Sadly yes, But if it takes a holiday to force men to be romantic, then I guess that's the way it has to be. Real romance (not cheesy Valentine's sentiments) is healthy and good for relationships.

In the US it is just a holiday promoted by the greeting card printers, chocolate manufacturers, and greedy women. Traditionally, Valentine's cards should be hand made and delivered anonymously. Although it does have a real history, it is considered to be a "Hallmark Holiday", along with Secretary's Day, Mother's Day, Father's Day, and Sweetest Day.

The Japanese marketers made a double play by inventing "White Day" which is one month after Valentines Day.

I think it takes two to create romance, and that's the way of healthy respect. Greedy women? Ouch! If I said, "Men on the Prowl" I'd get slapped down. I always try to get something special for my fellow, and have never ever asked for diamonds! Chocolate is fine by me as long as it's fair trade. ;)

monasksit; I'm sorry about that, I really wasn't thinking.

I was thinking of one particular woman who decided to stop talking to me for several days because my really nice card and box of really good chocolates was not enough. The next year a really nice card, box of good chocolates, and dozen roses was not enough. I found out that there was a reason that she kept pointing out the jewelry that her friends' husbands had given them.

admin: kindly make your language more inclusive. men and women are not the only lovers. I think a romantic quote from Sappho researched and posted here would serve as adequate apology and ammends.

Yum, fair trade.

Erm, sorry.

The poll question does smack of a heterosexist bias (how I hate to use words like that but it's succinct, unlike this aside), but it has prompted me to ask a question that hopefully won't inflame. Or maybe this is another thread? Either way:

Why is it that some women (I have no idea of the percentage so I'll keep it at the neutral-sounding 'some') expect to be proposed to, and why do they expect an engagement ring?

The answer of 'it's tradition' doesn't wash. I think it's fair and necessary to revist traditions objectively. How would our laws and society in general evolve, otherwise?

I know with many of my straight, married friends that they came by the decision to marry jointly, i.e. no bended knee and profession of love (or maybe they both knelt down) and neither wore an engagement ring.

My partner (female) and I came by our decision mutually and neither of us wore an engagement ring. As for 'tradition' we expected that we were exempt and that people wouldn't make any assumptions given that we were two women, so we were kind of surprised to hear two questions over and over again:

1. Who proposed, and
2. Who wore the dress?

(for the record we both wore dresses and looked smashing)

Any thoughts?

There may well be a heterosexist bias, but given that the vast majority of people in the world are not homosexual, my nose is not out of joint. Having said that, I have gay friends in which one of the partners is the one who does the Valentine's Day thing, sort of m-f, but not quite the same.

I am getting my wife roses and taking her out to dinner. Call me whatever you like. I have been married 30 years (same woman).

Every year in the flower shop, there is a lineup of guys who forgot to reserve roses and have to settle for zinnias or something. It is an annual joke to see who is in the "chump line."

It's much more meaningful to my spouse and I when we celebrate our love other days throughout the year (since V-day just seems forced and obligatory rather than something genuine).

I suppose if this is the only day of the year you can find to be romantic with your partner (or get romancef rom your partner), it serves a purpose. But otherwise, it's just another commercial hallmark holiday we've been suckered into.

From my reading the "hetrosexual basis" is part of the question. Isnt' that what's being asked?

I just heard on TV that men spend more than twice as much money as woman for Valentine's Day. I'm not saying these are all hetrosexual men....I'm just saying...

"chump line"

Ha!

"Zinnias"

Hee!

Congratulations on 30 years! You were married when I was six! Yikes. And for what it's worth I like being taken out to dinner. Or taking someone out. So-called equality in a relationship doesn't preclude one of the partners from doing something nice and unexpected for the other, whatever the time of year.

itdontmatter said: Although it does have a real history, it is considered to be a "Hallmark Holiday",

I work at a card store, and I know just how much of a Hallmark Holiday it is. January 2nd I was working and we put out all the Valentine's day stuff, we have all these "newsletters" about helping "lovers find the perfect gift" and how to get the best out of eager customers. It's all so corporate when you think of Valentine's day in that sense, although I agree that it could be a lovely...sentiment? I can't think of the word- if it's genuine.

So, um...that is a non-inclusive question

Valentines day is a pagan day, follow it not my friends in Christ..............

door57; Why is it any more wrong to give greeting cards on Valentines Day than it is to celebrate Yule (you may call it Christmas), or hunt Easter eggs? All of these celebrations are based upon Pagan traditions or beliefs.

I think Nestingtree makes a great point. After a couple of year together (and 2 months to go until our wedding) my fiance and I were standing in the mall this weekend realizing that we didn't really know why we were coming "Valentine's Day" shopping. Neither one of us really felt that doing so was any different than shopping for, and with, each other every other day. He planned to buy me a very practical new pillow and I had planned on a very nice piece of clothing for him. But how is this any different than the thoughtfulness that is expressed in so many ways, both tangible and intangible (material and non-material) that we exhange every day? We were doing it because we thought we were supposed to (all our friends are doing it, so it must be right, no?) Sometimes the silliness of our follow-the-herd mentality hits me so hard I think I'm going to faint ---right on top of my nice new pillow; a pillow that I bought for myself because I needed it. We've decided to go Dutch to a nice restaurant for supper on Thursday and leave the rest of Valentine's Day to those it means something to.

I think that just like Christmas and Easter, it is what we make of it. If we want to be pagan, we can focus on the solstice aspects and the eggs and lights. If we want to be commercial we focus on the gifts and chocolates and cards. If we want to be Christian, we focus on the spiritual meaning of our stories for that time of year. Same with Valentine's Day. I'll be baking a chocolate brownie tray and icing it with hearts and maybe making heart-shaped pizzas to celebrate the day with my partner and kids. For me it is a celebration that we have made it through another year successfully and that there were more kisses than fights, definately worth recognizing. Make the holiday what you want it to be.

I always wonder why in a straight relationship that it's expected that men are to 'provide the romance'. Should it not be a two way street, that either partner or both can initiate romance?

That's one of the reasons why I asked about men proposing to women versus the other way around or a mutual decision. Why should a man buy a woman an engagement ring? Why should it matter how large it is? When women say to their girlfriends "I'm waiting for the ring" or "he needs to quit dragging his feet and propose" and other women nod in agreement, what's up with that?

I agree that men are supposed to provide romance for woman but in actuality woman should also provide romance. I can't complain my husband had always been very good to me he brings me surprises all the time. All his gifts are very thoughtful he spoils me. I treat him they way he treats me I always do special things for no reason just becuase I love him. He works very hard and deserves a lot. We treat eachother equally as every man and wife should. unfortunalty not all relationships are that way. He has my valentines gift at his moms so that I wouldn't find it. It is actaully something for me and our 8 month old daughter.

I can remember a valentine's day in which I romanced my husband. He isn't the romantic type and after a few years of no real romanceing I wanted a little so I took the reigns. Now don't get me wrong don't we celebrate it in the rememberance of St. Vanentine? You know the guy who married people when it was illegal?

Holidays like Valentines day are about whatever you want to make them about. For me, it's about eating CANDY. For my parents, it's about buying candy for their children and then taking themselves out to lunch.