Hi kbee

I do feel the same way as you about these things being an injustice.

I too have seen things that I would rather not mention.

But the reality of it is,` there isn't anything we can do about what is to come.

Now I don't want to delve in the negative here but you did bring it up.

But to bring all  peoples together in this situation to fight this monster that we allowed to be unleashed among us, is not something mere man can do.

It is at the global scale now, the western hemisphere has so much as closed the deal for us in this part of the world now.

I'ts just too big for us now.

This is only something God can do, like He's done time & time again. Intercede.

 And this He will do according to what is foretold & written.

Just watch my young friend, watch closely to what is taking place.

Weigh & measure it carefully, & you will indeed see it for what it realy is.

Bolt

see, thats where your wrong.

this is why I am starting this. One person can make a difference.

if I choose to plant a tree, its because I want to. Not because god wills it.

I am not his servant. I will do what I think is best. Im going to make a difference, and one day you'll see. Im doing this to tell everyone who doubted me off.  One day, I will get to say I told you so.

And Im an athiest, so the chances of god comming to help me out with this endeavor are slim. And god had his chance. we cant keep waiting. In a few years, there will be no water, or clean air. Even if he does come down and take his "followers" up to heaven, whats the rest of us to do? Sit here and die ? If it is gods will. That is one sadistic god.

I don't doubt you.

I can see that you are angry, I'm sorry if it is God you are angry at.

The one you should be angry at is satan.

Take care now, I hope the best for you.

Bolt

You need to step back and incorporate some historical perspective into this.  When I was your age, very few people talked about the environment, and the green movement was very tiny indeed.  The Second World War had been over for about 20 years.   All adults at that point knew many, many people who had been killed in the war. The Cold War was scarey and nuclear weapons were on the rise, not the decline. Most of us felt strongly that humanity could be completely wiped out at any minute..  The Civil Rights Movement was struggling and the battle for women's rights was just beginning.  Too be honest, things looked pretty bleak in all sorts of ways for people concerned about society and the world.

An awful lot has been accomplished in my lifetime and because of that I am generally optimistic.  One can choose to curse the dark, or to light a candle.  It seems to me that you are choosing the latter, which is great.  Just remember that when folks my age were your age, we often thought the problems that we faced were just too big, but I have seen amazing changes in my lifetime and I watch the light grow from more and more candles. So don't despair.  Just keep on lighting candles.

Dude.

Im gonna light a freaking FIRE.

Well ....

That may make you as destructive as those you criticize.  I think we need more light than heat.

You may wonder, kbee, why adults don't listen to you and take you seriously.  The reason is that so many of us had exactly the same kind of thoughts as you do now.  I know that you think that you are original and you are the one who is actually going to do something to change everything but if everyone who felt like you do now actually did change everything, everything would have been changed long ago.  Not to say that we haven't made progress and it has been due to people who think like you.  It is just that we traded in 'I'm going to save the whole world and change everything' for 'I am going to have as much impact as I can and change the things I can'.

Nope.  We need at least equal measures of both.  Arguably, more fire at this point in history.

Some of us have.  Some of us have just gotten more ornery with age :)

Nope.  We need light.  The tone in which the fire was offered was angry and destructive.

And what's wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong with getting angry, but it should be resolved, hopefully in a positive light, defore it gets destructive.

Bolt

Usually, sure.  But the occasional bought of table throwing is something that can be enormously useful if done well.

I think that "destructive" is ... well ...destructive.  YMMV but I think we have quite enough destruction going on the world now.  I want to be remembered for building things up rather than tearing things down.

Be careful what you wish for.  Babies and bathwater. 

Sometimes, the old must be demolished in order to have room for the new.  Sometimes, radical action is necessary to catch the attention of a downtrodden and dispirited people.  Yesterday, according the Holy Week chronology, Jesus trashed the temple.  That sounds like the second kind of scenario to me.  If you want an example of the first - there will be no revitalisation of this denomination on a large scale unless we close and get rid of a LOT of buildings.  If we don't knock 'em down first, the people who buy them from us will.

What we have in the world right now is a lot of destruction based on greed for wealth and money, and hatred of the other.  Not the same thing.

Rev, the 60s are over and there was quite enough destruction done back then.  If you want to destroy even more, so be it, but I am not with you on that.

Ah, ever the condescension.  Thanks.

I'm not asking everyone to follow the same path.  We need teachers, we need preachers, we need healers.  And we also need protestors, and, sometimes, sappers.

Demolition, I agree with.  Planned and controlled.  The problem with destructiveness is that it is more about chaos and uncontrolled action than a focused attempt at change.

Aw boo, double post.

(Controlled demolition HERE)

It wasn't condescension so I apologize if it came off as that.  It was an attempt at dry humour.  But I am still not playing on the destruction team.  Not even as a goalie.

Not asking you to.  I'm just asking you to be realistic enough to realise that there needs to be one.

And I am idealistic to think that we have had quite enough destruction.

For all of our lives we have been told what to do and when to do it, as well as being told DON'T do this or that. Hasn't anyone considered the fact that the government is just our appointed PARENT and if we disobey we are punished!!

Haven't you as a youngster done exactly the opposite of what your parents told you? I know I have.

Now that we are older, we still have someone directing our life, and fight as we may, they will always win. Satan has control of them and it is our Belief in God that gets us through. One person CAN make a difference if it done by the direction of God or your higher power, because God is known by many Names.

Well when you put it that way, yes a difference can be made,even by one person no doubt!

I'm sorry for saying otherwise.

But it's through Gods' power & anointing, not just our own.

But can we change the inevitable?  I don't think so.

The fact remains though is prophecy, this age is described as the aproximate time of the dawn of the antichrists.

& the birthpangs are getting closer & closer.

At least this is how I see it

Bolt

kbee," Example: your cellphone will outlive the human race. The plastic cannot break down.

We need change."

Should I assume that you don't own a cellphone?

Make sure what you say matches up with what you do. 

I love the "fire" of youth and the unbridled spontanaity that can lead to change. Sometimes we tend to become more reserved and more cautious with age.

The only thing I woud suggest is maybe you should choose an area to focus on rather than spread yourself too thin. Educate yourself and gain respect from what you know and the solutions you have to offer and if you don't have any, donate to those who do.

i agree with Waterfall on education. Omnidirectional angst never did anyone any good. There's no use firing cynicism every-which-way without doing some reading first. Believe it or not, society is not entirely a faceless, uncaring crowd who lets travesties go on unchecked. People have made advances in all kinds of areas; no need to waste effort starting from the beginning when the groundwork is already built up.

Go out and get a book on feminism, maybe one or two of Chomsky's political books.

One person can incorporate change. One person can bring voice. I can't believe anyone would tell you different. They should be ashamed. There are plenty of examples of singular persons making a difference in this world. If no one stood up, we would all be sheep. I voted this year, my party lost every seat and I, and a half of this country are not represented in government. All the decisions made, I have no voice in. Back in the day, when these fogies were young, people protested for change and now tell you to wait, be patient! I wish there were more young people like you! Now more than ever. Selfishness breeds selfishness. I mean what happend to you hippies, f**k the earth is dying, human rights are being trampelled, people are starving, war is rampid. Civil rights Halllow! The americans protested the war in vietnam, the average age of a soldier in wwII was 24 the average age of a vietnam vet was 19 and they were forced to go to war because of the draft. They were spit on in their own country, the same country that forced them to go. Where was god? The war in Iraq is all about oil, greed and you all know it, yet you do nothing. The UN does nothing in Dafur and millions are dying of genocide, what do you do? You fackers should be encouraging her; God left us here to die, or survive but he is not going to decide, we are. So go eat at macdonald's, drive your big gas chuggin' american made car, all the while cryin' bout the deficit, and continue to tell the youth to wait for god. Oh ya he'll fix it, just like you, when it's too late!

No one (other than that boltupright person) is suggesting that kbee should stop caring. i for one am suggesting that she read a little so that she might learn and get a little focus (as per specific areas to protest). i think that Waterfall was arguing something similar.

Your reacation is exactly the angsty, knee-jerk reaction i was commenting on. Rebellion is good; authority should be questioned constantly. People need to protest. But they need to protest causes, not the world. Simply saying "dude, teh world is in teh shambles. nobody does anything anymore!!1!" isn't helpful. Obviously the war in Iraq is about oil or American imperialism. And it's pretty clear why the UN didn't do anything in Darfur; because the UN is innefectual. If people such as yourself actually did their homework, you'd see that many people know about this. There are numerous groups that protest the inneficacy of the UN. Maybe you should join one of them; there's strength in numbers.

And as for what happened to the hippies? Well they're still around. The anti-globalization (re: american and corporate imperialism) movement is massive. Every time there is some conference or another that represents the innefectual attempts of the developed world to address problems, people protest. In 1999, over 40,000 people protested a meeting of the WTO in Seattle.

Rebellion is useful, but when someone stands up and spouts some diatribe about 'how no one cares anymore', and 'it's up to me alone to make a difference', it undermines the legitmate individuals who actually get organized. It's one thing to express vague, cynical, angst; it's something completely different to actually get out and do something about it.

So do something then, what are you doing? Don't try an preach to me. I just don't want you to discourage someone who wants change. How you think this works? I am doing my part, I am not talking out my ass!

This isn't an argument about what you or i specifically are doing. i'm just trying to address the unhelpful attitude that 'I am the champion of society; it is up to Me to unite the disenfranchised and overturn the oppressors!'

Yes one person can make a difference. But do you know what is more effective? 40,000 people working together. Pick up a book.

Hey clown, you don't know me, so don't judge me a'ight. I can read, dammit I know the ineffectual results of the UN that's why I brought it up. Damn. so angry.

Just following your lead, judging me first.

Oh actually, nevermind. i didn't judge you at all. What are you complaining about? i said specifically, i wasn't talking about you, i was complaining about a general tendency.

well too late i edited my post.

Dammit you piss me off, nice word "tendency" fits perfectly. Now I'm the a**

Hi  kbee and welcom

change is occuring every day and you are right that some things can't wait.  find your calling and start making changes

I don't put them on a pedastal , I think they are as human as the rest of us and just as likely to make mistakes.

every day there will be someone upset with a decision.  But we are not all upset by the same things.  Just because you are disappointed in a decision doesn't mean that it is the wrong decision.  If you contact people they will respond.  However it is unrealsitic to think that a PM or premiere has the time in a day to respond to each person who contacts him or her.  That makes it rreasonable for a staff to do the contacting.

yes you can.  voting to elect someone you wish to see in power is your right.  I doubt that they think they are better.  in my riding, the person I voted for wasn't elected.  The guy who is there still represents me and I call to register my voice on issues that arise.

that can make you passionate and what you need to do is find where you will put your passion.  Health care, social work, mission work, poverty, law, politics.  whatever.  It isn't enough to say that things are bad.  You need to take up the mantle in your corner of the world and work to right the wrongs you see.

 I think you are wrong in your assertion that the PM is not listening to opinions.  This government polls constantly and gets lots of opinions.  That doesn't mean tehy will abide by them and that is their right within our system.  You have a right to voice your dissention and that is a wonderful thing.  Imagine the youth in countries where voicing dissention is a death wish.  He has a different position on issues than you do.  You can voice your opinion in letters, emails, phone calls to your MP as much as you want.

On your own you can do little things like decrease your use of stuff.  Take a look at your home/room.  How much of your stuff is needed as opposed to wanted.  Take it all to the good will and start recycling it to it's next user.

We do need to look at our place in the world and yet it has changed tremendously.  Each of us can do our part and for those who have the calling there is a huge opportunity to work for others.  Volunteer.  Be a reader at your city's poorest elementary school.  Volunteer to work on poverty committees.

change will not occur by ranting against the government without also taking action.  Many people voted for the Conservative government that we have.  They recieved the most votes and will be held in check by the other parties.  It is how it works.  and next election if they once again get the most votes they will be the government again.  If you don't want that to happen then get involved. 

.

Kbee

I totally agree with you, don't let the naysayers get you down.

Oh darling.

If only you knew me.

I am unlike ANYONE you know.

So kbee.  What positive changes are you making in your life and the lives of others?  Let's start there and celebrate where we can...cms

Im am taking action.

Major action.
In two months, I have cut the power in my house by half.

I have voiced my opinion about the genocide in Darfur.
I have planted 4 trees.
I have saved 2 lives.
I have emailed the prime minister everyday, and yet to recieve a response.
I am young, But Im not stupid.
I didnt put this here to rant, I put it here to tell the truth, and show others what is happening. Sometimes life becomes too big to realise that there is so much more out there then our petty issues. If you dont want to be a part of the change, thats fine.
but tearing me down will bring you nowhere.

Those are some good starting points.  Now what are some next steps that you can take to make further progress.  BTW, I wasn't aware that I had torn you down...cms

I don't think you are being torn down.

Voicing disapproval is good, or approval or whatever.

but there are many hands on things you can do.

volunteer, work in a soup kitchen.  Serve out of the cold meals.  Help kids with reading skills.  walk dogs for the humane society.

visit the lonely elderly in nursing homes, take your dog if you have one.

volunteer at a hospital

create petitions to get all offices to turn off lights.

Sell your car

eliminate garbage from your life.

Look at the peace corps as a job.  Or doctors without borders.  Study science and cure cancer.  you are young and can do anything.

i just dont' think the emails to the PMO are the way to make a change.  If you are unhappy with the PM, get involved in a politcal party you do like .  volunteer.  Knock on doors.  Help with publicity.  host discussions at school.  Get involved in student government and raise money for...........

I see people on the street every day who ask for change.  I always give them some and often stop to chat.  Try that for a while.  See what happens.

Why not start with us as practice?  You have a lot of anger and passion, but no direction.  We get that you are angry, but where is your rage being directed?  What needs to be torn down?  What will be put in its place?

i agree with nighthawk, direction is crucial. Anger and outrage are only useful if they're directed in a constructive (or destructive) manner as opposed to general misanthropy.

 as far as i know,

in france (for example), the government is far different. why? because the government is afraid of the people, instead of the people being afraid of the government. how did they get that power? a long history of riots and battles, they stand up for themselves. what do we do?

please correct me if i'm wrong.

You are not wrong.  And they have a much better social system as a result.

as for that france statement, this is true. the only thing is that is france and they are the way they are because of past events. since canada and the US did not go through those past events, really we are quite different from our european homeskillets. naaaaw.. canadians have become some sort of push over or the government has become blind and deaf. 

where i am at in life is a) im a sixteen year old girl. for some reason, i have just heard of all the systems in the world- WTO, World Bank.. gah- and the lovely tag stuck on them called 'Globalization' and how, for some reason, this is a good thing. Well, i do not agree. Im actually a little pissed off. The reason im not changing it is because its truly amazing, regardless of how corrupt it may be. i eat pinapples in winter. I have running water. I can read at night without blinding myself. my sister was in thailand a while back and i got to talk to her via skype. even if resources are running out i think i'll enjoy them while they're there. as crappy as globalization is i think the only reason i like it is because its benefitting me. wow.. that makes me sound like a horrible person

"No one (other than that boltupright person) is suggesting that kbee should stop caring."

and also, kbee, i tihnk i agree with this statement. not trying to put you down or anything, and definitely this is said with a different tone. actually im not sure if it is. i'll let you be the judge of that ^_^

something in me has resigned to whatever destruction the world may come to. be it december 2012, ten years from now, four months from now, i guess i dont really mind. like someone earlier was talking about, i tihnk it was the bolt guy, god has created intentions for the earth and the human race on it. he created us, he knows where we're going. if the world's comin to an end. im just thinkin, "great! if you end this, you'll start something else.." just gotta trust. god gave adam and eve free will. he didnt want to control them. and now, thousands of years later, this is where that free will of ours has put us. so if we created this mess, we should solve it,  right? if we're told to. if god created us knowing we would do this, its in his hands now. if its so in his fancy to pull out something amazing and clear up all the pollution, well great. if its not, great. we need a modern day jesus. the only thing is if jesus comes back, its the end of the world anyway. so basically, im down either way.

Well, just to clarify that I'm not in the buisness of telling people not to care.

I simply stated that the real victory in this situation is not in our own power to accomplish.

It is in God's hands now.

For people to want a new age jesus is definately  in the cards as there will come one who everyone will think is the new jesus but in fact he will do nothing but decieve & take us closer away from the true answer to all our problems.

But God will indeed intercede, He promises this in the new covenant.

Where our hearts are, there we will be also.

Bolt