

how wide is that wc brush?

Two things that come to mind. First, I think people are ganging up on Stephen a bit  too much. I wasn't around here last year before he was banned, so my only experience is in the last couple of months. I guess I'm not carrying any memories/  left over feelings.

 He did express that he likes to post scripture, and hopes people will read it in it's entirety.  It's true that everyone here has their style and that makes us all unique.He has expressed to me that he gets the sense that I am not well read in scipture, and  that's not far from true because I haven't been reading it in depth for years-- therefore,  he posts the parts which he thinks might be helpful.

I think the problem is that because I don't read the scripture through the same lens that Stephen does at times, he assumes I don't get it...when it is more likely, I find, that we just approach it differently.. Stephen has attempted to engage me in dialogue to determine where I am coming from and how I understand things. Again, we still may not agree, and sometimes we might, but some dialogue has taken place at any rate.

Secondly, I too find it a bit annoying to scroll through lines and lines of scripture looking for personal points/ questions made by the poster(s) who do that, and therefore sometimes tune out. It would be easier to read if it was broken into smaller  sections/ questions/ ideas. I also enjoy far more to have a repsectful  personal discussion about how someone comes to the conclusion they do about a particular chapter/ verse of scripture.

a majority  are a few verses, not too long, what do you think?

difficul to scroll through lines and lines of scripture?

give me a break.

there are many posts which equal in length.

i scroll past many just fine, in fact i read few, depends on who is posting.

maybe you need a new mouse or check your scroll settings.

i scrolled past the longest post in this thread with three quick flicks of a finger.

im guessing my shorter posts will take a half a flick or one flick, and my longer ones takes two flicks....on average.

what do you think?

i really dont think the issue is 'scrolling past line of scripture' as a difficulty.

i scroll past many posts, if i complain about them, is it then automatyically a  issue that is realistic?

.

Hey Stephen, I was defending you and your right to post how you like..actually as long as noone is name calling...I don't mind what people post and I will skip posts I don't feel like reading/ don't have focus to really cntemplate at that particular moment...so it's okay.  I was also expressing how I feel and why, that's all.

i know, thank you.

you are kind.

sorry .

im probably a bit defensive tonight, overall  it has been hours and hours  that i have been having to deal with this nonsense. can i have that time of my life back? no? flush swirl.

besides, i dont think much needs explanation but rather reading and contemplation.

what else can i say, 'im the most wanted man on my island'....(<-- 'stephen' from braveheart.,,,yeah, im getting tired)

 hug.

Sometimes, I find  (I too have trouble peeling myself away from some discussionswhen I get really into them or they are about  something really important to me), it's good to take a little break and come back refreshed..

i think most days a make a few posts and thats it, im not often back on until next day.

thanks for your words.

later.

This is my understanding of the communication that's happening here......

Stephen just wants to post scripture. To his way of thinking, no interpretation is necessary - the Bible verses themselves speak for themselves.

He's content to just cut and paste scripture - interpretation and discussion are not what he's about.........(he is a little disingenuous here - he often asks for discussion in his thread heading - and then reverts to good 'ole Bible passages.....

Others come to Wondercafe for dialogue, interpretation, discussion  - reading copious Bible passages alone -are not what they're about........

Guess what, we have a problem Huston!

Discussion and dialogue, IMO, are doomed to fail in this particular instance.

Why? Because both parties don't want it, that's why.

I'm one of those who don't read long Bible quotes.

I just skip over them -and leave them to others,(from observation - others that are also Bible centred in their faith.)

To watch Stephen and unsafe in action - exchanging Biblical quotes - is like watching Biblical table-tennis.......

But, if I'm honest, I certainly don't read every poster. I tend to choose those that have a communication style and values that are similar to mine.

Birds of a feather flock together........

So, if this what I do, who am I to request that other feathered birds can't fly in the same sky unless they conform?

I do have a question for you, Stephen - that can't be cut and pasted from the Bible.

Who is that gorgeous young man with the stick thingie in your avatar? Is it you?

If so, I can give you many reasons, besides reading the Bible, to enjoy your life.

true.

take a mosey over to the "what do people mean when they say 'Jesus is God' thread, I personally enjoy looking at the scriptures of Christianity when discussing issues of Christianity that relate directly to the scriptures of Christianity.

i dont know what 'disingenous' means, seems negative, i throw a red flag.

maybe im looking for more interesting discussion and the level of discussion here makes me feel ive already been through it?

maybe i want to move beyond elementary teachings?

speak for yourself , i see other here sharing in a manner i do, i think 'conservatives' are a little less vocal and ,well, conservative.

two parties wanting it?

hey , ya, draw the circle wide, many colours in a rainbow and all that.

true, lets give ourselves a little room. (thanks to my friend rhbilly)

its 'Stephen' from the movie braveheart.

hes in a few movies.

his name is david o'hara

ps the stick thingy is a arrow in a shield, its suppose to be symbolic a little, you may not get it.

--------

me grandpappy was born in ireland and me ma in Scotland, im quite 'Celtic' looking,  and kinda handsome too! im not chop liver!

i actually dont read the Bible very much at all. i should read it more. then again, there is still so much to explore in what i have read.

...[edit] reread your comment.

i get it. missed it at first.

-------------------------------------------------------

this thread officially proves i engage in discussion, as others do show that too.

for those who keep repeating these things and seem to be 'slotting' me in that manner, please bookmark this page for future reference.

i guess i have freedom of deciding how to engage in discussion , with whom and when.

imagine that.

sometimes too, i dont have time to respond to every post or continue in every thread.

-------------------------

Stephen, after attempting to read your response to me, I'm getting a glimmer as to why you stick to the pages of the Bible.

You seem to have a lot of difficulty reading and comprehending anything other than the Bible...........

Now even I don't know what I was trying to say -and I wrote it.

That's okay, we can all learn something new.

(Like I just have - I just checked in a dictionary and I see I left the"u" out of disingenuous.)

I'm delighted you have a Celtic appearance - my Dad was Scottish and Dr. Freud would not be at all surprised that I find the type attractive.

I think we'll get along just fine if I just stick to looking at your avatar.

maybe the difficulties in comprehending are not with me.

maybe.

seriously, would you suggest i speak/elaborate  on the less 'plain' scriptures? will  it be understood?, or i may be speaking in a manner in which i will then be targeted for talking down as though people are slow?

ive asked many questions, i get few answers.

i dont know what more to tell ya.

i come from the 'Roberts' clan, you? (or is it robertson they go back too?)

my origial name is iain reid.

quite scottish.

the thread was titled, first seek to understand...as that is my goal.

Rushing to get my day on.  will chat later.

Pinga - recently I have tried to engage in respectful dialogue with Stephen (and with a few others) and I find that I get nowhere.  I recently replied within 15 minutes to a post of his in which he quoted me  and he claimed that he didn't know what post I was referring to.   (True, I did not copy the long quote because it contained several quotes within quotes that I find gets confusing.)

I've decide, like many others, to ignor posts that go on and on, quoting scripture, or quoting quotes within quotes (kind of like a 'he said, she said, he said' argument).  If they are in a thread that otherwise has a good discussion going I will skip over them and try to stick to the topic.  Otherwise I will just move on.  I am taking a break from trying to dialogue with people who either can't or won't dialogue.

I wish you luck in your attempts to understand.  

I, personally, think Stephen has been very easy to understand.

He posts scripture about any topic. (It is easy to do with Biblegateway or other resources)
 

He posts a little or a lot, depending on what he finds.

He posts it because it is biblical and that is what matters to him. (he may be one of those people who look up what the Bible says before he says something, some look up what their denomination says).

He posts it because he sees theology and things he does not agree with. He has very limited knowledge of the diversity in theology, little knowledge of Church history or the evolution of doctrine, though he wants to discuss such. He does so with the Bible.

Example -atonement is not a collection of theories, all the theories are the same thing and it is in the Bible.

Example- original sin is not doctrine with history, it is simply in the Bible.

He has no interest in conversation. His interest is in conversion. Read it, it is in the Bible. Further proof is that when folks nicely ask he about links or breaks his response is "skip reading it". I remember hitting enter once and my whole conversation being one paragraph, when told I cooperated because I wanted conversation. I could have said "skip my posts" but it would have been because I did not want conversation or I was too immature or sensitive to handle the pointer.

He occasionally posts a question, but it is "see how the Bible is right and you are wrong?" or "now what do you have to say for yourself?" The Bible is his "touche"

He sees people and denominations and the church straying from scripture.

He cannot comment too much as he does not have a base to do so, he has the Bible.

I do not really get why people get upset about the Scripture, he is not going to stop. He is not going to link, because he is witnessing here.

That is what some folks do.

I usually just do not answer the door...

You can also spam with Bible verses, anyone remember Door(some numbers followed?)

or i post passages and scripture which comes to mind throghout conversations.

this seems like a over critical and hostile enviroment.

no wonder i dont comment much in my own words around here.

that is another reasoning for it, i dotn want what i share ripped apart and criticized simply because im the 'target of the month' .

better to post scripture.

i imagine if i expressed in my own words what is expressed in scripture i have posted i probably would have been told i was judging, condeming, not loving, intolerant, bigot ,hater, and banned (again).

maybe

yeah, ill be posting scripture mostly.

thanx

pinga, understand dat

I think we all (including StephenBoothoot) can post whatever and however we want as long as it doesn't fall into the various categories of "unpostables" (racism, hatred, offensive language, etc.)

How we post, what we post, and the quality of our posts, will depend on whether there is interaction and therefore the art of communication happening.  If one posts copied scripture verses, or other types of literature, there might not be any response . . . if so, and if it happens consistently . . . and one wants interaction, then from past experience, they have to decide if that is how they choose to post.  If so, then they shouldn't expect different results.

As others have commented there are posts I just skip over . . . and not necessarily just long posts of scripture verse, but just because I am not interested does not mean that others can't post what they choose.

StephenBooth, is there anything false about what I said?

Understanding who people are and what they believe is why I am NOT hostile about chapter and verse copying and pasting. I do not read it, as it is not what I am here for, but I do not get on you about it.

I ONCE when you were here before and ONCE since you have returned asked you if you might link to it or just cite it.  You told me you did not want to. So, no is no.

I simply am not online to read the Bible. One sits beside the bed and another in the living room (along with various versions and various commentaries in the bookcase). I read the Scriptures all the time and I prefer my reading of scripture to be in context and not with an agenda or to prove something to others or myself.

I love the Bible and I also understand diverse opinions and theologies developed from those books.

One can pick a topic whether it is female ordination or divorce and get different positions from different deniominations all relying on Scripture to support it.

I, personally, have had it used as a weapon against me and could demonize the people who did it, or I could see why it was happening and understand that a chapter and verse person is going to be who they are, just as I am who I am.

ahhhh ... the Stephenbooth saga

From what I have seen..... Stephenbooth is here to teach, preach, correct, witness (in his way), and possibly be martyred.   His credentials are rather sparse in that regard.   I say that because I asked him previously and I base my assessment on his answer.

This is a discussion forum but rarely is there any sign of discussion from Stephenbooth.

I will say this .... there are ,any posts on here in many topic threads that I do not agree with what was said.    BUT ... I am not here to correct or teach..... I am here to listen and dialogue.   I am here to gain an appreciation of another person's viewpoint.   I am here to build relationships.    I am here to share my viewpoint and that I try to do as politely and carefully as I can.

It would be a wonderful day should Stephenbooth actually take time to just listen and dialogue.     Maybe then he would learn something precious....

Regards

Rita