Schools do need to actively address the problem of school violence. My father-in-law is a high school teacher in the Greater Toronto Area. Two of his students have died this year as a result of school violence. Neither incident involved guns.

The use of guns gets high profile media attention. The problem runs much deeper than this. At least in Canada, more students are hurt and killed by stabbings, beatings, and even deliberate drowning, than are hurt by guns. The core of the problem is a feeling of disenfranchisement and powerlessness among certain segments of the student population. This, in turn, feeds a culture of violence as a means of redress.

A culture of violence among people, who feel otherwise powerless, almost inevitably ends in acts of terror. Access to firearms and explosives will escalate the upper level of violence; it is not where the problem begins.

Schools can, should, and are taking measures to improve the safety and security of their staff and students. But this is only effective on school property, and only addresses the worst of the symptoms.

Schools cannot provide the whole answer. Faith-based organizations, like the United Church, can play an effective role in addressing the underlying causes by sponsoring local mission efforts to serve the hurts and hopes of the disenfranchised in our communities.

I can't stress enough the parent's role in the behaviour of their kids. Parent's don't scare the bejesus out of their kids anymore, instead the roles are reversing. Most of us over ...say... 30 years old can remember when the belt came out for a spanking and being grounded for weeks taught us to stay in line. And no, I don't think that hitting your kid on the bottom to smarten them up is a bad thing...
Family values are no longer being taught, such as sitting around the table as a family at dinner, or going out for a bike ride as a family. Instead the kids sit in front of the t.v. eating their kraft dinner and watching inappropriate t.v. shows.

I have to concur with MakeYourself on this one. As a parent of two, I can say that I have learned that my children are at their worst behaviour when they are CONSISTENTLY AND REGULARLY pushed aside so we can do other things. By this I mean that we are trying to ensure that they are "occupied" so we can do things other than attending to them.

My kids are at their best when we are CONSISTENTLY AND REGULARLY making a point of spending quality time together: reading stories, going for bikerides or swimming and having "tickle fights" or playing Monopoly.

In my own experience as a parent, I have watched kids who have TVs in their bedrooms and spend their days eating pure sugar or refined foods while playing video games with very little family engagement turn into socially inept little people who do not understand empathy for others.

Should school do enough to protect our kids from guns? When are we going to stop asking our schools to do what we should be doing? Teachers see some of these kids for more hours in a day than their parents do and thus, spend a great deal of time actually parenting in addition to teaching. And parents seem totally comfortable with this. Ask any teacher you know and he/she will tell you horror stories about how parents dump off parenting responsibilities on to teachers. And teachers are increasingly abysmally paid and undervalued.

I, for one, don't want to see a police state in our schools. I want to see us turn away from coveting all the "stuff" which takes us away from our kids and the things that matter and allows us to build the false priorities that enable us to excuse ourselves from our very real parenting responsibilities.

The REAL question is Do WE do enough to protect our kids from guns and do WE do enough to teach our children to live in respect and harmony with each other?

well put phd. My husband use to be a school teacher in a middle school. So I to know the situation first hand.

I know that everyone would like the school we send our children to be a "safe" place and the truth is that they are not as safe as they use to be. It is not just guns killing kids in schools, kids are poisoning each other too.

You are right in that some parents need to be more involved in their child's life but at the same time the schools have to look for signs. When signs arrive they then need to inform and give the parents the tools to deal with issues before they get out of control. To protect that child and other children in the school.

Since when did it become the schools responsibility to "protect" our children from guns? Guns don't hurt people, people hurt people. How about parents get control of their little brats so that the school doesn't have to? Put the responsibility where it belongs, in the home. I'm not trying to anger anyone but parents should be responsible for their children. A school is a place for learning, not for raising your children. If you want your child to have a better education, home school them or put them into a private school. Public schools are a sad waste of tax payers money anyway. Lastly, since when did guns become a bad thing? Guns are just an object like a car or a steak knife. We have a people problem, not a gun problem.

I still agree that it all comes from the home and also that guns are not the issue. Anything can become a weapon if needed or wanted. Maybe we should ban pens and pencils too?

There are parents out there (God help them) that don't know the signs that they are parenting there children wrong (teaching them and showing them bad behavior). The schools were my husband taught he couldn't discipline the parents or tell the parents "Smarten up, what are you doing driving home your kids at 4am drunk. They have school and stop telling them what you are going to do to your ex because they deserve something."

Parents are responsible for there children but God help you if you point out to another parent that they are doing a bad job. If we allowed teachers or principles or who ever to say "hey your lifestyle is really affecting your child. Here is a good family counselor to help you get on the healthy track for your child sake." Do you not think that would help?

My husband would loose his job if he did that. Not that the school board would have fired him directly but the parents would have had him fired. I guess we have to report more "bad" parents to the government like child welfare.

I agree Boots. I recently found out my son was being bullied at school. The boy was tripping him then kicking him when we has on the ground. My mom said to tell him to walk away. How can you walk away from that? My husband said for our son to defend himself. Well really he's a lover not a fighter. Anyway my son said that it was only happening on the way home from school, so I made arrangements for someone to be there every day after school. The next day the bully beat him up when he got back to school after lunch. The school left a message at home, but did not attempt to contact me at home. My husband picked him up after school and called me, but it wasn't until I got home from work and saw his shirt covered in blood that I realized the extent of the situation. The bully got a half day office suspension because they could not get in touch with the parents.

I think that the schools are not taking the little things seriously. The way the vice principle talked lead me to believe that this was the first incident with that bully and that they were never able to get in touch with the parents. So nothing is being done at all. I am pretty frustrated at this point with both the school and the parents. Not taking any kind of interest in how your child is behaving at school seems like a kind of neglect to me that should be investigated by child protective services.

I agree with Boots and Commonsense and particularly love the candor that Commonsense added to this discussion.

We have gone too far down the path of a lack of personal accountability in my view as well. Parenting is an important responsibility. It is an important COMMUNITY responsibility. And though I do agree that it "takes a village to raise a child", the responsibility begins with parents.

If you don't want to parent your child with a view to their contributions to the world as good human beings, then don't have them.

I am tired of hearing people politely step around these issues for fear of offending anyone.

BTW: Somegirl, this story about your son makes my heart ache. But you are his parent and if you are not going to fight on his behalf for an appropriate response for this terrible bullying, then no one will and you may find yourself dealing with it more seriously and tragically in the future. The consequences for your reluctance to press further on the matter today may be something you regret in the future. I don't think you would be unreasonable to ask for a meeting with the other family - mediated by the school somehow.

Good luck. I fear the day that I am in your shoes...

phd_twin_mom, All this has happened since Wednesday. I'll be calling the school tomorrow and let them know just what I think about the whole thing.

Somegirl,

Good for you! Let us know how it works out.

Sending you positive karma. Don't back down.

Guns sure are cool, but man.

Health professionals agree that guns are a negative determinant of health. While humans, particularly young men, have always had natural agressive impulses, the availability of guns can make the effect of that agression deadly in an instant. I wish I could say that part of my Canadian identity involved the fact that Canada did not manufacture guns. Unfortunately, this is far from the truth. Big gun manuufacturers find their home in Canada. My Canada doesn't include Pan-Ordinance.

I am unswayed by those who reason that people kill people, and that guns do not that kill people. Surely the point is that people WITH GUNS kill more people than people without guns.Check out the stats. If I have time, I will find them and post.

Are guns bad...it depends. The joke at my school was that school policy was for studetns to leave their guns on the bus. This obviously isnt true but the point was that guns were not and are not weapons where I come from. They were tools. Gun ownership was immensly high at my school. I woul wager a guess that two thirds of my class owned high powered guns. Were there accidents...yeah...but usually adults and way fewer people died from guns that from drinking and driving. So there appears to be a discontect somewhere.

Second point. Are schools doing enough\whos responsiblity is it for adolescent behaviour? Tough one. I am torn as I see the results of neglectful parenting and at the same time I see families that were large and one child went through a very bad phase of violence and self-destruction but the other siblings were model students and citizens in many ways (not perfect but average or better).

Finally as an aside public schools work. They have flaws like anything else but as an institution my experience is positive.

Peace

Joel

Interesting, my son is in grade 7 now. My wife just went on a school trip for 3 days with the class to a camp setting. She came back saying that there is a real correlation between the kids that have absent parents, ones that travel alot, work too much and the trouble makers at least within the boys.

I agree spending time with your kids is so important. As for the guns issue, if you spend time with your kids in a constructive environment teaching them to hunt, you can foster a well rounded individual. A gun is just a tool.