Thanks to everyone who is participating in the WWG Readers' Groups here on wondercafe! As on previous threads, those reading the book are welcome to critique my summaries of the chapters, and all are welcome to comment.

Let's begin with pages 103 - 119.

In the opening pages of chapter 3, Gretta describes her theological training in the late 80's, and asserts that it provided her with contradictory information.

Gretta Vosper's recently published book, With or Without God, has been the topic of several threads here on wondercafe. Over the last week or so, we have had a good discussion about Chapter 1.

This afternoon, Gretta has popped onto a few of the threads to invite us to some upcoming events. Welcome to the cafe, gretta.

Let's carry on with Chapter 2.

Gretta Vosper's newly released book, With or Without God, opens with three premises:

1. The Christian church has outlived its viability, is scrabbling for relevance, and is experiencing chaos. Conservative and liberal expressions of the faith are equally unsuited for the future. (Authors Sweet and Borg are quickly dismissed.)

2. Wholesale change, involving loss, pain and sacrifice is required. This will be for our own good, and the good of the planet. It will be scary, but satisfying and exciting.

With or Without God by Gretta Vosper has already been the topic of some discussion threads here on wondercafe. Several posters are reading it now, or plan to read it soon. Some will wait to borrow it or check it out from the library.

Let's talk about Spong's Foreword to the book.

Rev Vosper's book is well written and thought provoking, and it should be worthwhile to study it chapter by chapter.

Let's get started with Spong's Foreword. It is only a few pages long, but it might spark some lively discussion.

Am I missing something are is her book flying below the radar. This is the hottest button ever pushed and as Jack Spong says _ " The United Church of Canada will never be the same!" Suggestion - read it and digest it before trying to have a civil discussion with someone who also should have read the book. There is a lot of love in this book if your mind is open. Fun times ahead. George from Peterpatch

With or Without God by Gretta Vosper: Do you plan to read it?

Atheisto's thread, based on a Globe and Mail article about the book, has 400+ posts so far! The discussion (over in R and F) has taken some interesting turns.

If you plan to read WWG, will you buy it soon or wait to get it at the library?

I was one of 10 people from my congregation who attended an excellent talk by Marcus Borg at First St. Andrews United Church in London last night. He discussed the two different visions of Christianity which are currently prevalent in North America. For those of us who had read his book, "The Heart of Christianity", there was not much new, however it was delightful to hear Borg in person. He has a quiet, scholarly way of talking and a devilish sense of humour.

I just finished reading this book, launched April 22nd on Earth Day by author and United Church minister Bruce Sanguin. It's brilliant. Thoughtfully researched and delicately written - a great book for laypeople to study together in a group.
Publisher is CopperHouse, btw.

The toronto Star carried an article on harpur's new book today. Here's the link:

http://www.thestar.com/Life/article/194640

I was interested in his comments because of his use of the word "radical" 8-)
as well as his dismissal of the idea of renewal. The excerpt also includes a quote by Carl Jung about the idea that certitiude is too attractive for many to give up for the risk of spiritual growth (I'm paraphrasing)